Jimmy Garoppolo Speculation
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@boo-fagley said:
WRONG
Look up NFL franchise tag.
Yea sure, they could do that.....and then they would have to pay about 25 million per year on an unproven backup QB, assuming Brady still plays, which he says he would. That would be more than they are paying Brady.
We can all only wish that the Patriots were that stupid.
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@boo-fagley said:
Most people have enough sense to know that the tag would be used to control Garrapolos rights since he would be a Free Agent. NE has 67 million in cap space this season and could roll some of that money into 2018 planning to tag Garropolo. The cap rising in 2018 benefits NE as well.
Youd have to be pretty dense to believe that Garrapolo will just walk away after the 2017 season if he isnt traded. Just sayin.
No, I agree, they don't want him to walk away untraded....that is why they will apparently be desperate to trade him. That is why the Browns have no business offering more than #52 for him. They are the desperate ones, not the Browns.
But, the Pats will NOT be franchise tagging him after this coming season and pay him 25 million or so.
The ONLY way they would do that is if: A. Tom Brady announced his retirement and he plays outstanding for them next year (ain't happening) or B. Tom Brady suffers an injury that could put him on the shelf for 2 years and threaten his career...and he plays outstanding for him.
As has been noted elsewhere....the Pats coaches (at least McDaniels) have gushed over Jacoby Brisset. So, it seems, as reported, that the Pats are by NO means all in on JG. At all. In fact, if they can't make a trade for him this year, yes, they may in fact keep him around next year, then let him go for nada.
I mean, they would at least probably get a Comp pick for him in that case, which may be sufficient for them.
But they ain't paying him 25 million dollars.
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@boo-fagley said:
Most people have enough sense to know that the tag would be used to control Garrapolos rights since he would be a Free Agent. NE has 67 million in cap space this season and could roll some of that money into 2018 planning to tag Garropolo. The cap rising in 2018 benefits NE as well.
Youd have to be pretty dense to believe that Garrapolo will just walk away after the 2017 season if he isnt traded. Just sayin.
& I can't believe the Patriots would tag Garropolo if Brady still wants to play in 2018. That's over $40 million on quarterbacks. Tom's only incentive to keep playing is if he wants to chase Manning and Favre's records. The only way your scenario makes sense is if New England really believes Jimmy is the QBOTF, and Brady has let them know 2018 is his last year.
BTW, it's been suggested more than once on this board- if the Patriots are so enamored of Jacoby Brissett as the backup they're willing to trade Jimmy- it's buyer beware. They're rolling the dice big time if Brady gets hurt, Garropolo is gone, and they're playing with Jacoby @ qb. Some of us are inclined to believe it's partly the system, not the player. Just another reason me and Gip aren't willing to give up much for Garropolo.
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giving up a 12 for him would be really, really dumb.
won't happen. The player is fine, but a high first rounder?
no freaking way, unless a team that is nearly a playoff team does the deal
because all they need is a qb. Now, at 33, I could go with that. But the bidding
war will surely make it a dumb move.
For #12 no wat
giving up a 12 for him would be really, really dumb.
won't happen. The player is fine, but a high first rounder?
no freaking way, unless a team that is nearly a playoff team does the deal
because all they need is a qb. Now, at 33, I could go with that. But the bidding
war will surely make it a dumb move.
Hell has frozen over, Cal and I agree sorry Cal
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@boo-fagley said:
Most people have enough sense to know that the tag would be used to control Garrapolos rights since he would be a Free Agent. NE has 67 million in cap space this season and could roll some of that money into 2018 planning to tag Garropolo. The cap rising in 2018 benefits NE as well.
Youd have to be pretty dense to believe that Garrapolo will just walk away after the 2017 season if he isnt traded. Just sayin.
& I can't believe the Patriots would tag Garropolo if Brady still wants to play in 2018. That's over $40 million on quarterbacks. Tom's only incentive to keep playing is if he wants to chase Manning and Favre's records. The only way your scenario makes sense is if New England really believes Jimmy is the QBOTF, and Brady has let them know 2018 is his last year.
