Where is the real talent in this year's draft?
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I call it now, Garrett will be Corey Brown.
I assume you mean Courtney Brown?
I am not saying Garrett will be Courtney Brown....but he could be. Or he could be Von Miller. All Johnny lovers who have hung on here think the latter.
I am not saying that Trubisky will be Aaron Rodgers...but he could be
Or he could be Joey Harrington.
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I have read and heard a lot of speculation about this year's draft. Most people seem to think that this years draft is deep on the defensive side; but, how good are they really? My opinion is that this was not a very talented year in college which is why there were so many upsets and ranked teams falling back; while, unranked teams passed them up. The DBs looked good this year but is it because they were that good or because the receivers and quarterbacks they played against were not as good as years before this last year. I still think that DB is one of the deepest and most skilled for this draft; but, their competition makes me worry if they will do as well at the pro level. What do you think?
I still think that DB is one of the deepest and most skilled for this draft; but, their competition makes me worry if they will do as well at the pro level. What do you think?
When you consider that 4 or 5 DBs are on the field every play, drafts should be deep in them every year.
Same should be said for the OL, but this year's class looks pretty bad.
One position with limited participation that stands out this year is RB. There's real quality projected for every round.
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Not true.@ghoolie said:
This is fallacy. The level of talent has absolutely nothing to do with upsets and disappointments, etc..... Every draft year represents graduates who have risen to the very highest level of performance. Thousands and thousands of players from pee-pee leagues, from all over America, from the best schools, with the best coaches....all God's creation......
.....No talent? Bullshit. The shortage is with people who know how to assess a man, a human being first, and the player second.
Like all relative things some year's graduation classes are clearly better, nearly the same or worse than others either in the numbers of truly excellent players who will be future HOF candidates or the just the overall numbers of good serviceable players or maybe the unusually high numbers of totally bad players at any particular position.
Just look at the 1983 QB class as compared to this year's QB class just as one example and that goes for any other position over time.
All classes (like all people) are not equal some are just better than others.
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From nfl.Com their top 10 draft classes of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000650115/Top-10-NFL-draft-classes-of-all-time
Yes, most things in life are relative and often quantifiable and measurable.
....edit add, their #4 class 1957 included a guy named Jim Brown.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
The 2013 class was awful, while 2011 was excellent
The picks
1. Cam Newton..........Eric Fisher
2. Von Miller...............Luke Joeckel
3. Marcel Dareus.......Dion Jordan
4. AJ Green...............Lane Johnson
5. Patrick Peterson....Ziggy Ansah
6. Julio Jones............Barkevious Mingo
7. Aldon Smith...........Jonathan Cooper
8. Jake Locker...........Tavon Austin
9. Tyron Smith...........Dee Milliner
10. Blaine Gabbert....Chance Warmack
11. JJ Watt................DJ Fluker
Apart from reaching on a couple of QBs that 2011 draft has probably at least Julio, Peterson, Watt, Smith as HOF calibre guys, maybe even the likes of Green, Miller and Newton depending on what happens next in their careers.
Compared to 2013...oh dear.
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I have read and heard a lot of speculation about this year's draft. Most people seem to think that this years draft is deep on the defensive side; but, how good are they really? My opinion is that this was not a very talented year in college which is why there were so many upsets and ranked teams falling back; while, unranked teams passed them up. The DBs looked good this year but is it because they were that good or because the receivers and quarterbacks they played against were not as good as years before this last year. I still think that DB is one of the deepest and most skilled for this draft; but, their competition makes me worry if they will do as well at the pro level. What do you think?
