Browns "elite" O-line
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Yeah, we've certainly had our share of struggles. Between injuries, QB's holding onto the ball too long, inadequate OL play, and just bad play-calling...the sacks we've given up are unacceptable. Conversely, we don't return the favor and sack the opposing team's QB...like...ever. We forced Rivers into some rushed throws, but we never brought him down, and that's unacceptable. Not one time. I saw countless times where we sent 5 or even 6 defenders, and I saw them simply get enveloped by a Chargers OL with more injuries than ours. We couldn't beat 3rd string players.
So, yes you're right about drafting OL, but just importantly is drafting SOMEONE that can get to the QB.
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Something that doesn't get mentioned a lot is the impact of the QB calling out protections - something you can guarantee RG3 isn't going to excel at, and Kessler is just a rookie.
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Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
"I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field." That's not saying much TC. I still think we need an upgrade at center. Too bad Mack wanted out of town. I really do see us drafting OL with one of the two second round picks.
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Why so many sacks?
Well, let's start with the two things you can't blame:
1. Our Left Tackle: He's every bit as good as all of his accolades.
2. The scheme: Andy Dalton's sacks doubled this year without Hue. In fact, the two years that Hue was OC, he was sacked 20.5 times per season. The years without Hue: 34.8 sacks per season
So here are the things you CAN blame:
1. Inexperience: Other than JT, this is who we started last week ...LG Spencer Drango, rookie, 8 starts. I believe he played left tackle in college, so these may be the fifth rounder's only starts at LG. Ever. ... C Cam Erving, 2nd year, 12 starts as a center, 4 as a guard. Cam now has a grand total of 16 starts under his belt when you throw in the four he had when he got thrown in at guard last year ... Jonathan Cooper, RG, 3rd year, 14 starts. Despite being in the league a year longer than Cam, he actually has less NFL starts. Not to mention, he was picked up midseason, did not have a training camp with this staff, and only three starts in this system ... RT Austin Pasztor, 5th year, 42 starts. This 26 year old is the greybeard of the fearsome foursome, but this is the most he has ever started in one season, and only the second time he started half a season or more.
2. Ability: Drango is a 5th round rookie, Cooper was available off the street midseason, Erving has been a disappointment by all measurements so far and Pasztor was originally undrafted and was released last year, we picked up off the trash heap to be honest. (I'm not saying these guys don't have a bright future with us, just pointing out what we are working with).
3. Holding the Ball too long: Kessler and McCoy were notorious and Griffin has been doing it as well. With Kessler I think inexperience is a big factor, with McCoy and Griffin, I think the biggest factor is ...
4.THE WIDE RECEIVERS: Neither of our starting wideouts had ever started a game in the NFL before this season. One converted from QB to WR last year, the other is a 22 yo rookie. The rest of the bunch are rookies as well, spare Andrew Hawkins who is another guy that needs support. He needs big time WRs to open up the field so he can do his thing from the slot.
So do we draft OL? Sure, you always do. I think you can pencil in Thomas, Bitonio and Erving next year. Cooper could be the man at RG. So you've got Drango, Shon Coleman and Pasztor to compete for the other spot and you throw a top 3 round rookie in there and we may just be alright. Nothing helps like experience.
And that includes experience not just on the line, but at QB and WR as well. It is all going to get better. We have a boatload of picks, and I'm sure the OL will not be ignored. But it is not priority #1.
Zombo
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Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
Agreed. Let's just get Elflein or Pocic and let whoever wins the battle get the spot.
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Zombo said:
Edited: Cooper SO not going to be the man at RG next year.
Why do you say that?
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Zombo said:
Edited: Cooper SO not going to be the man at RG next year.
Why do you say that?
Why do you say that?
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Center has to be addressed. That simple. Ervings body of work in two years doesn't point to giving us the ability to ignore the position moving forward. Especially if there are potentially great centers available via draft.
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Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
"I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field." That's not saying much TC. I still think we need an upgrade at center. Too bad Mack wanted out of town. I really do see us drafting OL with one of the two second round picks.
"I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field." That's not saying much TC. I still think we need an upgrade at center. Too bad Mack wanted out of town. I really do see us drafting OL with one of the two second round picks.
I think he's actually coming into his own a bit. I would still advocate for a 3rd round center for competition sake, but Erving has played remarkably better in the last two-three games and he's....dare I say it....earned a chance to compete for the starting nod next season.
Erving is currently getting the Schwartz treatment - bad early career left him as the butt of jokes to the point that it shrouded his actual good play when it ultimately happened. He was the second highest rated offensive player against Buffalo. The game is coming along.
I think Hue is invested heavily in Erving at this point and we'all see him at starting C next season.
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Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
All I can is we fundamentally disagree here. Erving is turning into the defintion of a bust.
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Erving will be our starting center next year, we'll return Greco and Bito and Pasztor.
That's a perfectly acceptable line. Erving has grown over the past three games to the point that I don't physically vomit when I see him on the field.
All I can is we fundamentally disagree here. Erving is turning into the defintion of a bust.
All I can is we fundamentally disagree here. Erving is turning into the defintion of a bust.
Have you actually watched him play recently or are you just going with what people on message boards say?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Have you actually watched him play recently or are you just going with what people on message boards say?
Yes, I have watched him TC. He's advanced from a total pile of crap, to just on the low side of mediocre.
Not addressed to you- but some folks here think if a player suits up and gets on the field, he must be OK at least.
I wouldn't be all that shocked if we have two new starters on OL next year. Other than JT and Bito, IMHO- we could upgrade at all the other spots.
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Erving is at least improving. Until the trajectory turns back downward, why not keep riding the wave?
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he's improving but he set the bar at an all time low with his play before the past few games.
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Erving is at least improving. Until the trajectory turns back downward, why not keep riding the wave?
Erving is at least improving. Until the trajectory turns back downward, why not keep riding the wave?
I'm with you. I would not cut him yet. See how he does this last week and all preseason first. (But still draft a pure quality center or get a FA one)
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Have you actually watched him play recently or are you just going with what people on message boards say?
Just to expand on what was said above, if this was end of year one I would be a lot more in your camp. The problem, his bad tape is still AWFUL. You can put lipstick on a pig but it isn't going to help that much in the end.
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