Possible Next Browns QB
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Tour, no apologies required as ESPN and CincyJungle.com may yet be proven wrong. But some of what they're saying makes sense. For example, the Bengals didn't let McCarron practice during his rookie season even after he was eligible to do so. Rather, they let him attend meetings but never medically cleared him to practice, and that latter point seems to be where things get fuzzy. At the time it just seemed like they were simply being cautious with a an injured player, but now it seems things may not have been so simple after all. There may have been a method to their madness.
It should also be noted that McCarron has never complained about the way his rookie season was handled. He may or may not have accrued a season towards RFA, but he did get paid, the Bengals covered his medical expenses, and McCarron had access to professional medical and training staff staffs during his rehab. To be fair, he did express disappointment about the way he fell to the 5th round after being told he'd likely be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but post draft he seemed to realize just how close he came to being undrafted.
Also, if you bothered looking on overthecap.com you may have noticed McCarron's 2017 salary is even cheaper than I claimed. According to Sportrac.com the actual figure is just 620k, not the rounded up 750k I used. Quite frankly, all I was trying to do is show how acquiring McCarron was less expensive than Garrapalo.
Last, the Bengals may indeed play the waiting game with McCarron but they've sent mixed signals. Marvin Lewis has repeatedly said the Bengals weren't interested in trading McCarron, but that only prompted owner Mike Brown to come out of hibernation last year to utter the immortal words...."Not so fast." Perhaps that explains why Lewis didn't flatly reject the idea of a trade the last time he was asked.
Tour, no apologies required as ESPN and CincyJungle.com may yet be proven wrong. But some of what they're saying makes sense. For example, the Bengals didn't let McCarron practice during his rookie season even after he was eligible to do so. Rather, they let him attend meetings but never medically cleared him to practice, and that latter point seems to be where things get fuzzy. At the time it just seemed like they were simply being cautious with a an injured player, but now it seems things may not have been so simple after all. There may have been a method to their madness.
Also, if you bothered looking on overthecap.com you may have noticed McCarron's 2017 salary is even cheaper than I claimed. According to Sportrac.com the actual figure is just 620k, not the rounded up 750k I used. Quite frankly, all I was trying to do is show how acquiring McCarron was less expensive than Garrapalo.
Last, the Bengals may indeed play the waiting game with McCarron but they've sent mixed signals. Marvin Lewis has repeatedly said the Bengals weren't interested in trading McCarron, but that only prompted owner Mike Brown to come out of hibernation last year to utter the immortal words...."Not so fast." Perhaps that explains why Lewis didn't flatly reject the idea of a trade the last time he was asked.
Too late... I only offer one apology per poster and now you've had yours...
It is hard for me to believe the NLFPA hasn't injected themselves into Cinci's handling of AJ.Not seeing a $620k figure on his overthecap page, but no matter as I got the point you were making. There's a decent difference between a R2 rookie's contract and a R5's...
Precisely. That's exactly where I am about the trade idea within the division.
My McCarron idea required patience in lieu of knee jerking. We can wait a year.
I think Kelly has some good football worth tapping if the right team takes him. Wasn't that the case with Dak Prescott from another Mississippi school? If we take him with the understanding we don't have to race him out there before he's ready or our oline is ready to protect the QB - we could be the right place.
Some years there just isn't a first round QB; and we've learned that the hard way every damn time we tried to pretend there was...
While within the division would not be a first choice, it's a choice. So it depends on the premium we might offer. How much of a premium would I be willing to pay? Not much is about as far as I can quantify it. But I think that #58 mid-2nd rounder I maxed out at in my earlier hypothetical would be a pretty tasty inducement.
And I agree we can wait a year. It fits with my impression that RG did enough, showed enough late to get another shot in '17. Do I think he's the solution? Should be obvious by now that's a "big, fat no."
Ditto on Cahd and lessons learned... or should have been learned about the dangers of need.
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As much as I want to solve the eternal deficiency at QB, I can't see passing on the franchise level defenders available at 1. Part of me (the eternal optimist part, probably) wouldn't mind handing the keys to Kessler and seeing what he can do in year 2.
As much as I want to solve the eternal deficiency at QB, I can't see passing on the franchise level defenders available at 1. Part of me (the eternal optimist part, probably) wouldn't mind handing the keys to Kessler and seeing what he can do in year 2.
