Man Shot & Killed For Being Brown
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That's a defeatist attitude, in my opinion. Things like this don't happen as frequently in states with stronger gun-control laws. How reduce the occurrence of hate crime? Propagate less hate and more understanding.
Good idea Osiris.
I think you should get right on that.
I'm sure this scumbag would have thought twice had the hate crime laws been stronger.
WSS
Good idea Osiris.
I think you should get right on that.
I'm sure this scumbag would have thought twice had the hate crime laws been stronger.
WSS
No, he would've thought twice if he didn't have a gun on him while he was drunk.
Not defeatist but a realistic attitude. You can blame the gun, or the alcohol but the bottom line is the blame falls squarely on the murderer here. He should be punished severely and I am sure he will.
I blame all three. People die more when guns are easier to access. That's not debatable. People's judgement is compromised when they are drunk. How about a law saying you can't bring guns into a place where alcohol is served.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Good idea Osiris.
I think you should get right on that.
I'm sure this scumbag would have thought twice had the hate crime laws been stronger.
WSS
No, he would've thought twice if he didn't have a gun on him while he was drunk.
Not defeatist but a realistic attitude. You can blame the gun, or the alcohol but the bottom line is the blame falls squarely on the murderer here. He should be punished severely and I am sure he will.
I blame all three. People die more when guns are easier to access. That's not debatable. People's judgement is compromised when they are drunk. How about a law saying you can't bring guns into a place where alcohol is served.
No, he would've thought twice if he didn't have a gun on him while he was drunk.
I blame all three. People die more when guns are easier to access. That's not debatable. People's judgement is compromised when they are drunk. How about a law saying you can't bring guns into a place where alcohol is served.
It was already illegal in Kansas. So the guy clearly didn't give a shit about gun laws or laws against murdering innocent strangers.
The guy needs to be under the jail.
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Good idea Osiris.
I think you should get right on that.
I'm sure this scumbag would have thought twice had the hate crime laws been stronger.
WSS
No, he would've thought twice if he didn't have a gun on him while he was drunk.
Not defeatist but a realistic attitude. You can blame the gun, or the alcohol but the bottom line is the blame falls squarely on the murderer here. He should be punished severely and I am sure he will.
I blame all three. People die more when guns are easier to access. That's not debatable. People's judgement is compromised when they are drunk. How about a law saying you can't bring guns into a place where alcohol is served.
No, he would've thought twice if he didn't have a gun on him while he was drunk.
I blame all three. People die more when guns are easier to access. That's not debatable. People's judgement is compromised when they are drunk. How about a law saying you can't bring guns into a place where alcohol is served.
There is no easy answer. Common sense says bringing guns into a bar where you have drunk people is not good yet if a bar puts up a sign no guns allowed we know those who don't obey laws anyway will bring them in regardless...so you will have the law abiding unarmed and those up to no good with them.
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Well I assume it's already illegal to have a gun when you're drunk and an asshole. Apparently that didn't stop him.
WSS
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Well I assume it's already illegal to have a gun when you're drunk and an asshole. Apparently that didn't stop him.
WSS
Well I assume it's already illegal to have a gun when you're drunk and an asshole. Apparently that didn't stop him.
WSS
well, I reckon we could put all the drunks in straight jackets. Then they can't use guns,
or cars, or baseball bats, or ropes, or arrows, or trucks, or fire, or two-by-fours, or lead pipes,
to hurt anybody anymore.
Wait, let's just make it illegal to drink booze. After all, if there were no booze, nobody would get drunk....
but seriously, I suppose this calls for
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Realtor charged w/ murders of 2 women, arson in Westminster house fire
abc7.com/news/man-charged-w--murders-of-2-women-after...fire/1686881/Jan 4, 2017 - Christopher Ireland, 37, made his first court appearance after being charged with two felony counts for the murders of Yolanda Holtrey and her friend Michelle Luke on New Year's Eve. Ireland was also charged with aggravated mayhem and arson after Holtrey's Westminster home burned
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if we could just get all baseball bats eliminated from the world:
Gilroy: Man suspected of killing mother with baseball batwww.mercurynews.com/.../gilroy-man-suspected-of-killing-mother-with-baseball-bat-...Dec 27, 2016 - GILROY β A 39-year-old Gilroy man has been arrested on suspicion of fatally beating his mother, a beloved former lecturer at San Jose State University, with a baseball bat on Christmas Day, according to the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office. -
Osiris I don't mean to belabor the issue but if you think more laws will make a big difference, great.
I don't think anything less than total confiscation can or will.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
And I think we only have one guy on the board who advocated that.
WSS
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It's against the law to carry a gun while drinking, I don't understand how this could have happened
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"At a press conference, a local prosecutor said Purinton has been charged with one count of premeditated first degree murder, and two counts of attempted premeditated first degree murder. He is awaiting extradition to Kansas from Missouri, according to officials. An FBI official said the agency is investigating with local police. Itβs unclear for now if Purinton will be charged with a federal hate crime. He is under a $2 million bond."
