With the Twelfth pick ......
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My bet is that Foster goes @ 11 to N.O. so if we want him we need to trade up to 9-10. N.O. needs a dominant player like that in the middle of that sieve.
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12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
I like your last sentence, and I'll also add Corey Davis to the end of it. There's been speculation that we're very high on Davis, and our radio boys mentioned yesterday that he's a growing possibility mentioned around league sources. You want some good news about #12? Every year things shake out differently than people expect (mainly due to the inexact nature and unpredictability of trades), so there's reason to believe at least ONE of the guys you mentioned will slip to us at 12. Another reason one of those guys will slip to us? Quarterbacks. Forget what everyone is saying about the QB class being weak, and maybe only two QB's being selected in the first round. The NFL is such a QB driven league, and there are so many teams desperate enough for a QB, that SOMEONE will take at LEAST one QB people don't expect in the top ten. There will be a trade into top ten, or a team will flat out draft a guy because teams need QB's. Remember that year when Blake Bortles was drafted so early, and many analysts predicted that there wouldn't be a QB taken that early? Something like that will happen this year, I can almost promise. Teams will panic and overdraft their QB...happens all of the time. I seriously think that one of the guys we mentioned will be there for us, Mud. I doubt it's Howard, and it won't be either of the safeties, but possibly Foster due to injury concerns and his latest allegation of acting like an asshole.
I honestly think we NEED a potential offensive playmaker at 12 because the loss of Pryor is that devastating, but I wouldn't be opposed to going defense-defense. Reuben Foster, Kirksey, and Collins as your linebackers is potentially dominant for years to come, and you still have Garrett and Ogbah as your ends, and Shelton and Desmond Bryant starting inside. All of the sudden we have the beginning of a defense we can be PROUD of...remember that? Something else to consider, although I REALLY don't see it happening, is considering Jonathan Allen at #12. Before you laugh me off the thread, the latest sentiment appears to be Allen sliding away from the top 10. Maybe because of the shoulder concerns, maybe because he didn't test as well, but I've definitely been seeing a trend that shows Allen sliding. AGAIN....I DON'T see it happening, as Allen's production and skill level is just too pervasive, but...every year a guy slides a bit more than people think because teams overdraft QB's. Being at pick #12...we could be the beneficiary of that phenomenon.
EDIT: The mock draft on this link is interesting as well. Something else to consider is the unpredictability of drafting running backs. This year we have three of the absolute best RB's I've seen in years...and possibly the best group of RB's in decades. Leonard Fournette, Dalvin Cook, and Joe Mixon are the top three, and many people believe that Mixon is actually the best talent out of ALL of them, but his nightmarish domestic incident makes him near impossible to draft in the top ten. That being said, I've seen Fournette and Cook ALL OVER the place, with some mocks having BOTH going top ten, and other mocks having Fournette actually sliding OUT of the first round! Now, I think that's ridiculous, but whatever. Fournette is 240 pounds and ran a 4.5 40. Cook, my FSU boy, needs no introduction. Pay no attention to his 40 times, his shuttle times, or his vertical leap. The kid benched 225 pounds 22 times and had more game-breaking long runs than almost anyone I can remember watching. The combination of these elite running backs and teams overdrafting quarterbacks will result in ONE of the guys we want falling to us at #12. I know it. We're getting Myles Garrett, and some other stud at 12. Wanna know who we're getting at #33? Try Joe Mixon. Then with Titans' 2nd rounder, we'll go safety or corner. Below is the mock I mentioned.
If you don't want to click on the link, it has the Browns picking Myles Garrett, OJ Howard, Cam Robinson, and Davis Webb in first two rounds. I'm ok with all the picks, but would rather pick our QB in round 3 if we think we can get our guy there. Not sure Webb needs to be taken that early. Even so, our first four picks give us the best pass rusher, the best tight end, possible best OT, and our potential future QB. That's....pretty effing efficient.
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12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
The remainder of the list are a simple combo of talent as I see it and the gap in quality of the consolation prizes I see in Round 2.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
(damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
That there is the kind of circular set up Kirk used to blow up Nomad... "Must sterilize!"
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
The remainder of the list are a simple combo of talent as I see it and the gap in quality of the consolation prizes I see in Round 2.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
(damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
That there is the kind of circular set up Kirk used to blow up Nomad... "Must sterilize!"
