North Carolina QB Mitch Trubisky headed to NFL draft
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Only because, as usual, you are not listening...
Right, I am reading, not listening.
I get it, you have YOUR sights set on some guy, just like I have my sights set on some guy. You think your guy is the next coming of Bruce Smith perhaps.....he may be the shit, but I think my guy is the equal shit...the next coming of Aaron Rodgers. And Its just that my guy does fit a more vital and needed role on this team.
And what I AM hearing is fear. Fear that if we take a QB, he may fail that he is the next Joey Harrington, not the next Aaron Rodgers.
Well, that fear goes both ways. My evaluation of your guy isn't any better than your evaluation of my guy. I fear that he is the next Aaron Curry or Aundray Bruce, and those fears are just as valid...and just as plausible as your fears.
But I say: take the risk on the more vital role/need.
I guess I missed "the big game" Mitch payed in.
Right, I am reading, not listening.
I get it, you have YOUR sights set on some guy, just like I have my sights set on some guy. You think your guy is the next coming of Bruce Smith perhaps.....he may be the shit, but I think my guy is the equal shit...the next coming of Aaron Rodgers. And Its just that my guy does fit a more vital and needed role on this team.
And what I AM hearing is fear. Fear that if we take a QB, he may fail that he is the next Joey Harrington, not the next Aaron Rodgers.
Well, that fear goes both ways. My evaluation of your guy isn't any better than your evaluation of my guy. I fear that he is the next Aaron Curry or Aundray Bruce, and those fears are just as valid...and just as plausible as your fears.
But I say: take the risk on the more vital role/need.
And you are not listening...
Fear has no role in my analysis, which by the way I have said all along is incomplete. I spent zero time on Mitch prior to his declaring for the draft.
I simply reject need as a ruling principle for drafting and the dependence on Mock's to set my draft order.
In other words, I reject the two pillars on which your pro-Mitch stance sits.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Here's why I doubt they pick Trubisky(or any QB 1st).......
Because, I think most of us and the world can agree that Trubisky is not a premium top top candidate....IE....he is a bit of a reach at #1 and not as accomplished as most would like to see, for that high of a pick....
And...last year....the Browns assessment and analytics said dont reach for a QB with that high pick......and, arguably, this years crops isnt as highly regarded as last years crop......
So, if our FO's system did not allow for Wentz at #2 or any of the prospects left at #15, then why would that grading and pick system suddenly change this year, allowing us to reach for QB at #1?
Here's why I doubt they pick Trubisky(or any QB 1st).......
Because, I think most of us and the world can agree that Trubisky is not a premium top top candidate....IE....he is a bit of a reach at #1 and not as accomplished as most would like to see, for that high of a pick....
I don't think either most of us or the world agree at all on that.
And...last year....the Browns assessment and analytics said dont reach for a QB with that high pick......and, arguably, this years crops isnt as highly regarded as last years crop......
That would likely be a losing argument. This year's group of QBs is better than last year's.
So, if our FO's system did not allow for Wentz at #2 or any of the prospects left at #15, then why would that grading and pick system suddenly change this year, allowing us to reach for QB at #1?
Because it would not be a reach? No more so than the pick of any other player on the board.
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I guess I missed "the big game" Mitch payed in.
Right, I am reading, not listening.
I get it, you have YOUR sights set on some guy, just like I have my sights set on some guy. You think your guy is the next coming of Bruce Smith perhaps.....he may be the shit, but I think my guy is the equal shit...the next coming of Aaron Rodgers. And Its just that my guy does fit a more vital and needed role on this team.
And what I AM hearing is fear. Fear that if we take a QB, he may fail that he is the next Joey Harrington, not the next Aaron Rodgers.
Well, that fear goes both ways. My evaluation of your guy isn't any better than your evaluation of my guy. I fear that he is the next Aaron Curry or Aundray Bruce, and those fears are just as valid...and just as plausible as your fears.
But I say: take the risk on the more vital role/need.
And you are not listening...
Fear has no role in my analysis, which by the way I have said all along is incomplete. I spent zero time on Mitch prior to his declaring for the draft.