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And this man's life is over. He will either spend the rest of his life in prison or put to death. That is all we can do in society. You can blame the gun but he could have just waited for these two to step outside and ran them over with his car? You can blame alcohol but we tried prohibition already? If a person wants to be a racist how can they be stopped? All we can do is punish the guilty.
That's a defeatist attitude, in my opinion. Things like this don't happen as frequently in states with stronger gun-control laws. How reduce the occurrence of hate crime? Propagate less hate and more understanding.
That's a defeatist attitude, in my opinion. Things like this don't happen as frequently in states with stronger gun-control laws. How reduce the occurrence of hate crime? Propagate less hate and more understanding.
Been to Chicago recently? There, you're hated for which neighborhood you live in, color be damned. Savannah is the same way. Chicago still has strict gun laws, some of the most strict in the nation. Savannah is in the South so gun laws are virtually written in pencil. Hate of another human being regardless of the reason is the driving force behind homicide.
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Osiris I don't mean to belabor the issue but if you think more laws will make a big difference, great.
I don't think anything less than total confiscation can or will.
WSS
Osiris I don't mean to belabor the issue but if you think more laws will make a big difference, great.
I don't think anything less than total confiscation can or will.
WSS
I think the population data bears out that it does make a difference. It won't completely stop events like this, but it makes it less likely. Said another way, how do you explain that states with stricter gun laws have lower gun fatality rates?
Been to Chicago recently? There, you're hated for which neighborhood you live in, color be damned. Savannah is the same way. Chicago still has strict gun laws, some of the most strict in the nation. Savannah is in the South so gun laws are virtually written in pencil. Hate of another human being regardless of the reason is the driving force behind homicide.
Illinois, despite Chicago's violence, remains in the top 15 states with the lowest gun fatality rates. See, I spent 10+ years analyzing big-data in genomics so I don't look for anecdotes to drive policy, I look for trends, and the trends are pretty clear. Firearm fatalities are lower per capita in states with tighter gun restrictions. That's not debatable.
You have on the one hand, states like MA with 3 firearms-related deaths per 100,000 people, which is about the same as France and Switzerland, then on the opposite end, states like Louisiana, and Alaska, with over 20 firearms related deaths per 100,000 people, which is similar to Brazil and only better than a collection of South-American countries.
I know this is an oversimplification, but if you average the fatality rate of Democratic states, you get 9 per 100,000. Do the same for Republican states, you get 15. That's a very significant difference, and it is most likely because Democratic states have tighter gun laws. So this business about gun laws not making a difference is self-delusion even worse than mmgw denialism.
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Osiris I don't mean to belabor the issue but if you think more laws will make a big difference, great.
I don't think anything less than total confiscation can or will.
WSS
I think the population data bears out that it does make a difference. It won't completely stop events like this, but it makes it less likely. Said another way, how do you explain that states with stricter gun laws have lower gun fatality rates?
Been to Chicago recently? There, you're hated for which neighborhood you live in, color be damned. Savannah is the same way. Chicago still has strict gun laws, some of the most strict in the nation. Savannah is in the South so gun laws are virtually written in pencil. Hate of another human being regardless of the reason is the driving force behind homicide.
Illinois, despite Chicago's violence, remains in the top 15 states with the lowest gun fatality rates. See, I spent 10+ years analyzing big-data in genomics so I don't look for anecdotes to drive policy, I look for trends, and the trends are pretty clear. Firearm fatalities are lower per capita in states with tighter gun restrictions. That's not debatable.
You have on the one hand, states like MA with 3 firearms-related deaths per 100,000 people, which is about the same as France and Switzerland, then on the opposite end, states like Louisiana, and Alaska, with over 20 firearms related deaths per 100,000 people, which is similar to Brazil and only better than a collection of South-American countries.
I know this is an oversimplification, but if you average the fatality rate of Democratic states, you get 9 per 100,000. Do the same for Republican states, you get 15. That's a very significant difference, and it is most likely because Democratic states have tighter gun laws. So this business about gun laws not making a difference is self-delusion even worse than mmgw denialism.
I think the population data bears out that it does make a difference. It won't completely stop events like this, but it makes it less likely. Said another way, how do you explain that states with stricter gun laws have lower gun fatality rates?
Illinois, despite Chicago's violence, remains in the top 15 states with the lowest gun fatality rates. See, I spent 10+ years analyzing big-data in genomics so I don't look for anecdotes to drive policy, I look for trends, and the trends are pretty clear. Firearm fatalities are lower per capita in states with tighter gun restrictions. That's not debatable.
You have on the one hand, states like MA with 3 firearms-related deaths per 100,000 people, which is about the same as France and Switzerland, then on the opposite end, states like Louisiana, and Alaska, with over 20 firearms related deaths per 100,000 people, which is similar to Brazil and only better than a collection of South-American countries.
I know this is an oversimplification, but if you average the fatality rate of Democratic states, you get 9 per 100,000. Do the same for Republican states, you get 15. That's a very significant difference, and it is most likely because Democratic states have tighter gun laws. So this business about gun laws not making a difference is self-delusion even worse than mmgw denialism.
