Draft Talk
-
I think we all know that the draft will look drastically different come April, but it sure is fun to talk about. Hell, we need SOMETHING fun to talk about, right?
I've heard a few analysts say that Ogbah's numbers would vastly improve if he had a dominant force opposite of him. They cited numerous times in recent games where the QB would simply fade to his right to avoid Ogbah's pressure, and then fire the ball away. I started thinking about it, and it made sense. If there is opposing pressure, the QB has nowhere to go. Shelton has really turned into a player that other teams have to respect, and I've seen him collapse the pocket by bull-rushing his man towards the QB. I think the HOPE was that Nassib would be the opposing force, but I don't know if he's really been progressing. Certainly his hand injury didn't help matters, but drafting a blue chip pass rusher is almost NEVER a bad idea.
The problem, when you're as bad as we are, is that we have giant holes ALL over the place, and obviously we can't fill each one during one draft and offseason. I thought our defense had their best game Sunday, but it was still pretty obvious we needed more pressure. More pressure for sacks, fumbles, and forced passes that can lead to interceptions (you remember those, right?). There is no pick out there that is a "sure thing", I think we all know that. But Garrett and Allen are pretty close. Clowney was a physical freak who had incredible gifts, but even his immense physical abilities were drastically cut by injuries and subsequent microfracture surgery. Another guy who went #1 at a similar position was Mario Williams. I remember him being an immediate threat, and his size/speed was apparent as soon as he played. Myles Garrett isn't quite as thick as Williams, but he's definitely a bit faster.
At this time, the only QB who has rising stock (in my feeble mind) is Mitch Trubisky. This could and probably WILL change in the coming months, but as of right now, Mitch is looking more and more like the first QB off the board. If Chip Kelly is still at San Fran, I don't think Kizer fits his preferences. Mitch isn't a PERFECT fit, but I think he fits better nevertheless. We can't get Garrett or Allen AND Mitch...not without a trade that would severely damage our ability to grow. The more realistic scenario to me is trading a high pick to Patriots for Garoppolo. Yes, we still lose a pick, which hurts, but essentially we'd be "drafting" Garoppolo with that high pick, whereas if we traded to move ALL the way up for Mitch, we'd be giving away far more than just one high pick.
Watch for the Garoppolo rumor to start picking up steam soon. ESPECIALLY if Patriots have their division and homefield locked up early and Garoppolo gets to start a couple games and performs well. We've done business with the Patriots a few times already, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the trade has already been discussed at length. Hue has already intimated that he has his eye on a particular QB...but we're left to wonder exactly who he is.
Watch for the Garoppolo rumor to start picking up steam soon. ESPECIALLY if Patriots have their division and homefield locked up early and Garoppolo gets to start a couple games and performs well. We've done business with the Patriots a few times already, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the trade has already been discussed at length. Hue has already intimated that he has his eye on a particular QB...but we're left to wonder exactly who he is.
The Garroppolo rumor has already started in some quarters.
Garropolo may be Ryan Mallet part two.
Or Matt Cassell. If Bill thinks Jacoby Brissett is better than Jimmy- danger! warning! Why on earth would Bill part with his potential QBOTF, when Brady is going to turn 40 next August? This was hashed out at great length on the other board.
-
If Garropolo was anything Brissett probably wouldn't be drafted. Patriots also passed on Brady remember they're not the QB evaluation yardstick.
-
If QB isn't first pick you can bet your ass it's DE or Oline.
Either way Oline is going to be one of your top 2 picks, so identify whom they are now.
If QB isn't first pick you can bet your ass it's DE or Oline.
Either way Oline is going to be one of your top 2 picks, so identify whom they are now.
1. Why the hurry.
2. Ain't buying it...
Of all the positions to mine on Day 2, none are richer than OL... especially interior OL.
I think if Vontaze Burfict was a Brown that everyone would be overlooking his propensity for being a scumbag.
No... but some assholes would have applauded his cheap shots on Steelers.
Another guy who went #1 at a similar position was Mario Williams. I remember him being an immediate threat, and his size/speed was apparent as soon as he played. Myles Garrett isn't quite as thick as Williams, but he's definitely a bit faster.
