Keepers and Goners

The Gipper

This all looks about right. In essence, we need new better players at about 50% of the team's positions. Of each unit, only RB and WR seem to be in fairly decent hands.

Probably need:

QB

2 OL

2-3 DBs

2-3 DL and LBs minimally

Mark O

@the-gipper said:

This all looks about right. In essence, we need new better players at about 50% of the team's positions. Of each unit, only RB and WR seem to be in fairly decent hands.

Probably need:

QB

2 OL

2-3 DBs

2-3 DL and LBs minimally

Start at the bottom of that list and work it the other way and I think we will be on our way to a decent team next season.

tiamat63

Barring a move to OT and looking incredible, I just can't see Erving being on this roster.

gftChris

I can him hanging around for a year as a backup, that's about it.

hoorta

@tiamat63 said:
Barring a move to OT and looking incredible, I just can't see Erving being on this roster.

Tour pointed out Erving's footwork is terrible. Too slow for tackle. 95% probability he's another Farmer bust.

alporcini

Thanks gftChris. Exactly what's been on my mind as well.

Lesmerises wrote this very thoughtful piece in the PD about two days ago.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/11/if_the_browns_are_0-9_shouldnt.html#incart_river_index

"...... But, honestly, the team is pretty awful. There are players in orange all over the field that won't be here in a year or two, or least when the final unveiling of this plan (which certainly is not guaranteed to work) comes together.

At this point, and actually from the start, I think a true declaration of not exactly tanking, but prioritizing future building for one season, may have helped the Browns cause. Because clearly there is purpose to this losing, and with the rash of injuries, there are causes for this losing."

Good post man

May good go with you.

The Gipper

Well, lets see right now the Browns may have about the following picks:

#1 overall? Their own pick

#15-20 Eagles pick (hopefully higher)

#33 their own pick in round 2

@#45...the Titans second rounder

#65 their own 3rd rounder

Plus 2 comp picks near the end of round 4. About the #130 range.

So? Who to get with those first 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

How about these guys:

#1: J. Allen DE Alabama, or Jabrill Peppers DB Mich, or Myles Garrett OLB A&M....unless they want Tribisky the NC QB

#15 Teez Tabor CB Florida, Jamal Adams SS LSU, Ruben Foster ILB Alabama

#33: Ryan Ramczyk OT Wisconsin. We have done OK with Wisconsin OTs. Solomon Thomas DE Stanford (our FO likes the smart guys)

#45 Takarrist McKinney OLB UCLA, Adoree Johnson CB USC

#65 Pat Elflein OC Ohio State. Mason Cole OC Michigan, Elijah Qualls DE Washington

Whatever...they ALL would need to contribute.

BrownsnMopar

@the-gipper said:

Well, lets see right now the Browns may have about the following picks:

#1 overall? Their own pick

#15-20 Eagles pick (hopefully higher)

#33 their own pick in round 2

@#45...the Titans second rounder

#65 their own 3rd rounder

Plus 2 comp picks near the end of round 4. About the #130 range.

So? Who to get with those first 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

How about these guys:

#1: J. Allen DE Alabama, or Jabrill Peppers DB Mich, or Myles Garrett OLB A&M....unless they want Tribisky the NC QB

#15 Teez Tabor CB Florida, Jamal Adams SS LSU, Ruben Foster ILB Alabama

#33: Ryan Ramczyk OT Wisconsin. We have done OK with Wisconsin OTs. Solomon Thomas DE Stanford (our FO likes the smart guys)

#45 Takarrist McKinney OLB UCLA, Adoree Johnson CB USC

#65 Pat Elflein OC Ohio State. Mason Cole OC Michigan, Elijah Qualls DE Washington

Whatever...they ALL would need to contribute.

This wouldn't suck!!! This draft is seriously deep in TEs! Maybe the later 2nd or the first 3rd rounder!We need 3 or 4 of the top 10 FA on defense! Spend that cap space!

Alkid3

No QB. Kessler has being doing pretty decent with what we have. Can't wait to see what he can do with some protection.

LondonBrown

The fat lady who has the keys

Mudfly

@gftchris said:

For me, my 2017 depth chart looks like this:

QB - Need/Kessler/McCown/

RB - Crowell/Johnson

TE - Barnidge/Need

WR1 - Pryor

WR2 - Coleman

WR3 - Hawkins/Higgins

LT - JT

LG - Bitonio

C - need

RG - Greco

RT - need

OL - need, need, need

RDE - Bryant/Nassib

LDE - Ogbah/Cooper

RDT - Shelton/Meder

LDT - Need

OLB - kirksey/need

ILB - Collins/Davis

OLB - Orchard/need

CB1 - Haden/need

CB2 - need

CB3 - need/Taylor

FS - need/Poyer

SS - Campbell/Kindred

My list......based on a 4-3......and lets assume there are several starters who could/should be upgraded.......

