Browns' 2017 offseason plan
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Allen isn't even in the top 20 in the ranking I looked at. His stats are pedestrian. 56% completion rate, Trubisky blows him away in TD\Int ratio. This in a second tier conference. As you infer AG, major project.
You can't judge a player a QB based on his stats especially at the college level !
Yeah Trubisky might be a better player right now but he won't be available at the top of the second round and I don't want to reach for him earlier.
Plus we said the same things about Wentz last year. It's all about traits not stats.
You can't judge a player a QB based on his stats especially at the college level !
Yeah Trubisky might be a better player right now but he won't be available at the top of the second round and I don't want to reach for him earlier.
Plus we said the same things about Wentz last year. It's all about traits not stats.
Except, of course, it would not be a reach. When are you Bozos going to climb off your clown bus?
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Allen isn't even in the top 20 in the ranking I looked at. His stats are pedestrian. 56% completion rate, Trubisky blows him away in TD\Int ratio. This in a second tier conference. As you infer AG, major project.
You can't judge a player a QB based on his stats especially at the college level !
Yeah Trubisky might be a better player right now but he won't be available at the top of the second round and I don't want to reach for him earlier.
Plus we said the same things about Wentz last year. It's all about traits not stats.
You can't judge a player a QB based on his stats especially at the college level !
Yeah Trubisky might be a better player right now but he won't be available at the top of the second round and I don't want to reach for him earlier.
Plus we said the same things about Wentz last year. It's all about traits not stats.
Well, Allen at the top of the second is an even bigger reach IMHO than taking Trubisky #1 overall. You sure can judge a guy by his stats at the college level. Unless his receivers have hands of stone- the completion % is a big red flag. I've come to the opinion- you're either accurate by the time you hit college, or you're not. Our pal Griffin still struggles with it after 4 years in the NFL. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
I'll try to be fair- Walter Football doesn't even rate him as a prospect- yet. He's #9 here. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1007134&draftyear=2019&genpos=QB That screams 4-5th round project. I did take a quick look at some of his highlights, and on first glance reminded me of a more mobile Joe Flacco.
If Mitch stunk in his bowl game (not exactly) Josh was worse in his. Both of them may not even declare making this a moot point. You can start Camp Allen, but it's going to be mighty lonely in there.
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You can't judge a player a QB based on his stats especially at the college level !
Yeah Trubisky might be a better player right now but he won't be available at the top of the second round and I don't want to reach for him earlier.
Plus we said the same things about Wentz last year. It's all about traits not stats.
Well, Allen at the top of the second is an even bigger reach IMHO than taking Trubisky #1 overall. You sure can judge a guy by his stats at the college level. Unless his receivers have hands of stone- the completion % is a big red flag. I've come to the opinion- you're either accurate by the time you hit college, or you're not. Our pal Griffin still struggles with it after 4 years in the NFL. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
I'll try to be fair- Walter Football doesn't even rate him as a prospect- yet. He's #9 here. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1007134&draftyear=2019&genpos=QB That screams 4-5th round project. I did take a quick look at some of his highlights, and on first glance reminded me of a more mobile Joe Flacco.
If Mitch stunk in his bowl game (not exactly) Josh was worse in his. Both of them may not even declare making this a moot point. You can start Camp Allen, but it's going to be mighty lonely in there.
Well, Allen at the top of the second is an even bigger reach IMHO than taking Trubisky #1 overall. You sure can judge a guy by his stats at the college level. Unless his receivers have hands of stone- the completion % is a big red flag. I've come to the opinion- you're either accurate by the time you hit college, or you're not. Our pal Griffin still struggles with it after 4 years in the NFL. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
I'll try to be fair- Walter Football doesn't even rate him as a prospect- yet. He's #9 here. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1007134&draftyear=2019&genpos=QB That screams 4-5th round project. I did take a quick look at some of his highlights, and on first glance reminded me of a more mobile Joe Flacco.
If Mitch stunk in his bowl game (not exactly) Josh was worse in his. Both of them may not even declare making this a moot point. You can start Camp Allen, but it's going to be mighty lonely in there.
