Draft Talk #2.
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I understand, all I am saying is that I don't think it hurts to have a little seasoning. I mean, BK sat for half a season, and no one was smarter than he.
Gary Danielson right now is a better QB than the 4 we have on the roster so that makes some sense for him to sit. He also wasn't the overall #1 pick in the draft.
Gary Danielson right now is a better QB than the 4 we have on the roster so that makes some sense for him to sit. He also wasn't the overall #1 pick in the draft.
Yes, about Danielson.
But actually, BK was the #1 overall pick in a sense. Remember, the Browns got Kosar by trading for Buffalo's first round draft pick in the Supp draft which was in fact the overall #1 pick that they had to give up.
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I understand, all I am saying is that I don't think it hurts to have a little seasoning. I mean, BK sat for half a season, and no one was smarter than he.
The problem with that argument is there hasn't been a relevant example of a first round QB sitting out since Aaron Rodgers (which was literally 10 years ago). Goff did it this year so the jury is still out there. Definitely agree with Mark, if he's your guy he's gotta play.
The problem with that argument is there hasn't been a relevant example of a first round QB sitting out since Aaron Rodgers (which was literally 10 years ago). Goff did it this year so the jury is still out there. Definitely agree with Mark, if he's your guy he's gotta play.
I think there are plenty of examples of First round QBs sitting out some time. Here, I am only looking at the first overall pick QBs since 2000:
Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford and David Carr did start right away.
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Alex Smith sat for 9 games
Eli Manning sat for 9 games
Carson Palmer sat for 3 games
Michael Vick sat for 14 games.
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Most people here have an extremely hard time with comprehension.
Exactly Tim. A fair number here are TIRED of the draft simulations. THERE'S A THREAD SPECIFICALLY CREATED FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES.
So far so good... lol...
Threads take on a life of their own. The draft sim results, even the ludicrous ones, generate discussion.
I'm deleting any of the A+++++ posts in this thread. This one is for SERIOUS (or not so serious) discussion, not how good you are against a computer!!!!
You can make the sim as serious or as ludicrous as you want.
Exactly Tim. A fair number here are TIRED of the draft simulations. THERE'S A THREAD SPECIFICALLY CREATED FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES.
I'm deleting any of the A+++++ posts in this thread. This one is for SERIOUS (or not so serious) discussion, not how good you are against a computer!!!!
Created for them... and then immediately shit in by you... nice.
Here's the thing I feel like keeps getting lost....the Browns can literally use an upgrade at every position unit on the field. You don't go 1-15 without this type of problem.
With that being said, as long as they don't draft a kicker/punter/long snapper with the 1st pick it will be a sturdy upgrade to the team. What I'm trying to say here is that if it's any of the top guys (Allen, Garrett, insert QB, etc), the Browns become a better football team (hypothetically of course). With this framework in mind as long as they don't go stupidly in left field I'll be very content with who they choose.
Yes... and thus the key is the size of the "hypothesis".
If we don't miss on both first round picks, the team will be instantly improved.
So if we bat .500 on our two firsts, then you'll be happy?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You can make the sim as serious or as ludicrous as you want.
Exactly Tim. A fair number here are TIRED of the draft simulations. THERE'S A THREAD SPECIFICALLY CREATED FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO PLAY COMPUTER GAMES.
I'm deleting any of the A+++++ posts in this thread. This one is for SERIOUS (or not so serious) discussion, not how good you are against a computer!!!!
Created for them... and then immediately shit in by you... nice.
Here's the thing I feel like keeps getting lost....the Browns can literally use an upgrade at every position unit on the field. You don't go 1-15 without this type of problem.
With that being said, as long as they don't draft a kicker/punter/long snapper with the 1st pick it will be a sturdy upgrade to the team. What I'm trying to say here is that if it's any of the top guys (Allen, Garrett, insert QB, etc), the Browns become a better football team (hypothetically of course). With this framework in mind as long as they don't go stupidly in left field I'll be very content with who they choose.
Yes... and thus the key is the size of the "hypothesis".
If we don't miss on both first round picks, the team will be instantly improved.
So if we bat .500 on our two firsts, then you'll be happy?
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@ghoolie said:
Trubisky
I don't often agree with Ghoolie, but when I do, it's about Mitch Trubisky.
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So far so good... lol...
Threads take on a life of their own. The draft sim results, even the ludicrous ones, generate discussion.
Yeah I'm not sure why they upset people so much. Especially when TCPO posts one as the first comment and Hoorta is cool with it. Huh?
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Yeah I'm not sure why they upset people so much. Especially when TCPO posts one as the first comment and Hoorta is cool with it. Huh?