So....my count has us needing a minimum of 8 "starter quality or BETTER" players.....plus another 6-8 contributors......so, just 16 players away!!!!!

Zombo

@gftchris said:

To be revisited in January, for sure, but who on the roster do you keep as a starter for next year, who do you keep as a backup for next year, and who just gets cut?

For me, my 2017 depth chart looks like this:

QB - Kessler/McCown/???

RB - Crowell/Johnson

TE - Barnidge/???

WR1 - Pryor/???

WR2 - Coleman/???

WR3 - Hawkins/Higgins

LT - JT

LG - Bitonio

C - ???

RG - Greco

RT - Pasztor

OL - Erving - center and tackle

OL - Drango - 'swing' guard

OL - Coleman - 'swing' tackle

NT - Shelton/Meder

RDE - Bryant/Nassib

LDE - ???/Cooper

OLB - Ogbah/???

ILB - Kirksey/Davis

ILB - Collins/???

OLB - ???/Schobert

CB1 - Haden/???

CB2 - ???/???

CB3 - Taylor/???

FS - ???/???

SS - Campbell/Kindred

Special teams - fine as it is for the kicking/punting, need more in the return game though.

So for me we need a starter at:

Center

Defensive end

Edge rusher

Corner

Free safety

Five starters. Four top-40 draft picks, one FA guy (preferably a free safety IMO). Doable.

We need backups at:

TE - a young guy to groom behind Barnidge

WR - this kind of depends on Payton and whether Louis can catch a cold.

Edge Rusher - yeah, we don't have much going on here. Ogbah looks solid, but outside of that not much to write home about.

Corner x3 - maybe the body calhoune can be a backup nickel? But apart from that, the unit needs a complete overhaul.

Free safety - I'm not sold on Jordan Poyer, if he were under contract then fine but we can probably find a suitable replacement easily enough.

QB3 - Maybe Hogan? Sure. Or Bo Callahan. Sure. Some guy.

Seven backups. Plenty of draft picks to go after that, and maybe a couple of generic FA guys.

So how far are we from being relevant? Not that far. Assume a QB - Kessler gets the start for 2017 sesaon for now - and then we're about 5 starters (mostly in the secondary) away from being a good team in 2017, with plenty of replacement level guys already on the roster.

Cut McCown. Like, this week. We can do better than Pastor. Collins at OLB, Ogbah at DE. All new secondary other than Joe, who we are tied to for another year.

Z

hoorta

@mudfly said:

@gftchris said:

For me, my 2017 depth chart looks like this:

QB - Need/Kessler/McCown/

RB - Crowell/Johnson

TE - Barnidge/Need

WR1 - Pryor

WR2 - Coleman

WR3 - Hawkins/Higgins

LT - JT

LG - Bitonio

C - need

RG - Greco

RT - need

OL - need, need, need

RDE - Bryant/Nassib

LDE - Ogbah/Cooper

RDT - Shelton/Meder

LDT - Need

OLB - kirksey/need

ILB - Collins/Davis

OLB - Orchard/need

CB1 - Haden/need

CB2 - need

CB3 - need/Taylor

FS - need/Poyer

SS - Campbell/Kindred

My list......based on a 4-3......and lets assume there are several starters who could/should be upgraded.......

So....my count has us needing a minimum of 8 "starter quality or BETTER" players.....plus another 6-8 contributors......so, just 16 players away!!!!!

Not much to argue about there Mud. Get enough starter quality players next year to actually win a couple games.

medicineman

I think Baby Hawk will be gone. Didn't have a single catch last week and is only getting an average 2 catches per game. For a well seasoned NFL vet?? GONE I like him but we need guys to produce not be another Bowe, (I mean he is on the field but that is all where Bowe was counting his money on the bench all season long.)

TexasAg1969

So Mud from your list who do you target with out first 4 picks IF we don't trade them away for 4 2nd level safeties?

BTW-interesting article this a.m. on who is on the hot seat within the Browns these last 6 games, i.e. Kessler, Horton, Cam, RGIII and Sashi.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/11/5_cleveland_browns_with_the_mo_2.html

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:
So Mud from your list who do you target with out first 4 picks

Ok......for starters and my main beef from this past off season is that I think we needed to "sign" a few FA's.....last season I saw OLB and OL as our primary needs and it was painfully obvious....yet, we did nothing of substance to address it......and, this year, it is clear that we still have MAJOR issues there.....

