DA Is Not The Problem
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\ said:
While DA is not the only problem' date=' he is a problem. There are a few flaws in what you just said.
#1: WPD has already showed that even if you gave DA those catches, and a couple of extra TDs, he'd still be at the bottom of the league in ranking (and a completion percetage still in the low 50%). Also, the drop in BALT still wasn't a TD (notice BE is getting tackled as he dropped it). So there are no guarantees there is even a score on that drive.
#2: Wasn't it Steptoe getting up in the Jax game? Wasn't it also him making plays against 3rd and 4th string DBs in preseason w/ Quinn at the helm. Yet against 3rd and 4th string DBs against BALT he can't? People said CHI had no WR and that is where WR go to die. Yet you remove strong armed, stare down, can't read a D Rex, replace him with Orton, and suddenly they can catch and make plays. Same thing in MIN and ATL. WPD has also put up the numbers to show DA goes to Winslow and BE 70% of the time. A little hard for other receivers to get involved when you barely look there way or throw there way.
#3: See the Lewis thread. Despite playing against 4 top 10 Ds, he is still in the top 15 in yards (while on the middle to lower side of # of carries to the guys above him). While DA has faced the same type of thing regarding pass Ds, yet is at the bottom of the league in completion % and QBR.
Throw in the confusion on O that one must give DA some blame for (see end of last season where guys were looking at DA and shaking their head at him, Winslow, BE, and JJ), along with the debocles of 2 minute drills this year (I mean jesus, you sneak for 1 yard, get a first with time running, your head seat goes out, and you have to go to the sidelines to ask if you should take a TO or spike the ball? Come on man. I knew that crap at 12 years old playing madden and joe montana football).
Unless Quinn is no better of a leader or student of the game than awe shucks DA, CLE fans will see a more crisp looking offense. By no means do I expect to see CLEs passing game suddenly look like it did the first 6 games of last season, but it will move the chains more this week, and the next few. At the same token, I am sure there will be some plays where Quinn will make rookie starter gaffs, just like Rogers has had this season.
You don't have to be in football or around a team to know a real leader of men when you see it. DA is not that. When your QB is not truly a general, the old "quick sand" analogy very quickly can set in. When your QB falls into that trap (which DA does), the whole offense follows.
The funny thing is, you read BEs quote today about Quinn in the huddle or what BE said before the Giants game to the sideline reporter about him in the huddle tells you the difference. Never once have I heard any Browns player talk about DAs command of the huddle, poise, or calm in the huddle. Yet that is what you hear about Quinn.
(disclaimer, I am not actually comparing Quinn to Montana with this): When players talk about the Joes first SB, they talk about even when they were down, Joe is in there joking with the guys talking about "did you see so and so celeb in the stands over there". He was relaxed and calm. That is never how I picture DA at all. I see him scrambling to look at the giant play book he carries on his arm (only QB to still be carrying one of those and dudes ain't done that in 10 years). It says a lot about him.[/quote']
#1: I did see the drop. He FELL when he dropped it, he wasn't tackled. Even if he was tackled, had he made the catch, we have momentum back and we at least kick a field goal, putting more pressure on Baltimore.
#1A: If BE and the rest of those sad sacks caught the easy passes they dropped, DA's QB rating goes up. can't have a good QB rating if they're dropping balls.
#2: You're counting preseason games? That shit doesn't count for a reason. he manned up in ONE game all season, where are we, week what? That's a weak argument.
#3: Lewis is 14th because if you look at the RB's below him, they're either back ups or starters who've missed chunks of time due to injury.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...=2&d-447263-n=1
As far as the 4th quarter blunders goes, it's on Romeo Crennell, he's a Fissle-stick up and he will be fired and we will get a MANLY coach like Marty or Cower and we'll be returned to prominence, because this team has no heart.
Blame DA all you want, but those of us that KNOW football know he's not the problem.
#1: He didn't fall. Do I need to put up the clip. You can't even assume a FG. Hell, DA could have fumbled for his upteenth time this year.
#1A: That theory has already been blow out of the water by work WPD did on this board. DA would still be near the bottom of the league.
#2: You obviously chose to selectively read only the part about Steptoe in preseason. Again, the stats show DA doesn't even look to the #2 or try to throw it that way.