Yup... goes back to player evaluations. I see no more sure-fire pick than Allen and he fills a need. While I see no sure-fire QBs, the rarest of the rare draft commodity, if I thought there was one who came close, whose odds of success were very high, then I'd roll the dice with him.
Still work to do, but not seeing one yet and simply being "the best in the class" isn't good enough... not even when it is "merely" the #1 overall at risk.
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I wouldn't mind taking Kizer at 12, if he's there. My gut feeling is that he will start to rise on draft boards throughout the pre-draft process. The kid is a bit of a project, but he has all the tools.
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So did RGIII... except seeing the field, quickly. I think Kizer is like that.
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Why not just tough it out with Kessler or RG3? I understand that RG3 is fragile but we need to build a solid O line first. Both of these guys know the play book they are getting to know each other as well. Let's get Pryor signed, Sign another #1 wide out from FA or trade for 1 then go from there. I don't think a QB is the key bit a solid O line is.
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Why not just tough it out with Kessler or RG3? I understand that RG3 is fragile but we need to build a solid O line first. Both of these guys know the play book they are getting to know each other as well. Let's get Pryor signed, Sign another #1 wide out from FA or trade for 1 then go from there. I don't think a QB is the key bit a solid O line is.
Why not just tough it out with Kessler or RG3? I understand that RG3 is fragile but we need to build a solid O line first. Both of these guys know the play book they are getting to know each other as well. Let's get Pryor signed, Sign another #1 wide out from FA or trade for 1 then go from there. I don't think a QB is the key bit a solid O line is.
I'm starting to think we should go with Kessler in 2017 as well. If we can give him the margin of error from our defense that other QBs in this league get from their defense, we might not always be behind 7-0 just 2-3 minutes after the coin toss we defer.
We have the picks in this coming draft to improve our defense - if used right...
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Just don't see a "field stretcher" in Kess... frees the Safeties to get too involved in the hit parade around the LOS.
Just don't see a "field stretcher" in Kess... frees the Safeties to get too involved in the hit parade around the LOS.
Apparently neither did Hue since he benched him for not stretching the field if I recall correctly. That would tell me that in practice/preparation he was able to do so, but in games he did not, thus leading to the benching.
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Tour, I can't think what the NFLPA would complain about regarding the way McCarron was handled as a rookie. The player in question was paid and his medical expenses were covered despite never being active or practicing. If that means the player doesn't accrue a season towards FA, well...that doesn't seem like a bad bargain or trade off. Most teams would have completely removed from their draft boards any player unlikely to contribute or even practice for them so it's the player who benefits the most and it's the team who assumes all of the risk. For a more recent example, look at the Cowboys selection of Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith. Smith may never play a down in the NFL. So which party assumed all of the risk? And which party benefited? So ask yourself, does Dallas choose to assume that risk if Smith accrues a season towards FA for each year he rehabs?
The McCarron example isn't THAT unique. In fact, the Bengals have a DT, Brandon Thompson, who had a serious knee injury but signed a 1-year FA contract last season. Because Thompson was never active or practiced last season his 1-year contract rolls over to this season intact. There's no negotiation.
Finally, the only reason we're still talking about this is precisely because not accruing a season towards FA makes McCarron a more attractive trade asset. As I've noted, any team looking for a new starting QB could trade for McCarron and give him a two year audition for peanuts.
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Roll with RG III, Kessler and (X) this year. Instead of selecting a QB early in the draft, the Brown's glaring defensive needs should be addressed - particularly since it is very deep with defensive talent and offers the Browns quality players through the first two rounds. Josh Allen from WY, if he returns to college this year, should be the QB target in 2018.
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Tour, I can't think what the NFLPA would complain about regarding the way McCarron was handled as a rookie. The player in question was paid and his medical expenses were covered despite never being active or practicing. If that means the player doesn't accrue a season towards FA, well...that doesn't seem like a bad bargain or trade off. Most teams would have completely removed from their draft boards any player unlikely to contribute or even practice for them so it's the player who benefits the most and it's the team who assumes all of the risk. For a more recent example, look at the Cowboys selection of Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith. Smith may never play a down in the NFL. So which party assumed all of the risk? And which party benefited? So ask yourself, does Dallas choose to assume that risk if Smith accrues a season towards FA for each year he rehabs?
The McCarron example isn't THAT unique. In fact, the Bengals have a DT, Brandon Thompson, who had a serious knee injury but signed a 1-year FA contract last season. Because Thompson was never active or practiced last season his 1-year contract rolls over to this season intact. There's no negotiation.