I have read and heard a lot of speculation about this year's draft. Most people seem to think that this years draft is deep on the defensive side; but, how good are they really? My opinion is that this was not a very talented year in college which is why there were so many upsets and ranked teams falling back; while, unranked teams passed them up. The DBs looked good this year but is it because they were that good or because the receivers and quarterbacks they played against were not as good as years before this last year. I still think that DB is one of the deepest and most skilled for this draft; but, their competition makes me worry if they will do as well at the pro level. What do you think?
wr, te and cb..crazy talent this year...lot of solid backup rb's awful at OT and QB below avg dt
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From nfl.Com their top 10 draft classes of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000650115/Top-10-NFL-draft-classes-of-all-time
Yes, most things in life are relative and often quantifiable and measurable.
....edit add, their #4 class 1957 included a guy named Jim Brown.
From nfl.Com their top 10 draft classes of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000650115/Top-10-NFL-draft-classes-of-all-time
Yes, most things in life are relative and often quantifiable and measurable.
....edit add, their #4 class 1957 included a guy named Jim Brown.
Interesting, perhaps controversial. 1983 the best? Arguable. 1957 and 1964 had more HOF players.
I had not thought about 2007 and 2011. Maybe a bit premature?
What about 2004? Excellent at the Top: Rivers/Eli/BR. plus Vince Wilfork, Larry Fitzgerald. Jared Allen. It falls off from there, so maybe not as deep.
2007? Well, it had a poor beginning: Jamarcus Russell. But Patrick Willis, Revis, JT, Adrian Peterson do some good.
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The 2013 class was awful, while 2011 was excellent
The picks
1. Cam Newton..........Eric Fisher
2. Von Miller...............Luke Joeckel
3. Marcel Dareus.......Dion Jordan
4. AJ Green...............Lane Johnson
5. Patrick Peterson....Ziggy Ansah
6. Julio Jones............Barkevious Mingo
7. Aldon Smith...........Jonathan Cooper
8. Jake Locker...........Tavon Austin
9. Tyron Smith...........Dee Milliner
10. Blaine Gabbert....Chance Warmack
11. JJ Watt................DJ Fluker
Apart from reaching on a couple of QBs that 2011 draft has probably at least Julio, Peterson, Watt, Smith as HOF calibre guys, maybe even the likes of Green, Miller and Newton depending on what happens next in their careers.
Compared to 2013...oh dear.
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Per NFL.Com
Best classes of all time:
1. 1983 naturally
2. 1989
3. 1961
4. 1957
5. 1964
I would not say "naturally". 1983 had the QBs, but:
1957 also had 2 HOF QBs: Dawson, Jurgenson. Plus it had boderliners: John Brodie, Jack Kemp, Milt Plum
Plus these other HOFs:
Jim Brown
Don Maynard
Henry Jordan
Gene Hickerson
Jim Parker
Tommy McDonald
Paul Hornung
Plus other very good players: Jack Pardee, Bill Glass, Billy Ray Smith.
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Yes any "best of" list has to stand the test of time so the 21st century guys need some time.
But 1983, yes I'd take it as #1...in a subjective topic.
Yes any "best of" list has to stand the test of time so the 21st century guys need some time.
But 1983, yes I'd take it as #1...in a subjective topic.
And 1964 had these HOF players:
Carl Eller
Paul Krause
Paul Warfield
Roger Staubach
Mel Renfro
Charley Taylor
Bob Hayes
Bob Brown
Dave Wilcox
Leroy Kelly
Plus...in 1964, that was the draft that gave us the immortal Dick Shiner!
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Per NFL.Com
Best classes of all time:
1. 1983 naturally
2. 1989
3. 1961
4. 1957
5. 1964
I would not say "naturally". 1983 had the QBs, but:
1957 also had 2 HOF QBs: Dawson, Jurgenson. Plus it had boderliners: John Brodie, Jack Kemp, Milt Plum
Plus these other HOFs:
Jim Brown
Don Maynard
Henry Jordan
Gene Hickerson
Jim Parker
Tommy McDonald
Paul Hornung
Plus other very good players: Jack Pardee, Bill Glass, Billy Ray Smith.