BTW, it's been suggested more than once on this board- if the Patriots are so enamored of Jacoby Brissett as the backup they're willing to trade Jimmy- it's buyer beware. They're rolling the dice big time if Brady gets hurt, Garropolo is gone, and they're playing with Jacoby @ qb. Some of us are inclined to believe it's partly the system, not the player. Just another reason me and Gip aren't willing to give up much for Garropolo.
Tom's only incentive to keep playing is if he wants to chase Manning and Favre's records.
I think it's pretty clear that Tom loves the game... the competition. That any "records" are secondary byproducts. While both are easier to love when you are winning... winning titles... I see no signs his fire is dying. Someday I may, but not yet.
Just get the feeling he and Bill will walk off into the sunset together... after one, last SB win. Maybe after the SB in early 2020... seems like a nice round number.
And that's too long to pay big money to keep a backup...
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Tom's only incentive to keep playing is if he wants to chase Manning and Favre's records.
I think it's pretty clear that Tom loves the game... the competition. That any "records" are secondary byproducts. While both are easier to love when you are winning... winning titles... I see no signs his fire is dying. Someday I may, but not yet.
Just get the feeling he and Bill will walk off into the sunset together... after one, last SB win. Maybe after the SB in early 2020... seems like a nice round number.
And that's too long to pay big money to keep a backup...
I think it's pretty clear that Tom loves the game... the competition. That any "records" are secondary byproducts. While both are easier to love when you are winning... winning titles... I see no signs his fire is dying. Someday I may, but not yet.
Just get the feeling he and Bill will walk off into the sunset together... after one, last SB win. Maybe after the SB in early 2020... seems like a nice round number.
And that's too long to pay big money to keep a backup...
And Brady is a workoutaholic who watches every single thing he eats so that he is in the best shape he can possibly be in every year he plays. I think he has 2-5 more years left in the tank just because that regimen is a part of his competitive nature. Like Manning injury will be the only thing slowing him down during that time. That's the unknown factor here.
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@boo-fagley said:
NO, NE is NOT desperate this off season because Garapollo has 1 year on his contract.
NO, Garropollo cannot just walk away. NE will control his rights.
One hour ago.
Well, yes, JG has that one year to go. But from the Pats point of view, if they don't trade him now, he can walk away after next year and they get squadoosh for him. That is why they want to try to get a winfall for him now, so that they don't get bupkiss later.
NO, Garropollo CANT walk away because NE will Franchise tag him. Thats what the Franchise tag was designed for. Dont you understand?
In the National Football League (NFL), the franchise tag is a designation a team may apply to a player scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. The tag binds the player to the team for one year if certain conditions are met. ... The transition tag can only be used if the team does not use a franchise tag.
Are you really, seriously basing your position with the confidence that the Patriots would slap the Franchise tag on JG after this next season?
Lets put this to the test: Is there anyone else out there at all that thinks that the NE Patriots after next season are going to Franchise their backup QB and pay him 25 million.?
Anyone? Anyone?
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@boo-fagley said:
NO, NE is NOT desperate this off season because Garapollo has 1 year on his contract.
NO, Garropollo cannot just walk away. NE will control his rights.
One hour ago.
Well, yes, JG has that one year to go. But from the Pats point of view, if they don't trade him now, he can walk away after next year and they get squadoosh for him. That is why they want to try to get a winfall for him now, so that they don't get bupkiss later.
NO, Garropollo CANT walk away because NE will Franchise tag him. Thats what the Franchise tag was designed for. Dont you understand?
In the National Football League (NFL), the franchise tag is a designation a team may apply to a player scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. The tag binds the player to the team for one year if certain conditions are met. ... The transition tag can only be used if the team does not use a franchise tag.
Are you really, seriously basing your position with the confidence that the Patriots would slap the Franchise tag on JG after this next season?
Lets put this to the test: Is there anyone else out there at all that thinks that the NE Patriots after next season are going to Franchise their backup QB and pay him 25 million.?
Anyone? Anyone?
Are you really, seriously basing your position with the confidence that the Patriots would slap the Franchise tag on JG after this next season?
Lets put this to the test: Is there anyone else out there at all that thinks that the NE Patriots after next season are going to Franchise their backup QB and pay him 25 million.?