Finally, the only reason we're still talking about this is precisely because not accruing a season towards FA makes McCarron a more attractive trade asset. As I've noted, any team looking for a new starting QB could trade for McCarron and give him a two year audition for peanuts.
Tour, I can't think what the NFLPA would complain about regarding the way McCarron was handled as a rookie. The player in question was paid and his medical expenses were covered despite never being active or practicing.
The McCarron example isn't THAT unique.
I get what you're saying, but when a player is stashed and fails to accrue a season, even if it's a "benign" situation, I can't imagine the NFLPA not getting involved.
And the more common the situation, to my mind, the more likely it would be for the NFLPA to get involved.
It's all about the money...
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Bridgewater lol, he sucks when he's 100% healthy let alone now
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Tour, you guys seem pretty happy when a player doesn't accrue a season towards FA when it's Josh Gordon. So yeah, how many times has your team taken advantage of the same kind of wrinkle? And you can't even claim Gordon was injured...unless we're talking about self-inflicted head wounds. Plus, I'm pretty sure your team was allowed to restrict and control Gordon's FA rights at least once after allowing him to practice with the team.
In the McCarron example the wrinkle is used strategically as an incentive encouraging teams to draft injured players. In the Gordon example the wrinkle is used as strictly as damage control. A way for a team to continue controlling the salvage value of a damaged asset it never should have drafted in the first place.
But we're getting sidetracked. Because whether you deem the strategy to be fair or unfair the end result is what's important. And there's the rub because all things being equal all things are NOT equal between Garrapalo and McCarron when discussing salary, free agency, the draft picks needed to acquire, OR in the amount of experience each QB already has running your teams offense.
The shiny apple comparison only goes so far.
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Not sure my surprise over any action taken or left untaken is a statement of my stance, but whatever...
The Gordon situation is entirely different since he was place on the Commisioners list... twice.
And for the record the NFLPA did chime in when we suspended him for the final game of 2015 for being late to one meeting too many... a game that would have been his critical 6th.
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Right, but it's entirely different only because one use of the tactic is as an incentive and the other is used as damage control or punishment. Small wonder the NFLPA has a bigger problem with anything that delays a veteran players direct pathway to FA than an incentive that encourages teams to draft and start paying college players before they're healthy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Hue said flatly Gordon was no longer in Cleveland's future plans, right? But the team hasn't released him, and probably won't until they've exhausted their quest to get a draft pick in return. And the same is true for Johnny Feetball, right? Your team chooses to restrict the movement of potential FAs it no longer wants because it can, and because it doesn't cost them a thing to do so. By comparison the Bengals haven't blocked McCarron from anything, paid for his surgery and rehab, paid his salary when they knew he couldn't play OR practice, will happily continue paying his salary if he's retained, and seem willing to grant his trade request now, before his contract expires, if another NFL team will meet their trade demands.
So which teams actions seem punitive?
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I really liked Jimmy G when he came out. Wanted the browns to take him but didn't expect the pats to take him as high as they did.
I'd be fine with him, anybody who would give up the #12 pick for him is mad though. 2nd rounder this year is iffy to me too.
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I really liked Jimmy G when he came out. Wanted the browns to take him but didn't expect the pats to take him as high as they did.
I'd be fine with him, anybody who would give up the #12 pick for him is mad though. 2nd rounder this year is iffy to me too.
I really liked Jimmy G when he came out. Wanted the browns to take him but didn't expect the pats to take him as high as they did.
I'd be fine with him, anybody who would give up the #12 pick for him is mad though. 2nd rounder this year is iffy to me too.
I've always liked him too, but I WOULD give up our Titans 2nd rounder & a conditional 2018 pick.
It is shaping up to be a very interesting off season.
Mike
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Roll with RG III, Kessler and (X) this year. Instead of selecting a QB early in the draft, the Brown's glaring defensive needs should be addressed - particularly since it is very deep with defensive talent and offers the Browns quality players through the first two rounds. Josh Allen from WY, if he returns to college this year, should be the QB target in 2018.
Roll with RG III, Kessler and (X) this year. Instead of selecting a QB early in the draft, the Brown's glaring defensive needs should be addressed - particularly since it is very deep with defensive talent and offers the Browns quality players through the first two rounds. Josh Allen from WY, if he returns to college this year, should be the QB target in 2018.
Sam Darnold will be the target of every QB hungry team 2018!!!
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