#3: Really? Julius Jones is a starter in SEA, Jackson is a starter in STL, Williams in CAR, Lynch in BUF, Brown in MIA, Westbrook in PHI, James in ARZ. And the only dudes to miss time are Westbrook and Jackson (1 game each). Yup, 16 of the 32 NFL teams have an injured RB
Dude, you don't need your head coach to tell you that you spike the ball or call a TO when the clock is running down with less than a minute to go. You can put the play calls on RAC, but not knowing what to do and running to the sidelines to ask if you should spike the ball or call a TO because you headset isn't working is JV football play.
That football knowledge you are now posturing about (those that brag are generally the least knowledgable, no matter what it is they brag about) is sure not showing.
DA ain't the only problem, but he is one. Never have I seen a QB completing only 50% of his passes w/o that QB being a big part of the problem.
As to getting Marty, that crap to me is still the dubmest thing I have heard around C-Town. That would be the biggest desperation move this team could ever make. Let's reach back 20 years into the history in an effort to recapture past glory. Hell, then why don't we just suit up Jim Brown and Kosar while we are at it.
#1: I saw it live, but post the clip of him falling as he dropped the ball.
#1a: Who's WPD? Just another poster or someone on the Browns coaching staff? lol
#2: Thought I already spoke of Steptoe. He only played like a man in ONE GAME and the season's halfway done.
#3: Seattle sucks. Nuff said.
St. Louis is JUST getting their game on now that they changed coaches. And he's hurt (Dallas game).
Lynch, teams stack the line and dare Edwards to beat them with the pass. hard to run against a 9 man line.
Brown splits time with Williams.
Westbrook was hurt and out for 2 games, and is still playing hurt.
James is on the bench, Hightower is playing the majority of the time.
(my football senses are tingling)
That sideline thing happened once, because DA is loyal to this shitty coaching staff for some reason.
Marty is still a proven winner and could outcoach 95% of the NFL coaches out there. Never saw him with clock management problems or teams playing sloppy all year. Only three coaches active are doing better or are on his level. Bill B. Dungy and Fisher.
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\ said:
#1: I saw it live, but post the clip of him falling as he dropped the ball.#1a: Who's WPD? Just another poster or someone on the Browns coaching staff? lol
#2: Thought I already spoke of Steptoe. He only played like a man in ONE GAME and the season's halfway done.
#3: Seattle sucks. Nuff said.
St. Louis is JUST getting their game on now that they changed coaches. And he's hurt (Dallas game).
Lynch, teams stack the line and dare Edwards to beat them with the pass. hard to run against a 9 man line.
Brown splits time with Williams.
Westbrook was hurt and out for 2 games, and is still playing hurt.
James is on the bench, Hightower is playing the majority of the time.
(my football senses are tingling)
That sideline thing happened once, because DA is loyal to this shitty coaching staff for some reason.
Marty is still a proven winner and could outcoach 95% of the NFL coaches out there. Never saw him with clock management problems or teams playing sloppy all year. Only three coaches active are doing better or are on his level. Bill B. Dungy and Fisher.
#1: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2 ... &week=REG9
#1A: A poster on here who took the time and effort in another thread to break it down and do all the math, including QBR.
#2: Can't make plays when you never get the ball thrown your way.
#3: All of which have played in the same number of games, or less 1 game (and equal #s of carries). And if your gonna make excuses for any of those guys, then I might as well throw in the injuries on CLE OLine for excuse for Jamal. By the way, this week was the first week James got sat.
The sideline thing once, the indecision on the 2 minute drill has been every drill.
Oh, and Marty has had clock management issues. But every coach has gaffs (not that I think RAC isn't a knuckle head more times than not). Did you see BB of NE this past week?
But keep it coming Stan.
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Qb rating does not tell the entire story all stats can be spinned to make them look in favor of your argument
Jamal Lewis, 24th in the league in 1st downs made
2 rushes over 20 yards
3.6 ypc average, 18.5 carries per game, averaging 66.6 yards per game
Do you think maybe a better rushing attack would have helped D.A.