I simply reject need as a ruling principle for drafting and the dependence on Mock's to set my draft order.
In other words, I reject the two pillars on which your pro-Mitch stance sits.
I guess I missed "the big game" Mitch payed in.
And you are not listening...
Fear has no role in my analysis, which by the way I have said all along is incomplete. I spent zero time on Mitch prior to his declaring for the draft.
I simply reject need as a ruling principle for drafting and the dependence on Mock's to set my draft order.
In other words, I reject the two pillars on which your pro-Mitch stance sits.
I am listening perfectly. You claim you reject need.....yet you rail on about how much we NEED and edge rusher...thus that brings you to conclude that we must draft an edge rusher.
I also do not "depend" on mocks.....I simply look at them out of curiosity and for fun, knowing that, in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate.
I usually don't look at one.
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I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed". There is NO pressure in whatever I do here. It ain't that big of a deal. Its entertainment.
Secondly, the facts are the facts. If you look at a ton of the mock drafts say, that are published by the Walterfootball mock draft database within the month leading up to the draft, they ARE a very accurate predictor of which players are going to be taken in like the Top 5 of the draft. They may not get the exact positioning right, but they mainly get the players right. The only caveat is if something happens like what happened to Laremy Tunsil last year, where something weird comes up last minute to knock some player down.
Do you deny this to be a fact?
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I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed". There is NO pressure in whatever I do here. It ain't that big of a deal. Its entertainment.
Secondly, the facts are the facts. If you look at a ton of the mock drafts say, that are published by the Walterfootball mock draft database within the month leading up to the draft, they ARE a very accurate predictor of which players are going to be taken in like the Top 5 of the draft. They may not get the exact positioning right, but they mainly get the players right. The only caveat is if something happens like what happened to Laremy Tunsil last year, where something weird comes up last minute to knock some player down.
Do you deny this to be a fact?
I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed". There is NO pressure in whatever I do here. It ain't that big of a deal. Its entertainment.
Secondly, the facts are the facts. If you look at a ton of the mock drafts say, that are published by the Walterfootball mock draft database within the month leading up to the draft, they ARE a very accurate predictor of which players are going to be taken in like the Top 5 of the draft. They may not get the exact positioning right, but they mainly get the players right. The only caveat is if something happens like what happened to Laremy Tunsil last year, where something weird comes up last minute to knock some player down.
Do you deny this to be a fact?
I think it depends on the date of the mock. A mock a week before the draft? Sure. A mock in January? Probably not as accurate.
Here's a whole handful of mocks from last January. Very few of them are accurate.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/lance-zierlein/275603
https://walterfootball.com/draft2016overreaction.php
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14551791/mel-kiper-releases-first-mock-draft-2016-nfl
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/06/2016-nfl-mock-draft-laremy-tunsil-jared-goff
This reinforces the point that Tour is making - the top five is varied except in cases of clear cut talent. Bosa and Ramsey were three of the top five ranked prospects on almost every big board last year, and as such were mocked in the top five even in January. Players like Wentz (and by extension, Trubisky) are the ones that are all over the board in these mocks because they aren't top 10 on the big board, yet top teams need a QB and may overdraft according to value.
Basing any argument over a mock from WalterFootball in January is just ridiculous. There's three months until the draft and any number of things can happen in that timespan. If Trubisky and Watson were ranked in the top 5 on ANYONES big board, you might have a case.
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I do not reject need... I limit it's impact... it's influence. I've posted extensively, and repeatedly, on my view of need's proper role in the draft. Don't bother asking me to do so again here.
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed". There is NO pressure in whatever I do here. It ain't that big of a deal. Its entertainment.
Secondly, the facts are the facts. If you look at a ton of the mock drafts say, that are published by the Walterfootball mock draft database within the month leading up to the draft, they ARE a very accurate predictor of which players are going to be taken in like the Top 5 of the draft. They may not get the exact positioning right, but they mainly get the players right. The only caveat is if something happens like what happened to Laremy Tunsil last year, where something weird comes up last minute to knock some player down.
Do you deny this to be a fact?
