OK, just announce we're taking Garrett....
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And Gip doesn't understand the difference between a franchise and a team. the TEAM moved, you can keep all your legal technicality, intellectual property rat shit.
When people talk about the Bernie Kosar teams in Cleveland, they aren't talking about logos or mascots or stats or records. They're talking about the actual talent, the players, the coaches, the moving parts that dictate the product on the field.
The TEAM moved to Baltimore. I know you'll respond as if it's a black and white matter, but not everyone uses the same criteria that you do, and that's ok, Gipper.....it's ok
No need to reply with the obligatory Gipper gaslight, hitler-dick ego trip that will spin us into a nuclear winter of stale Browns board dick measuring but of course we all know what's coming.
No need to reply with the obligatory Gipper gaslight, hitler-dick ego trip that will spin us into a nuclear winter of stale Browns board dick measuring but of course we all know what's coming.
... and he thinks I'm harsh...Guess I did have a 5 year stroke
Anyone who can stroke it for 5 years running should be called, Sir...
.. and you can blame Royce for bringing up "dicks"...
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And here is someone else's opinion about the Browns and their possible non-consensus this close to the draft. Believe me it is shared by many in Aggieland who do not want Garrett to every see the light of day in the Factory of Sadness on the Lake. The risks are too high that he gets all the blame if they continue their screwed up ways of playing football. I'm one of the few that thinks he can be a major building block of a deep turnaround. I catch a lot of shit from friends who would rather see him in SF. I defend the Browns more often than you might otherwise believe. Those folks would be elated if the Browns fuck this up and take a pass on him.
https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/myles-garrett-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft
How many of them still think we fucked up Manziel?
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More words of wisdom from Terrry Pluto...
Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' quarterbacks and more quarterbacks
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 15, 2017 at 7:10 AM, updated April 15, 2017 at 7:13 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is it safer to pick someone other than a quarterback at No. 1 in the NFL Draft?
The obvious answer is, "It depends what quarterbacks are available."
I checked the last 20 years of drafts, and here is what happened to non-quarterbacks who were the top picks:
1996: Keyshawn Johnson picked by the New York Jets. He made three Pro Bowls, caught 814 passes. He was an excellent receiver for years.
1997: Orlando Pace picked by the Rams. The Ohio State product was selected to the Hall of Fame in 2016 because of his great play as a left tackle.
2000: Courtney Brown picked by the Browns. Browns fans know the story of the defensive end from Penn State. He had decent rookie year. Major injuries followed, including microfracture knee surgery. He had 4.5 sacks in his first five games of 2001 before suffering his first big knee injury. He played 60 games in six years, never was the same after that initial knee problem.
2006: Mario Williams picked by Houston. He has made four Pro Bowls. He was a very good pass rusher from 2006-14.
2008: Jake Long picked by Miami. The left tackle made four Pro Bowls in his first four seasons. But major injuries began in 2012. His career hit a wall after that.
2013: Eric Fisher picked by Kansas City. The left tackle has not made a Pro Bowl. He had a slow start to his career but has developed into a good starter. The Chiefs re-signed him to a four-year, $48 million extension in 2016. At that point, he was the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL.
2014: Jadeveon Clowney picked by Houston. He made the 2016 Pro Bowl. He had knee problems as a rookie, starting only two games. It wasn't until 2016 that he began to show why the Texans made him the top pick. He made second-team All-NFL by Associated Press. He's only 24, so more good stuff should be coming if he stays healthy.
What's the point?
1. Five of the seven non-quarterbacks picked at top of the draft have made Pro Bowls.
2. Fisher was the top pick in the awful 2013 draft. At least he is a viable starter and has been rewarded with a contract extension. Six of the top 10 picks in 2013 are with different teams, including Browns selection of Barkevious Mingo. No. 2 pick Luke Joeckel has had major knee problems. No. 3 pick Dion Jordan has been a nightmare with suspensions, etc.
3. Besides Fisher, the other top pick not to make a Pro Bowl was Courtney Brown.
4. This data makes a strong case for Myles Garrett being the safest move at the top of the draft. That's especially true because the defensive end from Texas A&M is viewed as the consensus best player in the draft by the majority of draft experts. This is not like 2013, when no one was especially sure who to take at No. 1.
SKIPPING A QUARTERBACK AT NO. 1
In 2014 (Clowney), the top three quarterbacks picked were Blake Bortles (No. 3, Jacksonville), Johnny Manziel (No. 22, Browns) and Teddy Twatwater (No. 32, Minnesota). Browns fans know the Manziel story. Bortles is struggling as a starter with Jacksonville. Bridgewater showed promise as a starter until suffering a major knee injury last season.
