If this is true (just sell the team Jimmy)
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Tension mounting in CLE....Really?....when did ja notice that?.......2013? 14? 15?.....just now?
Haslams interfering.............Really?....when did ja notice that?.......2013? 14? 15?.....just now?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tension-mounting-in-cleveland-where-yet-more-change-is-feared/
Jason LaCanforna??....dude makes a living beating up the Browns with his "sources".......and is almost ALWAYS wrong.....(always)
There are only 2 ways to look at this season....either its a huge success or its a huge failure....
Camp #1 believes this losing is the plan. We intentionally dumped our talent and are intentionally losing so we can draft high. If this is the case, then our FO has succeeded and the owner should be elated that the FO was so successful in dismantling the team and achieving their goal of the top draft pick. A+ for a pass
Camp #2 believes we really wanted win and the FO believed the team would be as good or better(than 2015) with the moves we made and the players & coaches we added. And that there would be measurable progress and growth throughout this season. It was to be a lateral or slightly improved record(Shashi saying 4-5 wins would be a disappointment) and there would be notable rookies showing progress. If THIS was the plan, then our FO has not succeeded and the owner should be disappointed that his new FO & coaching staff have missed their target. F for the fail.
So, it really depends on which camp Jimmah is in.....and none of us know that.....
I will say that both Sashi AND Hue have said repeatedly that they are in camp #2......
There are only 2 ways to look at this season....either its a huge success or its a huge failure....
Camp #1 believes this losing is the plan. We intentionally dumped our talent and are intentionally losing so we can draft high. If this is the case, then our FO has succeeded and the owner should be elated that the FO was so successful in dismantling the team and achieving their goal of the top draft pick. A+ for a pass
Camp #2 believes we really wanted win and the FO believed the team would be as good or better(than 2015) with the moves we made and the players & coaches we added. And that there would be measurable progress and growth throughout this season. It was to be a lateral or slightly improved record(Shashi saying 4-5 wins would be a disappointment) and there would be notable rookies showing progress. If THIS was the plan, then our FO has not succeeded and the owner should be disappointed that his new FO & coaching staff have missed their target. F for the fail.
So, it really depends on which camp Jimmah is in.....and none of us know that.....
I will say that both Sashi AND Hue have said repeatedly that they are in camp #2......
Camp #3 ... we are trying our best to win every game, but it is all about the future.
Zombo
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Tour, please don't discount haslam intervention. If anything it's under reported.
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There are only 2 ways to look at this season....either its a huge success or its a huge failure....
Camp #1 believes this losing is the plan. We intentionally dumped our talent and are intentionally losing so we can draft high. If this is the case, then our FO has succeeded and the owner should be elated that the FO was so successful in dismantling the team and achieving their goal of the top draft pick. A+ for a pass
Camp #2 believes we really wanted win and the FO believed the team would be as good or better(than 2015) with the moves we made and the players & coaches we added. And that there would be measurable progress and growth throughout this season. It was to be a lateral or slightly improved record(Shashi saying 4-5 wins would be a disappointment) and there would be notable rookies showing progress. If THIS was the plan, then our FO has not succeeded and the owner should be disappointed that his new FO & coaching staff have missed their target. F for the fail.
So, it really depends on which camp Jimmah is in.....and none of us know that.....
I will say that both Sashi AND Hue have said repeatedly that they are in camp #2......
Camp #3 ... we are trying our best to win every game, but it is all about the future.
Zombo
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Tour, please don't discount haslam intervention. If anything it's under reported.
Tour, please don't discount haslam intervention. If anything it's under reported.
I did not realize you work in the Browns FO...
Without endangering your livelihood can you comment further? Is Jimmah's meddling under-reported because it is in areas of no concern?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Gotta say...how can you be an owner and not meddle?.......that would make you another Lerner......
Ive called Jimmah a meddler, but mostly because I believe he's responsible for the Manziel fiasco...
