Draft Talk
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I like Mitch, but keeping it real we're more than just a QB away from being a competitive team.
As Mud said, there isn't a spot on this team that could't stand an upgrade.
LT, LG, WR1, WR2, DT, ROLB, ILB.
There's 7.
I'd also venture to say that we can probably get along with our current CB1, LE, TE, RB, RG, other ILB, and LOLB.
Now that's 14.
There are positions that are still up in the air due to injury, like LOLB, RG, and RT that conceivably could be addressed but we weren't necessarily bad off when we had our legitimate starters there. Getting Orchard back will hopefully improve the LOLB play, while a combo of Greco, Pasztor and Reiter should hopefully shore up the right side of the line.
Our absolutely, positively, can't miss, need help here spots are FS, SS, CB2, QB and C. We have to come away with new starters at those positions, via either the draft or FA.
That's not nearly as daunting of a list as "every player needs to be replaced".
LT, LG, WR1, WR2, DT, ROLB, ILB.
There's 7.
I'd also venture to say that we can probably get along with our current CB1, LE, TE, RB, RG, other ILB, and LOLB.
Now that's 14.
There are positions that are still up in the air due to injury, like LOLB, RG, and RT that conceivably could be addressed but we weren't necessarily bad off when we had our legitimate starters there. Getting Orchard back will hopefully improve the LOLB play, while a combo of Greco, Pasztor and Reiter should hopefully shore up the right side of the line.
Our absolutely, positively, can't miss, need help here spots are FS, SS, CB2, QB and C. We have to come away with new starters at those positions, via either the draft or FA.
That's not nearly as daunting of a list as "every player needs to be replaced".
I made a post on this the other week, and came out with about 8 starters required. Something like: CB2, CB3, SS, FS, DE, C, QB, TE2, something like that - about 7 or 8 positions where we're lacking 'starter level' talent. I think I had edge rusher as a need as well, but it depends on how you view the combination of Ogbah, Orchard, Collins (if he stays) and Nassib (in 43 fronts).
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Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
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Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
Id agree with those positions. I'm going to rip through my perfect offseason in a bit and see what we can address in FA as well as the draft.
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Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
Id agree with those positions. I'm going to rip through my perfect offseason in a bit and see what we can address in FA as well as the draft.
Id agree with those positions. I'm going to rip through my perfect offseason in a bit and see what we can address in FA as well as the draft.
There's some positions where our need really doesn't correspond with availability of solid starters in free agency. Center for example, basically nobody. Free Safety - unless we sign Eric Berry in some shocking move, there's again not much going on. QB it's a given that we're not going to get our guy.
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I say go for it. Take trunisky and for the love of god dont put him out there till our line is fixed. Ideally id like to take trunisky and an OL in the first round. Defensively theres really no one out there that makes me drool so use the two first rounders on a stud OL and a qb.
I thought Allan and Garrett and others were supposed to give us a hard on....no?
I thought Allan and Garrett and others were supposed to give us a hard on....no?
I like em but not over an Ol and a qb. Those problems are too immediate and glaring. If theres a stud tackle prospect we have to get him for RT and then move him to LT when thomas retires. This deficiency has to be adressed "right fucking now" or we're never going to solve the qb issue....ever
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Spent many, not all, but many, snaps focused on Elfein yesterday because of the buzz here about him.
The good:
- at 6'3 and 300 kid looks to have an exceptionally strong core;
- clean snapper and gets off quickly with pop and great leg drive;
- takes great angles, many of which were begged to be taken by MSU's 4-man look, many of which were set up by initial double-team;
- moves well, if a bit choppy, so is capable of pulling and turning corner;
- alert and quick to react in PassPro with his feet;
- polished posture with nice knee-bend and "seat"; and
- can anchor even if initially knocked back a yard... or two.
The other:
- blocks old school vs. DTs, i.e., with shoulders and forearms, depending on drive for "control";
- uses hands on 2nd and 3rd level D, mostly keeping them inside, but not always (called for one hold IIRC).
Summary:
Very good prospect... maybe even great. To elevate conclusively I need to see:
- Response to bigger, stronger NT/DT playing heads-up on him making him find/create angles;
- Response to above who can hand fight and/or swim his old school efforts, i.e., does he have the upper body/hands to fight back?;
- Results when pulls to trap and not turn up field; and
- Ability to chip DT to aid OG before releasing to 2nd level.
I look forward to more tape time.
His snap command early on in the season worried me. I'm not enough of a homer to over look that. I presume you've seen better control as the season has progressed?
His snap command early on in the season worried me. I'm not enough of a homer to over look that. I presume you've seen better control as the season has progressed?
