Found this fact about Centers

[sisky fringo]

@jc said:

I am happy with us taking Mack. However, I was yelling Well's name every time the Brown's were on the clock. I do think he is in the same class as LT and AP - at least talent wise. Whether he produces at the next level is another question. It takes more than just natural talent to make it, but I think he will.

are you crazy JC? no effing way.....we'd be lucky to see AP's equal this decade.....as smooth and effortless as Peterson runs now, chances are we haven't even seen his best ball. 296 yards in a single game his rookie year, the dude is a total game changer at any time--there's a reason Jamal's record of 295 stood so long. the only reason he's never done it again is because of the attention he garners.....and they still can't stop him. stopping Wells will never be the entire focus of the DC's gameplan, he's just an option.

@onefellswoop7 said:

I agree passing on LT and Peterson are tough to look back at...I'm not quite sure Wells is even in that class/conversation. Guess we'll see next year though.

i'm willing to put money on it. AD is a one of those freaks too dangerous to live, too rare to die.

[hammertime]

Zombo said:

You hit that one out of the park, Alo.

I'm sure Mangini has watched enough tape of the Ravens and Steelers manhandling us inside to make himself sick.

Center and Wide Receiver were the two biggest needs on this football team and we went after them.

Mack & Thomas working on the same line for the next part of a decade excites me.

Yeah, blocking excites me.

Because we've been pushed around by our bully rivals long enough ... and Mangini is signaling that he's not putting up with it.

Zombo

--Last year we secured the NT, this year the C ... necessities in the AFC North

Not only did mangini see us beaten at the center spot but at our WR spots. Drops aside, we lacked anybody other than BE and K2. You have to have others able to step up there game if one's having an off day or in BE case a off season.

Savage did leave us a few good core players to work with. I wasn't upset when we picked Faine and Mack will fit in fine.

[next2nothing]

@solon16 said:

NO you don't pass up lineman...I would rather have wells running the ball against pittsburgh,Baltimore in Nov and December...Caldwell from Bama wold have still been a big upgrade from Frayley. Keep drinkin the koolaid....We need a Big stud young runner and we just let him GO for a freakin Center!

You can say I'm drinking Mack's koolaid all you want. If he turns out to be crap, I'll eat crow. But from watching vids of Mack I feel that he's going to be a big part of our O-line for a long time.

My point is that you can pick up a "talented" RB in almost every single draft. I don't know how much Jamal has left in the tank but what if the guy was hampered last year because of our O-Line play instead of declining skills? I also think Harrison is a very talented back who wasn't used as much as he should have in the old regime.

I just don't think you pass on surefire starter at a position that makes or breaks a game. It all starts in the trenches and I'm happy with our first round pick.

[Bronx Cheer]

I echoed some of the thoughts above in an earlier thread. Yeah, Mack looks to be a pretty good center that can step in on day one. Yeah, he has little bust probability. But still, isn't it an overdraft to take a C when there are still highly rated players available at WR, RB and LB?

It seems to me that good teams get their C by drafting some light in the pants smart kid from Purdue or BC (one of the o-line factory schools) with a 4th rounder, and then beef him up for a year or so on the practice squad. No? I just get the feeling we would have been better off with a FA stop-gap C addition (if Fraley really was graded that bad by Magini), and drafting a skills player in the later first (Maclin, Wells, or Brown) and a developmental center in the second or fourth.

I think this draft is a good one, but unfortunately I think we left some yards on the field, so to speak.

[onefellswoop7]

Stop gap FA is not the way to go when you're in the AFC North (in my opinion). If you can't stop the D from pushing your OL up the middle...you probably can't score. You can't score...you can't win. Mangini chose a safe player who will help us solidify our offensive line for yeeeaaars. High draft pick, yes. Quinn or DA can't succeed or even be evaluated if they can't stand up straight. Our OL in 07 played well but overachieved in my opinion. Fraley was a great pickup and he has been very important to us. However, you saw how much things can change in a year. We were tormented up the middle last year and lost quite a few QBs in the process. Plus, we should be running the ball better this year. Jamal still ran for 1000+ yards when teams knew we couldn't throw (given our QB situation and lack of WRs) and our OL was playing poorly from the middle to the right.

[thomasw]

I agree with the comment on centers becoming more important in the league. The Browns made the smart move to upgrade at center. Mack should be able to manage the initial push of the nose tackles, and keep the pocket from collapsing for enough time to get the play in motion.

[Tobalaz]

@shepwrite said:

Bullshit. Mack has a reputation of being smart and very physical. As someone wrote, sometimes TOO physical. He's big for the position at 6'4" and 320.

