Jimmy says.....

BrownsnMopar

@flugel said:

Another great post from the world according to Mud!

In a league where the Jimmys and Joes are just as important as the X's and O's - Jamie Collins and T. Pryor need to be prioritized for getting new deals/contracts here like you mentioned w/ Kirksey and Bitonio. I don't understand the reluctance to do so. Am I missing something?

I guess the hope I'll cling to is Jimmuh's ability to stand up like a man and accept the blame you mentioned above - especially if actions speak louder than words. We've had leadership egos here in the past that refused to accept any accountability for the sinking ships.

I think there's too many Chiefs and not enough Indians in our current FO structure. If I was Haslam, I'd look to Ernie Accorsi for some consultation here. It would be money well spent.

I'm with both of you here, Mud and Flugel! My thought on last years PURGE, both free agent, and wiley veterans is Sushi and co. Think the return of compensatory picks are more value than the presence of said vets! This year they better man up and PAY UP! Another bother to me was the release of OL Cooper,WHY!??? I too Flugel am an Ernie Accorsi guy and feel his consulting would be a HUGE advantage!!!! CAN YOU HEAR THIS JIMMAH!!!

jrb12711

Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom to build themselves back up. I know it's not what YOU thought the plan was, but that was damn plan. You keep posting what people say like "coach speak" doesn't exist. The FO and crew weren't going to say the idea was to be terrible in order to get top picks, but it just was. You can keep feeling differently but frankly you would be wrong. I'd make a very reasonable argument from this draft we have good players/potential with:

Ogbah

Coleman (remember how he broke his hand and missed about half the season?)

Kessler (even as a viable back-up)

Kindred

DeValve

We also have Pryor, Collins, Kirksey, Thomas, and Bitonio and Greco coming back from injury.

And don't get me started on this FA bullshit again. I'm baffled at how many of you think this FO messed up SOOOO badly by letting the guys we did go. I'll give you schwartz, but do you mofos really think anyone else we let go was a terrible decision? Oh yeah, Gipson was a big fucking mistake (yikes).

The Denver Broncos were 4-12 before they drafted Von Miller. The Panthers were 1-15 before they drafted Cam Newton, and went to 6-10 before drafting Luke Kuechly. The point is, I feel sorry for you guys who thought this season was going to be better than it was. For anyone with critical thinking skills beyond a middle school level though it was clear this FO has a plan. In fact, they have the most coherent plan any FO has had since I have been watching this team play football. They still have to execute on this plan, but year one was a total success in what they were trying to do.

Flugel

@jrb12711 said:
Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom

You're a smart guy so think about it for a second. Upon hearing this plan to hit rock bottom to be carried out by a front office full of inexperienced rookies for an owner that has hired 3 HCs in 4 years - Hue Jackson decides it's so brilliant that he tells his agent to cancel the rest of his interviews scheduled and to tell those teams that already interviewed him he's not interested. Make sense? It shouldn't...

And what a terrific plan for a team that won only 3 of their last 21 games prior to this 1-15 season. Be careful what you approve of and wish for because you're getting it. Pass the champagne? Who's the Peyton Manning were getting for all the heroics?

D Bone

^ This

LondonBrown

What I take from the opening post is Jimmy says what he should say and it's "well duh" but if he hadn't said those things it would have been "he still doesn't get it". So, as we were then...

jrb12711

@flugel said:

You're a smart guy so think about it for a second. Upon hearing this plan to hit rock bottom to be carried out by a front office full of inexperienced rookies for an owner that has hired 3 HCs in 4 years - Hue Jackson decides it's so brilliant that he tells his agent to cancel the rest of his interviews scheduled and to tell those teams that already interviewed him he's not interested. Make sense? It shouldn't...

And what a terrific plan for a team that won only 3 of their last 21 games prior to this 1-15 season. Be careful what you approve of and wish for because you're getting it. Pass the champagne? Who's the Peyton Manning were getting for all the heroics?

Who says Hue was seriously being considered for any other job? You don't know Hue's motivation for jack shit, and neither do I. Despite the Browns being a factory of sadness there's only 32 of these jobs available in the entire world. You don't think it's crazy that Hue actually believes in what these guys are doing? If so tell me the lottery numbers for next drawing too.