If you'll look, mine was sarcastic - it was the straw that broke the camel's back in the other thread that caused him to make this one.
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The problem with that argument is there hasn't been a relevant example of a first round QB sitting out since Aaron Rodgers (which was literally 10 years ago). Goff did it this year so the jury is still out there. Definitely agree with Mark, if he's your guy he's gotta play.
I think there are plenty of examples of First round QBs sitting out some time. Here, I am only looking at the first overall pick QBs since 2000:
Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford and David Carr did start right away.
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Alex Smith sat for 9 games
Eli Manning sat for 9 games
Carson Palmer sat for 3 games
Michael Vick sat for 14 games.
I think there are plenty of examples of First round QBs sitting out some time. Here, I am only looking at the first overall pick QBs since 2000:
Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford and David Carr did start right away.
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Alex Smith sat for 9 games
Eli Manning sat for 9 games
Carson Palmer sat for 3 games
Michael Vick sat for 14 games.
Literally every QB you mentioned other than Stafford was drafted before or in the same year as Aaron Rodgers, which is literally why I said it's been a long time. I know you love your history but the game changes quickly, and looking at nearly 15 year old examples in some cases doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
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I think there are plenty of examples of First round QBs sitting out some time. Here, I am only looking at the first overall pick QBs since 2000:
Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford and David Carr did start right away.
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Alex Smith sat for 9 games
Eli Manning sat for 9 games
Carson Palmer sat for 3 games
Michael Vick sat for 14 games.
Literally every QB you mentioned other than Stafford was drafted before or in the same year as Aaron Rodgers, which is literally why I said it's been a long time. I know you love your history but the game changes quickly, and looking at nearly 15 year old examples in some cases doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
Literally every QB you mentioned other than Stafford was drafted before or in the same year as Aaron Rodgers, which is literally why I said it's been a long time. I know you love your history but the game changes quickly, and looking at nearly 15 year old examples in some cases doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
I only gave you the #1 overall picks, and only Carr. Winston, Newton, Luck and Bradford started right out. And imo Bradford and Carr should have waited.
Your premise went beyond #1 picks, you said ANY first round pick should not wait., yet, except for those 3 and a few others nearly ALL first round QB picks waited some: (Wentz/Flacco/Ryan did not)
Lynch full year so far
Goff 11 games
Mariota 4 games
Manziel....what the fuck ever
Brigdeport..4 games
Bortles...3 games
EJ Manual 6 games
Griffin 1 game
Weeden 1 game
Locker full year
Gabbert 2 games
Ponder 6 games
Tebow 13 games
Sanchez 1 game
Josh Freeman 7 games
Quinn full year
Vince Young 3 games
Leinert 5 games
Cutler 11 games
Jason Campbell 9 games.
Rodgers.....3 years!!
OK, some of these sucked so bad they maybe never should have been allowed to start, but that is hindsight.
Fact is, even history since Rodgers was drafted, most 1st round QBs had a waiting period.
Success if certainly variable.
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Yeah I'm not sure why they upset people so much. Especially when TCPO posts one as the first comment and Hoorta is cool with it. Huh?
If you'll look, mine was sarcastic - it was the straw that broke the camel's back in the other thread that caused him to make this one.
If you'll look, mine was sarcastic - it was the straw that broke the camel's back in the other thread that caused him to make this one.
I know. I laughed. I just don't know why hoorta then took it seriously.
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The Cleveland Browns should just say screw it.
Take Trubisky first overall and let the world laugh and say how we wasted the first overall pick on a QB that played for one year. Then we trade up slightly from 12, who cares what it takes to get there but get there. Then you select Leonard Fournette. The world will laugh and say... didn't they learn their lesson when they traded up to select Trent Richardson. So on and so forth. But, the real joke will be on them once the season starts, for the Browns will take the field with a QB that seems to have all the tools and character to be a franchise QB. A guy they can lean on and build around for the next several seasons, sink or swim.
With Fournette we will replace our over-achieving 6th round selection 'The Crow' ka ka kaaaa !!!
Leonard is no ordinary runningback... that's actually a question I'd like to ask Jim Brown. But we've seen what a GREAT RB like Elliot can do for a football team. I've seen Fournette do some incredible things. There is no reason that his ability would just disappear in the pros, there is no evidence that the NFL will be too big for him. He'd be a pleasure to watch slicing through defenses like a hot 'orange helmet' through butter.