But my main beef with him isnt meddling.....it's his impatience, snap decision making and belief that if he demands winning, he will get it.....I also dont think he makes good choices when selecting his people....and often listens to the wrong ones....
Honestly have not seen him assemble a quality FO yet......
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Zombo said:
... we are trying our best to win every game, but it is all about the future.
Zombo
Right....thats camp #2....(except w/o the visible progress part)....(which is in the future somewhere?)...(next year?)
Right....thats camp #2....(except w/o the visible progress part)....(which is in the future somewhere?)...(next year?)
Ya, I would think so.
You replace Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin, and Gipson with rookies (or worse, in Mack's case) you're on your third QB (another rookie) by week 3, you've had more of your fair share of injuries (remember that Bitonio guy?) and "visible progress" is a tough call.
Visible progress next year ... this year, drink heavily. It's working for me.
Zombo
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Well like I said I don't know if it's true. I do wish he would sell to a better owner though.
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Right....thats camp #2....(except w/o the visible progress part)....(which is in the future somewhere?)...(next year?)
Ya, I would think so.
You replace Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin, and Gipson with rookies (or worse, in Mack's case) you're on your third QB (another rookie) by week 3, you've had more of your fair share of injuries (remember that Bitonio guy?) and "visible progress" is a tough call.
Visible progress next year ... this year, drink heavily. It's working for me.
Zombo
So, is it the "plan" or an excuse?...lets have a fair look at this.....
Zombo said:
Ya, I would think so.
You replace Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin, and Gipson with rookies (or worse, in Mack's case)
Ah....but Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin and Gipson were ALL replaced with last years 2nd stringers.....not one rookie.....Pazstor(UDFA), Erving, Pryor(UDFA) and Poyer(UDFA) were all here and we KNEW what they could do......FO failed miserably in not signing OL help.....period
you're on your third QB (another rookie) by week 3,
See above.....maybe had the FO shored up the line, we wouldnt break a QB per week.....probably woulda won a few too
you've had more of your fair share of injuries (remember that Bitonio guy?)
Pretty much the annual excuse....for every team......last year we went through our entire secondary and a few QB's.....year before it was Mack going down, along with every DL we had.....etc.....injuries happen and reveal depth...we have injuries, but no depth....
and "visible progress" is a tough call.
Not really....some players get better....others dont. Even if the team bites, we should be able to see who can play and who cant.....Ogbah's getting better....Nassib aint.....Kessler has shown growth....Kindred hasnt......Devalve just caught a TD.....Higgins and Payton are invisible.....etc etc etc
And....as whole.....these guys are not showing much advancement or growth.....so to expect a jump in performance next year is unrealistic....just like it was when folks were expecting a jump from pre season to regular season....or from mid season on....
Visible progress next year ...
Ok...so, after we draft another 14 rookies, you mean I wont have to watch this mess again and hear how we're playing all rookies? Cause Im curious how we are going to integrate so much additional youth into this team....and still show progress(or "start" to show progress)
this year, drink heavily.
I am. Thats why I bitch so much. Im a mean drunk.
Zombo
Mud
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what and where is camp #4? the one where you wake up on sunday (or thursday or monday) knowing your team is going to play and you just start cursing at the world? sun is shining, birds are chirping, people are gathering their families for some fall activity with father's dressed in their football gear anticipating a great day and you're walking your dog with browns garb on getting looks, laughs and shrugs as if you've already died? the stay up all night trying to figure out the concept of how a franchise can go in such a rut for so many years, then realizing there are people getting paid tons of money that are supposedly smarter than you who can't figure out the same problem to wake up to another day of being a castaway on an island of losing amongst an ocean of competitive fun-loving football fans?
drink? uh, this team has me walking like i'm a loopy hunchback, looking like the guy that people grab their kids to walk around because he's yelling at the trees for dumping leaves on the ground.
but all is well NOW knowing that the king of brown's fans has given us a timetable of when HE expects improvement. so next year no improvement we can all call for hue, sash and co's head?
GOT IT. 365 days and counting down. thanks Z for clearing it up!
