OK, just announce we're taking Garrett....

Tour2ma

@clevfan4life said:
Yes we did move down in the draft that year, moved right out if the watkins-mack sweepstakes and landed us some justin gilbert

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a previous FO?

Feel free to treat the above question as rhetorical...

Clevfan4life

@tour2ma said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a previous FO?

Feel free to treat the above question as rhetorical...

I was just correcting the guy who thought we stayed at our pick that year to take gilbert, we didnt....we moved down instead ofvtaking mack or watkins.

Tour2ma

Ah... there are many routes to wrong...

Meanwhile back at the thread....

This tweet preceded BR's latest prospect rankings:

Matt Miller: How good is @MylesLGarrett? I gave him the third-highest grade I've ever given a player (Luck, Von Miller)

Then this is from his rankings for the 2017 Edge Prospect Class:

NFL Draft 400: Ranking the Draft's Top Edge-Rushers
Matt Miller NFL Draft Lead WriterApril 13, 2017

1. Myles Garrett, Texas A&M

PRO COMPARISON: Julius Peppers, Carolina Panthers
FINAL GRADE: 8.50/9.00 (All-Pro Talent—No. 1 Pick)

A three-year starter at Texas A&M, Myles Garrett is the prototype at defensive end. At 6'4" and 272 pounds, he has excellent strength, speed and a massive wingspan with 35 ¼-inch arms and 10 ¼-inch hands. Garrett's power shows on the field and in the weight room. Most long-armed players struggle in the bench press, but he rocked out 33 reps at the combine.

On the field, you can see him pressing blockers off his frame (see UCLA) to get to the ball-carrier. Garrett has eye-popping burst and short-area quickness, showing fantastic footwork and balance. He's fast enough to play in pursuit and will run backs down from behind. Garrett is one of the freakiest athletes seen in the last six years, and the tape and his workouts back it up.

A scheme-versatile talent, he can play with his hand in the dirt or standing up off the edge. He also has value as an interior pass-rusher in nickel situations if desired. Garrett has one of the highest grades ever assigned—behind only Von Miller and Patrick Peterson in the last seven drafts. His combination of athleticism, production and potential make him a no-doubt No. 1 overall pick.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687983-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-edge-rushers

TexasAg1969

Baby Watt is bigger than I thought he was. Definitely worth a look.

Tour2ma

Pollian was on NFL Insiders yesterday. As best I can remember he basically said,

"There can only be one reason there's noise coming out of Cleveland about being interested in more than one player at #1. They are creating a market for the Garrett pick. If you know who you want, then you sit quietly until you take him."

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Pollian was on NFL Insiders yesterday. As best I can remember he basically said,

"There can only be one reason there's noise coming out of Cleveland about being interested in more than one player at #1. They are creating a market for the Garrett pick. If you know who you want, then you sit quietly until you take him."

Meaning, apparently that they are not completely sold on Garrett? And have no apparent compunction about trading out of the slot and not getting him?

TexasAg1969

@the-gipper said:
Meaning, apparently that they are not completely sold on Garrett? And have no apparent compunction about trading out of the slot and not getting him?

Now who is putting thoughts inside the FO minds? Or is that just an opinion?

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:
Meaning, apparently that they are not completely sold on Garrett? And have no apparent compunction about trading out of the slot and not getting him?

Couple plausible answers...

First, it's not necessarily that we are "not sold"; we just may still be deeper in the pick accumulation mode than many of us hope.

In last nite's mock while we were on the clock at #1, "we got a call" from the Titans offering us #5 and #18 for #1 and #33...

Interesting note: they actually fucked up the scenario and treated the offer as #5, #18 and #33 for our #1... we still turned it down.

Anyway Polian's (acting as Sashi) reasoning for rejecting the offer was along the following lines:

We lose Garrett.
Dropping to #5 puts us ahead of the Jets for now for "our QB", but there's no guarantee NYJ stays put.
We lose Garrett, the clear, #1, game-changing prospect in this draft.
We already have 4 picks in the first two rounds... plus the #65.

Savage, acting as our Head of Player Personnel, asked, "If we trade down with it in mind to take Trubisky at #5, why wouldn't we just take him at #1?"