Matt Miller had him at number 3 to Chicago and his 16th player overall
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Here is the thing. We have gone through off seasons where FO and coaches have said the following about a back up/situational player "X player is going to show up for us next season. This guy can be a pro bowler. Amazing potential and ability." Talk like that is all fine and good but how often has it worked out? I get that we want some of these young guys to continue to improve, and eventually take over these starting positions, but we also know that just handing starting positions to players doesn't work out. Sign these guys some competition. The one thing that I will not count on is players like Greco, Binito, whoever our center was Vs Washington, making it all the way through a 16 game season. They currently show that they can't and they shouldn't be counted on to do so.
Sign me at least 1 starting caliber offensive lineman (please god center) and sign a few more for good depth.
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Well, Allen at the top of the second is an even bigger reach IMHO than taking Trubisky #1 overall. You sure can judge a guy by his stats at the college level. Unless his receivers have hands of stone- the completion % is a big red flag. I've come to the opinion- you're either accurate by the time you hit college, or you're not. Our pal Griffin still struggles with it after 4 years in the NFL. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen
I'll try to be fair- Walter Football doesn't even rate him as a prospect- yet. He's #9 here. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1007134&draftyear=2019&genpos=QB That screams 4-5th round project. I did take a quick look at some of his highlights, and on first glance reminded me of a more mobile Joe Flacco.
If Mitch stunk in his bowl game (not exactly) Josh was worse in his. Both of them may not even declare making this a moot point. You can start Camp Allen, but it's going to be mighty lonely in there.
Matt Miller had him at number 3 to Chicago and his 16th player overall
Matt Miller had him at number 3 to Chicago and his 16th player overall
With all due respect- then he's nuts. From ninth rated qb to #16 overall? get real. At least Wentz resembled a semi finished product, Allen does not. I really hope some team is dumb enough to take him top 10, because that moves down defensive prospects for the Brown @ #12.
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Ironically, our trenches are in better shape than many of us realize. Can we get better? Of course. Can we improve our DEPTH? Oh yeah. However, we are getting Bitonio back at guard, and Greco back at the other one (hopefully...those injuries are no joke). Thomas is obviously coming back. RT is pretty much up in the air, but I found it interesting that our owner specifically mentioned Shon Coleman as one of our young building blocks. Anybody else notice that? Shon wasn't awesome or anything, but he did do VERY well in run blocking. I'm serious guys, he had a couple of pancake blocks that were vicious. Shon wasn't supposed to play much this year because he was recovering from some serious injuries and illness, and he also had to learn a completely new blocking scheme. Apparently what he did in college was vastly different, and he had a ton to learn. That being said, I REALLY wanted him to play SOME, and he did! I'd say our biggest question mark is at center, and it's safe to say we're moving ON from Cam Erving. Now, Cam DID look much more comfortable at RT than he ever did at center, and that's a good thing. Yes, he got his ass torched on that one sack, but try and remember the other team has guys that are pros too. Also keep in mind that Austin Reiter played a pretty solid game in his one start at center, so it's possible we already have our guy. I don't think our OL is in as bad of shape as people may think.
On the flip side, our defensive line appears to be getting a boost with the return of Desmond Bryant. Bryant visited the team last week and was medically cleared to return to football. Keep in mind that he sadly lead our team in sacks last year with 6 from the DT position. Lord, did we need him this year or WHAT? And so many fans seem to be caught up in what defense we're playing. Yes, we play a "3-4" defense, but pro football focus said we ran a 4-3 about 35% of the time (I think...can't find that stat at the moment). So while we're a 3-4, we actually play 4-3 a ton. Something tells me we'll play even more 4-3 if we happen to draft a certain DE from Texas. You'd have Ogbah on one side, Garrett on the other, and Shelton and Bryant in the middle. That's not too shabby.
Better name for the thread would have been "Tiott's 2017 offseason plan".