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
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Anything but a QB
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O.J. Howard in NFL Draft 2017: 5 reasons the Browns should pick him
http://www.cleveland.com/nfl-draft/index.ssf/2017/04/oj_howard_innfl_draft_20175_re.html1. Mismatch for opponents
2. Big play ability
3. Capable blocker
4. Cost savings
5. Good in short yardage
============================================================================
No real surprises, although #4 is a tad cold-blooded. Does seem like they struggled to come up with a 5th reason.
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#3 is an understatement
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Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
Garrett Allen Danny and Ogbah would be insane. If we got our LB average or slightly above we could possibly have the best front seven in the league.Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
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Garrett Allen Danny and Ogbah would be insane. If we got our LB average or slightly above we could possibly have the best front seven in the league.Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
If we got our LB average or slightly above we could possibly have the best front seven in the league.
Collins and Kirksey are both near-Pro-Bowl players.. they'd both start on any team other than the Panthers [Kuechly/Davis/Thompson]
Kirksey was 3rd in the NFL in tackles last season with 148. Suffice it to say he outperformed his Madden 17 rating of 74..
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Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone.
Not a big disagreement, but do you really think that Solomon is big enough to play inside starting Day one?
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Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone.
Not a big disagreement, but do you really think that Solomon is big enough to play inside starting Day one?
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And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
The remainder of the list are a simple combo of talent as I see it and the gap in quality of the consolation prizes I see in Round 2.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
(damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
That there is the kind of circular set up Kirk used to blow up Nomad... "Must sterilize!"
And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
Gotta say that Foster was(is) high on my list too......BUT, when i have that list of elites, then it's usually minor things that can differentiate between the best and next best candidates.....and(for me) Foster has a couple negatives that Im not finding with the other candidates.....
#1 - not a position of need, compared to the others.....DE - DT - FS -SS - CB.......>>>>>....then ILB....and thats a biggie, when those "need" guys are there
#2 - he seems like a prick. And I understand he can be a prick and still be a great player....but is he the type of prick we want added to our team?......Im not sure, either way....which raises some concern(that I dont have with the others)......
perhaps the type of concern that can prevent a consensus??
Im down with your thoughts on WR.....In the end, I highly doubt I could actually pull the trigger on WR at 12
O.J. Howard in NFL Draft 2017: 5 reasons the Browns should pick him
http://www.cleveland.com/nfl-draft/index.ssf/2017/04/oj_howard_innfl_draft_20175_re.html
I would say it's hard to find reasons NOT to draft him.....
Take a look and see hat you think. Seems pretty damn stout/quick to get through gaps.
Looks good to me .......I think he'd do fine inside.....
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I simply don't see a 273# DT surviving a year in the NFL trenches. Maybe someday as his body matures I move him inside, but in my 2017 base, he's a DE.
Situational packages? By all means... step on in... except goalline...
If Foster is only a prick to opponents and candy-strippers... I can live with that. Before the Combine thing, when he his interview clock was running as he waited for medical procedures, did anyone hear he had temper issues? I didn't...
As for need... here comes my sermon again... it's a tiebreaker... period. So when I recognized Adams' and Foster's leadership potential and "attytude" infusion they separated themselves in my mind from the other names I like at 12. They became a subset group of two. Within their new group SS>MLB
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I know I've seen Jonathan Allen slightly start to slide in the eyes of the "experts", but I have to believe that's total garbage. He might not be #2 anymore, or maybe he is, but I really don't see him escaping the top 5 or 6. His production was simply too massive, and the fact that he played for Alabama places him at near God like status in the eyes of many talent evaluators who LOVE the SEC. That being said, if I'm somehow wrong, I'd absolutely KILL to have both him and Garrett on day 1. It'd be the "A++" first round draft grade. Also, if one of the QB's we happen to like is still on the board in the low 20's, watch for us to attempt to trade in front of Houston and come away with three first round players. I'm not sure I'd necessarily AGREE with this, but then again, if Hue Jackson feels our QB of the future is there to go and get, I guess I'd have to understand. Right now, my favorite QB is Mitchell Trubisky. He's not going to last that long, and I keep going back to Deshaun Watson. I understand his throwing velocity was scary awful, and I get that he played in a wonky offensive system, and I also understand that he played with good talent that bailed him out all too often...but I keep wondering if Watson is just "a guy who can play the game", and someone who rises above the measureables. The guy I compare him to is Russell Wilson. As I've said before, I watched Russell Wilson terrify Florida State for years, and then I watched him kick MORE ass playing for Wisconsin. I was SCREAMING to draft this guy because he was someone who just appeared to know how to play the damn game. He was short, and scouts wanted to know how in the hell he'd see over the OL. Teams couldn't get over things like small hands (not sure of his hand size, just an example), being under a certain height, or whatever else. Now, Russell was a totally different player than Watson, and I get that. Russell has a very accurate, quick-paced throwing style. Watson does not. However, I keep thinking that what Watson did in college on the biggest stage...might mean more than some people think. And I get that the NFL is littered with college players who dominated the field, but can't get off the bench in the pros. I get that Tim Tebow dominated college football and eventually flamed out. I know I'm rambling, but I can see a situation where Watson turns into a solid player because of aspects that can't be measured in testing.
