Pryor to Redskins
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I have a feeling he might get franchised with a view to lengthening the exclusive negotiating period through most of the offseason.
To franchise TP would cost the Browns about $16 million dollars: http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/02/nfl_franchise_tag_2017_position.html
I like the guy a lot and hope we re-sign him, but that would be absurd amount of money to pay him for what he's done in his career so far. I really doubt this FO would pull that either. The guy wants to be here, we can "overpay" him to stay here on a contract, all signs point to just getting the deal done.
My best guess because you have to tag someone is that it'll go to Colquitt.
To franchise TP would cost the Browns about $16 million dollars: http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/02/nfl_franchise_tag_2017_position.html
I like the guy a lot and hope we re-sign him, but that would be absurd amount of money to pay him for what he's done in his career so far.
But it is still cheaper than the commitment we will have to make to him to lock him into a multi-year deal.
If we are not sure how high his ceiling is, then the tag is a viable, smart route.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If you have the money just laying around, you might as well spend it on him. It will build up some good will on his part that you overpaid him so much, won't affect the health of our roster going forward, and will give us another year to evaluate him.
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How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
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How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
Let me try to follow the logic here - we had a good young corner that we drafted high and who played well; he went to the pro-bowl; we signed him to a long contract extension; he then went to another pro-bowl; he's been injured a lot the last couple of year; therefore we shouldn't sign anyone to a contract extension?
Sound.
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To franchise TP would cost the Browns about $16 million dollars: http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/02/nfl_franchise_tag_2017_position.html
I like the guy a lot and hope we re-sign him, but that would be absurd amount of money to pay him for what he's done in his career so far.
But it is still cheaper than the commitment we will have to make to him to lock him into a multi-year deal.
If we are not sure how high his ceiling is, then the tag is a viable, smart route.
But it is still cheaper than the commitment we will have to make to him to lock him into a multi-year deal.
If we are not sure how high his ceiling is, then the tag is a viable, smart route.
I'd ask you to go more into detail on this. If we keep the tag on TP as noted he would cost the Browns $16 or so million. I get and understand the idea a contract can be negotiated during this time, but assuming he signs the tag that's overpaying for TP given his career production wouldn't you agree?
If we sign him to a contract with about that same money guaranteed (again, my target would be something like 4 yr/$35 million with $16-20 mil guaranteed) and back-load it, we would be paying the guy roughly the same amount of money over the first two years of the contract to include his guarantees. If the dudes balls out he's worth the $9-10 million you're giving him in the last two years of the deal in this back load scenario. If he bottoms out (which still is a concern of mine as it should be for the Browns) after two years you release him for the cap space. I prefer option two because it provides much more stability without nearly as much cost.
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How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
Two Pro Bowls, one All Pro team
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But it is still cheaper than the commitment we will have to make to him to lock him into a multi-year deal.
If we are not sure how high his ceiling is, then the tag is a viable, smart route.
I'd ask you to go more into detail on this. If we keep the tag on TP as noted he would cost the Browns $16 or so million. I get and understand the idea a contract can be negotiated during this time, but assuming he signs the tag that's overpaying for TP given his career production wouldn't you agree?
If we sign him to a contract with about that same money guaranteed (again, my target would be something like 4 yr/$35 million with $16-20 mil guaranteed) and back-load it, we would be paying the guy roughly the same amount of money over the first two years of the contract to include his guarantees. If the dudes balls out he's worth the $9-10 million you're giving him in the last two years of the deal in this back load scenario. If he bottoms out (which still is a concern of mine as it should be for the Browns) after two years you release him for the cap space. I prefer option two because it provides much more stability without nearly as much cost.
I'd ask you to go more into detail on this. If we keep the tag on TP as noted he would cost the Browns $16 or so million. I get and understand the idea a contract can be negotiated during this time, but assuming he signs the tag that's overpaying for TP given his career production wouldn't you agree?
If we sign him to a contract with about that same money guaranteed (again, my target would be something like 4 yr/$35 million with $16-20 mil guaranteed) and back-load it, we would be paying the guy roughly the same amount of money over the first two years of the contract to include his guarantees. If the dudes balls out he's worth the $9-10 million you're giving him in the last two years of the deal in this back load scenario. If he bottoms out (which still is a concern of mine as it should be for the Browns) after two years you release him for the cap space. I prefer option two because it provides much more stability without nearly as much cost.
Sure... start with this...
When you have cap space now, then you front load contracts. Bringing the bulk of the guaranteed money to year one keeps the books clear in the out years for resigning other talent and making that last FA push.
But even setting that aside...
Your offer, which would be rejected IMO, pays out $9mm in round numbers in year one. The tag estimate for WRs I've seen are a shade over $15mm. So it appears I am paying a $6mm premium for "one more look".
However, if your guaranteed money is truly guaranteed, and is not of that roster bonus, soft-money variety, then you paid ~$22mm for that same look. And, again, the only way I can see your offer having chance of being acceptable is if the guaranteed amount was absolute.
The way your approach pays off is if TP turns out to be the real deal. A status I do not see at this time.
All the above said hang with me one more second while I restate my original contract position for TP, an incentive-laden package.
Take your base, or even a slightly lower one... say $8mm/yr, or $32mm for four-years, with about 50% guaranteed of which half is payable at signing. A total of $12mm upfront.
Layer atop that base up to $4mm/yr in incentives ranging from the mundane games played to catches/yards/TDs payable at season's end. If he emerges as a #1, this let's him be paid as one.
Ramp up of the base and incentives in the out years can be negotiated, as could a 5th-year option. The ramp ups might even be based upon prior years' cumulative bonus payouts, if league rules/the CBA allow such arrangements.
