Camp Trubisky
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That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.
It makes sense if you have an entrenched coach or similar offensive system or somehow have maintained the same positional coach throughout multiple tenures.
But Clausen and Kizer are two different QB's from two different coaching systems and two different offenses. I agree though, I wouldn't want Kizer any higher than late second.
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If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?
I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
ND has been a hot mess in 2016. The Irish cannot run and they cannot stop the run. Yet statistically Kizer has held up.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Pros: strong arm, hits intermediate routes with zip, athletic, good size
Cons: holds onto the ball too long, has a slow throwing motion, no touch-especially on the deep ball, stares down 1 receiver, seems to trust his legs more than his arm, inconsistent accuracy
Overall, I do NOT see 1st round talent with Kiser. Just what I see. He is a read-option QB and does less with a better o-line than Turbisky. I see a developmental 2nd-4rd round guy who could become a starter with a few years sitting behind a vet QB- maybe Arizona or New Orleans.
#Justsayin' -
ND has been a hot mess in 2016. The Irish cannot run and they cannot stop the run. Yet statistically Kizer has held up.
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Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Not to worry. Mel Kiper and the Gang will have plenty of guys elevated far beyond their usefulness.
WSS
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Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Pros: strong arm, hits intermediate routes with zip, athletic, good size
Cons: holds onto the ball too long, has a slow throwing motion, no touch-especially on the deep ball, stares down 1 receiver, seems to trust his legs more than his arm, inconsistent accuracy
Overall, I do NOT see 1st round talent with Kiser. Just what I see. He is a read-option QB and does less with a better o-line than Turbisky. I see a developmental 2nd-4rd round guy who could become a starter with a few years sitting behind a vet QB- maybe Arizona or New Orleans.
Watched 7 of Kiser's games:
Which games from what year?
Wasn't that Texas Tech for like....a bagillion years? And Wazzou now?
Dunno... also unknown (or at least undected) is your point...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.
You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.
(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
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What grades are those, Gip? Link?
Just as you don't elevate a position of need because some fan on a chat board has read a couple headlines and thinks he knows what our FO is thinking...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
Ah... got it...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
No... no source. Just discounting your reporting...
As for QB need... absolutely it's a need. I do not see franchise level skill and dependability in a single QB on our sideline.
I arrived at this Board touting, "You always have to be looking for your next QB," and I've parleyed that approach into a few winning choices over the years.
But I have never let "need" blind me to the reality of the options out there... no matter how great the need may appear to be because of its magnification thru the prism of the "elevated" value/importance of the position. And that's what people are now doing... as usual. What is different is how openly they are doing it.
I may yet end up there with them on Mitchy-poo... but there has to be a lot of great tape on that road not yet traveled.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Ah... got it...
Grading, ranking. Perhaps I am using the terms interchangeably. I am not sure where you would get anything that would somehow be a separate "grade" for QBs. Is there a PFF type service out there?
And I think in your last sentence you have gotten yourself completely lost: A. Are you saying that the QB position does NOT hold an elevated status as a position of need for this team? B. Are you saying that we should completely discount anything that is reported out of the Browns FO? (you may perhaps be right about this.....but you also seem to be implying that you have some source....some direct contact that gives you more knowledge about what the Browns FO is thinking than the reporters who cover the team every day. So? What is this source? Who is your Deep Throat?
No... no source. Just discounting your reporting...
As for QB need... absolutely it's a need. I do not see franchise level skill and dependability in a single QB on our sideline.
I arrived at this Board touting, "You always have to be looking for your next QB," and I've parleyed that approach into a few winning choices over the years.
But I have never let "need" blind me to the reality of the options out there... no matter how great the need may appear to be because of its magnification thru the prism of the "elevated" value/importance of the position. And that's what people are now doing... as usual. What is different is how openly they are doing it.
I may yet end up there with them on Mitchy-poo... but there has to be a lot of great tape on that road not yet traveled.