I think it depends on the date of the mock. A mock a week before the draft? Sure. A mock in January? Probably not as accurate.
Here's a whole handful of mocks from last January. Very few of them are accurate.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/lance-zierlein/275603
https://walterfootball.com/draft2016overreaction.php
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14551791/mel-kiper-releases-first-mock-draft-2016-nfl
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/06/2016-nfl-mock-draft-laremy-tunsil-jared-goff
This reinforces the point that Tour is making - the top five is varied except in cases of clear cut talent. Bosa and Ramsey were three of the top five ranked prospects on almost every big board last year, and as such were mocked in the top five even in January. Players like Wentz (and by extension, Trubisky) are the ones that are all over the board in these mocks because they aren't top 10 on the big board, yet top teams need a QB and may overdraft according to value.
Basing any argument over a mock from WalterFootball in January is just ridiculous. There's three months until the draft and any number of things can happen in that timespan. If Trubisky and Watson were ranked in the top 5 on ANYONES big board, you might have a case.
I think it depends on the date of the mock. A mock a week before the draft? Sure. A mock in January? Probably not as accurate.
Here's a whole handful of mocks from last January. Very few of them are accurate.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/275602
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/lance-zierlein/275603
https://walterfootball.com/draft2016overreaction.php
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14551791/mel-kiper-releases-first-mock-draft-2016-nfl
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/06/2016-nfl-mock-draft-laremy-tunsil-jared-goff
This reinforces the point that Tour is making - the top five is varied except in cases of clear cut talent. Bosa and Ramsey were three of the top five ranked prospects on almost every big board last year, and as such were mocked in the top five even in January. Players like Wentz (and by extension, Trubisky) are the ones that are all over the board in these mocks because they aren't top 10 on the big board, yet top teams need a QB and may overdraft according to value.
Basing any argument over a mock from WalterFootball in January is just ridiculous. There's three months until the draft and any number of things can happen in that timespan. If Trubisky and Watson were ranked in the top 5 on ANYONES big board, you might have a case.
I agree with what you say....that is why I said that the mocks "WITHIN a MONTH" of the draft are the ones to really be more aware of. So, it really verifies what i was saying.
And likewise, you cannot say that anyone's Top 5 on a Big Board right now will predict who the ultimate Top 5 will be.
I can only say this: in my opinion, based on historical fact, if you have QBs that people are talking about...they WILL go Top 5, regardless of Big Board ranking.
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I guess I missed "the big game" Mitch payed in.
And you are not listening...
Fear has no role in my analysis, which by the way I have said all along is incomplete. I spent zero time on Mitch prior to his declaring for the draft.
I simply reject need as a ruling principle for drafting and the dependence on Mock's to set my draft order.
In other words, I reject the two pillars on which your pro-Mitch stance sits.
I am listening perfectly. You claim you reject need.....yet you rail on about how much we NEED and edge rusher...thus that brings you to conclude that we must draft an edge rusher.
I also do not "depend" on mocks.....I simply look at them out of curiosity and for fun, knowing that, in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate.
I usually don't look at one.
I also do not "depend" on mocks.....
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed".
Do you deny this to be a fact?
First, yes, mocks tend to merge into group think and become more similar as draft day approaches... and for good reason. More work is done. The Combine and Pro days come and go. It's a natural process... it's also 3 months away.
As for the rest...
Sure, Gip... you start cussing because it's entertaining.... not because your nonsense has been challenged, called out... that you've been "pressed" to defend it... and cannot...
You are becoming unhinged. It's one thing to not remember positions I have stated consistently, repeatedly, but now you can't even post without contradicting yourself three posts later.
I'm now going to try and ignore you without putting you on "ignore", but if I end up having to put you on the shelf next to Ghoolie, I'll let you know. Also will let you know if or when I "Miss You Yet"...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I also do not "depend" on mocks.....
You cite mocks constantly. You have posted about your use of them as a basis for your Trubinsky position and are a primary source of your defense of that position..
So what? Why the fuck not? You got a problem with that?