Ironically, our trenches are in better shape than many of us realize. Can we get better? Of course. Can we improve our DEPTH? Oh yeah. However, we are getting Bitonio back at guard, and Greco back at the other one (hopefully...those injuries are no joke). Thomas is obviously coming back. RT is pretty much up in the air, but I found it interesting that our owner specifically mentioned Shon Coleman as one of our young building blocks. Anybody else notice that? Shon wasn't awesome or anything, but he did do VERY well in run blocking. I'm serious guys, he had a couple of pancake blocks that were vicious. Shon wasn't supposed to play much this year because he was recovering from some serious injuries and illness, and he also had to learn a completely new blocking scheme. Apparently what he did in college was vastly different, and he had a ton to learn. That being said, I REALLY wanted him to play SOME, and he did! I'd say our biggest question mark is at center, and it's safe to say we're moving ON from Cam Erving. Now, Cam DID look much more comfortable at RT than he ever did at center, and that's a good thing. Yes, he got his ass torched on that one sack, but try and remember the other team has guys that are pros too. Also keep in mind that Austin Reiter played a pretty solid game in his one start at center, so it's possible we already have our guy. I don't think our OL is in as bad of shape as people may think.
On the flip side, our defensive line appears to be getting a boost with the return of Desmond Bryant.
The beauty of our line situations is that should we add a starter it pushes a past starter to a back up role... AKA instant depth.
Arguably the need is greater on the D-side, but either Garrett or Allen in combo with Bryant's return set us up well there. I favor Allen and the 3-4 because it sets 3 players in their best positions. Danny is a great NT in the making.
O-side Shon is the key. If he finally grabs the RT slot with both hands everything else falls into place. His late showing was impressive... best of the year. So pending Greco's successful recovery, not a given, we will have three viable candidates to fill our Center void. Still I add a value pick to the mix. There will be Day 3 players that will fill the bill.
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Yep, I really like the idea of day 3 OL depth. I have to say, if the rumors are right about Tyrod Taylor separating from the Bills, I could really see him starting for us next year while we groom a rookie. I don't think Taylor would send us directly to the damn Super Bowl or anything, but he could run the offense that Hue loves quite well (in my distorted, weird mind). He's very similar to RG III, but he's had two seasons in a row where he produced decent results. He's far from perfect, but I like him better than Robert, that's for damn sure. The guy had like 500 yards rushing as a QB, and that's no joke. His passing touchdowns were down, but he didn't exactly have terrific receivers either. The more I think about it, the more I like it. The Eagles pick falling to #12 really hurts us because we don't know which QB prospects will be there. As of right now (and it's VERY early), it doesn't look like Mitch, Watson, or Kizer will be there...but who knows. I'd really like for Watson to be available at #12, and for us to take Myles Garrett at #1. A lot of people will say it's "RG III all over again!", but I don't think that's true at all.
Edit: I just read that the Bills have an option they can pick up on Tyrod, but it will cost them "approximately $30 million". I'm not sure how the contract breaks down, or how that's even freaking possible, but that's what the article said. With the Bills benching Tyrod at the end of the year, a divorce appears likely. I say make a push for him as soon as possible. It's someone who can keep the seat warm until a younger guy is ready. And it's not like Taylor is awful either. 2015 he had 20 td's and 6 picks I think, with probably 4 or 5 rushing td's. 2016 he had 17 passing td's, and 6 picks, with around 6 rushing td's I think. I think we could get him at a solid price, and he's somebody that I think can help us immediately.
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I hear you, but I don't really see the value in dating Tyrod for a year or so though. I'd rather move on from the used QB market.
As for the Eagles pick... we'd be sweating the same amount of QB sweat if it had stayed at #9. The only QB-needing team that slipped in front of us was BUF. There were already 2 of them at #2 and #3 overall in SF and da Bears...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I hear you, but I don't really see the value in dating Tyrod for a year or so though. I'd rather move on from the used QB market.
As for the Eagles pick... we'd be sweating the same amount of QB sweat if it had stayed at #9. The only QB-needing team that slipped in front of us was BUF. There were already 2 of them at #2 and #3 overall in SF and da Bears...
I hear you, but I don't really see the value in dating Tyrod for a year or so though. I'd rather move on from the used QB market.
As for the Eagles pick... we'd be sweating the same amount of QB sweat if it had stayed at #9. The only QB-needing team that slipped in front of us was BUF. There were already 2 of them at #2 and #3 overall in SF and da Bears...
Make that three with the Jets-Jets-Jets @ #6. unless you think Fitzpatrick and Hackenberg are really going to turn things around for them.
I've been saying all along if the Browns are going Franchise QB in the first round and have determined in their minds he's the real deal- they're going to have to take him #1 overall- because odds are at least two of them are going to be gone by the time #12 rolls around. Could be even more if the Titans who draft @ #5 & have Mariotta, don't see anyone they really like, and are willing to trade that slot for another pick bonanza to a team desperate for a qb.
