Purge - 2017 - what'll happen?
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Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.
Won't happen.
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Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.
Won't happen.
Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.
Won't happen.
Don't be too sure of that.
These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.
Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.
Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.
We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.
As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You give them far more credit than they have deserved thus far Tim. But we shall see if they are fast learners, slow learners or uneducables.
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TC, I'd like to hear where you think the Browns should address area's of deficiency (which is everywhere i get it). Like do we address pass rushers in FA or in the draft? Do we address teh O line in FA or the draft? I didn't look at offensive FA's but i did look at the edge guys. I dunno, Dion Jordan is gonna be FA...he's the one guy the Browns might be interested in. I don't know shit about Calais Campbell except that he's making 11m. JPP is coming out but unlikely the giants don't resign him I would assume. Same with D.Ware, doubt Denver will let him go but who knows..but he's also 34 making 10m so negatory on that. Just my feeling that FA's on the defensive side this coming year aren't really all that hot. I would take a shot at Ingram in a heartbeat but no way SD lets him go, him and Bosa are their prime edge guys.
So do we go after OL in FA and take a pass rusher in the draft?
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The reason they have committed to this process is job security. They have sold Jimmy on this system.
Once they draft a QB at the top of the draft, the process starts
If they keep saying, "there isn't a QB worth starting a team with" they can keep their jobs
If they would've taken Wentz last draft, they would be gone after next year.
Now they have a bunch of loser QBs and can say they don't have their guy yet
Once they take the QB of the future, and they still suck, they are gone
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.
Won't happen.
Don't be too sure of that.
These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.
Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.
Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.
We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.
As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.
Don't be too sure of that.
These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.
Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.
Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.
We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.
As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.
What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.
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McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?
McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?
How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.
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Don't be too sure of that.
These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.
Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.
Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.
We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.
As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.
What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.
What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.
We have the youngest roster in the league and very few, if any, bloated veteran contracts eating up cap space (i.e. Kruger, Bess). Haden's contract may be our only minus contract.
We have enough draft capital to stay in place and add 4-5 starters and 4-5 backups, plus we're top ten in cap space in a year where there is some promising young talent hitting the market. The draft capital we have also allows us the freedom to move around in the first two rounds to ensure we get the guy(s) we want, as opposed to hoping for the best.
We have established two legitimate receiving threats in the WR corps, two legitimate threats on the offensive line, two legitimate threats in our linebacking corps, two solid enough runners, two solid enough defensive linemen and a solid enough tight end.
Those are all foundational pieces in rebooting a franchise. The number of wins on the board doesn't matter in the least right now.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
TC, I'd like to hear where you think the Browns should address area's of deficiency (which is everywhere i get it). Like do we address pass rushers in FA or in the draft? Do we address teh O line in FA or the draft? I didn't look at offensive FA's but i did look at the edge guys. I dunno, Dion Jordan is gonna be FA...he's the one guy the Browns might be interested in. I don't know shit about Calais Campbell except that he's making 11m. JPP is coming out but unlikely the giants don't resign him I would assume. Same with D.Ware, doubt Denver will let him go but who knows..but he's also 34 making 10m so negatory on that. Just my feeling that FA's on the defensive side this coming year aren't really all that hot. I would take a shot at Ingram in a heartbeat but no way SD lets him go, him and Bosa are their prime edge guys.
So do we go after OL in FA and take a pass rusher in the draft?
We go after whoever fits the profile, regardless of their position. There are only a few spaces on this team that I would flat out refuse to upgrade.TC, I'd like to hear where you think the Browns should address area's of deficiency (which is everywhere i get it). Like do we address pass rushers in FA or in the draft? Do we address teh O line in FA or the draft? I didn't look at offensive FA's but i did look at the edge guys. I dunno, Dion Jordan is gonna be FA...he's the one guy the Browns might be interested in. I don't know shit about Calais Campbell except that he's making 11m. JPP is coming out but unlikely the giants don't resign him I would assume. Same with D.Ware, doubt Denver will let him go but who knows..but he's also 34 making 10m so negatory on that. Just my feeling that FA's on the defensive side this coming year aren't really all that hot. I would take a shot at Ingram in a heartbeat but no way SD lets him go, him and Bosa are their prime edge guys.
So do we go after OL in FA and take a pass rusher in the draft?
I'd say you could probably cross out anyone over the age of 28 in FA.
Guys like Trumaine Johnson, Prince Amukamara and Stephon Gilmore, and Eric Berry would all be very likely targets should they hit the market.
There's a pool of rookies who were selected in the first round that have had their fifth year options declined. Players like Luke Joeckel, Chance Warmack and DJ Hayden all represent what this FO is looking for - likely high yield ROI. Should these guys hit the market, their talent potential should far exceed their actual asking price. These were guys that should have been franchise building blocks but have yet to turn the corner, and it's unlikely they all are actual busts. I've already expressed my feelings toward Joeckel and Warmack, I think they would be stellar acquisitions. Hayden would be interesting.
I believe those are the contracts we're looking for. The biggest FA is probably Berry. A great acquisition who fits the profile, but it's unlikely we get a player of his caliber for a price point we're comfortable with. That means we'lol have to look at someone like Conte instead.
