those wanting garoppolo
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Just for the record we were talking for a 1st AND a 4th. Somehow that second player keeps getting left out of the discussion.
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Zombo said:
Garappolo is very similar to Dalton who excelled under Hue.
Not sure if we can call Kessler a game manager yet. Needs to manage a win first.
He certainly seems to operate slowly, as opposed to the lights out performances of JG in his two starts.
Yes I recognize the talent difference around them. Kessler needs to improve his pocket presence and deep balls big time.
Z
We'll just have to agree to disagree here Z. Can we put this to bed for another month or two?
& if you didn't know (doubtful) Doolin' Dalton was a second round pick like Jimmy- AND has been a monumental playoff bust? I'm 1,000% convinced Bill is trying to pull off a heist on an unsuspecting team that's willing to ignore his past robberies.
Yeah, I sure hope our cold-blooded analytics crew will look at this from a value perspective- and take the long view if one of the other qbs in the upcoming draft is a better prospect than giving up a high pick for Jimmy. LOL,we're building through the draft don't ya know? We don't even know yet if my fave Mitch is even going to declare for the draft. And hell yes, right now I'd take Trubisky or Deshawn Watson (but not Kizer) over Jimmy. I'll report in more detail after their respective Bowl games- I reserve the right to change my mind. (((())))
We'll just have to agree to disagree here Z. Can we put this to bed for another month or two?
& if you didn't know (doubtful) Doolin' Dalton was a second round pick like Jimmy- AND has been a monumental playoff bust? I'm 1,000% convinced Bill is trying to pull off a heist on an unsuspecting team that's willing to ignore his past robberies.
Yeah, I sure hope our cold-blooded analytics crew will look at this from a value perspective- and take the long view if one of the other qbs in the upcoming draft is a better prospect than giving up a high pick for Jimmy. LOL,we're building through the draft don't ya know? We don't even know yet if my fave Mitch is even going to declare for the draft. And hell yes, right now I'd take Trubisky or Deshawn Watson (but not Kizer) over Jimmy. I'll report in more detail after their respective Bowl games- I reserve the right to change my mind. (((())))
You wouldn't like to have a Dalton starting at qb? He's pretty consistent, man. Made Playoffs, first six years of career?
Rather just bum around with what we have been starting?
You are making zero sense.
Z
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Just for the record we were talking for a 1st AND a 4th. Somehow that second player keeps getting left out of the discussion.
Just for the record we were talking for a 1st AND a 4th. Somehow that second player keeps getting left out of the discussion.
That's because it doesn't matter.
If you like him for a first, you like him for a first and fourth.
Z
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We'll just have to agree to disagree here Z. Can we put this to bed for another month or two?
& if you didn't know (doubtful) Doolin' Dalton was a second round pick like Jimmy- AND has been a monumental playoff bust? I'm 1,000% convinced Bill is trying to pull off a heist on an unsuspecting team that's willing to ignore his past robberies.
Yeah, I sure hope our cold-blooded analytics crew will look at this from a value perspective- and take the long view if one of the other qbs in the upcoming draft is a better prospect than giving up a high pick for Jimmy. LOL,we're building through the draft don't ya know? We don't even know yet if my fave Mitch is even going to declare for the draft. And hell yes, right now I'd take Trubisky or Deshawn Watson (but not Kizer) over Jimmy. I'll report in more detail after their respective Bowl games- I reserve the right to change my mind. (((())))
You wouldn't like to have a Dalton starting at qb? He's pretty consistent, man. Made Playoffs, first six years of career?
Rather just bum around with what we have been starting?
You are making zero sense.
Z
Zombo said:
You wouldn't like to have a Dalton starting at qb? He's pretty consistent, man. Made Playoffs, first six years of career?
Rather just bum around with what we have been starting?
You are making zero sense.
Z
Hah!! You're suffering from low expectation syndrome. One of our guys makes the Pro Bowl (JT) he's a saint. Some guy makes multiple post seasons, he's more than that. Sure, if we had a qb who made the post season 6 years running, we'd declare him able to part Lake Erie and lead the wretched masses of Browns fans to the Promised Land- eventually. Win a Championship (LeBron)? Put a 70' poster on Tower City and erect the statue. (Worshiping Optional)
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Zombo said:
You wouldn't like to have a Dalton starting at qb? He's pretty consistent, man. Made Playoffs, first six years of career?
Rather just bum around with what we have been starting?
You are making zero sense.
