OK It's Official....
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Yep. Even aside from the race thing, commentators around the country say "this team's record isn't Hue's fault. There's no talent." I guarantee that's how coaches around the country see it too. You think they're gonna jump on this job if we fire Hue? Don't be Retarded.
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Just me waiting for the team to show progress
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
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with the secondary being relatively worthless...
what do those that are po'd expect?
They were winning a low scoring game in the first half again.
Then opposing offenses say "dammit, let's just start throwing the ball and run the score up".
Might draft 3 db's in the upcoming draft.
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I hate to say this but the only glimmer of respect the leauge has for us is the Jackson Hiring. Players like Pryor will shut down and try to work their way out of Cleveland if we fire Hue. I know what i'm saying, that the black players main consideration for playing for the Browns is a black head coach. In a perfect world that wouldn't happen but Cleveland has nothing else. Nobody wants to play nor coach the Browns. Soemthing else you guys shoudl probalby get used to is the only reason hue came here anyway was because there was some iron clad guarantees he woudlnt' be tossed after 1 year and probably not for 2-3 eithers. Nobody as highly touted as Hue Jackson was is coming to the Browns. We fire Hue and it tells the league we were just funnin last year it's right back to old Brownies....just start pulling coaches off the st at that point.
I hate to say this but the only glimmer of respect the leauge has for us is the Jackson Hiring. Players like Pryor will shut down and try to work their way out of Cleveland if we fire Hue. I know what i'm saying, that the black players main consideration for playing for the Browns is a black head coach. In a perfect world that wouldn't happen but Cleveland has nothing else. Nobody wants to play nor coach the Browns. Soemthing else you guys shoudl probalby get used to is the only reason hue came here anyway was because there was some iron clad guarantees he woudlnt' be tossed after 1 year and probably not for 2-3 eithers. Nobody as highly touted as Hue Jackson was is coming to the Browns. We fire Hue and it tells the league we were just funnin last year it's right back to old Brownies....just start pulling coaches off the st at that point.
Agree on that.
This is hard to watch, but I feel it's going to be better next season. No sense bailing on our team folks.
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
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So which remaining opponent gives the best shot at avoiding 0-16?
Bills? Chargers?
So which remaining opponent gives the best shot at avoiding 0-16?
Bills? Chargers?
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Maybe they are working on the mannequin challenge instead of football.
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
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I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
I think good coaching makes mediocre talent better. When you have bad coaching and questionable talent you have the Cleveland Browns defense. I guarandamntee you that if Dick LeBeau or Bill Belichick were our DC things would not look like this.
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I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
Jim O'neil is on the 49ers i believe and they may be the only team in the nfl with a defense worse than ours or equal.
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
True OBF- but this is disappointing. If Parkay hadn't melted in the Miami heat, at least we'd have a win to hang our hats on. Going back to last year, we're at 13 losses in a row and counting. If we hadn't beaten the 49ers, Tampa's all time futility record would be in reach this year. Now that's what I'd call REALLY bad.
Agree on that.
This is hard to watch, but I feel it's going to be better next season. No sense bailing on our team folks.
Oh, I"m not bailing- my feelings have gone from apathy, to comic relief, to anger. The current team is a national joke- and I'm not happy about it.
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It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
I think good coaching makes mediocre talent better. When you have bad coaching and questionable talent you have the Cleveland Browns defense. I guarandamntee you that if Dick LeBeau or Bill Belichick were our DC things would not look like this.
I think good coaching makes mediocre talent better. When you have bad coaching and questionable talent you have the Cleveland Browns defense. I guarandamntee you that if Dick LeBeau or Bill Belichick were our DC things would not look like this.
As I said in my OP, how many times did The Ravens have to run that slant over the middle for Horton to figure out what he was doing wasn't working? Heck, try for holding or interference, don't just let them run free right over the middle.
It's either that or the Browns have the worst secondary in recent NFL history. The coverage was virtually nonexistent.
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
It also goes to players. The coaches can't go out and do the tackling. Was it really O'Neils fault last year or he didn't have enough talent on defense? Of course we were paying for a defense that didn't perform with having the highest paid defense in the NFL at the time.
Two fer two... We old guys need to stick together somewhere.
Even on the D-side I don't think Horton is responsible... accountable, but not responsible. The difference I see between he and O'neil/Pettine is that Ray is to my eye adapting better to the talent available. Not a high bar and certainly not transferring to the bottom line, but I still see it.
The assistant staff? Different story and a case for change I made a few days ago. It is on position coaches to make sure position players are ready to play. If that they are not is clear to us, then it is certainly clear to Horton.
Tackling? Every player we put on the field knows how to "tackle". Some may be more interested in doing it than others, but even great Defenders have not liked to tackle, e.g., Deion Sanders. And even those that love contact the most can't tackle if they are not blessed with the innate tools to consistently get in position to tackle. And even those that love it and have the tools, occasionally miss one. Sometimes this is attributable to their individual failure, but often it can be due to the failure of other, less gifted teammates around them to fill their role in a given set.