Mocks do not agree except in clear cut cases of talent, e.g., Luck. Your statement that "in general, the vast combination of all mocks out there generally seem to come out fairly accurate," are just another collection of what I like to call "weasel words". They represent ground you retreat to when pressed.
First off...I am NEVER "pressed".
Do you deny this to be a fact?
First, yes, mocks tend to merge into group think and become more similar as draft day approaches... and for good reason. More work is done. The Combine and Pro days come and go. It's a natural process... it's also 3 months away.
As for the rest...
Sure, Gip... you start cussing because it's entertaining.... not because your nonsense has been challenged, called out... that you've been "pressed" to defend it... and cannot...
You are becoming unhinged. It's one thing to not remember positions I have stated consistently, repeatedly, but now you can't even post without contradicting yourself three posts later.
I'm now going to try and ignore you without putting you on "ignore", but if I end up having to put you on the shelf next to Ghoolie, I'll let you know. Also will let you know if or when I "Miss You Yet"...
First, yes, mocks tend to merge into group think and become more similar as draft day approaches... and for good reason. More work is done. The Combine and Pro days come and go. It's a natural process... it's also 3 months away.
As for the rest...
Sure, Gip... you start cussing because it's entertaining.... not because your nonsense has been challenged, called out... that you've been "pressed" to defend it... and cannot...
Are you really all that worried about a few curse words? Goodness, gracious me oho my. Are you really that sensitive?
You are becoming unhinged. It's one thing to not remember positions I have stated consistently, repeatedly, but now you can't even post without contradicting yourself three posts later.
A. It is not me coming unhinged. Its just entertainment to me. You are the one with your panties in a bunch over a few F Bombs. Go see George Carlin's famous bit.
B. You are the one contradicting yourself. You claim that you don't look at need.....then when I post some info about what each team's top needs are...you go balmy over it....claiming "no" those are not our top needs. (yet, you never did state what you thought those needs were.
As for me, on mock drafts.....sometimes I look at them, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I look at ratings, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I change my mind about things, sometimes I don't.
I'm now going to try and ignore you without putting you on "ignore", but if I end up having to put you on the shelf next to Ghoolie, I'll let you know. Also will let you know if or when I "Miss You Yet"...
So...who is going unhinged. Sorry if you can't handle a basic conversation or debate.
You go crazy because I disagree with you over who we think the Browns should draft.
You go crazy because I develop some ...novel...theories about what the Browns FO may be thinking (e.g. that them may actually go DT rather than OLB/DE in the draft)
I mean, if you want to go crazy, go ahead. At least have some fun with it.
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Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation.
Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'.
Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons.
Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade.
I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll.
I fear "Haden will be healthy" is no longer something that has a positive impact.
I fear "Haden will be healthy" is no longer something that has a positive impact.
We will see. People are down on the guy, and I get it.
He wants to be here. We need guys like this.
Karlis Missed -
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We will see. People are down on the guy, and I get it.
He wants to be here. We need guys like this.
Seems pretty clear he is not the same Joe we saw three-plus years ago injuries or no. He's not the shut down, #1 he once was.
Hopefully Williams can find a role better suited to his current talent level... be it moving him to the #2 or other. I'd love to see him contributing to the Browns throughout his remaining days in the league.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We will see. People are down on the guy, and I get it.
He wants to be here. We need guys like this.
Seems pretty clear he is not the same Joe we saw three-plus years ago injuries or no. He's not the shut down, #1 he once was.
Hopefully Williams can find a role better suited to his current talent level... be it moving him to the #2 or other. I'd love to see him contributing to the Browns throughout his remaining days in the league.
Seems pretty clear he is not the same Joe we saw three-plus years ago injuries or no. He's not the shut down, #1 he once was.
Hopefully Williams can find a role better suited to his current talent level... be it moving him to the #2 or other. I'd love to see him contributing to the Browns throughout his remaining days in the league.
I am tepidly interested in seeing him move to FS. Speed and ball ability have never been an issue with him. He won't be a punishing center fielder but, then again, we haven't had one of those in some time now.
However, I am still also wanting to see us throw bags of money at Eric Berry for a few years if only because I like him.
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