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what and where is camp #4? the one where you wake up on sunday (or thursday or monday) knowing your team is going to play and you just start cursing at the world? sun is shining, birds are chirping, people are gathering their families for some fall activity with father's dressed in their football gear anticipating a great day and you're walking your dog with browns garb on getting looks, laughs and shrugs as if you've already died? the stay up all night trying to figure out the concept of how a franchise can go in such a rut for so many years, then realizing there are people getting paid tons of money that are supposedly smarter than you who can't figure out the same problem to wake up to another day of being a castaway on an island of losing amongst an ocean of competitive fun-loving football fans?
drink? uh, this team has me walking like i'm a loopy hunchback, looking like the guy that people grab their kids to walk around because he's yelling at the trees for dumping leaves on the ground.
but all is well NOW knowing that the king of brown's fans has given us a timetable of when HE expects improvement. so next year no improvement we can all call for hue, sash and co's head?
GOT IT. 365 days and counting down. thanks Z for clearing it up!
drink? uh, this team has me walking like i'm a loopy hunchback, looking like the guy that people grab their kids to walk around because he's yelling at the trees for dumping leaves on the ground
Not sure what's funnier, the image I came up with in my mind, or the one helped by your avatar..... Both are equally funny - in a dead puppy stepped on by a drunk clown sort of way.
I know I'll sound like a pussy, but my sig is becoming more and more real for me every game.
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drink? uh, this team has me walking like i'm a loopy hunchback, looking like the guy that people grab their kids to walk around because he's yelling at the trees for dumping leaves on the ground
Not sure what's funnier, the image I came up with in my mind, or the one helped by your avatar..... Both are equally funny - in a dead puppy stepped on by a drunk clown sort of way.
I know I'll sound like a pussy, but my sig is becoming more and more real for me every game.
Not sure what's funnier, the image I came up with in my mind, or the one helped by your avatar..... Both are equally funny - in a dead puppy stepped on by a drunk clown sort of way.
I know I'll sound like a pussy, but my sig is becoming more and more real for me every game.
D, just blowin wind man. trying to find a something funny in a pile of broken glass. sticking with Zs plan though will have 1/2 of us on life support in an oxygen tent and that'd suck considering i need a smoke every time i see some bonehead play by the browns. i think i'm up to 3 packs on sunday. and i don't smoke.
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oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
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LaCanforna is a hack and if I recall, has a friendship with LOLbardi. Pay that clown no attention.
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oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
That all sounds good, but we haven't even figured out how to start the car to go pick up the building permit.
I'm not in the fire Hue camp - although he lost a lot of my support with his benching of Cody, but can you honestly, and I do mean honestly say that the 14 games played this year, both pre and regular season, makes you think that we are on the right track? If yes, shit, I'd hate to see us on the wrong track.
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people had reservations about Horton I'm shocked. looking more and more like a choice between keeping the coaches and keeping the FO. Honestly I'm not sure which one i would keep if i were in jimmys spot. Probably the FO because they are more difficult to replace than coaches but only marginally and because of silly regulations.
my best guess is Sashi and Ray Horton but everything else remaining intact mostly.
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It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
That all sounds good, but we haven't even figured out how to start the car to go pick up the building permit.
I'm not in the fire Hue camp - although he lost a lot of my support with his benching of Cody, but can you honestly, and I do mean honestly say that the 14 games played this year, both pre and regular season, makes you think that we are on the right track? If yes, shit, I'd hate to see us on the wrong track.
That all sounds good, but we haven't even figured out how to start the car to go pick up the building permit.
I'm not in the fire Hue camp - although he lost a lot of my support with his benching of Cody, but can you honestly, and I do mean honestly say that the 14 games played this year, both pre and regular season, makes you think that we are on the right track? If yes, shit, I'd hate to see us on the wrong track.
If it were all about winning the first year - you'd keep what we had, sign some more FA's who only want to get more money,
keep some guys on the roster who don't care about trying to be champions, go 6-10, FA's then leave, draft star college
players only to have them not give a crap, that is the same old, same old of years previous.