Actually Mario started slow his rookie year... Did not record a sack until game 4 or so and then only totaled 5-ish in 16 starts as a rookie. It had the Texans very nervous as they'd passed over fan-fav RB and Heisman winner, Reggie Bush. But Year 2 Mario had his best year as a Texan... may have also been his best as a pro.
While Garrett is likely faster/quicker he is nowhere near as thick. Mario came out of NCSt at 295 and trimmed down as a Texan. Also posted 35 reps in the Combine bench press... something I'd forgotten...
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=11478&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE
The Patriots are not trading Garoppolo if he is a capable starter. Their starting QB is 2 years older than an ancient Josh McCown.
Nah... Tom's playing forever... or at least long enough to shuffle through a couple more prospects... or let Garoppolo bust as the starter somewhere else and return to the nest as an FA.
-
Adams is a thug. You sure you want him? Would ruin your whole narrative.
I think if Vontaze Burfict was a Brown that everyone would be overlooking his propensity for being a scumbag.
I think if Vontaze Burfict was a Brown that everyone would be overlooking his propensity for being a scumbag.
I was in that boat till he lunged at that NE TE's knee. It's just getting too much. One of these days he's gonna pull something like that and the other team is gonna put a 3rd stringer in to take dalton out.
-
Still love those steelers highlights though
-
Hey Tour, I know your OL guru around here so I was wondering if you had any expertise in TE's as well. I know it's not really the same thing but I figure there's some overlap there.
Hey Tour, I know your OL guru around here so I was wondering if you had any expertise in TE's as well. I know it's not really the same thing but I figure there's some overlap there.
Expertise? Moi? Nah... but like good art, I know what I like.
Occasionally when looking at OL tape I do see a TE that can block and then I pay attention to whether they can catch as well. CJ Fiedorowicz out of Iowa was the last TE that filled that bill and he's turning out to be a good, well-rounded one for the Texans.
Our Devalve did distract me when I was scouting some Princeton OL... who for the life of me I cannot remember now... but Seth was split out most of the time so it was not his blocking that caught my eye.
-
Hey Tour, I know your OL guru around here so I was wondering if you had any expertise in TE's as well. I know it's not really the same thing but I figure there's some overlap there.
Expertise? Moi? Nah... but like good art, I know what I like.
Occasionally when looking at OL tape I do see a TE that can block and then I pay attention to whether they can catch as well. CJ Fiedorowicz out of Iowa was the last TE that filled that bill and he's turning out to be a good, well-rounded one for the Texans.
Our Devalve did distract me when I was scouting some Princeton OL... who for the life of me I cannot remember now... but Seth was split out most of the time so it was not his blocking that caught my eye.
Expertise? Moi? Nah... but like good art, I know what I like.
Occasionally when looking at OL tape I do see a TE that can block and then I pay attention to whether they can catch as well. CJ Fiedorowicz out of Iowa was the last TE that filled that bill and he's turning out to be a good, well-rounded one for the Texans.
Our Devalve did distract me when I was scouting some Princeton OL... who for the life of me I cannot remember now... but Seth was split out most of the time so it was not his blocking that caught my eye.
In that case, I'd like to ask if Sprinkle, the TE out of Arkansas, is capable of painting a picture that, at the very least, catches your eye. If, of course, you can fit it into your (hopefully) annual scouting reports.
At the very least, he should have a "Boy Named Sue" complex to him.
-
Ah, that's right. Williams didn't start fast, it was his SECOND year where he completely blew up. Think he had around 15 sacks or something stupid like that.
-
Ah, that's right. Williams didn't start fast, it was his SECOND year where he completely blew up. Think he had around 15 sacks or something stupid like that.
Ah, that's right. Williams didn't start fast, it was his SECOND year where he completely blew up. Think he had around 15 sacks or something stupid like that.
I was trying to remember what factors may have contributed to his sack explosion year 2 aside from his own development.
First was general team improvement... the Texans went from 6-10 to 8-8. I think they were in even more games late as well, meaning more passing by opponents.
Second may be a rookie DT they added, Amobi Okoye... a first round, #10 overall pick who posted 5.5 sacks his rookie year. I'd completely forgotten about him. He was a cat-quick, 300-pound, Louisville product who played RDT for the Texans. IIRC Mario primarily lined up at LDE.