D.A. threw to Edwards and Winslow 70% of the time because Cribbs and Steptoe don't get open, we have nothing behind Edwards and Stallworth when he plays at the wide receiver position
Everyone points to the Giant game and say if we can beat the Giants like that, why can't we do that every game, maybe because we had 2 weeks to prepare for that game and we had a running game.
How many times have Lewis moved the chains when we really needed a 1st down in the Cowboys, Steelers, Redskins or Raven games?
Whats happened to the offensive line that many posters/fans were calling top 5 in the league? This offensive line is not playing anything close to how they played last year.
But nobody wants to discuss these issues and just say D.A. is the problem
IMO the problems in no particular order, Chud, RAC, Lewis, Offensive line, Andersen, no number 2 receiver
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No, we KNEW Charlie Frye couldn't play.This is funny. Might be true. But its funny.
Because DA>Charlies fries. who will say different?
Charlie fries is good enough that he got dumped by the browns and ended up starting for the seahawks who are normally better than the browns.
OR if you look at this way there are few NFL teams with less chance of permanent success than the Browns. DA will be traded to a team that Probably is better than the browns.
Only then will the book be closed on his capabilities. Feel free to disagree.
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Qb rating does not tell the entire story all stats can be spinned to make them look in favor of your argumentJamal Lewis, 24th in the league in 1st downs made
2 rushes over 20 yards
3.6 ypc average, 18.5 carries per game, averaging 66.6 yards per game
Do you think maybe a better rushing attack would have helped D.A.
D.A. threw to Edwards and Winslow 70% of the time because Cribbs and Steptoe don't get open, we have nothing behind Edwards and Stallworth when he plays at the wide receiver position
Everyone points to the Giant game and say if we can beat the Giants like that, why can't we do that every game, maybe because we had 2 weeks to prepare for that game and we had a running game.
How many times have Lewis moved the chains when we really needed a 1st down in the Cowboys, Steelers, Redskins or Raven games?
Whats happened to the offensive line that many posters/fans were calling top 5 in the league? This offensive line is not playing anything close to how they played last year.
But nobody wants to discuss these issues and just say D.A. is the problem
IMO the problems in no particular order, Chud, RAC, Lewis, Offensive line, Andersen, no number 2 receiver
Actually, WPD already blew this one up (I think in the Lewis thread). Lewis isn't getting the carries on downs often where there is the opportunity to run for a 1st on 2nd and 3d down. In the last game in the second half, he had 3 chances and was 1 for 3.
It's getting to the point where we are gonna have to dig up old threads from the offseason where people were saying DA was why Lewis had success last year. But now with lesser success, its only Lewis's fault.
And Steptoe and Cribbs have had times where they were open and DA forced it to Winslow or Edwards. One example I can think of right off the top of my head was the first BALT game when DA forced it to Winslow with double coverage, plus Ray Lewis watching (you know where he laid out Winslow and it resulted in a pick). Watch that play, there is a WR coming wide open across the middle. But DA never took his eyes of Winslow.
I really think people need to go back and read the scouting reports on DA in HS and college again. Because this stuff is all right there.
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\ said:
No, we KNEW Charlie Frye couldn't play.
This is funny. Might be true. But its funny.
Because DA>Charlies fries. who will say different?
Charlie fries is good enough that he got dumped by the browns and ended up starting for the seahawks who are normally better than the browns.
OR if you look at this way there are few NFL teams with less chance of permanent success than the Browns. DA will be traded to a team that Probably is better than the browns.
Only then will the book be closed on his capabilities. Feel free to disagree.
Frye, like DA, got his 20+ starts to try and prove himself as a starter. DA, like Frye, has proven that he has not progressed passed who he was from day 1.
I expect the common thread between both is to be that neither will be with the Browns, and both relegated to bench duty for some other team.
And what does it say when (from Phil Savages own mouth) Frye was the only one at he time that could even garner a draft pick in a trade. So that beter team, SEA, saw more in Frye than DA.
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ONB, would you please remove your post and write one that makes some modicum of sense?I was going to reply that Charlie Frye sucked, sucks, and will always suck... that he went from being a Browns starter to a Seahawks third stringer behind a 5'10" punt returner... but then I realized you weren't really saying anything about anything.
So never mind.
Do the ORE trail ever saying anything about anything?