Signing Collins was a nice add....( a bit late tho).....But, we need to add a few more talented players like him.....

So.....during free agency.....Id sign a few key players....and would prefer they use the opportunity to add a couple OL and maybe a CB or FS to the mix.....we need several DB's and several OL, and I dont think we'll get em ALL in the draft....unless we burn our whole draft trying to fix one or two positions.....(4 WR's anyone???).....

With our early picks, Id go after some of the top D.....PIck #1 should land us Garrett, Peppers or Allen......Id also like to add another D player with pick 2......just take the next best OLB - DB on the board......and, if possible, use some of those middling picks to move up and grab another 1st/2nd round talent........on D, of course...

So.....in my world....following free agency and the first few rounds...we have signed and/or drafted...

1) 2 veterans to help on the OL, as starters and/or depth

2) 1 - 2 veteran DB's....as starters and/or depth

3) a blue chip DL and OLB draftee

4) a blue chip CB and FS

5) and draft another QB project.....mid to late.....

So.....my main key is that Shashi realizes he can "sign" players too(FA last year was a complete fail)......and is smart enough to tap some veteran talent(and leadership) that will fill a few voids, while he continues to build with the draft,,,,,,

And.....another concern....is what will we do with another 14 rookies????!!!????......seriously, where will they play?......

So, unless we plan to have another complete debacle with the youth brigade, lets trade UP and diminish the # of picks, whilst increasing the talent per pick.....

TexasAg1969

@mudfly said:

Ok......for starters and my main beef from this past off season is that I think we needed to "sign" a few FA's.....last season I saw OLB and OL as our primary needs and it was painfully obvious....yet, we did nothing of substance to address it......and, this year, it is clear that we still have MAJOR issues there.....

Signing Collins was a nice add....( a bit late tho).....But, we need to add a few more talented players like him.....

So.....during free agency.....Id sign a few key players....and would prefer they use the opportunity to add a couple OL and maybe a CB or FS to the mix.....we need several DB's and several OL, and I dont think we'll get em ALL in the draft....unless we burn our whole draft trying to fix one or two positions.....(4 WR's anyone???).....

With our early picks, Id go after some of the top D.....PIck #1 should land us Garrett, Peppers or Allen......Id also like to add another D player with pick 2......just take the next best OLB - DB on the board......and, if possible, use some of those middling picks to move up and grab another 1st/2nd round talent........on D, of course...

So.....in my world....following free agency and the first few rounds...we have signed and/or drafted...

1) 2 veterans to help on the OL, as starters and/or depth

2) 1 - 2 veteran DB's....as starters and/or depth

3) a blue chip DL and OLB draftee

4) a blue chip CB and FS

5) and draft another QB project.....mid to late.....

So.....my main key is that Shashi realizes he can "sign" players too(FA last year was a complete fail)......and is smart enough to tap some veteran talent(and leadership) that will fill a few voids, while he continues to build with the draft,,,,,,

And.....another concern....is what will we do with another 14 rookies????!!!????......seriously, where will they play?......

So, unless we plan to have another complete debacle with the youth brigade, lets trade UP and diminish the # of picks, whilst increasing the talent per pick.....

Excellent plan-forward to Farmer II.

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:

Excellent plan-forward to Farmer II.

No need.....I am now aware that if I say it enough times, Jimmah will do it.....

ahitz3

Draft a shitload of OL and DL. The game is won in the trenches. Have the players beat the piss out of each other all preseason and cut the soft ones. We don't need another injury prone team. If our qb had time to stay in pocket and rb had more holes we would be fine. If our dl could get to the fucking qb or at least break down the line so the lbs can we will be fine.

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

@gftchris said:

For me, my 2017 depth chart looks like this:

QB - Need/Kessler/McCown/

RB - Crowell/Johnson

TE - Barnidge/Need

WR1 - Pryor

WR2 - Coleman

WR3 - Hawkins/Higgins

LT - JT

LG - Bitonio

C - need

RG - Greco

RT - need

OL - need, need, need

RDE - Bryant/Nassib

LDE - Ogbah/Cooper

RDT - Shelton/Meder

LDT - Need

OLB - kirksey/need

ILB - Collins/Davis

OLB - Orchard/need

CB1 - Haden/need

CB2 - need

CB3 - need/Taylor

FS - need/Poyer

SS - Campbell/Kindred

My list......based on a 4-3......and lets assume there are several starters who could/should be upgraded.......

So....my count has us needing a minimum of 8 "starter quality or BETTER" players.....plus another 6-8 contributors......so, just 16 players away!!!!!

Could Schobert at least serve as a backup?