Polian's answer was, "Good question. The answer to which is: Garrett."

The second plausible answer... and I pray I'm not right about this one... is that we simply have been unable to a consense on a pick at #1. I've beat the consensus-approach drum for a long time... maybe now it's hitting me back.

If Hue, representing the coaching staff, is currently dug into a position disagreeing with the FO, then there is no consensus at the top of our board. Since I've maintained, loudly and longly, that Sashi is not "the decider", as in he will not pick one player over another, the only option is to trade the pick... a decision he would make... if he has to.

Our FO is set up to be a learning organization. One of those lessons, sooner or later, will be the cost of not coming to a consensus. That cost is potentially not getting either of the players between whom the organization as a whole is split.

Putting out "feelers" now for trading the #1 is a way for Sashi to increase the pressure to come to a consensus on the pick. It most likely is a tactic that will only work if the minority position, presumably per "reports" Hue's Staff's position, relents and consents to the majority, FO view. I say this because it is far more likely that at least one member of that majority will be so firmly dug in that he/they will not consent, even if others currently in the majority eventually do.

Let's say the feelers produce a Titans offer of the #5 and #18 for the #1. Then Sashi has two options to bring back to the table for the consensus process:

Garrett vs the 5 + 18, and
Trubs vs. the 5 + 18.

A consensus may form around one of the options in one of the pairs. So they may emerge united with either a player or an additional 1st round pick.

If it's the later, then they wash, rinse and repeat... while I drink... heavily...

I have never said it was easy for organizations to learn.

Tour2ma

@texasag1969 said:
Now who is putting thoughts inside the FO minds? Or is that just an opinion?

Not that you're wrong generally speaking... Gip obviously has a major blind spot when it comes to projecting his views... but I don't see it as the case here.

Here I see him genuinely asking a question. A question I'd yet to ask. Had I not, then I would not have spent 20 minutes formulating an answer seen above. A five minute, one-part answer that grew when I had an "oh shit" moment.

The Gipper

@texasag1969 said:

Now who is putting thoughts inside the FO minds? Or is that just an opinion?

It is attempt to try to interpret what Polan said about the Browns. HE was the one trying to get inside the minds of the Browns FO.

So, go ahead and tell me what YOU interpret about Polian's statement.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Not that you're wrong generally speaking... Gip obviously has a major blind spot when it comes to projecting his views... but I don't see it as the case here.

Here I see him genuinely asking a question. A question I'd yet to ask. Had I not, then I would not have spent 20 minutes formulating an answer seen above. A five minute, one-part answer that grew when I had an "oh shit" moment.

I think you gave a very good answer to a complex issue.

But I don't have a blind spot...quite the contrary. If anyone here has been open to different scenarios, it is I.

I may want a guy....but I have been open to all other possibilities. The trade up, the trade down, taking this guy, taking that guy.

And at the same time being the one to acknowledge that what I, you, or anyone on here thinks does not amount to a cabbage fart in the opinion of the Browns FO.

Tour2ma

Many times, I get no sense of "openess".

Some of those times the odor of Devil's Advocacy, a/k/a shit stirring, is quite strong...

Some of the other times, when you accuse someone of doing something you yourself do in the same post, then I think blindspot is more than applicable...

For course, that's just my opinion... and a few dozen others...

Clevfan4life

So we're really trying to get the 1 AND the 2?

Tour2ma

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Many times, I get no sense of "openess".

Because you see things in tunnel vision and only through the scope of your own opinion likely.

If you disagree with me, or I disagree with you, ergo I am not "open"....when in fact, the opposite is true.

Some of those times the odor of Devil's Advocacy, a/k/a shit stirring, is quite strong...

That could happen occasionally, certainly.

Some of the other times, when you accuse someone of doing something you yourself do in the same post, then I think blindspot is more than applicable...

Being an asshole? Sure I tell people they are an asshole. And I admit that I am an asshole at times. But at least I admit it.

For course, that's just my opinion... and a few dozen others...

Again....it all because I disagree with your opinion. And apparently you can't stomach that....and you can't let it go and you extrapolate that to anything and everything I do. Its called being small.