Secondary wise... certainly there was a fall off from Gipson to Poyer, but the loss of Poyer deepened the Safety deficit even further. Slot DB? We don't seem to have found a replacement for our replacement for Skrine. But on the bright side (if there is one) Haden has somewhat returned to form and in doing so has solidified Williams #2 role and his play has improved... last week's "banjo" miscommunication notwithstanding.
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FYI, I heard a report from a guy from Pro Football Focus that except for Alex Mack..who is doing very well...pro bowl level, all the guys that the Browns let go are really not grading out much better if at all than the guys that we have hear now:
Kruger
The Schwartz
Gipson
Whitner
Dansby
Travis Benjamin.
and others....are not grading out very well at all.
Perhaps one of you with a PFF account can verify that.
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well who's fault that there is no talent? someone has to take a hit for that. especially with the number of picks we had. not saying fire anyone but maybe an admission of suckle at your new job and promising to do better next year.
except all we get is crickets…………… and still no talent.
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well who's fault that there is no talent? someone has to take a hit for that. especially with the number of picks we had. not saying fire anyone but maybe an admission of suckle at your new job and promising to do better next year.
except all we get is crickets…………… and still no talent.
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FYI, I heard a report from a guy from Pro Football Focus that except for Alex Mack..who is doing very well...pro bowl level, all the guys that the Browns let go are really not grading out much better if at all than the guys that we have hear now:
Kruger
The Schwartz
Gipson
Whitner
Dansby
Travis Benjamin.
and others....are not grading out very well at all.
Perhaps one of you with a PFF account can verify that.
FYI, I heard a report from a guy from Pro Football Focus that except for Alex Mack..who is doing very well...pro bowl level, all the guys that the Browns let go are really not grading out much better if at all than the guys that we have hear now:
Kruger
The Schwartz
Gipson
Whitner
Dansby
Travis Benjamin.
and others....are not grading out very well at all.
Perhaps one of you with a PFF account can verify that.
Niiiiiice!
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We knew this would be a long season with the house cleaning. They aren't disappointing but there is no doubt in my mind it is a lack of talent and not coaching. We are not going to bring in any new HC and turn this team around until we get more talent.
I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
I think the defense has a serious coaching issue. Faulty coverage, poor tackling goes a lot to coaching. Next year we need a new DC....no doubt.
but it's gonna take Horton a couple years to weed out the guys that don't wanna ball from the ones that listen to what he's telling them. I'm not the biggest fan of Horton but any defense can be competent given the time to roost. Can Horton build a legendary defense? I dunno, maybe not. Maybe at some point when we do have the right pieces someone else needs to come in and get them over.
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Once again, this is year 1 of a complete rebuild from FO to waterboy, with the owner stating - again - that we build through draft (... no high priced free agents...)
What were you expecting?
I will admit, their early season close games - even late game leads - led me to believe they would have squeaked out a win or two by now, but this was always a losing year.
it's the price you pay for the life you choose.
I can't understand anyone who expected more than this given those parameters - let alone anyone expecting a 'winning' - dare I say Super Bowl - team in less than a single year.
Instant gratification was never an option.
Once again, this is year 1 of a complete rebuild from FO to waterboy, with the owner stating - again - that we build through draft (... no high priced free agents...)
What were you expecting?
I will admit, their early season close games - even late game leads - led me to believe they would have squeaked out a win or two by now, but this was always a losing year.
it's the price you pay for the life you choose.
I can't understand anyone who expected more than this given those parameters - let alone anyone expecting a 'winning' - dare I say Super Bowl - team in less than a single year.
Instant gratification was never an option.
Agree wholeheartedly. (And apologize if I'm restating what has already been said)
Jimmy Johnson's first season as coach, the 89 Cowboys went 1–15. Johnson had an ability to find talent in the draft, make savvy trades (Herschel Walker), and by signing quality players as free agents.
Sign Collins. Sign Pryor. In the last two week Haden has reminded, in flashes, what elite looks like. So does JT. Shelton is playing big. So is Kirksey. Ogbah has shown potential. So has Corey Coleman. And Nassib. I like Duke. The Crow.
We have six current starters who I doubt will be on our roster next year... Ask me who in January... Let's just keeping seeing who are our keepers. And whom we need to replace.
Me? I like Hue. But he's a work in progress as well. He is an innovative offensive mind. If McKown had works out, it's a great chess move. We win one game; developed a taste for winning. He didn't so Hue gets crack backed. But at least he tried something different. Gotta applaud that. Biggest complaint with his coaching is second half adjustments. For the most part this season, we've been in games going into the half. Other teams adjust and eat our lunch, because we come out doing the same old thing we did in the first half. Gotta change it up. Almost as if you have two different game plans. One for each half of the battle. Let the opposing team spend half time trying to figure out what we're coming out and doing. Not just being complacent, especially after they know or scheme.
Is it Hue? Is it Horton? Tour said it right. Horton is not responsible... accountable, but not responsible. What I would like to see is an innovator on the defensive side of the ball. That Ravens D coach did a heck of a job with his unit. And he's straight out of college. Then again, he has Suggs, who I believe was the biggest defensive presence on both teams. But I liked what I saw from Collins. And there are two studs coming out in the draft.
If we play it smart, both on the field and in the front office, we're be two years away from contending. As someone pointed out, the Raiders are in year three.
I'm excited by what the future brings.
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