Ah... got it...
No... no source. Just discounting your reporting...
There are massive number of rankings sources. If YOU think you know of one that does "grading"...again please share.
As for QB need... absolutely it's a need. I do not see franchise level skill and dependability in a single QB on our sideline.
I arrived at this Board touting, "You always have to be looking for your next QB," and I've parleyed that approach into a few winning choices over the years.
But I have never let "need" blind me to the reality of the options out there... no matter how great the need may appear to be because of its magnification thru the prism of the "elevated" value/importance of the position. And that's what people are now doing... as usual. What is different is how openly they are doing it.
Well, if you think you have prioritized the needs of this team...again, share it.
I may yet end up there with them on Mitchy-poo... but there has to be a lot of great tape on that road not yet traveled.
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PFF grades collegiate players... meant to mention that earlier. I have no issue with various rankings, however.
Draft Scouts, who CBS gets their rankings from, is pretty good in my experience and since they rank overall as well as by position, grades can be easily inferred. But the problem is their 2017 list is incomplete at present because they do not inject underclassmen until they declare. So until they do, I rarely look at their work.
As for prioritizing our needs? So far I have LT at the bottom and NT just above LT. Will update later...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
At the moment I would rank the two most important positions of need as edge rusher (so the D gets off the field and the DBs function better) and Center (so the QB's avoid what we saw this year so far, massive casualties and no time to find receivers). QB is 3rd because no use ruining another with such a weak OL. Plus I'd like to see what Kessler can do without having to watch defenders coming to deliver the next blow in 2 seconds or less.
I still have that old school mentality, D's win Superbowls and Lines win football.
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At the moment I would rank the two most important positions of need as edge rusher (so the D gets off the field and the DBs function better) and Center (so the QB's avoid what we saw this year so far, massive casualties and no time to find receivers). QB is 3rd because no use ruining another with such a weak OL. Plus I'd like to see what Kessler can do without having to watch defenders coming to deliver the next blow in 2 seconds or less.
I still have that old school mentality, D's win Superbowls and Lines win football.
At the moment I would rank the two most important positions of need as edge rusher (so the D gets off the field and the DBs function better) and Center (so the QB's avoid what we saw this year so far, massive casualties and no time to find receivers). QB is 3rd because no use ruining another with such a weak OL. Plus I'd like to see what Kessler can do without having to watch defenders coming to deliver the next blow in 2 seconds or less.
I still have that old school mentality, D's win Superbowls and Lines win football.
I struggle to vastly disagree but think a free safety is as big a need as center almost.
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I think we should just try to sign one.....a C.....if at all possible....
This OL thing is really hurting us...preventing our run game from success....killing our QB's....etc.....and it's been several years of this.....so would prefer to plug a "proven" someone in, as opposed to drafting another prospect and enduring another year(or more) of hoping they develop.....
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I think we should just try to sign one.....a C.....if at all possible....
This OL thing is really hurting us...preventing our run game from success....killing our QB's....etc.....and it's been several years of this.....so would prefer to plug a "proven" someone in, as opposed to drafting another prospect and enduring another year(or more) of hoping they develop.....
I think we should just try to sign one.....a C.....if at all possible....
This OL thing is really hurting us...preventing our run game from success....killing our QB's....etc.....and it's been several years of this.....so would prefer to plug a "proven" someone in, as opposed to drafting another prospect and enduring another year(or more) of hoping they develop.....
I can't disagree with that Mud. Pay "The Man". Anyone up in the FA market this year?
Edit-found this.
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None of those names leap out, maybe Schwenke? The ones above are probably too old for our plan.
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None of those names leap out, maybe Schwenke? The ones above are probably too old for our plan.
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Could be. But when considering drafting a kid and the inherently unknown aspect of that, we also need to consider the guy on our IR, Reiter, who is also an unknown but clearly has something about him and doesn't cost a draft pick.
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