BTW Tour- I can't see us moving the #1 overall, but I have a feeling #12 might be in play for the right price. If we take Garrett @ #1, crap- go for Hooker @ #12, and may as well go QB bargain shopping in the second round. You know how much I hate that idea. LOL, or go for the quadirfecta- trade up (or down) to #22- right now that pick belongs to the Dolphins, and draft another bust qb.
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h,
I've never said never to trading down any pick... and that was before this FO. But I do think our approach to this draft will be different. We're ready for elite impact additions and I see us adding two of them at 1 and 12.
While there are more "impact players" deeper into round one, the elite factor doesn't last much passed 12...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
h,
I've never said never to trading down any pick... and that was before this FO. But I do think our approach to this draft will be different. We're ready for elite impact additions and I see us adding two of them at 1 and 12.
While there are more "impact players" deeper into round one, the elite factor doesn't last much passed 12...
h,
I've never said never to trading down any pick... and that was before this FO. But I do think our approach to this draft will be different. We're ready for elite impact additions and I see us adding two of them at 1 and 12.
While there are more "impact players" deeper into round one, the elite factor doesn't last much passed 12...
The thought just occurred to me Tour regarding the Titans picking @ #5. If there's someone still on the board we think we gotta have, Swapping first round picks and giving them their second back will almost do it.
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h,
I've never said never to trading down any pick... and that was before this FO. But I do think our approach to this draft will be different. We're ready for elite impact additions and I see us adding two of them at 1 and 12.
While there are more "impact players" deeper into round one, the elite factor doesn't last much passed 12...
The thought just occurred to me Tour regarding the Titans picking @ #5. If there's someone still on the board we think we gotta have, Swapping first round picks and giving them their second back will almost do it.
The thought just occurred to me Tour regarding the Titans picking @ #5. If there's someone still on the board we think we gotta have, Swapping first round picks and giving them their second back will almost do it.
that would certainly let us draft Garrett/Allen at 1 and then a QB. Wouldn't be the worst idea if they're committed to one of the QB's coming out this year.
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The Wyo. QB is a huge reach. Level of competition a major factor. If you want a better reach @ QB it would be Kelly, who has a better bloodline and far better competition. Or Kizer if he is still there.
The Wyo. QB is a huge reach. Level of competition a major factor. If you want a better reach @ QB it would be Kelly, who has a better bloodline and far better competition. Or Kizer if he is still there.
Yep. If I take a QB a little down the line, it would be Kelly or Kizer, but I think Kizer is gone in the 1st round. I think Kelly could be a steal in the 3rd or 4th.
Mike
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The Wyo. QB is a huge reach. Level of competition a major factor. If you want a better reach @ QB it would be Kelly, who has a better bloodline and far better competition. Or Kizer if he is still there.
Yep. If I take a QB a little down the line, it would be Kelly or Kizer, but I think Kizer is gone in the 1st round. I think Kelly could be a steal in the 3rd or 4th.
Mike
Yep. If I take a QB a little down the line, it would be Kelly or Kizer, but I think Kizer is gone in the 1st round. I think Kelly could be a steal in the 3rd or 4th.
Mike
Yeah...I watch a lot of the Mountain West because of SDSU and Im out on the wyoming QB. He's not that good.
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h,
I've never said never to trading down any pick... and that was before this FO. But I do think our approach to this draft will be different. We're ready for elite impact additions and I see us adding two of them at 1 and 12.
While there are more "impact players" deeper into round one, the elite factor doesn't last much passed 12...
The thought just occurred to me Tour regarding the Titans picking @ #5. If there's someone still on the board we think we gotta have, Swapping first round picks and giving them their second back will almost do it.
The thought just occurred to me Tour regarding the Titans picking @ #5. If there's someone still on the board we think we gotta have, Swapping first round picks and giving them their second back will almost do it.
By any chart I know of it more than does it.
While the JJ chart is pretty close. The problem rises from the Harvard chart where the #12 (283.6) plus the #33 (175.2) is well in excess of the value of the #5 (357.9).
So where we were smiling broadly being on the receiving end of that deal, we'd be gagging on the reverse. If JAX added their 4th rounder, then that would essentially balance the deal.
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