Well 1983 was always my favorite and was led by the game's glamour boys, the QBs but these debates could go on and on, 1983 might be someone else's 2-5?I would not say "naturally". 1983 had the QBs, but:
1957 also had 2 HOF QBs: Dawson, Jurgenson. Plus it had boderliners: John Brodie, Jack Kemp, Milt Plum
Plus these other HOFs:
Jim Brown
Don Maynard
Henry Jordan
Gene Hickerson
Jim Parker
Tommy McDonald
Paul Hornung
Plus other very good players: Jack Pardee, Bill Glass, Billy Ray Smith.
I like it because guys like Darrel Green was picked right after Marino. That was an exciting if not controversial day.
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From nfl.Com their top 10 draft classes of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000650115/Top-10-NFL-draft-classes-of-all-time
Yes, most things in life are relative and often quantifiable and measurable.
....edit add, their #4 class 1957 included a guy named Jim Brown.
Interesting, perhaps controversial. 1983 the best? Arguable. 1957 and 1964 had more HOF players.
I had not thought about 2007 and 2011. Maybe a bit premature?
What about 2004? Excellent at the Top: Rivers/Eli/BR. plus Vince Wilfork, Larry Fitzgerald. Jared Allen. It falls off from there, so maybe not as deep.
2007? Well, it had a poor beginning: Jamarcus Russell. But Patrick Willis, Revis, JT, Adrian Peterson do some good.
Definitely some immortal players! But for overall draft must look beyond just HOF players because of their small overall numbers but check out these names most all 1st round picks:Interesting, perhaps controversial. 1983 the best? Arguable. 1957 and 1964 had more HOF players.
I had not thought about 2007 and 2011. Maybe a bit premature?
What about 2004? Excellent at the Top: Rivers/Eli/BR. plus Vince Wilfork, Larry Fitzgerald. Jared Allen. It falls off from there, so maybe not as deep.
2007? Well, it had a poor beginning: Jamarcus Russell. But Patrick Willis, Revis, JT, Adrian Peterson do some good.
1983
John Elway, QB, Stanford 1st Round (1st overall) by Baltimore Colts
Eric Dickerson, RB, Southern Methodist - 1st Round (2nd overall) by Los Angeles Rams
Bruce Matthews, OL, Southern California - 1st Round (9th overall) by Houston Oilers
Jim Kelly, QB, Miami (FL) - 1st Round (14th overall) by Buffalo Bills
Dan Marino, QB, Pittsburgh - 1st Round (27th overall) by Miami Dolphins
Darrell Green, CB, Texas A&I - 1st Round (28th overall) by Washington Redskins
Richard Dent, DE, Tennessee State - 8th round (203rd overall) by Chicago Bears
1989
Troy Aikman, QB, UCLA - 1st round (1st overall) by Dallas Cowboys
Barry Sanders, RB, Oklahoma State 1st Round (3rd overall) by Detroit Lions
Derrick Thomas, LB, Alabama - 1st round (4th overall) by Kansas City Chiefs
Deion Sanders, CB (also KR/PR), Florida State - 1st round (5th overall) by Atlanta Falcons
1961
Mike Ditka, TE, Pittsburgh - 1st Round (5th overall) by Chicago Bears (Also drafted in 1st round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Houston Oilers.)
Jimmy Johnson, CB, UCLA - 1st Round (6th overall) by San Francisco 49ers (Also drafted in 4th round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Los Angeles Chargers.)
Herb Adderley, HB, Michigan State - 1st Round (12th overall) by Green Bay Packers (Also drafted in 2nd round of 1961 AFL Draft by the New York Titans.)
Bob Lilly, DT, Texas Christian - 1st Round (13th overall) by Dallas Cowboys (Also drafted in 2nd round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Dallas Texans.)
Billy Shaw, G, Georgia Tech - 2nd Round by Buffalo Bills (Also selected in the 14th round - 184th overall - of 1961 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys.)
Fran Tarkenton, QB, Georgia - 3rd Round (29th overall) by Minnesota Vikings (Also drafted in 5th round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Boston Patriots.)