I get the apprehension, but you get better in the NFL as an organization by building through the draft, period. We've fucked that up royally in the past, but I'm giving this group of people the same two years I'm giving every other organization. The difference is that I actually think these guys have a solid plan as opposed to other regimes seemingly drawing a name out of a hat. I don't know who that player will be, but I'm so tired of you guys looking for that "sure thing". That shit doesn't exist outside of maybe 1 player every 5 years. What I do know is we hold the keys to the car for the first time since 1999 and I'm going to let them drive it.

Flugel

@jrb12711 said:

Who says Hue was seriously being considered for any other job? - jrb12711

Not any of the ostriches you were hanging out with. Hue had interviews scheduled for Miami, SF, Cleveland and the NY Giants out of the 5 teams that were looking for a new Head Coach. Feel free to research and read before your next chest pounding adventure.

- Flugel

You don't know Hue's motivation for jack shit, and neither do I. - jrb12711

I'm not the one pretending Hue was all pumped up for 0-16 or 1-15 football while mocking others for not being able "to see the forest for the trees here." Furthermore, signing up to throw football games for a draft that doesn't have an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning waiting for us at #1 overall is not only absurd - but it lacks integrity. When players were handing Hue the game ball for the only win in front of an emotional Joe Thomas - I'm guessing they're a lot smarter than you're willing to give them credit for. - Flugel

Orion

I think our FO effed up with free agency.

I think they took the attitude that we were horrible with you so it's no big deal, us being without you. We'll just push the magic draft button.

Not only did we not replace the guys we let walk (as Mud points out), but they sent a message to the free agent market that Hey, don't go to Cleveland - they won't value you anyway.

At LEAST Schwartz should've been signed as a sign of good faith.

---

I remember, from another board, people saying We don't need those guys. We sucked WITH them. And my answer was always the same, We CAN suck worse than we did.

We were such a bad team that I saw NO ADVANTAGE AT ALL to letting 4 STARTERS walk, creating MORE holes to fill. WE HAD PLENTY OF HOLES ALREADY.

jrb12711

@flugel said:

@jrb12711 said:

Who says Hue was seriously being considered for any other job? - jrb12711

Not any of the ostriches you were hanging out with. Hue had interviews scheduled for Miami, SF, Cleveland and the NY Giants out of the 5 teams that were looking for a new Head Coach. Feel free to research and read before your next chest pounding adventure.

- Flugel

You don't know Hue's motivation for jack shit, and neither do I. - jrb12711

I'm not the one pretending Hue was all pumped up for 0-16 or 1-15 football while mocking others for not being able "to see the forest for the trees here." Furthermore, signing up to throw football games for a draft that doesn't have an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning waiting for us at #1 overall is not only absurd - but it lacks integrity. When players were handing Hue the game ball for the only win in front of an emotional Joe Thomas - I'm guessing they're a lot smarter than you're willing to give them credit for. - Flugel

The Rooney rule requires each team to interview a minority coach. I'll give you I don't if those teams had interviewed a minority coach before Hue, but maybe he realized Cleveland was the only one with a serious opportunity. Again, you don't know jack shit about his motivation and neither do I. To make a baseless assumption, well you know what they say about assuming right? I really, really don't understand how that's difficult to wrap your mind around.

I don't know what else to say about this all really. Of course guys want to win, and the goal is to win football games. But this FO made it clear from day one (and yes not with literal words but with actions) that this season was a rebuild season. A true rebuild means starting from the top, and that's literally what the Browns are doing. Of course no is fucking pumped about a bad season but please, please tell me where I said that (I didn't). I'm just tired of you guys having this ridiculous idea of the season being more than what it was supposed to be-a rough around the edges rebuild.

hoorta

@topdawg31 said:
he didn't get near the money he thought he was worth is my point.

He got a decent offer from the Browns, and then told the Chiefs to up it by 50 cents, and he walked. $33 million for a right tackle isn't bad money.

wargograw

@hoorta said:

He got a decent offer from the Browns, and then told the Chiefs to up it by 50 cents, and he walked. $33 million for a right tackle isn't bad money.

Which explains why we couldn't sign him, doesn't it?

flyingfooldoug

It all boils down to one thing. Jimmy only has continuity left to sell to the public. He's gotta put a shine on the turd now with a completely unproven system and using non football people. What a shyster! The math is there and it's simple. Worst record in history = ???? If there was improvement at the end of the season it must have been mixed amongst 3 turnovers on the goal line in the last game. And not much to show outa 14 draft picks. The team should be renamed.... Haslam's hillbillies. I

jiggins7919

This is the first time I've EVER heard our owner and our management say we'll be aggressive in free agency. Can you remember the last time you heard that? That tells me it's go time. We even said that we're going to attempt to sign both Pryor and Collins and not use the tag on them. I don't even remember the last time we said something like THAT. Yes, there was a WHOLE lot of "DUH! NO SHIT, JIMMY!" in his statement, but I find it refreshing. We're NOT going to let talent walk out of here without trying our hardest. And I believe what I hear.