We'll have to overpay for everyone. It'll be the only way to bring guys in initially. But I'd rather overpay for a 26 year old former first round pick coming off his rookie contract than for a 30 year old veteran looking to get one more payday.
We can bolster CB, RG and RT via FA and address QB, EDGE, S and C via the draft.
I wouldn't be opposed to going into 2017 with the same LT, LG, WR corps, offensive backfield, interior DL and LB corps.
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McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?
How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.
How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.
Hard to prove but Kubiak rode the bench. Pederson rode the bench. I think Wacky Wyche did too just off the top of my head.
It isn't just our young QBs that need to learn they need to get rid of the ball quicker and have some degree of pocket presence. In fact, when McCown is in there - he does have the opportunity to show the younger QBs he feels a T Suggs coming after Thomas has given him reasonable time off the edge.
On the defense side, both Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher were backup LBers before they were DCs prior to being hired as Head Coaches.
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I agree....he's making plays......and may be a keeper.....
A kinder, gentler, less caffeinated Flugel agrees with you.
Great topic Mud! I'm gonna have to wait until after I've seen enough of some to give you better answers than I can today on who stays and who sprays. For example, an evaluation of Danny Shelton last year looks nothing this one with more experience under his belt.
Totally agree with playing guys on our way to 0-16 so they can be evaluated enough to see if they an progress at least somewhat.
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I would assume that we've got a few guys heading to free agency in March who aren't going to let the door hit them in the ass.
I would assume that we've got a few guys heading to free agency in March who aren't going to let the door hit them in the ass.
Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)
I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....
The rest?.....not much there....
Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......
it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...
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I would assume that we've got a few guys heading to free agency in March who aren't going to let the door hit them in the ass.
Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)
I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....
The rest?.....not much there....
Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......
it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...
Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)
I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....
The rest?.....not much there....
Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......
it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...
Precisely!
Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.
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Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)
I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....
The rest?.....not much there....
Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......
it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...
Precisely!
Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.
Precisely!
Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.
Right.....and with all our issues on the OL......losing Greco and Bito would not be a smart way to go......they should work tirelessly to sign both THIS off season, instead of waiting for the courting and bidding war to begin.......
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Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.
Won't happen.
Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Won't happen.
Not a matter of won't... it's a matter of "can't". You simply cannot land "a few first rate players" in a single draft... it cannot be done.
The only thing your solution obviously is? Impractical...
You give them far more credit than they have deserved thus far Tim. But we shall see if they are fast learners, slow learners or uneducables.
Or you give them far less...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Precisely!
Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.
Right.....and with all our issues on the OL......losing Greco and Bito would not be a smart way to go......they should work tirelessly to sign both THIS off season, instead of waiting for the courting and bidding war to begin.......
Right.....and with all our issues on the OL......losing Greco and Bito would not be a smart way to go......they should work tirelessly to sign both THIS off season, instead of waiting for the courting and bidding war to begin.......
But once again the key questions will be, will they do this and have they the foresight to understand the stakes of not doing this?
And you are right Tour, I give them very little credit at all. And I am seeing that this has slowly been happening with several on here as we have watched all of 2016 unfold. So far it looks like an unstoppable disaster. I can only imagine what is going through Jimmy's mind, "WTF!"
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Don't be too sure of that.
These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.
Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.
Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.
We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.
As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.
What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.
What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.
As critical as Ive been, I do see a glimmer of improvement on D and, at least, a start toward a foundation.....nothing earth shattering, but a step forward in some respects.....
This FO has the benefit of Shelton and Kirksey being one year better and looking like true "quality" pro's......plus, the addition of Ogbah and Collins has helped.....so, now, instead of complete disaster at DL and LB....we are 1/2 way settled.....
Cant believe I just said that......""blink""
Not a matter of won't... it's a matter of "can't". You simply cannot land "a few first rate players" in a single draft... it cannot be done.
Lies.....all lies.....
I can....and WILL....be done.....daggommit....
But once again the key questions will be, will they do this and have they the foresight to understand the stakes of not doing this?
Who knows.....year one was full of whackadoodle decisions......maybe they've learned something.....maybe not.....
Year 2....they need to bring it.....or else.....
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Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.
Won't happen.
Not a matter of won't... it's a matter of "can't". You simply cannot land "a few first rate players" in a single draft... it cannot be done.
The only thing your solution obviously is? Impractical...
You give them far more credit than they have deserved thus far Tim. But we shall see if they are fast learners, slow learners or uneducables.
Or you give them far less...
Not a matter of won't... it's a matter of "can't". You simply cannot land "a few first rate players" in a single draft... it cannot be done.
Id say most teams have a goal to score 2 -3 players each draft......and they are allotted 7 picks each.....
So....with that in mind.....what is the goal when you have 14 picks?....and 5 inside the top 65?......
Definitely should have at least a "few first rate players" as your objective.....
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McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?
How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.
How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.
More a case for McC over RG3...
RG is still in the "something to prove" mode... kinda like Hoyer was here. Means they can't or won't fully commit to mentoring the younger teammates trying to make sure they sit every Sunday.
McC on the other hand is at the point in his career where he is willing to accept whatever role falls to him.
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