I have problems with this oversimplified analysis. Vast majority of your firearm related deaths in Louisiana for example, come from the overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled city New Orleans.
And when we do the break down by city instead of state we get a much different picture than the one you're describing.
Not to mention some of these states have like no people living in them so the few gun deaths that do occur sky rocket the gun-death per 100,000 number.
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Don't you think better socioeconomic conditions would have a greater and faster impact than strict gun laws though?
Again, the focus should be getting to root of the problem. That root is what drives another human being to end the life of another human being. Why are people opting to kill as opposed to civil resolution of their issues?
Strict gun laws are comparable to a bandaid on a shotgun wound. Our real trouble in this country is how we treat each other on a daily basis. We are not striving towards civilization but galloping towards barbarism and anarchy. Guns are a tool that contribute to that. However they are still tools and not the motive behind murder.
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@boo-fagley said:
Hang him.
Is that Cleve?
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"At a press conference, a local prosecutor said Purinton has been charged with one count of premeditated first degree murder, and two counts of attempted premeditated first degree murder. He is awaiting extradition to Kansas from Missouri, according to officials. An FBI official said the agency is investigating with local police. Itβs unclear for now if Purinton will be charged with a federal hate crime. He is under a $2 million bond."
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And this man's life is over. He will either spend the rest of his life in prison or put to death. That is all we can do in society. You can blame the gun but he could have just waited for these two to step outside and ran them over with his car? You can blame alcohol but we tried prohibition already? If a person wants to be a racist how can they be stopped? All we can do is punish the guilty.
That's a defeatist attitude, in my opinion. Things like this don't happen as frequently in states with stronger gun-control laws. How reduce the occurrence of hate crime? Propagate less hate and more understanding.
-
I think the population data bears out that it does make a difference. It won't completely stop events like this, but it makes it less likely. Said another way, how do you explain that states with stricter gun laws have lower gun fatality rates?
Illinois, despite Chicago's violence, remains in the top 15 states with the lowest gun fatality rates. See, I spent 10+ years analyzing big-data in genomics so I don't look for anecdotes to drive policy, I look for trends, and the trends are pretty clear. Firearm fatalities are lower per capita in states with tighter gun restrictions. That's not debatable.
You have on the one hand, states like MA with 3 firearms-related deaths per 100,000 people, which is about the same as France and Switzerland, then on the opposite end, states like Louisiana, and Alaska, with over 20 firearms related deaths per 100,000 people, which is similar to Brazil and only better than a collection of South-American countries.
I know this is an oversimplification, but if you average the fatality rate of Democratic states, you get 9 per 100,000. Do the same for Republican states, you get 15. That's a very significant difference, and it is most likely because Democratic states have tighter gun laws. So this business about gun laws not making a difference is self-delusion even worse than mmgw denialism.
I have problems with this oversimplified analysis. Vast majority of your firearm related deaths in Louisiana for example, come from the overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled city New Orleans.
And when we do the break down by city instead of state we get a much different picture than the one you're describing.
Not to mention some of these states have like no people living in them so the few gun deaths that do occur sky rocket the gun-death per 100,000 number.
I have problems with this oversimplified analysis. Vast majority of your firearm related deaths in Louisiana for example, come from the overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled city New Orleans.
And when we do the break down by city instead of state we get a much different picture than the one you're describing.
Not to mention some of these states have like no people living in them so the few gun deaths that do occur sky rocket the gun-death per 100,000 number.
You are taking anecdote (New Orleans) to try and disprove population statistics. It's similar to pointing to a single cold winter to try and say MMGW doesn't exist.
However, using party affiliation is a poor proxy as a guess to a state's level of gun control, so I went to the trouble to make this chart. Yeah, maybe I'm bored on a Friday afternoon. What is shows is the firearm fatality rates by state, with the Brady Score of each state overlaid on top of it. Brady Score is a measure of a state's gun control laws. Higher score means more gun control law. The trendlines make it pretty clear. States with more gun control have fewer firearms fatalities.
You are correct though about smaller states, the smaller population does make the statistics for them less reliable.
Don't you think better socioeconomic conditions would have a greater and faster impact than strict gun laws though?
Again, the focus should be getting to root of the problem. That root is what drives another human being to end the life of another human being. Why are people opting to kill as opposed to civil resolution of their issues?
Strict gun laws are comparable to a bandaid on a shotgun wound. Our real trouble in this country is how we treat each other on a daily basis. We are not striving towards civilization but galloping towards barbarism and anarchy. Guns are a tool that contribute to that. However they are still tools and not the motive behind murder.
I agree that improving socio-economic conditions would have an important impact, and I'm all for it. IMO it is much harder to enact major socio-economic change than it is to have tighter gun control. I'm all for a multi-pronged approach that includes tighter access to guns and socio-economic improvement.
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Blah blah this. Blah blah that.
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Suicides count as firearm deaths, by the way.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Which account for almost 2/3 of firearm deaths. I can't find the data but I'd bet laws make little to no impact on homicides by firearm. Homicides are already illegal.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
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