Not exactly the pincer created by book end edge rushers, but pressure up the middle kept/put QBs in the path of mario's speed rush.
And I double checked... Mario posted 4.5 sacks his rookie year followed by 14.0 his sophomore... then 12.0. So our memories were in the ball park...
-
Depot leads the Browns braintrust into Draft Day 2017.
-
I have a question, not really sure it deserves it's own thread though. When Poyer went down, why didn't we re-sign Rahim Moore? He'd been with the team through all of training camp, knew the scheme, was an actual safety with experience playing the position. We tried to play Tracy Howard there, it didn't work because he was a rookie and a corner. Ed Reynolds has been underwhelming (which is basically a compliment on this team), but you've got a guy there on the couch so to speak, who you know, can basically plug and play.
Anyone any ideas? He's not been signed elsewhere, is still young enough to be a contributor in the future but you'd probably get him for vet minimum. In keeping with the FO plan and philosophy, why not? Why force a guy you know isn't the long term answer in Howard, rather than getting a better guy (who's probably not the long term answer) in Moore? If we had a guy we were counting on to be a big player in the future and just threw him in then sure, but that's not the case.
-
Also who fancies a bit of draft postulating? I do. Here's a link to the CBS big board (no reason for CBS except we're all working from the same board). As it stands we have picks 1, 14, 33, 47 and 65. Others too but don't expect big contributions from them. You get to pick any player from that spot on the big board, up to say 4-5 places lower. So for pick one you get a choice of Allen, Garrett, Peppers, Trubisky, and Marlon Humphrey. Then the same for the other picks. Obviously it's not going to be exact but it's not unreasonable to think your guy will be there at roughly that pick.
So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:
1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School
14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington
65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia
That addresses the two non-QB positions on offense where we could use an upgrade most immediately (interior OL and complementary TE), and then adds talent to the D including an elite pass rusher.
If you really wanted to upgrade the front seven you could go the Alabama route and take Allan at 1 and Tim Williams at 14, and I would really, strongly hope we could get Adoree Jackson at 33, but if not Ethan Pocic would be a good alternative, but there's still some solid looking centers a little lower.
-
And if you want to be a bit more creative, you can add two veteran FA starters, if you name them, not just "sign a FA center"
-
Also who fancies a bit of draft postulating? I do. Here's a link to the CBS big board (no reason for CBS except we're all working from the same board). As it stands we have picks 1, 14, 33, 47 and 65. Others too but don't expect big contributions from them. You get to pick any player from that spot on the big board, up to say 4-5 places lower. So for pick one you get a choice of Allen, Garrett, Peppers, Trubisky, and Marlon Humphrey. Then the same for the other picks. Obviously it's not going to be exact but it's not unreasonable to think your guy will be there at roughly that pick.
So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:
1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School
14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington
65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia
That addresses the two non-QB positions on offense where we could use an upgrade most immediately (interior OL and complementary TE), and then adds talent to the D including an elite pass rusher.
If you really wanted to upgrade the front seven you could go the Alabama route and take Allan at 1 and Tim Williams at 14, and I would really, strongly hope we could get Adoree Jackson at 33, but if not Ethan Pocic would be a good alternative, but there's still some solid looking centers a little lower.
Also who fancies a bit of draft postulating? I do. Here's a link to the CBS big board (no reason for CBS except we're all working from the same board). As it stands we have picks 1, 14, 33, 47 and 65. Others too but don't expect big contributions from them. You get to pick any player from that spot on the big board, up to say 4-5 places lower. So for pick one you get a choice of Allen, Garrett, Peppers, Trubisky, and Marlon Humphrey. Then the same for the other picks. Obviously it's not going to be exact but it's not unreasonable to think your guy will be there at roughly that pick.
So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:
1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School
14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington
65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia
That addresses the two non-QB positions on offense where we could use an upgrade most immediately (interior OL and complementary TE), and then adds talent to the D including an elite pass rusher.