We then should consider trading up some from the second round. Our first pick is practically a first rounder as well. Shoot, if even a single player is overdrafted by a team then it truly would be another first rounder. I don't know if we need to trade up but if we did we need to secure the best damn center in the draft. Can't have what happened last year happen again. Fortify that line in front of our new QB and RB combo. Hmmm, that would be 3 rookies in a row huh? C - QB - RB .... I guess it would be pushing it... but from the look of those particular players, I think they could handle it.
You may think I'm forgetting about our Defense... well to an extent I am. I think that our Defense is actually a good Defense on paper. I think the players are decent and with a switch to more of a 4-3 we could be okay if we could actually threaten a team with putting some points on the board on Offense.
I would like that CB King to move to Safety, I think he would be like an Ed Reed by 2020. We should actually take Jourdan Lewis and Kevin King as well.
If anybody doesn't think that we have the ability to secure the above players... let me assure you that we do. It can be done. We have the resources now we just need the want to. Upgrading the Offense and upgrading the backend of the Defensive Secondary would do wonders for this team.
If we did what I just said there wouldn't be any reason the Browns couldn't win 8-10 games next year.
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Literally every QB you mentioned other than Stafford was drafted before or in the same year as Aaron Rodgers, which is literally why I said it's been a long time. I know you love your history but the game changes quickly, and looking at nearly 15 year old examples in some cases doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
I only gave you the #1 overall picks, and only Carr. Winston, Newton, Luck and Bradford started right out. And imo Bradford and Carr should have waited.
Your premise went beyond #1 picks, you said ANY first round pick should not wait., yet, except for those 3 and a few others nearly ALL first round QB picks waited some: (Wentz/Flacco/Ryan did not)
Lynch full year so far
Goff 11 games
Mariota 4 games
Manziel....what the fuck ever
Brigdeport..4 games
Bortles...3 games
EJ Manual 6 games
Griffin 1 game
Weeden 1 game
Locker full year
Gabbert 2 games
Ponder 6 games
Tebow 13 games
Sanchez 1 game
Josh Freeman 7 games
Quinn full year
Vince Young 3 games
Leinert 5 games
Cutler 11 games
Jason Campbell 9 games.
Rodgers.....3 years!!
OK, some of these sucked so bad they maybe never should have been allowed to start, but that is hindsight.
Fact is, even history since Rodgers was drafted, most 1st round QBs had a waiting period.
Success if certainly variable.
I only gave you the #1 overall picks, and only Carr. Winston, Newton, Luck and Bradford started right out. And imo Bradford and Carr should have waited.
Your premise went beyond #1 picks, you said ANY first round pick should not wait., yet, except for those 3 and a few others nearly ALL first round QB picks waited some: (Wentz/Flacco/Ryan did not)
Lynch full year so far
Goff 11 games
Mariota 4 games
Manziel....what the fuck ever
Brigdeport..4 games
Bortles...3 games
EJ Manual 6 games
Griffin 1 game
Weeden 1 game
Locker full year
Gabbert 2 games
Ponder 6 games
Tebow 13 games
Sanchez 1 game
Josh Freeman 7 games
Quinn full year
Vince Young 3 games
Leinert 5 games
Cutler 11 games
Jason Campbell 9 games.
Rodgers.....3 years!!
OK, some of these sucked so bad they maybe never should have been allowed to start, but that is hindsight.
Fact is, even history since Rodgers was drafted, most 1st round QBs had a waiting period.
Success if certainly variable.
Some issues with your stats here.
Just at first glance:
Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans
Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland
RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington
Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets
And Rodgers and Eli Manning were both waiting behind HOF QB. Again my question is if a guy is taken 1st overall and can't beat out the 4 QB stiffs we have on our team, then he sucks and shouldn't be drafted.
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The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.
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Phil Savage tweeted. . .
FYI, I can confirm that @DeshaunWatson4 will not be participating in the 68th Annual #REESES @seniorbowl. Players begin arriving on Sunday.
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I only gave you the #1 overall picks, and only Carr. Winston, Newton, Luck and Bradford started right out. And imo Bradford and Carr should have waited.
Your premise went beyond #1 picks, you said ANY first round pick should not wait., yet, except for those 3 and a few others nearly ALL first round QB picks waited some: (Wentz/Flacco/Ryan did not)
Lynch full year so far
Goff 11 games
Mariota 4 games
Manziel....what the fuck ever
Brigdeport..4 games
Bortles...3 games
EJ Manual 6 games
Griffin 1 game
Weeden 1 game
Locker full year
Gabbert 2 games
Ponder 6 games
Tebow 13 games
Sanchez 1 game
Josh Freeman 7 games
Quinn full year
Vince Young 3 games
Leinert 5 games
Cutler 11 games
Jason Campbell 9 games.