Great, great stuff on the AFC North's 3-4 tendencies and talent on the nose. You can't use a zone blocking center here. You need a big guy... and a very good one.

Exactly.

You can't put a speed bump in front to mac truck and expect it to stop it, so why keep an undersized center when you're facing 350lb chunks of beef 6 times a year?

[Brownshirt]

@solon16 said:

NO you don't pass up lineman...I would rather have wells running the ball against pittsburgh,Baltimore in Nov and December...Caldwell from Bama wold have still been a big upgrade from Frayley. Keep drinkin the koolaid....We need a Big stud young runner and we just let him GO for a freakin Center!

Hey Solon, you seem like a nice guy and I respect your opinion (especially since we've all been bleeding since 1964) however WHAT would

Wells have accomplished running with Fraley at center ? ( Who saved the Browns from futher embarrassment when Bob Halleen ((who never did anything for anybody other than collect a paycheck)) said if I have to work to get paid I'll retire). Samething with Rey-Rey, when the suspension drops on your car, replacing the ball joints ain't going to get you where you need to go IMO.

[Kosar_For_President]

@onefellswoop7 said:

Gotta love acting rough and tough in a football forum. This banter is just soooo important haha. No sweat.

Yea you should see in the Political Forum, it's quite different. It's a bunch of sniveling Frasier Craine's beating a dead horse with a stick.

[talisaynon]

@oldcrow1945 said:

I think more than any other position this one can be groomed. It's been shown to be the case when there are so many good teams with late round and undrafted centers that are good football players.

In this year's pro bowl lineup only one center was a high pick. Gurod. He was a 2nd rounder.

I have to wonder if the general thinking in the NFL FO's are that you don't waste a high pick on a center. Just as they don't waste them on guards.

Mangold is fine center but in the final analysis is he really a difference maker? How many playoff games have the Jets won since his arrival? None?

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03...rise/#more-3907

POA win percentage:

1. Mangold 94.3%

2. Woody 89.5%

3. Faneca 87.8%

4. Ferguson 86.7%

5. Moore 85.4%

YPA

1. Woody 6.4

2. Mangold 6.1

3. Moore 5.8

4. Faneca 5.4

5. Ferguson 4.9

That Mangold graded out so well is a double shock in that centers are usually the weak link of an offensive line and yet he is the strength of this group.

Another way to illustrate just how good the Jets’ O line run metrics were is to put them in perspective with the rest of the league. I can’t do that just yet for the 2008 season since the tape breakdown process is still ongoing for Scientific Football 2009, but I can offer some rules of thumb from the run blocking metrics from Scientific Football 2006.

For example, in that season the highest POA success rating for any center was the 91.2% posted by Dennis Norman of Jacksonville. That is one way to illustrate just how dominant Mangold’s 94.3% win rating really is, but also consider that the median POA win rate for centers that year was 78.5%. In other words, if that trend continues for the 2008 ratings, Mangold will have a win rate 16% higher than the average center.

He's definately a difference maker. If there's one thing Mangini can do right, it's getting quality players at premium positions. He might fail in halftime adjustments/scheming, but his ability to recognize talent and field good players at different positions is good. Say what you will about Mangini, but he left the Jets with quality players and didnt run the team into the ground like Herm did.

Taking Nick Manigold at 29 was probably one of the greatest things Mangini did for us...so take that coming from a JEts fan at face value..

[Solon16]

@brownshirt said:

Hey Solon, you seem like a nice guy and I respect your opinion (especially since we've all been bleeding since 1964) however WHAT would

Wells have accomplished running with Fraley at center ? ( Who saved the Browns from futher embarrassment when Bob Halleen ((who never did anything for anybody other than collect a paycheck)) said if I have to work to get paid I'll retire). Samething with Rey-Rey, when the suspension drops on your car, replacing the ball joints ain't going to get you where you need to go IMO.

You all get me wrong...I like A center picked...Caldwell is going to be a very good Center in the league(laater rounds), would be a large upgrade, Luigs whom Cincy got will be a good center.... I have a problem with using a #1 Pick on a Center....Chris Wells very well may bust....I think he will be the biggesrt steal in this draft. Arizona got a whole lot better and they were in the superbowl. the dudw is another special back that we gifted to someone else! Wells running behind JT, Stein , Caldwell Womack and tucker/st.clair....in Novemeber and December? That's smash mouth or haven't you watched Wells CRUSH Michigan...the second most hated rival....3 years he smashed em'. Who is OSU's center..doug datish?