Z
Hah!! You're suffering from low expectation syndrome. One of our guys makes the Pro Bowl (JT) he's a saint. Some guy makes multiple post seasons, he's more than that. Sure, if we had a qb who made the post season 6 years running, we'd declare him able to part Lake Erie and lead the wretched masses of Browns fans to the Promised Land- eventually. Win a Championship (LeBron)? Put a 70' poster on Tower City and erect the statue. (Worshiping Optional)
Hah!! You're suffering from low expectation syndrome. One of our guys makes the Pro Bowl (JT) he's a saint. Some guy makes multiple post seasons, he's more than that. Sure, if we had a qb who made the post season 6 years running, we'd declare him able to part Lake Erie and lead the wretched masses of Browns fans to the Promised Land- eventually. Win a Championship (LeBron)? Put a 70' poster on Tower City and erect the statue. (Worshiping Optional)
No, I am serious. You don't think it's worth a first rounder to get an Andy Dalton or Alex Smith you can pencil in there every week?
There are o only so many Mannings and Brady's ... Unless you think there is one in this draft ... Give me a solid QB that gives me a chance to win every year.
Z
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And I said that I don't know why everyone anoints the Patriots backup QB as the next Tom Brady.
He was the 62nd player drafted.
What's Ryan Mallet doing these days? It was the same story with him. People were saying that we would trade for him.
How did that backup role to brady work out for Hoyer?
How did that backup role to brady work out for Hoyer?
And what is Hoyer? He's basically a good backup.
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I think I wrote a similar post a while back, and people thought a first round draft pick was crazy.
And I said that I don't know why everyone anoints the Patriots backup QB as the next Tom Brady.
He was the 62nd player drafted.
What's Ryan Mallet doing these days? It was the same story with him. People were saying that we would trade for him.
And I said that I don't know why everyone anoints the Patriots backup QB as the next Tom Brady.
He was the 62nd player drafted.
What's Ryan Mallet doing these days? It was the same story with him. People were saying that we would trade for him.
Right, it didn't work out for Mallet, and it didn't really work out with Cassell either. But here's the thing I keep trying to explain...teams NEED QB'S. There really aren't "sure things" when it comes to NFL QB's, and about half of the NFL teams need a new QB. Demand vastly exceeds supply, so risks must be taken. Teams can't just say, "Oh well, I don't see anybody who is a home run, so I guess we'll just wait until one shows up." NFL coaches don't generally get 3 or 4 years guaranteed, so they HAVE to take risks for the most important position in professional sports. I'm not saying Garoppolo is the answer, but I am saying there will be a shitload of interest for him, and there will probably be a desperate team that offers an eye-popping deal for him.
Here's a link to someone who thinks it might be worth a shot.
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Id take him.....amazing to me how many people are snobbish on QB's, when we havent had a good one for 30 years....
Turn every stone.....and, based upon what I can see, JG is as good as we've sniffed in a long time....
Mallett, Hoyer, Cassel, Bullychick, etc have zero to do with anything, so I dont see why they keep coming up as some type of valid reason not to take JG.....
Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
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Zombo said:
I think Jimmy is a better prospect than those guys.
Bill drafts him in the second and gets a first and fourth ... good for him, I don't care about Bill's role in all this.
I want a good quarterback. Jimmy G has all the tools and has looked sharp on an NFL field when he has played.
Zombo
Then ask yourself.. Why would Bill trade him if he's so great?.. Brady can't sling it forever.
Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Then ask yourself.. Why would Bill trade him if he's so great?.. Brady can't sling it forever.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Then ask yourself.. Why would Bill trade him if he's so great?.. Brady can't sling it forever.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Send that suggestion to the FO. I like it especially if we go down to about, oh maybe #22 or so?
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Id take him.....amazing to me how many people are snobbish on QB's, when we havent had a good one for 30 years....
Turn every stone.....and, based upon what I can see, JG is as good as we've sniffed in a long time....
Mallett, Hoyer, Cassel, Bullychick, etc have zero to do with anything, so I dont see why they keep coming up as some type of valid reason not to take JG.....
Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
Id take him.....amazing to me how many people are snobbish on QB's, when we havent had a good one for 30 years....
Turn every stone.....and, based upon what I can see, JG is as good as we've sniffed in a long time....
Mallett, Hoyer, Cassel, Bullychick, etc have zero to do with anything, so I dont see why they keep coming up as some type of valid reason not to take JG.....
Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
Egg. Xactly.
Z
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Id take him.....amazing to me how many people are snobbish on QB's, when we havent had a good one for 30 years....
Turn every stone.....and, based upon what I can see, JG is as good as we've sniffed in a long time....
Mallett, Hoyer, Cassel, Bullychick, etc have zero to do with anything, so I dont see why they keep coming up as some type of valid reason not to take JG.....
Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
I don't think that learning from the past is a foolish thought process.
Yes, each player has to be evaluated separately and not JUST because of others in their position before them....but it just seems that every other freakin year the talking heads want to anoint the current Patriots backup QB as the next great thing.
JG was a VERY late 2nd round pick....has done very little...and talking heads are now putting a 1st round PLUS grade on him.
...and I DO agree that until you have a real franchise type starting QB you should always be looking at ways to get one. As I like to say, you've gotta keep swinging the bat until you hit one out when it comes to the QB. But ya can't be swinging at 'high & outside'.