Anyone? Anyone?
No because of the way BB has operated over the years, he's far more likely to trade of Grabsapillow for a draft pick (or two or three) before losing him in free agency. He's a player of value to someone else and of really no value to NE as long as #12 keeps playing.
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@boo-fagley said:
NO, NE is NOT desperate this off season because Garapollo has 1 year on his contract.
NO, Garropollo cannot just walk away. NE will control his rights.
One hour ago.
Well, yes, JG has that one year to go. But from the Pats point of view, if they don't trade him now, he can walk away after next year and they get squadoosh for him. That is why they want to try to get a winfall for him now, so that they don't get bupkiss later.
NO, Garropollo CANT walk away because NE will Franchise tag him. Thats what the Franchise tag was designed for. Dont you understand?
In the National Football League (NFL), the franchise tag is a designation a team may apply to a player scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. The tag binds the player to the team for one year if certain conditions are met. ... The transition tag can only be used if the team does not use a franchise tag.
Are you really, seriously basing your position with the confidence that the Patriots would slap the Franchise tag on JG after this next season?
Lets put this to the test: Is there anyone else out there at all that thinks that the NE Patriots after next season are going to Franchise their backup QB and pay him 25 million.?
Anyone? Anyone?
Are you really, seriously basing your position with the confidence that the Patriots would slap the Franchise tag on JG after this next season?
Lets put this to the test: Is there anyone else out there at all that thinks that the NE Patriots after next season are going to Franchise their backup QB and pay him 25 million.?
Anyone? Anyone?
Already said no way Jose. Brady will make $21 million in 2018 unless he restructures again. Add in another $25 million for Jimmy? Not unless Tom says 2018 is his last year.
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I think it's pretty clear that Tom loves the game... the competition. That any "records" are secondary byproducts. While both are easier to love when you are winning... winning titles... I see no signs his fire is dying. Someday I may, but not yet.
Just get the feeling he and Bill will walk off into the sunset together... after one, last SB win. Maybe after the SB in early 2020... seems like a nice round number.
And that's too long to pay big money to keep a backup...
And Brady is a workoutaholic who watches every single thing he eats so that he is in the best shape he can possibly be in every year he plays. I think he has 2-5 more years left in the tank just because that regimen is a part of his competitive nature. Like Manning injury will be the only thing slowing him down during that time. That's the unknown factor here.
And Brady is a workoutaholic who watches every single thing he eats so that he is in the best shape he can possibly be in every year he plays. I think he has 2-5 more years left in the tank just because that regimen is a part of his competitive nature. Like Manning injury will be the only thing slowing him down during that time. That's the unknown factor here.
Ha, don't ya know someone here thinks Tom is already washed up? There's around 10 NFL teams that would gladly take Brady off of New England's hands.
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I think it's pretty clear that Tom loves the game... the competition. That any "records" are secondary byproducts. While both are easier to love when you are winning... winning titles... I see no signs his fire is dying. Someday I may, but not yet.
Just get the feeling he and Bill will walk off into the sunset together... after one, last SB win. Maybe after the SB in early 2020... seems like a nice round number.
And that's too long to pay big money to keep a backup...
And Brady is a workoutaholic who watches every single thing he eats so that he is in the best shape he can possibly be in every year he plays. I think he has 2-5 more years left in the tank just because that regimen is a part of his competitive nature. Like Manning injury will be the only thing slowing him down during that time. That's the unknown factor here.
And Brady is a workoutaholic who watches every single thing he eats so that he is in the best shape he can possibly be in every year he plays. I think he has 2-5 more years left in the tank just because that regimen is a part of his competitive nature. Like Manning injury will be the only thing slowing him down during that time. That's the unknown factor here.
That's the thing about Tom, even with the legends of the past decade or so the writing on the wall was there. That craziest thing about Brady is there's about nothing you can point to that goes "hmm" other than age. His stats are still elite, he still remains incredibly healthy in terms of being on the field, and it's clear the guy wants to play until his arm falls off.