David "Deacon" Jones, DE, South Carolina St., Mississippi Vocational - 14th Round (186th overall) by Los Angeles Rams
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Definitely some immortal players! But for overall draft must look beyond just HOF players because of their small overall numbers but check out these names most all 1st round picks:Interesting, perhaps controversial. 1983 the best? Arguable. 1957 and 1964 had more HOF players.
I had not thought about 2007 and 2011. Maybe a bit premature?
What about 2004? Excellent at the Top: Rivers/Eli/BR. plus Vince Wilfork, Larry Fitzgerald. Jared Allen. It falls off from there, so maybe not as deep.
2007? Well, it had a poor beginning: Jamarcus Russell. But Patrick Willis, Revis, JT, Adrian Peterson do some good.
1983
John Elway, QB, Stanford 1st Round (1st overall) by Baltimore Colts
Eric Dickerson, RB, Southern Methodist - 1st Round (2nd overall) by Los Angeles Rams
Bruce Matthews, OL, Southern California - 1st Round (9th overall) by Houston Oilers
Jim Kelly, QB, Miami (FL) - 1st Round (14th overall) by Buffalo Bills
Dan Marino, QB, Pittsburgh - 1st Round (27th overall) by Miami Dolphins
Darrell Green, CB, Texas A&I - 1st Round (28th overall) by Washington Redskins
Richard Dent, DE, Tennessee State - 8th round (203rd overall) by Chicago Bears
1989
Troy Aikman, QB, UCLA - 1st round (1st overall) by Dallas Cowboys
Barry Sanders, RB, Oklahoma State 1st Round (3rd overall) by Detroit Lions
Derrick Thomas, LB, Alabama - 1st round (4th overall) by Kansas City Chiefs
Deion Sanders, CB (also KR/PR), Florida State - 1st round (5th overall) by Atlanta Falcons
1961
Mike Ditka, TE, Pittsburgh - 1st Round (5th overall) by Chicago Bears (Also drafted in 1st round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Houston Oilers.)
Jimmy Johnson, CB, UCLA - 1st Round (6th overall) by San Francisco 49ers (Also drafted in 4th round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Los Angeles Chargers.)
Herb Adderley, HB, Michigan State - 1st Round (12th overall) by Green Bay Packers (Also drafted in 2nd round of 1961 AFL Draft by the New York Titans.)
Bob Lilly, DT, Texas Christian - 1st Round (13th overall) by Dallas Cowboys (Also drafted in 2nd round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Dallas Texans.)
Billy Shaw, G, Georgia Tech - 2nd Round by Buffalo Bills (Also selected in the 14th round - 184th overall - of 1961 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys.)
Fran Tarkenton, QB, Georgia - 3rd Round (29th overall) by Minnesota Vikings (Also drafted in 5th round of 1961 AFL Draft by the Boston Patriots.)
David "Deacon" Jones, DE, South Carolina St., Mississippi Vocational - 14th Round (186th overall) by Los Angeles Rams
Definitely some immortal players! But for overall draft must look beyond just HOF players because of their small overall numbers but check out these names most all 1st round picks:
That is why I say that 1957 and 1964 stack up well vs. 1983.
10 HOF in '64
9 in '57
only 7 in '83
Plus, for 57 particularly...look at that list of Non-HOF guys. Kemp...2 time champ. Brodie...outstanding QB.
Interesting. Good stuff.
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1953 also had 7 HOF:
1953
Doug Atkins, DE, Tennessee - 1st Round (11th overall) by Cleveland Browns
John Henry Johnson, FB, St. Mary's, Arizona - 2nd Round (18th overall) by Pittsburgh Steelers (Played in the Canadian Football League in 1953. Negotiating rights were traded to San Francisco 49ers before the 1954 season.)
Bob St. Clair, T, San Francisco, Tulsa - 3rd Round (32nd overall) by San Francisco 49ers
Stan Jones, G/DT, Maryland - 5th Round (54th overall) by Chicago Bears (Drafted as a future selection.)