Never has worked, except one freak year, and then it fell back to crap again.
It....does.....not......work. Richardson, Gordon, Manziel, Gilbert, and FA's in the past who wanted more money, but
didn't care to try to win...
nah. I see the Browns starting over, doing it the right way to finally FIX the mediocre mess once and for all.
In the past, we saw an offense that couldn't but rarely gain one yard for a first down, and a defense that got stampeded
on the ground from the beginning of a game to the end, .. embarrassed badly the whole game.
Now, you see the players all in, playing really tough, loving their situation, their lockerroom, their coaches, they
can move the ball against any other defense, to varying degrees, and a defense front seven that is getting meaner
and tougher to run on as the season progresses. Just one goal line stand this year has been a huge improvement.
with no injuries, this team would have won a few games right there.
Think of it this way - you get hopelessly lost in a forest... and you finally figure out how to have a chance
to find the trail again. You start down the trail, you are good. THINGS ARE LOOKING UP !
It doesn't no good to wail, bitch and moan because you aren't out of the woods yet. You are on the right trail,
and you will get there. You have a creek for water, fire to boil it, and berries and trail mix. You just haven't reached
your goal of getting out of the woods.
I just don't see geting outraged because you are still in the woods and not home eating supper yet.
On the right track is good. Hopelessly lost - not good. You are still in the woods in both scenarios.
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Here it is again, this irrational belief from some browns fans that stability is overrated...fire the coaches, then tear up the fo....now it's on to the owner must sell. As if there's some old gandalf wizard queer who's just dying to buy the Cleveland fucking browns. And he like does magic so the browns will immediately be SB contenders.
Please for the love of god it would be nice not to go 108 years like the cubs so can we pls let this process work even if it takes 8-10 years to get to the SB? Cause in the interim we're gonna enjoy some good competitive football
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Cause right now we are exactly what the other three north teams want, an easy divisional out
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oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
Yeah Cal- right now, we're sitting in that unfinished house with no roof, and it's raining pretty hard. I forgot to bring an umbrella. Playing hard, sure they all play as hard as they can, but most of those guys aren't very good. With Bitonio out the o-line is a sieve. Erving is another first round bust, and overall on a talent level, there are more holes on this team than swiss cheese. It's going to take more than a stellar 2017 draft to fix this mess.
Steelers? Kessler is no Bradshaw, and Shelton is no Mean Joe Greene. Sure, all the Browns have to do in the next four years is draft a succession of HOFers with their picks, like Harris, Lambert, Ham, Stallworth, Swann, Webster and a few others. SB, here we come. Too bad some of us might be dead by then. -
Right....thats camp #2....(except w/o the visible progress part)....(which is in the future somewhere?)...(next year?)
Ya, I would think so.
You replace Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin, and Gipson with rookies (or worse, in Mack's case) you're on your third QB (another rookie) by week 3, you've had more of your fair share of injuries (remember that Bitonio guy?) and "visible progress" is a tough call.
Visible progress next year ... this year, drink heavily. It's working for me.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Visible progress next year ... this year, drink heavily. It's working for me.
To paraphrase The Who... "Meet the new plan... same as the old plan."
So, is it the "plan" or an excuse?...lets have a fair look at this.....
injuries happen and reveal depth...we have injuries, but no depth....
As we did not last year... or the year before that... or...
In the past we had a stronger nucleus and tried to add depth. We didn't. Some was personnel selection, but the rest can be attributed to opportunity limits, i.e., lack of reps, lack of PT. Hard to develop without them.
Now we are playing our potential depth and can pinpoint where upgrade is needed. I feel I can see this most clearly in the OL, but also see it elsewhere.
Best example? Paz may never be RT starter quality, but his improvement there plus his showing at OG earlier already combine to give him depth value.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder. NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built correctly - we're golden.
The house worked better than the trail, but pretty much with you, cal... AKA virgin territory...
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