I've read some of our posters here say they are fine with letting Pryor walk. I think that's a bad move. Can you IMAGINE the backlash our management would take if Pryor goes to the Patriots, Panthers, or Cowboys and blows up? It would prolong the narrative of "the Browns let talent walk and can't keep their talent." Try and remember that no other team wanted Pryor, and they even tried him out. Hell, the freaking Patriots tried him out and didn't want him. So they AREN'T perfect. It completely shocks me that the Patriots didn't sign Pryor because they don't have a big physical wide receiver. They obviously have Gronk, but his injuries have to be a major concern. What does Pryor do on a team like the Pats? It boggles the mind. We developed Pryor. We saw the potential. We took the chance...and we can't let anybody else reap the reward of our hard work. I just read a report that the Browns are over $100 million dollars under the cap. You sign Pryor, and you do it immediately.

TexasAg1969

@jiggins7919 said:

This is the first time I've EVER heard our owner and our management say we'll be aggressive in free agency. Can you remember the last time you heard that? That tells me it's go time. We even said that we're going to attempt to sign both Pryor and Collins and not use the tag on them. I don't even remember the last time we said something like THAT. Yes, there was a WHOLE lot of "DUH! NO SHIT, JIMMY!" in his statement, but I find it refreshing. We're NOT going to let talent walk out of here without trying our hardest. And I believe what I hear.

I've read some of our posters here say they are fine with letting Pryor walk. I think that's a bad move. Can you IMAGINE the backlash our management would take if Pryor goes to the Patriots, Panthers, or Cowboys and blows up? It would prolong the narrative of "the Browns let talent walk and can't keep their talent." Try and remember that no other team wanted Pryor, and they even tried him out. Hell, the freaking Patriots tried him out and didn't want him. So they AREN'T perfect. It completely shocks me that the Patriots didn't sign Pryor because they don't have a big physical wide receiver. They obviously have Gronk, but his injuries have to be a major concern. What does Pryor do on a team like the Pats? It boggles the mind. We developed Pryor. We saw the potential. We took the chance...and we can't let anybody else reap the reward of our hard work. I just read a report that the Browns are over $100 million dollars under the cap. You sign Pryor, and you do it immediately.

Ah, they also have Bennett who is even bigger than Gronk. And he is one we should go after in FA.

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:

But the real questions are,

what did they do to replace those guys????....and....

What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???

They sifted for gold, and
nothing.

Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.

Book it...

@jrb12711 said:

Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom to build themselves back up.

We also have Pryor, Collins, Kirksey, Thomas, and Bitonio and Greco coming back from injury.

Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.

gftChris

What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???

nothing.

I'd argue that trading for a guy like Collins, in the full knowledge that keeping him would cost a ton, is *something* to change the perception of FAs coming in for a visit. Cleveland is at least interested in acquiring talent and willing to spend, if not overpay.

Tour2ma

Point taken, but I was looking at our on-field performance. A 1-15 record does not exactly make a great welcome mat.

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

They sifted for gold, and

nothing.

Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.

Book it...

Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.

"Appropriate" Tour to me means- the anal-litycs guys are going to look at it from a cost\reward standpoint. We're not overpaying for where we have the guy rated.

We not only hit rock bottom- whether it was intentional or not, but when we got there, the Browns got out the heavy equipment and started digging for China.

medicineman

The season tickets should be a lot less with 1 game being in London and with the pure shit play we did this year, SHOW US SOME W's and then we can talk bout raising the ticket and popcorn prices

dr. laker

In the 53 years I've followed this team, I've always had confidence that the Browns were trying to follow some sort of cohesive plan in team building. Even in the early 70s, when players were actively trying to get out of Cleveland, I thought the team had an idea and gameplan that they were trying to follow . . .

Until 1999.

In the past 18 seasons, I've seen nothing to convince me that anyone involved in the FO has any idea about what they're supposed to be doing. Al Lerner's crew was ridiculous, finishing last in the division 10 times in 14 years. Haslam is proving to be even worse, finish last on a declining curve - the franchise is in worse shape now than it was when he bought it.

Haslam needs to cash out and sell the team.