Jim Ringo, C, Syracuse - 7th Round (79th overall) by Green Bay Packers
Joe Schmidt, LB, Pittsburgh - 7th Round (85th overall) by Detroit Lions
Roosevelt Brown, T, Morgan State - 27th Round (321st overall) by New York Giants -
67 and 68 8 each
1967
Bob Griese, QB, Purdue - 1st Round (4th overall) by Miami Dolphins
Floyd Little, RB, Syracuse - 1st Round (6th overall) by Denver Broncos
Alan Page, DT, Notre Dame - 1st Round (15th overall) by Minnesota Vikings
Gene Upshaw, G, Texas A&I - 1st Round (17th overall) Oakland Raiders
Lem Barney, CB, Jackson State - 2nd Round (34th overall) by Detroit Lions
Willie Lanier, LB, Morgan State - 2nd Round (50th overall) by Kansas City Chiefs
Rayfield Wright, T, Fort Valley State - 7th round (182nd player overall) by Dallas Cowboys
Ken Houston, S, Prairie A&M - 9th Round (214th overall) by Houston Oilers1968
Ron Yary, T, Cerritos Jr. College, USC - 1st Round (1st overall) by Minnesota Vikings
Claude Humphrey, DE, Tennessee State - 1st round (3rd overall) by Atlanta Falcons
Larry Csonka, FB, Syracuse - 1st Round (8th overall) by Miami Dolphins
Curley Culp, DT, Arizona State - 2nd round (31st player overall) by Denver Broncos
Ken Stabler, QB, Alabama - 2nd Round (52nd overall) by Oakland Raiders
Charlie Sanders, TE, Minnesota - 3rd Round (74th overall) by Detroit Lions
Elvin Bethea, DE, North Carolina A&T - 3rd Round (77th overall) by Houston Oilers
Art Shell, Maryland State-Eastern Shore - 3rd Round (80th overall) by Oakland Raiders -
The absolute worst class was 1974...for the simple fact that they were nearly all Steelers from that class.
1974
Lynn Swann, WR, USC - 1st Round (21st overall) by Pittsburgh Steelers
Dave Casper, WR, Notre Dame - 2nd Round (44th overall) by Oakland Raiders
Jack Lambert, LB, Kent State - 2nd Round (46th overall) by Pittsburgh Steelers
John Stallworth, WR, Alabama A&M - 4th Round (82nd overall) by Pittsburgh Steelers
Mike Webster, C, Wisconsin - 5th Round (125th overall) by Pittsburgh Steelers -
"Weak" NFL draft classes in terms of number of players drafted that made the HOF...since WWII:
1992...NONE (perhaps best players that year were: Jimmy Smith WR and DB Troy Vincent)
1947....1: Dante Lavelli
1954: 1: Raymond Berry
1955: 1. Johnny Unitas
1959: 1. Dick Lebeau
1972: 1. Franco Harris
1977: 1. Tony Dorsett.
1986: 1. Charles Haley
(note: the latest draft class in which someone is now in the HOF is the 1997 class: Orlando Pace and Walter Jones
1998 will have Peyton, Charles Woodson, Randy Moss, Alan Faneca.
1999 best bets are Champ Bailey, Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James.
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I call it now, Garrett will be Corey Brown.
I assume you mean Courtney Brown?
I am not saying Garrett will be Courtney Brown....but he could be. Or he could be Von Miller. All Johnny lovers who have hung on here think the latter.
I am not saying that Trubisky will be Aaron Rodgers...but he could be
Or he could be Joey Harrington.
I call it now, Garrett will be Corey Brown.
I assume you mean Courtney Brown?
I am not saying Garrett will be Courtney Brown....but he could be. Or he could be Von Miller. All Johnny lovers who have hung on here think the latter.
I am not saying that Trubisky will be Aaron Rodgers...but he could be
Or he could be Joey Harrington.
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