Snap Command?
First time I have focused on him, tia...
JJ is an exception for his size as he is a freak combination of speed and strength.
... and quickness. His quick twitch/ strength combo out of the same set of muscles is what makes him so very special.
In college? Dude clowneys best tape is when ghosted around OL. They wouldnt get a hand on him. That and his speed is what had scouts salivating
Reads like a Mingo scouting report...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
Point being, I came up with a similar number of 'must upgrades' for the offseason. That'd be 4 top 50 picks as it stands, plus a couple of FA guys, and retaining everyone.
Browns should have like 5 picks in the top 65. They CAN start to make some hey with those picks.....but as someone noted....it is not how many and how high....but how good the picks become. Don't need no more Gilberts/Ervings/Manziels/Mingos/Weedens/Richardsons in the first round.
Or Greg Littles , Montario Hardestys, Brian Robiskies in the second round.
Or Leon McFaddens or Terence Wests in the third round.
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His snap command early on in the season worried me. I'm not enough of a homer to over look that. I presume you've seen better control as the season has progressed?
Snap Command?
First time I have focused on him, tia...
JJ is an exception for his size as he is a freak combination of speed and strength.
... and quickness. His quick twitch/ strength combo out of the same set of muscles is what makes him so very special.
In college? Dude clowneys best tape is when ghosted around OL. They wouldnt get a hand on him. That and his speed is what had scouts salivating
Reads like a Mingo scouting report...
Snap Command?
First time I have focused on him, tia...
... and quickness. His quick twitch/ strength combo out of the same set of muscles is what makes him so very special.
Reads like a Mingo scouting report...
Snap command - he was having trouble keeping them chest level or putting too much on it. A few real bad ones in the first couple games this year.
Yeah, Watts first step is every bit as elite as some other premier ends.
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Watching Mitch vs Miami from this season...
I'm starting to like Mitch. Please somebody book mark this for Cal's reference later.
edit: I'd also like to say I"m in the market for a big, chain moving running back. Crow and Duke are decent enough but even being 220 I don't see the Crow as the punishing runner Hue wants
for a power game between the tackles. I'm not saying get me a short yardage back, but somebody who in the middle rounds that can come in and smack a linebacker on an iso.
James Conner from Pitt? Big fella who can catch the ball.
James Conner from Pitt? Big fella who can catch the ball.
Agreed from ACC country..will be a Tough Hard-nose back in NFL & far more durable than FSU D.Cook imo..Get in later round also
edit: I'd also like to say I"m in the market for a big, chain moving running back. Crow and Duke are decent enough but even being 220 I don't see the Crow as the punishing runner Hue wants
for a power game between the tackles. I'm not saying get me a short yardage back, but somebody who in the middle rounds that can come in and smack a linebacker on an iso.
My Dad & I left Balt. game to the Navy/Tulsa game last Saturday. Than we returned to my hometown to watch Navy destroy ECU..Check out a senior now getting playing time at Navy Shawn White,6'1" 255lbs. yea,triple option but this kid runs & blocks in the hole like The Bus Bettis & hurdles over lineman in his path also. big time sleeper
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Id agree with those positions. I'm going to rip through my perfect offseason in a bit and see what we can address in FA as well as the draft.
There's some positions where our need really doesn't correspond with availability of solid starters in free agency. Center for example, basically nobody. Free Safety - unless we sign Eric Berry in some shocking move, there's again not much going on. QB it's a given that we're not going to get our guy.
There's some positions where our need really doesn't correspond with availability of solid starters in free agency. Center for example, basically nobody. Free Safety - unless we sign Eric Berry in some shocking move, there's again not much going on. QB it's a given that we're not going to get our guy.
Here's a fun fuckaround scenario that I did while sick. This is assuming we'd pay for free agents under 28 and that these free agents actually hit the market and don't resign with their respective teams.
Trade:
Joe Haden + 2017 1st round pick (#22) + 2017 3rd round pick + 2018 1st round pick to the Panthers in exchange for 2017 1st round pick + (#6) + 2017 2nd round pick
Re-sign:
Jonathan Cooper, Austin Pasztor, Terrelle Pryor, Jamie Collins, Jamar Taylor
Sign:
Trumaine Johnson, CB - 4 yr/ $60 million - $15 mil average
Eric Berry, FS - 5 yr/ $50 million - $10 mil average
Chance Warmack, OG - 4 yr/ $17 million - $4.25 mil average
Draft:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
Round 1 Pick 8 (CAR): Jabrill Peppers, OLB, Michigan - (There's no way in hell he falls this far)
Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
Round 2 Pick 8 (CAR): Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 25 (HOU): Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
Round 3 Pick 27 (DEN): Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 4 Pick 27 (DEN): Dan Skipper, OT, Arkansas
Round 5 Pick 1: Durham Smythe, TE, Notre Dame
Round 5 Pick 29: Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado
Round 6 Pick 1: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan
QB - Kizer/RG3/ Kessler
RB - Crow/ Duke / Perine
LT - Thomas / Bitonio
LG - Bitonio / Cooper
C - Greco / Pocic
RG - Warmack / Cooper
RT - Pazstor / Skipper
TE - Barnidge/ Smythe
WR1 - Pryor
WR2 - Coleman
WR3 - Hawkins?