If you really wanted to upgrade the front seven you could go the Alabama route and take Allan at 1 and Tim Williams at 14, and I would really, strongly hope we could get Adoree Jackson at 33, but if not Ethan Pocic would be a good alternative, but there's still some solid looking centers a little lower.
I'm all over that draft, with the sole exception of Jake Butt. We're already the "Butt" of every NFL joke...can't give people another reason to make fun of us! All kidding aside, I think we're "ok" at tight end. Seth Devalve looked far more comfortable, and actually looked terrific with the ball in his hands. He didn't just fall down on contact, and looked quick and strong. I also read that his blocking is progressing nicely. Only thing that worries me about him is his ability to stay on the field. He was injured in college (I think), and he was injured with us most of the year. Barnidge is a better TE than his numbers indicate. He has been negatively impacted by our terrible QB's, and our subpar OL. But I think he's ok for another year, maybe two. He's no spring chicken, but his play last year was no fluke.
The BIGGEST concern with your draft is that it doesn't address the QB position. It would seem foolish for us to think we'll be playing next year with our same group of QB's. Even if RG III pulls out some damn miracle and plays well, his injury history prevents him from becoming "our guy", right? Kessler doesn't have the required athletic ability to play QB for a team with a bad OL either. I'm not talking about "arm strength", I'm talking about the ability to run from pressure, and the power needed to break away from defenders. You ever notice how Cody gets touched and it's all over? Can you imagine that happening to many other starting QB's? And McCown is obviously done with...and ready for his coaching career.
-
Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.
BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.
-
Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.
BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.
Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.
BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.
Yeah, I don't see Hue "giving up" on Kessler at all, but I think it would be foolish to ignore his concussion history, and his physical limitations. We will undoubtedly either draft a QB, or find a way to trade for one.
-
Ok, if we're adding "our own QB's" here, let's start to take a look at the "second tier" guys.
Brady Kaaya - QB, Miami-FL. My Seminoles have kicked his ass for several years, so that's good, LOL. But seriously, many scouts seem to like what he brings to the table. He's listed at around 6'4, 215 pounds. Looks like he could use some more muscle, but that will come. I'm sure the combine will show him at probably 6'2 and 208 pounds...you know how the schools like to inflate the numbers. Nevertheless, he has decent size, and solid potential. Here's an excerpt from an article back in August.
What I liked: Kaaya has quick feet in his setup and he has a smooth, fluid delivery. He throws a beautiful, tight ball and he has enough velocity to make all of the throws. He operates in a spread attack but there are plenty of examples where I see him read the entire field. He flashes the ability to anticipate and accurately deliver tight-window throws (see TD vs. Virginia Tech). He is at his best on quick-rhythm throws. The ball comes out quickly and accurately. He isn't much of a threat as a runner but he will occasionally escape and buy time.
First Look:
NFL Media analyst and former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah takes a "first look" at college football's top players for 2016.- Michigan TE Jake Butt
- Miami QB Brad Kaaya
- Oklahoma RB Samaje Perine
- Alabama OT Cam Robinson
- LSU S Jamal Adams
- Michigan DB Jabrill Peppers
- Ohio State LB Raekwon McMillan
- USC CB Adoree' Jackson
- Missouri DE Charles Harris
- Alabama TE O.J. Howard
- Florida CB Jalen Tabor
- Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly
- Alabama OLB Tim Williams
- FSU RB Dalvin Cook
- USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster
- Alabama DL Jonathan Allen
- Stanford RB Christian McCaffrey
- Texas A&M DE Myles Garrett
- LSU RB Leonard Fournette
- Clemson QB Deshaun Watson
Where he needs to improve: Kaaya struggled when pressured. He falls off throws and his accuracy suffers. His offensive line was leaky in these games and Kaaya took a beating (he was knocked out of the Clemson game). He also needs to work on connecting his feet to his eyes. He quickly works through progressions with his eyes but sometimes his feet fail to catch up, which causes some balls to sail. His deep-ball accuracy is another area that needs improvement. I haven't seen him play in person but he looks thin on tape. He's listed at 210 pounds. I'd like to see him closer to 225 pounds.