I never liked Mallet or Hoyer (you here don't know that cos I wasn't at this forum then). Hoyer did better than I expected. JG, I don't have a good feel for. Haven't seen enough of him. I would proceed with caution.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Hah!! You're suffering from low expectation syndrome. One of our guys makes the Pro Bowl (JT) he's a saint. Some guy makes multiple post seasons, he's more than that. Sure, if we had a qb who made the post season 6 years running, we'd declare him able to part Lake Erie and lead the wretched masses of Browns fans to the Promised Land- eventually. Win a Championship (LeBron)? Put a 70' poster on Tower City and erect the statue. (Worshiping Optional)
No, I am serious. You don't think it's worth a first rounder to get an Andy Dalton or Alex Smith you can pencil in there every week?
There are o only so many Mannings and Brady's ... Unless you think there is one in this draft ... Give me a solid QB that gives me a chance to win every year.
Z
Zombo said:
No, I am serious. You don't think it's worth a first rounder to get an Andy Dalton or Alex Smith you can pencil in there every week?
There are o only so many Mannings and Brady's ... Unless you think there is one in this draft ... Give me a solid QB that gives me a chance to win every year.
Z
Alex Smith is NOT worth a first rounder and neither is Dalton.. I really don't think we could go very deep (In the playoffs) with these QB's who are marginal at best , in My view...
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Zombo said:
No, I am serious. You don't think it's worth a first rounder to get an Andy Dalton or Alex Smith you can pencil in there every week?
There are o only so many Mannings and Brady's ... Unless you think there is one in this draft ... Give me a solid QB that gives me a chance to win every year.
Z
Alex Smith is NOT worth a first rounder and neither is Dalton.. I really don't think we could go very deep (In the playoffs) with these QB's who are marginal at best , in My view...
Alex Smith is NOT worth a first rounder and neither is Dalton.. I really don't think we could go very deep (In the playoffs) with these QB's who are marginal at best , in My view...
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
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Alex Smith is NOT worth a first rounder and neither is Dalton.. I really don't think we could go very deep (In the playoffs) with these QB's who are marginal at best , in My view...
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
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Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Then ask yourself.. Why would Bill trade him if he's so great?.. Brady can't sling it forever.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
With the first round pick they think he's worth no less.
The Bradford deal set a very bad precedent. Just because the Vikings were desperate, doesn't mean the Browns have to follow suit.
I could live with a trade down into the 20s, pick up a future first, then take Jimmy. He's not worth a top 10 pick.
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Yeah it comes down to individual grades on individual players. Personally I don't believe Garrapolo to have higher potential than the players we could just draft with that pick, so I don't see the value in dropping a first on him. If it was a second and a third (or something along those lines) I'm a lot closer to being on board. At that point it'd be worth the risk because two cornerstones could be chosen.
Like it's been said however, some other team is likely to give the Pats the first they desire... It should just be later in the round.
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Zombo said:
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
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The Bradford deal set an awful precedent, but it just illustrates what a team will do to stabilize this position. To me, this situation is SLIGHTLY different than others because the Vikings lost their starting QB very close to the start of the season, and they thought they were a QB away from being a contender. We know now that they were wrong. Their offense was anemic, they lacked any big play potential, and they suffered nasty injuries to their RB and OL. They were zero fun to watch, and they basically tried to march the ball down the field with a bevy of 3 yard passes.
That deal hasn't worked out, but there are others that have, right? Look at what Alex Smith has accomplished in K.C. Weren't they like 2-14 before getting Smith and Andy Reid? What's their record since both of those guys got there? And there are people on this board that wouldn't want Alex Smith? He's not Aaron Rodgers by a long shot, but the guy can freaking play. I would love to see Garoppolo in Cleveland, but it's a huge risk, as we all know. We know we have to try SOMETHING, so is J.G. a better option than somebody like Mitch or Kizer? What if we can get J.G. for a second round pick? Then we'd have our two first rounders, plus our other 2nd rounder. So maybe we get Myles Garrett, Jamal Adams (safety from LSU), and Pocic from LSU (center), and then Garoppolo in the first two days of the draft? We give up a second rounder, and probably a 4th, but we have a stud pass rusher, safety, OL (who can play center and guard), and our potential QB. Of course, this all hinges on the deal for J.G. going down for a second round pick instead of a first, but whatever. Maybe we throw in Josh Gordon in the deal, and then Gordon goes to the Pats like Randy Moss did, and proceeds to blow the league up.
I keep hearing talk from Joe Thomas and others that indicates RG III will be coming back, and we shouldn't be surprised to see him back with our team.....starting. I guess I'll believe that when I see it, but Hue really does seem to think he can play. With RG III's injury history AND his inability to get rid of the ball, we obviously can't rely solely on him. Suffice to say, the Browns QB watch will be in full swing...yet again...and your guess is as good as mine to what takes place. Hue Jackson wants us to "trust him", and right now...I don't see any great options.
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