RE - Garrett
DT - Shelton
LE - Nassib/Bryant
LOLB - Orchard
ILB - Davis
ILB - Kirksey
ROLB - Collins
CB1 - Johnson
CB2 - Tankersley
SCB - Taylor/ Awuzie
FS - Berry
SS - Peppers
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
From what I read, 2017 is NOT a strong year for OL, and that concerns me. Obviously, we need SO much help, and I have NO idea where that's coming from. I mean, you guys remember when we had it first and goal from like the 2 yard line and our first play was a 3 yard loss by Crow? Not that it was Crow's fault, but the point is Greco completely whiffed. I believe Crow got hit by TWO guys, so I don't know who else missed their block, but I know for sure Greco did. Crow got hit right when he got the ball! Jesus guys. Ya know, I don't put that play on Hue Jackson because, as a coach, you have to think that on first and goal from the 1 or 2, you have a pretty good chance to either get the TD or not LOSE yardage. Hue can't even call a run play. He literally can't do it.
Now, what I DO blame him for is not KNOWING that he couldn't call that run play. Should he be able to? Yes, he should be able to, but we CAN'T RIGHT NOW. Steelers were all over that Crow run, and what works really well on 1st and goal? Play action.
The good news for our team is the upcoming draft is strong with DB's and safeties. So that's good, but we obviously need a center, and we can't hang our hopes on Reiter. I keep hearing that the Browns "aren't getting their protections right." Well, whose fault is THAT? Is that the center? Is that the QB? Is that the coach? I don't know enough about football to know the answer, but from everything I hear, it's the CENTER that is supposed to call out protections. How many times did we see one of our RB's have to go up against Timmons? How does that keep happening? Ugh....I just can't right now.
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Draft Peppers and I'll burn every bit of Browns gear I own.
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I like taking Garrett and Skipper. Myles owes him one for the legal cheap shot at the knees that took him out of being a superman this year with the lingering injury. Bastard.
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Draft Peppers and I'll burn every bit of Browns gear I own.
So you're a Buckeye fan moonlighting as a Browns fan, got it.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
There's some positions where our need really doesn't correspond with availability of solid starters in free agency. Center for example, basically nobody. Free Safety - unless we sign Eric Berry in some shocking move, there's again not much going on. QB it's a given that we're not going to get our guy.
Here's a fun fuckaround scenario that I did while sick. This is assuming we'd pay for free agents under 28 and that these free agents actually hit the market and don't resign with their respective teams.
Trade:
Joe Haden + 2017 1st round pick (#22) + 2017 3rd round pick + 2018 1st round pick to the Panthers in exchange for 2017 1st round pick + (#6) + 2017 2nd round pick
Re-sign:
Jonathan Cooper, Austin Pasztor, Terrelle Pryor, Jamie Collins, Jamar Taylor
Sign:
Trumaine Johnson, CB - 4 yr/ $60 million - $15 mil average
Eric Berry, FS - 5 yr/ $50 million - $10 mil average
Chance Warmack, OG - 4 yr/ $17 million - $4.25 mil average
Draft:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
Round 1 Pick 8 (CAR): Jabrill Peppers, OLB, Michigan - (There's no way in hell he falls this far)
Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
Round 2 Pick 8 (CAR): Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 25 (HOU): Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
Round 3 Pick 27 (DEN): Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 4 Pick 27 (DEN): Dan Skipper, OT, Arkansas
Round 5 Pick 1: Durham Smythe, TE, Notre Dame
Round 5 Pick 29: Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado
Round 6 Pick 1: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan
QB - Kizer/RG3/ Kessler
RB - Crow/ Duke / Perine
LT - Thomas / Bitonio
LG - Bitonio / Cooper
C - Greco / Pocic
RG - Warmack / Cooper
RT - Pazstor / Skipper
TE - Barnidge/ Smythe
WR1 - Pryor
WR2 - Coleman
WR3 - Hawkins?