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Just read a tidbit that personnel types around the league say you know what you get when you face DA: Big arm, not a lot of confidence, not a quick or good decision maker... and worst of all... leaves more plays on the field than any quarterback in the league.Plays into what Masters said and we've all watched: He locks in on one guy and we Tivo users get to point out Kellen Winslow waving his arms (again) or Syndric Steptoe flashing open across the middle.
Exactly Shep.
Since you enjoyed my earlier quotes from Jason, here is a snipit from last DEC after the PIT game, which he just reposted at the begining of OCT this year, because it rang true almost a year later.
"Derrick Anderson has a lot of things going for him. He's big. He's got a fantastic arm. And he's got a bit of that "Aw, Shucks" thing going for him right now. The problem is, he's always had those things. He hasn't added a thing to his arsenal since the 11th grade.
The downgrades on his scouting report coming out of high school were the same as the ones on his scouting reports coming out of college. If you go back and read some of these things, you'll see the same stuff over and over. And, based on what I see, none of it has changed. It still sounds like any of it could've been written yesterday.
"His decision-making is suspect." "He has a tendency to be very deliberate with his delivery." "Gets an unusual number of passes batted down at the line for a guy his size." "Tends to try to 'rocket arm balls' into tight spaces." "Makes ill-advised throws." "Has difficulty making accurate throws in close quarters." "Over-powers balls on short throws." "Lacks mobility." "Can get flustered." "Tends to sail intermediate throws."
And those didn't even point out the fact that his arm amps up when the pressure sets in. That's tough to itemize on a scouting report.
Basically, the guy's a 6'6" Jugs machine. Sure he can throw the ball 70 yards. And as long as he can set up and throw from 6 yards deep on the midline, you've got no problems. But, Pittsburgh figured it out by halftime. Lay off the blitz. Play 3 down 8 back, or 4 down 7 back, and cover until the pass rush can move him. You're either going to bait him into a bad throw, knock it down at the line, get to him in the pocket... or at worst, make him make a great throw to beat you.
And it worked. The second half of the game, you saw Anderson trying to thread balls into tight spaces downfield, and gradually becoming less and less accurate hitting his check-downs... although he'd been missing those since early in the game.
So, what I'm saying is, if this team goes 9-7 or 10-6 and squeaks into the playoffs, that's great. But, I won't be at all surprised or offended if the front office immediately packages this guy and ships him off to Atlanta or Minnesota.
What you've got here is a guy who's performing about as well as he can. And, a guy who's never shown a real penchant for improvement."
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\ said:
Since you enjoyed my earlier quotes from Jason, here is a snipit from last DEC after the PIT game, which he just reposted at the begining of OCT this year, because it rang true almost a year later."Derrick Anderson has a lot of things going for him. He's big. He's got a fantastic arm. And he's got a bit of that "Aw, Shucks" thing going for him right now. The problem is, he's always had those things. He hasn't added a thing to his arsenal since the 11th grade.
The downgrades on his scouting report coming out of high school were the same as the ones on his scouting reports coming out of college. If you go back and read some of these things, you'll see the same stuff over and over. And, based on what I see, none of it has changed. It still sounds like any of it could've been written yesterday.
"His decision-making is suspect." "He has a tendency to be very deliberate with his delivery." "Gets an unusual number of passes batted down at the line for a guy his size." "Tends to try to 'rocket arm balls' into tight spaces." "Makes ill-advised throws." "Has difficulty making accurate throws in close quarters." "Over-powers balls on short throws." "Lacks mobility." "Can get flustered." "Tends to sail intermediate throws."
And those didn't even point out the fact that his arm amps up when the pressure sets in. That's tough to itemize on a scouting report.
Basically, the guy's a 6'6" Jugs machine. Sure he can throw the ball 70 yards. And as long as he can set up and throw from 6 yards deep on the midline, you've got no problems. But, Pittsburgh figured it out by halftime. Lay off the blitz. Play 3 down 8 back, or 4 down 7 back, and cover until the pass rush can move him. You're either going to bait him into a bad throw, knock it down at the line, get to him in the pocket... or at worst, make him make a great throw to beat you.
And it worked. The second half of the game, you saw Anderson trying to thread balls into tight spaces downfield, and gradually becoming less and less accurate hitting his check-downs... although he'd been missing those since early in the game.