Rodgers.....3 years!!
OK, some of these sucked so bad they maybe never should have been allowed to start, but that is hindsight.
Fact is, even history since Rodgers was drafted, most 1st round QBs had a waiting period.
Success if certainly variable.
Some issues with your stats here.
Just at first glance:
Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans
Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland
RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington
Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets
And Rodgers and Eli Manning were both waiting behind HOF QB. Again my question is if a guy is taken 1st overall and can't beat out the 4 QB stiffs we have on our team, then he sucks and shouldn't be drafted.
Some issues with your stats here. Just at first glance:
Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans
Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland
RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington
Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets
Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.
When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".
The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Some issues with your stats here. Just at first glance:
Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans
Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland
RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington
Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets
Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.
When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".
The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.
Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.
When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".
The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.
Saw that game with my own eyes.....watched all 4 interceptions that day. Watched Craig Robertson drop a game clinching interception as well. We thought Trent Richardson was a hall of famer after that game when he plowed into that poor eagles defender and knocked his helmet off.
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The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.
The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.
While I don't agree with #1 overall, I do agree he is one hellofa player. Unfortunately I think he is gone before #12, so the question becomes whether we think he is worth trading up to get or not.
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Yeah I'm not sure why they upset people so much. Especially when TCPO posts one as the first comment and Hoorta is cool with it. Huh?
If you noticed the computer grades were removed.
See below for my rational.If you'll look, mine was sarcastic - it was the straw that broke the camel's back in the other thread that caused him to make this one.
Exactly.
I know. I laughed. I just don't know why hoorta then took it seriously.
I've only closed a couple threads- the original was getting too long in the first place- and secondly was getting WAY off topic with the computer simulations. If you want to know where I'm coming from- I don't play Madden either. It was like- gee, if I play the computer simulation 100 times, I can come up with the coolest draft ever. Obsessive to the point like guys playing pinball or Pac Man who won't quit until they beat the high score, or at least come close. Sorry if some posters think I'm being a wet blanket spoiling their fun. Heck- we're not even into the East- West Shrine Game or Senior Bowl, not to mention the Combine- is that computer smart enough to take that into account? Tour sort of got POed at me for posting that ridiculous draft- but I don't need a computer to create an ultimate fantasy draft for the Browns.
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Not to criticize but I think running the computer simulation about a hundred time(probably way more) is exactly what our analytical FO is doing at this exact moment.
That first pick game is constantly upgraded with the latest up to date ranking on players... I've watched Jake Butt go from being a first round consideration to a late day 3 selection. Marcus Williams went from a day 1 to day 2...
It is a good way to determine what team needs are, who is going to be selected and where approximately. It is no doubt going to change up until draft day but as of now that is the information that is currently available... what else do we have to go on?
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Not to criticize but I think running the computer simulation about a hundred time(probably way more) is exactly what our analytical FO is doing at this exact moment.
That first pick game is constantly upgraded with the latest up to date ranking on players... I've watched Jake Butt go from being a first round consideration to a late day 3 selection. Marcus Williams went from a day 1 to day 2...
It is a good way to determine what team needs are, who is going to be selected and where approximately. It is no doubt going to change up until draft day but as of now that is the information that is currently available... what else do we have to go on?
Not to criticize but I think running the computer simulation about a hundred time(probably way more) is exactly what our analytical FO is doing at this exact moment.
That first pick game is constantly upgraded with the latest up to date ranking on players... I've watched Jake Butt go from being a first round consideration to a late day 3 selection. Marcus Williams went from a day 1 to day 2...
It is a good way to determine what team needs are, who is going to be selected and where approximately. It is no doubt going to change up until draft day but as of now that is the information that is currently available... what else do we have to go on?
At this point- it's strictly a "Beauty Contest" just like the weekly NFL Power Rankings are. LOL, hey- how 'bout those Cowboys now? The stuff you mentioned is pure speculation, by some draftnicks who may or may not know any more than you or me. Doesn't take much to have a blog, or write for Bleacher Report. Just like the goober having Wyoming's Josh Allen as a top 3 pick. Analytics is way more than computer simulations, just part of it. Is the computer game going into the depth most front offices are going? I doubt it. Doesn't have the scouting reports either. There's things like interviews and background checks. Doubtless Manziel scored high on the computer part- too bad the Browns didn't research the character part thoroughly enough. Feed a computer incomplete or faulty data, you're going to get incomplete or faulty output. So if you enjoy that game, knock yourself out - in the other thread. Just remember it's not worth the powder to blow it to hell come the end of April.
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