RE - Garrett
DT - Shelton
LE - Nassib/Bryant
LOLB - Orchard
ILB - Davis
ILB - Kirksey
ROLB - Collins
CB1 - Johnson
CB2 - Tankersley
SCB - Taylor/ Awuzie
FS - Berry
SS - Peppers
Here's a fun fuckaround scenario that I did while sick. This is assuming we'd pay for free agents under 28 and that these free agents actually hit the market and don't resign with their respective teams.
Trade:
Joe Haden + 2017 1st round pick (#22) + 2017 3rd round pick + 2018 1st round pick to the Panthers in exchange for 2017 1st round pick + (#6) + 2017 2nd round pick
Re-sign:
Jonathan Cooper, Austin Pasztor, Terrelle Pryor, Jamie Collins, Jamar Taylor
Sign:
Trumaine Johnson, CB - 4 yr/ $60 million - $15 mil average
Eric Berry, FS - 5 yr/ $50 million - $10 mil average
Chance Warmack, OG - 4 yr/ $17 million - $4.25 mil average
Draft:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
Round 1 Pick 8 (CAR): Jabrill Peppers, OLB, Michigan - (There's no way in hell he falls this far)
Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
Round 2 Pick 8 (CAR): Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 25 (HOU): Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
Round 3 Pick 27 (DEN): Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 4 Pick 27 (DEN): Dan Skipper, OT, Arkansas
Round 5 Pick 1: Durham Smythe, TE, Notre Dame
Round 5 Pick 29: Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado
Round 6 Pick 1: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan
QB - Kizer/RG3/ Kessler
RB - Crow/ Duke / Perine
LT - Thomas / Bitonio
LG - Bitonio / Cooper
C - Greco / Pocic
RG - Warmack / Cooper
RT - Pazstor / Skipper
TE - Barnidge/ Smythe
WR1 - Pryor
WR2 - Coleman
WR3 - Hawkins?
RE - Garrett
DT - Shelton
LE - Nassib/Bryant
LOLB - Orchard
ILB - Davis
ILB - Kirksey
ROLB - Collins
CB1 - Johnson
CB2 - Tankersley
SCB - Taylor/ Awuzie
FS - Berry
SS - Peppers
I like it!
Now....if only Shashi believed in signing FA talent.......
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Here's a fun fuckaround scenario that I did while sick. This is assuming we'd pay for free agents under 28 and that these free agents actually hit the market and don't resign with their respective teams.
Trade:
Joe Haden + 2017 1st round pick (#22) + 2017 3rd round pick + 2018 1st round pick to the Panthers in exchange for 2017 1st round pick + (#6) + 2017 2nd round pick
Re-sign:
Jonathan Cooper, Austin Pasztor, Terrelle Pryor, Jamie Collins, Jamar Taylor
Sign:
Trumaine Johnson, CB - 4 yr/ $60 million - $15 mil average
Eric Berry, FS - 5 yr/ $50 million - $10 mil average
Chance Warmack, OG - 4 yr/ $17 million - $4.25 mil average
Draft:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
Round 1 Pick 8 (CAR): Jabrill Peppers, OLB, Michigan - (There's no way in hell he falls this far)
Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
Round 2 Pick 8 (CAR): Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 25 (HOU): Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
Round 3 Pick 27 (DEN): Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 4 Pick 27 (DEN): Dan Skipper, OT, Arkansas
Round 5 Pick 1: Durham Smythe, TE, Notre Dame
Round 5 Pick 29: Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado
Round 6 Pick 1: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan
QB - Kizer/RG3/ Kessler
RB - Crow/ Duke / Perine
LT - Thomas / Bitonio
LG - Bitonio / Cooper
C - Greco / Pocic
RG - Warmack / Cooper
RT - Pazstor / Skipper
TE - Barnidge/ Smythe
WR1 - Pryor
WR2 - Coleman
WR3 - Hawkins?
RE - Garrett
DT - Shelton
LE - Nassib/Bryant
LOLB - Orchard
ILB - Davis
ILB - Kirksey
ROLB - Collins
CB1 - Johnson
CB2 - Tankersley
SCB - Taylor/ Awuzie
FS - Berry
SS - Peppers
I like it!
Now....if only Shashi believed in signing FA talent.......
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So you're a Buckeye fan moonlighting as a Browns fan, got it.
No, I'm a football fan that was born a Buckeye and a Browns fan (tragically)
Plus I know hype when I see it. As I've said before, Peppers isn't even the best DB on his own damn team.
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Perine would be nice, and would start.
Pocic and Warmack, me likey
Skipper kinda blows.
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Perine would be nice, and would start.
Pocic and Warmack, me likey
Skipper kinda blows.
Skipper?
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