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More than half his yards came in 4 games. Those other games he was a relative non-factor. Not really consistent imo. He still has room to grow an is worth the investment, as he works hard and want to improve.
More than half his yards came in 4 games. Those other games he was a relative non-factor. Not really consistent imo. He still has room to grow an is worth the investment, as he works hard and want to improve.
thats because he needs another wideout that is a factor. julio jones would not have have the yds he gets if he did not have all those other weapons on the field..
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How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
Two Pro Bowls, one All Pro team
Two Pro Bowls, one All Pro team
haden is done...too many injuries, a piece of shit defense that cannot rush the qb to help him out...1 more cuss and he's cooked for his career...
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Two Pro Bowls, one All Pro team
haden is done...too many injuries, a piece of shit defense that cannot rush the qb to help him out...1 more cuss and he's cooked for his career...
haden is done...too many injuries, a piece of shit defense that cannot rush the qb to help him out...1 more cuss and he's cooked for his career...
Who knows, maybe. Or he may make a comeback. If he is healthy I still think he is capable. Should the Browns plan for a future without him. Yes, almost certainly.
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Two Pro Bowls, one All Pro team
haden is done...too many injuries, a piece of shit defense that cannot rush the qb to help him out...1 more cuss and he's cooked for his career...
haden is done...too many injuries, a piece of shit defense that cannot rush the qb to help him out...1 more cuss and he's cooked for his career...
Regarding the concussion- probably. Regarding done, done. I'm not sure. He played hurt all last year. A DB playing on bum legs can look washed up.
Who knows, maybe. Or he may make a comeback. If he is healthy I still think he is capable. Should the Browns plan for a future without him. Yes, almost certainly.
^ We will certainly draft a CB somewhere in April. Probably high.
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How is that Joe Haden contract working out? And how many Pro Bowls did he make.
Let me try to follow the logic here - we had a good young corner that we drafted high and who played well; he went to the pro-bowl; we signed him to a long contract extension; he then went to another pro-bowl; he's been injured a lot the last couple of year; therefore we shouldn't sign anyone to a contract extension?
Sound.
Let me try to follow the logic here - we had a good young corner that we drafted high and who played well; he went to the pro-bowl; we signed him to a long contract extension; he then went to another pro-bowl; he's been injured a lot the last couple of year; therefore we shouldn't sign anyone to a contract extension?
Sound.
Not the logic. The logic is don't overpay to keep someone in Cleveland because the rest of the team stinks. Even if Haden hadn't gotten hurt he would have been a Mercedes hood ornament on a Pinto.
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I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
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From what I understand, the Browns could, rather than franchise tag Pryor, place the "Transition Tag" on him. So, that means that rather than having to pay him the average of the top 5 receivers in the league, they can simply match what he may receive in an offer sheet that someone else would agree to pay him. Does anyone see any other team offering TP 16 mill per? I don't.
So, this may be a good solution. TP tests the market, the Browns can match and keep him...if they feel the deal is not against their best interests, and they have him for another year in which they can continue to negotiate with him.
Transition tag: Think of this as the "you are pretty good, and we might want to keep you, but aren't willing to put a ring on you ourselves" tag. The transition designation is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount that is the average of the top 10 salaries at the position -- as opposed to top five. It guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player might receive from another team, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.
Each team can only use one of the above tags in a given year -- meaning they can't designate both a franchise and transition player. A player can be tagged up to three times by his team, with a bump in pay each time.
Teams can rescind the franchise or transition tag -- as we saw with Josh Norman last year -- if the offer sheet hasn't been signed. Once the sheet is signed, the player's salary is guaranteed for that season. A rescinded tag counts as a tag, meaning a team can't designate one player, rescind it and use a new tag on another player in the same year.
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I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
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I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
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I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
Pray tell WHAT, in your opinion, the Browns NEED? Please reply before the combine & free agency & please be specific. Surely you have an idea since you know specifically what they DON'T need.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
More than half his yards came in 4 games. Those other games he was a relative non-factor. Not really consistent imo. He still has room to grow an is worth the investment, as he works hard and want to improve.
thats because he needs another wideout that is a factor. julio jones would not have have the yds he gets if he did not have all those other weapons on the field..
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I gotta think about that logic,,,,,,dont resign your good players unless you have a roster full of good players?
How does one accomplish that?
That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
So, are you saying that the team does not need a quality, big play WR? Which TP can be.
Sure, I would not pay him franchise tag money. That is why...if a deal can't be done, that the Transition tag may be a very viable option.
Think about it: one year the Browns Transition tagged Alex Mack. It worked out. He got an offer they matched. They should have franchise tagged him the next year. But no, they let him go in FA.
Now, Mack WAS a guy that was worth the average of the top 5 paid OCs in the game, because he was one of the Top 5 OCs in the game. Sure, TP is not that, but he is worth trying to keep through hook or by crook.
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That's not the logic either. Haden at 5 years $52 million would have been fine by me. 5 years at $67 million was overpaying for an unnecessary piece. Making him the highest paid DB at the time isn't what the Browns needed. Terrell Pryor isn't a top 20 WR so to overpay him to keep him in Cleveland is a mistake given that's not what the team needs. If the Browns continue to overpay to keep "names" or fan favorites they'll never been successful.
Pray tell WHAT, in your opinion, the Browns NEED? Please reply before the combine & free agency & please be specific. Surely you have an idea since you know specifically what they DON'T need.
Mike
Pray tell WHAT, in your opinion, the Browns NEED? Please reply before the combine & free agency & please be specific. Surely you have an idea since you know specifically what they DON'T need.
Mike
I think they need a pass rushing end, an ILB that can be effective in pass protection but is fierce against the run and another DB.
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