EDIT: One more thing, Mud. I think one of your guys will be available to us for the reasons I mentioned in my first rambling response, LOL, PLUS the fact Hassan Reddick has a chance to go in the top 11. I've been reading more and more about him, and teams seem to be interested in what he brings to the table.
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I know I've seen Jonathan Allen slightly start to slide in the eyes of the "experts", but I have to believe that's total garbage. He might not be #2 anymore, or maybe he is, but I really don't see him escaping the top 5 or 6. His production was simply too massive, and the fact that he played for Alabama places him at near God like status in the eyes of many talent evaluators who LOVE the SEC. That being said, if I'm somehow wrong, I'd absolutely KILL to have both him and Garrett on day 1. It'd be the "A++" first round draft grade. Also, if one of the QB's we happen to like is still on the board in the low 20's, watch for us to attempt to trade in front of Houston and come away with three first round players. I'm not sure I'd necessarily AGREE with this, but then again, if Hue Jackson feels our QB of the future is there to go and get, I guess I'd have to understand. Right now, my favorite QB is Mitchell Trubisky. He's not going to last that long, and I keep going back to Deshaun Watson. I understand his throwing velocity was scary awful, and I get that he played in a wonky offensive system, and I also understand that he played with good talent that bailed him out all too often...but I keep wondering if Watson is just "a guy who can play the game", and someone who rises above the measureables. The guy I compare him to is Russell Wilson. As I've said before, I watched Russell Wilson terrify Florida State for years, and then I watched him kick MORE ass playing for Wisconsin. I was SCREAMING to draft this guy because he was someone who just appeared to know how to play the damn game. He was short, and scouts wanted to know how in the hell he'd see over the OL. Teams couldn't get over things like small hands (not sure of his hand size, just an example), being under a certain height, or whatever else. Now, Russell was a totally different player than Watson, and I get that. Russell has a very accurate, quick-paced throwing style. Watson does not. However, I keep thinking that what Watson did in college on the biggest stage...might mean more than some people think. And I get that the NFL is littered with college players who dominated the field, but can't get off the bench in the pros. I get that Tim Tebow dominated college football and eventually flamed out. I know I'm rambling, but I can see a situation where Watson turns into a solid player because of aspects that can't be measured in testing.
EDIT: One more thing, Mud. I think one of your guys will be available to us for the reasons I mentioned in my first rambling response, LOL, PLUS the fact Hassan Reddick has a chance to go in the top 11. I've been reading more and more about him, and teams seem to be interested in what he brings to the table.
... I keep going back to Deshaun Watson.
Ditto... but not at 12...
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Attaboy, Terry...
Cleveland Browns please, PLEASE don't force quarterback issue in draft! -- Terry Pluto (video, photos)
Cleveland Browns: Terry Pluto says, let's think defense during the draft
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 07, 2017 at 6:31 AM, updated April 07, 2017 at 6:36 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Do the Cleveland Browns need to take a quarterback in the 2017 NFL Draft?Absolutely, positively ... yes ... with an asterisk.
The asterisk is not with the No. 1 or No. 12 picks.
Maybe I'm having quarterback fatigue. Or maybe I'm just coming to my senses.
But the quarterback obsession will lead to some horrible first-round picks in this draft.
I don't want the Browns making that mistake.
I have some other ideas.
Let's talk about it!
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/04/cleveland_browns_pleasepleased.html
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We should only draft a QB if we trade down from 12 to 22 first
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... I keep going back to Deshaun Watson.
Ditto... but not at 12...
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solomon thomas is NOT a DT. Why on earth would any of you want a guy like that rushing from the inside which isn't his forte? IF we were to draft Thomas at 12, which he won't be there but if, he would be the other DE opposite Garrett. Even if Thomas slides to 12 we'd be dumbasses to draft him instead of taking Howard or one of those ridiculous safeties.
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