So, what I'm saying is, if this team goes 9-7 or 10-6 and squeaks into the playoffs, that's great. But, I won't be at all surprised or offended if the front office immediately packages this guy and ships him off to Atlanta or Minnesota.
What you've got here is a guy who's performing about as well as he can. And, a guy who's never shown a real penchant for improvement."
He's obviously a BQ fag, because not one single thing that he said is remotely close to being true.
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#1. Charlie Frye could play - but he doesn't have the arm to be very successful with defenses that plot against him.
Otherwise, he moves outstanding with his feet, scrambles like crazy, throws accurately on the run, and generally
makes good decisions if given a chance. Frye gave 100% even while getting the (*^%*&^% kicked out of him because of the oline.
He stared down his receivers because he had no time to look around.
#2 DA has a superstar caliber cannon arm, but he is so unathletic, he can't gage short throws with any kind of accuracy or
touch on the ball. He has lead feet. With a terrific oline, at least on one side now, he doesn't move well at all, buckles
under pressure, fires dump off passes as hard as he throws 30 yards downfield, stares down his receivers for as long as
his excellent protection might last, makes some of the worst, most stupid decisions with no pressure at all, inexplicably
throws INTs so ridiculous you wonder if he is color blind like Vinny "FlunkedtheTest"everde. DA's throws into the dirt, into the
stratusphere, behind the wr's, reek of a guy who is such a wimp he's afraid of getting hit. And his last int? Like, "NO, DON'T HIT ME,
I GOT RID OF THE BALL TO YOUR TEAM" Give us all a break. DA sucks, even with terrific protection and his cannon arm. blech.
DA doesn't seem to give a )(&^(*&^ about his performances, doesn't seem to get it. We don't have a receiver better than Edwards
to replace him with.
We HAVE a better qb in Quinn, who doesn't seem to have ANY weaknesses in his game, IMHO. We'll find out, though a bit too late to
save the season as far as winning the div or getting a wild card. Seems that Quinn can do it all, everything, and he freakin sees the field
very dang quickly.
Meanwhile, Shep used to slurp all over DA and his cannon arm. Those days are finally over.
I'm starting Quinn just so he can win me a SECOND game in ff football. "sigh"
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\ said:
#1. Charlie Frye could play - but he doesn't have the arm to be very successful with defenses that plot against him.Otherwise, he moves outstanding with his feet, scrambles like crazy, throws accurately on the run, and generally
makes good decisions if given a chance. Frye gave 100% even while getting the (*^%*&^% kicked out of him because of the oline.
He stared down his receivers because he had no time to look around.
#2 DA has a superstar caliber cannon arm, but he is so unathletic, he can't gage short throws with any kind of accuracy or
touch on the ball. He has lead feet. With a terrific oline, at least on one side now, he doesn't move well at all, buckles
under pressure, fires dump off passes as hard as he throws 30 yards downfield, stares down his receivers for as long as
his excellent protection might last, makes some of the worst, most stupid decisions with no pressure at all, inexplicably
throws INTs so ridiculous you wonder if he is color blind like Vinny "FlunkedtheTest"everde. DA's throws into the dirt, into the
stratusphere, behind the wr's, reek of a guy who is such a wimp he's afraid of getting hit. And his last int? Like, "NO, DON'T HIT ME,
I GOT RID OF THE BALL TO YOUR TEAM" Give us all a break. DA sucks, even with terrific protection and his cannon arm. blech.
DA doesn't seem to give a )(&^(*&^ about his performances, doesn't seem to get it. We don't have a receiver better than Edwards
to replace him with.
We HAVE a better qb in Quinn, who doesn't seem to have ANY weaknesses in his game, IMHO. We'll find out, though a bit too late to
save the season as far as winning the div or getting a wild card. Seems that Quinn can do it all, everything, and he freakin sees the field
very dang quickly.
Meanwhile, Shep used to slurp all over DA and his cannon arm. Those days are finally over.
I'm starting Quinn just so he can win me a SECOND game in ff football. "sigh"
I can see why some go wow with DA's arm. I mean he can throw a prety ball and has a rocket. Then again, you can put a jug machine back there and get the same thing.
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