As of this second I have zero reason to doubt Tom could play another 3-4 season. Father Time gets everyone but until that "writing on the wall" play starts to show up, I'd be all in.
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@boo-fagley said:
Brady will restructure in a heartbeat to help the franchise. The Pats can still franchise and work out a contract or franchise and trade Garropolo wont simply walk away.
You cant win without a defense and the Pats are rumored to after Perry from Michigan.
I'm not saying he will. Assuming the Patriots shop him- it will be interesting what they can get. You should know by now, I'm not in the trade for Jimmy camp- especially with our #12.
And if he's as valuable as you think he is- you won't be able to keep him in 2018 for peanuts.
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@boo-fagley said:
Brady will restructure in a heartbeat to help the franchise. The Pats can still franchise and work out a contract or franchise and trade Garropolo wont simply walk away.
You cant win without a defense and the Pats are rumored to after Perry from Michigan.
I'm not saying he will. Assuming the Patriots shop him- it will be interesting what they can get. You should know by now, I'm not in the trade for Jimmy camp- especially with our #12.
And if he's as valuable as you think he is- you won't be able to keep him in 2018 for peanuts.
I'm not saying he will. Assuming the Patriots shop him- it will be interesting what they can get. You should know by now, I'm not in the trade for Jimmy camp- especially with our #12.
And if he's as valuable as you think he is- you won't be able to keep him in 2018 for peanuts.
So, if he ended up being our franchise QB, he isn't worth #12?
Also, if we did trade up #12, we might get something in addition to JG with it.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
I'm not saying he will. Assuming the Patriots shop him- it will be interesting what they can get. You should know by now, I'm not in the trade for Jimmy camp- especially with our #12.
And if he's as valuable as you think he is- you won't be able to keep him in 2018 for peanuts.
So, if he ended up being our franchise QB, he isn't worth #12?
Also, if we did trade up #12, we might get something in addition to JG with it.
So, if he ended up being our franchise QB, he isn't worth #12?
Also, if we did trade up #12, we might get something in addition to JG with it.
If you are certain then you give up 12. Hell, you give up 1. But you're not. There's a chance, which is why you give up something, but unless you're certain, that gets hedged by giving up less, placing a lower bet. If you think Landry Jones has a slim chance, you could trade a 6th, but it's far from certain so you don't trade a first round pick.
You're trying to make a valuation based on information not yet available, and that's part of the problem. If we trade a 3rd round pick for a QB, and he turns out to be amazing, then yeah, we're all thinking we would have been happy giving more. But if he busts, we're happy we only gave a 3rd.
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@boo-fagley said:
Garrapolo playing for 25 mil any season was never the argument.
Whether NE is in a trade or watch Garrapolo walk away for nothing this season is the argument.
Not sure how that is the case since you raised the tag as a means to "control" his rights.
If you can use it to argue why he will still be trade bait, then why can't it be used to argue why he will be traded for the market price?
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@boo-fagley said:
Garrapolo playing for 25 mil any season was never the argument.
Whether NE is in a trade or watch Garrapolo walk away for nothing this season is the argument.
Except, in your premise, what happens if nobody offers the asking price for JG?
At least four of the QB needy teams (Chicago, SF, Buffalo, Cleveland, possibly Houston, possibly Denver and possibly NY) will address QB THIS YEAR in some fashion. That means they won't be in the market for a QB next year.
There's not any QBs in the verge of retiring which means that the pool of QB needy teams will be n-4 next season, a season which is supposedly going to have two, possibly three, top flight prospects entering the draft.
You've limited your market and now you have better competition. If nobody is hitting your asking price now, why would they next year?
Tagging a player that you have no chance of resigning with the hopes of trading him gives control to the other teams.
If I'm one of the three GMs inquiring about JG next year, I just wait. Patriots would be forced to pull the tag or pay him. If they pay him, now I'm just exploring my draft options instead.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
It's a "zero sum equation", and if JG develops into a franchise QB, he's worth whatever we pay for him. If he's a bust, the deal didn't work. There isn't a whole lot of middle ground IMO. From what I just heard about Tyrod Taylor from Vic Carucci, Tyrod Taylor hasn't shown the ability to "throw the ball with anticipation". He basically waits until the guy is open, and that's not a good thing in the NFL. He also had the longest duration from snap to throw in the NFL last year, and we've continually heard how important that stat is for Hue Jackson. Additionally, Tyrod doesn't appear comfortable throwing the ball to the middle of the field, so that's another concern. These are all things I didn't know until yesterday, and it definitely makes me think twice about the guy. Could Hue Jackson help him? If our new QB coach didn't have terrific success with Taylor the past two years, then what will change?