Of course I could probably nit pick, and second guess and gripe and harp on many of your posts and much of your attitude, but I generally don't....except possibly in reaction to the nitpicking and griping and harping and second guessing to my posts.

So, if you think you are fucking infallible, it is not the case. Its just that I am not interested enough to spend my time nitpicking and griping and harping about your inaccuracies or about your opinions.

I point out that an opinion is an opinion when it is an opinion, and that is about it.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

Of course I could probably nit pick, and second guess and gripe and harp on many of your posts and much of your attitude, but I generally don't....except possibly in reaction to the nitpicking and griping and harping and second guessing to my posts.

So, if you think you are fucking infallible, it is not the case. Its just that I am not interested enough to spend my time nitpicking and griping and harping about your inaccuracies or about your opinions.

I point out that an opinion is an opinion when it is an opinion, and that is about it.

OK... I tried... it's just too fucking hard.

When you purposely (I can only assume) conflate my opinion observations of you with our many other dissenting views opinions and then attack... that's it.

Back to the Ghoolie zone... but before you go, here's a parting thought for you...

When an opinion is shared by an overwhelming majority, while it is still not a fact... it's as close to a certainty as an opinion can get.

____________________________

Edited for word choice....

TexasAg1969

And here is someone else's opinion about the Browns and their possible non-consensus this close to the draft. Believe me it is shared by many in Aggieland who do not want Garrett to every see the light of day in the Factory of Sadness on the Lake. The risks are too high that he gets all the blame if they continue their screwed up ways of playing football. I'm one of the few that thinks he can be a major building block of a deep turnaround. I catch a lot of shit from friends who would rather see him in SF. I defend the Browns more often than you might otherwise believe. Those folks would be elated if the Browns fuck this up and take a pass on him.

https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/myles-garrett-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

OK... I tried... it's just too fucking hard.

When you purposely (I can only assume) conflate my opinion of you with our many other dissenting views and then attack... that's it.

Back to the Ghoolie zone... but before you go, here's a parting thought for you...

When an opinion is shared by an overwhelming majority, while it is still not a fact... it's as close to a certainty as an opinion can get.

It is still just an opinion. And an opinion is not fact. And again.....my point is proven. You apparently are intolerant of other's differring opinions. And putting me on ignore is your loss, not mine.

But congratulations on living in the land where everyone smells each other's butts and thinks it is roses.

To summarize with a parting thought:

You think, apparently that Garrett is infallible, that he is Jesus Christ almighty and there cannot be any faith but faith in that.

I say, maybe, but maybe not. I do not share your religion of certainty. I am a doubting Thomas. (even Christianity had one of those)

I say that MT is a risk worth taking, as a franchise QB potential. But I don't think he walks on water. I acknowledge his fallibility. I say that getting both he and Garrett if it can be worked out would be the prime objective.

But you seem to be of a religion of extremists.....and can't abide dissent.

But, you see, I live by the creed of my avatar: In paraphrase: The Gipper Abides.

The Gipper

@texasag1969 said:

And here is someone else's opinion about the Browns and their possible non-consensus this close to the draft. Believe me it is shared by many in Aggieland who do not want Garrett to every see the light of day in the Factory of Sadness on the Lake. The risks are too high that he gets all the blame if they continue their screwed up ways of playing football. I'm one of the few that thinks he can be a major building block of a deep turnaround. I catch a lot of shit from friends who would rather see him in SF. I defend the Browns more often than you might otherwise believe. Those folks would be elated if the Browns fuck this up and take a pass on him.

https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/myles-garrett-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft

He could be a building block. So could others. In fact, many others have to be. One defender is not the be all and end all. We would also need that QB.

That is all....except:

You should know by now that Browns fans don't give a shit what fans of other teams think....be they 49er fans, Aggie fans, and particularly Steeler/Ravens/Bengal fans.

(though...they may be right about the kind of pressure that would be on him)

RoyceRolls

@the-gipper said:
Of course I could probably nit pick, and second guess and gripe and harp on many of your posts and much of your attitude

. Really, you could?! The Gipper I know would never nit pick anything! BTW the browns moved to Baltimore.