Biggest takeaway: Kaaya is very smooth and has plenty of arm talent. I'll be looking for him to show more poise under pressure this fall. If he can clean that up, he will take his game to a new level. It will be interesting to see how he functions in Richt's system. I see some similarities to Jared Goff and Teddy Twatwater. They share similar physical builds and arm talent but I thought Goff and Bridgewater performed better under duress.
I can't wait to see him play ... Florida State on Oct. 8. There's nothing better than a tradition-rich rivalry game. Florida State has been the superior program in the state of late but Miami has high hopes this season. Florida state is loaded with defensive talent and it will present a huge challenge for Kaaya. Safety Derwin James is one of the top defenders in the country and Kaaya will need to avoid him as the QB tries to lead the Hurricanes to a win.
FYI - Kaaya was 19-32 for 214 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT against the Noles. However, he did bring them on a potential game-tying drive in the final minutes, and it was thwarted by FSU as Demarcus Walker somehow blocked the extra point. Hehehe. Suck it, Hurricanes.
Pat Mahomes - Texas Tech, QB. At 6'2 and 215, he's got decent size, and he puts up video game numbers. Has strong enough arm, and runs about a 4.7 40. He's the quintessential "spread QB", so we all know the challenges there. But his ability to throw the ball is undeniable, and he could be a draft riser if he declares.
I don't have the time to find a better scouting report, so I'm sorry. I'll be back on later after I pound out some work. I'll also find some other QB prospects that should be available with 2nd to 5th round selections. BTW, I don't "love" any of these guys, but I'm not sure what we'll do in terms of the QB position. One of the reasons Hue Jackson was HIRED was to fix our QB problem, and he promised to address it. We shall see.
-
Oh yeah, one more quick addition to the second tier QB list, and he's growing into my favorite (other than Mitch):
Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma, listed as 6'1 and 212 pounds, is actually compared favorably to...Johnny Manziel. Now, before you go crazy and start throwing spears at my head, they compare him to Johnny because of the way HE PLAYS, not how he acts. He has incredible "escapability", and loves to make plays out of nothing. This can get him into trouble, but he is pretty fun to watch. I don't think he is a "plug and play" option, but I could see Hue Jackson falling in love with someone like this. Like I've said a few times, it's an incredible shame that Manziel couldn't get his life together because I think he would've been an INCREDIBLE asset with Hue Jackson. I really do. I don't have time to do the research on Mayfield right now, but look him up.
-
Oh yeah, one more quick addition to the second tier QB list, and he's growing into my favorite (other than Mitch):
Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma, listed as 6'1 and 212 pounds, is actually compared favorably to...Johnny Manziel. Now, before you go crazy and start throwing spears at my head, they compare him to Johnny because of the way HE PLAYS, not how he acts. He has incredible "escapability", and loves to make plays out of nothing. This can get him into trouble, but he is pretty fun to watch. I don't think he is a "plug and play" option, but I could see Hue Jackson falling in love with someone like this. Like I've said a few times, it's an incredible shame that Manziel couldn't get his life together because I think he would've been an INCREDIBLE asset with Hue Jackson. I really do. I don't have time to do the research on Mayfield right now, but look him up.
Oh yeah, one more quick addition to the second tier QB list, and he's growing into my favorite (other than Mitch):
Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma, listed as 6'1 and 212 pounds, is actually compared favorably to...Johnny Manziel. Now, before you go crazy and start throwing spears at my head, they compare him to Johnny because of the way HE PLAYS, not how he acts. He has incredible "escapability", and loves to make plays out of nothing. This can get him into trouble, but he is pretty fun to watch. I don't think he is a "plug and play" option, but I could see Hue Jackson falling in love with someone like this. Like I've said a few times, it's an incredible shame that Manziel couldn't get his life together because I think he would've been an INCREDIBLE asset with Hue Jackson. I really do. I don't have time to do the research on Mayfield right now, but look him up.
Already watched him. He's just like Johnny in every way on the field. Panics and bails early, can't go through progressions and anticipate windows... but God damn, that ESCAPABILITY YO!!!
Everybody loves a scrambling QB because it's so non conventional. However not constantly effective because once you remove the offense from the gimmick, all you're left with is the latter.
Nobody, including Hue, should be falling in love with his ability.
edit: 6'1 212 my ass.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login