This information definitely cements my stance that JG is my first choice, but I obviously understand that he comes with his own set of risks. I thought it was interesting that Josh McCown gave a recent interview (after being cut) in which he said JG has the talent and ability to "be elite". He has the physical tools to be exceptional, and he's different from somebody like Matt Cassell because JG possesses "elite talent." I'm not saying Josh McCown is the "be all, end all" in QB evaluations, but it was certainly a revealing statement. The pursuit of JG will come down to price, and NOBODY has any real idea of what it will take to trade for him, AND we aren't sure the Pats will cut him loose ANYWAYS.
Something that makes me want to vomit is thinking about the Patriots getting a giant haul of picks for a backup QB. Think about the Pats' team if the 49's or Bears go bananas and offer up their first pick? The Patriots sitting at the #2 pick OVERALL? Jesus. And you know the Patriots, they probably wouldn't sit tight at #2. They'd trade down AT LEAST once and probably turn that #2 pick into God knows what. Ugh...
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@boo-fagley said:
Garrapolo playing for 25 mil any season was never the argument.
Whether NE is in a trade or watch Garrapolo walk away for nothing this season is the argument.
Except, in your premise, what happens if nobody offers the asking price for JG?
At least four of the QB needy teams (Chicago, SF, Buffalo, Cleveland, possibly Houston, possibly Denver and possibly NY) will address QB THIS YEAR in some fashion. That means they won't be in the market for a QB next year.
There's not any QBs in the verge of retiring which means that the pool of QB needy teams will be n-4 next season, a season which is supposedly going to have two, possibly three, top flight prospects entering the draft.
You've limited your market and now you have better competition. If nobody is hitting your asking price now, why would they next year?
Tagging a player that you have no chance of resigning with the hopes of trading him gives control to the other teams.
If I'm one of the three GMs inquiring about JG next year, I just wait. Patriots would be forced to pull the tag or pay him. If they pay him, now I'm just exploring my draft options instead.
Except, in your premise, what happens if nobody offers the asking price for JG?
At least four of the QB needy teams (Chicago, SF, Buffalo, Cleveland, possibly Houston, possibly Denver and possibly NY) will address QB THIS YEAR in some fashion. That means they won't be in the market for a QB next year.
There's not any QBs in the verge of retiring which means that the pool of QB needy teams will be n-4 next season, a season which is supposedly going to have two, possibly three, top flight prospects entering the draft.
You've limited your market and now you have better competition. If nobody is hitting your asking price now, why would they next year?
Tagging a player that you have no chance of resigning with the hopes of trading him gives control to the other teams.
If I'm one of the three GMs inquiring about JG next year, I just wait. Patriots would be forced to pull the tag or pay him. If they pay him, now I'm just exploring my draft options instead.
While I agree with your overall point, there are teams that might be looking to move on from their younger QB, like Jacksonville, and looking at teams at the other end of the specturm, Rivers, Eli and Palmer could look at retiring for example. BIg Ben talked about it. There are always QB needy teams. Just, the Pats won't get anything for JG next year unless they tag him, in which case they'll get almost nothing, if he signs. No chance they tag him btw.
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@boo-fagley said:
Garrapolo playing for 25 mil any season was never the argument.
Hello! McFly! Is anybody home? That is EXACTLY the argument if you insist on believing that the Pats would franchise this guy.
Whether NE is in a trade or watch Garrapolo walk away for nothing this season is the argument.
Yes.....now you are coming to your senses. That IS the issue: do they trade JG....or let him walk away with nothing after this year if they don't trade him. Franchising him would never happen.....unless Brady retired or had a devastating injury and JG played like the second coming of Brady.
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