In 2013 (Eric Fisher), the top three quarterbacks picked were E.J. Manuel (No. 16, Buffalo), Geno Smith (No. 39, Jets) and Mike Glennon (No. 73, Tampa Bay). Nothing special there.
In 2008 (Jake Long), the top three quarterbacks picked were Matt Ryan (No. 3, Atlanta), Joe Flacco (No. 18, Baltimore) and Brian Brohm (No. 56, Packers). Ryan and Flacco have gone to Super Bowls. Both are franchise-type quarterbacks.
In 2006 (Mario Williams), the top three quarterbacks picked were Vince Young (No. 3, Tennessee), Matt Leinart (No. 10, Arizona) and Jay Cutler (No. 11, Denver). Cutler has been a long-term starter, but generally very average.
In 2000 (Courtney Brown), the top three quarterbacks picked were Chad Pennington (No. 18, Jets), Giovanni Carmazzi (No. 65, San Francisco) and Chris Redman (No. 75, Baltimore). Pennington was a decent starter. The others are very forgettable.
In 1997 (Orlando Pace), the top three quarterbacks picked were Jim Druckenmiller (No. 26, San Francisco) Jake Plummer (No. 42, Arizona) and Danny Wuerffel (No, 99, Saints). That was a quarterback disaster.
In 1996 (Keyshawn Johnson), the top three quarterbacks picked were Tony Banks (No. 42, Rams), Bobby Hoying (No. 85, Philadelphia) and Jeff Lewis (No. 100, Denver). No starters there.
Bottom line: The big miss was in 2008 where Ryan and Flacco would probably now be considered the top players in that draft because of the importance of the position. In 2014, Derek Carr (No. 36, Oakland) has emerged as the best quarterback in that draft. You can find some other quarterbacks deep in various drafts. But in general, skipping the quarterback at No. 1 has worked out for most teams who did so in the last 20 years.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/04/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_111.html
There's more at the bottom of the linked article. Mostly it's Terry's takes on each of the top, QB prospects in this draft. He starts with...
1. It's taken me a while to decide, but I'm joining the pack of those who think Mitch Trubisky is the best quarterback in this draft. That said, it would be a massive mistake for the Browns to make him the No. 1 pick. I'm in the "Don't think about it, draft Myles Garrett" camp.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The following reddit post struck as a really good, well expressed take on all the media swirling about Berea dissension over our choice at #1... anyway... it gave me some peace.
I think its painfully obvious that this front office is locked down. Very rarely are any rumours actually leaked from our building.
As others have stated, and we've witnessed, nobody heard about the blockbuster Osweiler trade until it actually went down.
We also werent connected to any particular free agents. JC Tretter, Britt, and Zeitler were all "surprises". There may have been speculation about Zeitler due to the Hue Jackson connection, but nothing was leaked about our potential targets.
Take the '16 NFL draft, the browns were not attached to any particular player. Only players that were believed to be "needs" for our roster. Nobody predicted us trading back twice and nabbing a WR with so many other holes on the roster. (Not saying the pick was bad, just that it was unusual given our team-needs at the time)
What im trying to say is, the media knows NOTHING about the Browns situation at #1, and everything thats being reported is total speculation.
The #1 pick will almost positively be Myles Garrett. The #12 pick is the more interesting one for all of us, and we could very easily trade back into the top 10 (Which I think is more realistic than trading the #1 rights to Myles Garrett)
What we have here for this draft is a clear cut #1 player that could easily find himself in the hall of fame, and then #2-#32 is wildly varying and totally non-uniform in that nobody knows who will be available or who is a "lock" for any team or player. As in, teams picking 2-10, this year more than others, have more than one need that could be filled w/ the BPA.
You have to take the clear cut #1 before anything else.
My reply....
My reaction... two words... "spot on".
And you did not even mention drafting Kess and three more WRs in 2016... four more, if you count Devalve. Who in the press was talking about any of those?
The ability of our FO to be so tight-lipped pretty well fits with my organizational take... management by consensus.
While there may be dozens of individuals participating in departmental evaluations, the consensus decision process only involves the top one or two from each department. So while staff, scouts, whomever may "talk" to reporters, they at best only know their Department's final "board".
Different boards in different departments are more likely than not to emerge... even with a slam-dunk #1 prospect. Thus the reports of FO disagreement, which is easily pumped up to "conflict" for more clicks, can be true at one level, but completely false in the final result.
The smaller group that does the consensing, and generate our final board and draft strategy, fully understand the importance of secrecy to their livelihood.
Works for me...
... as does taking Garrett.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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There's that HoF tag again...... Frickin' Gladiator.
Interestingly Garrett has been an introspective, somewhat shy person even in H.S., rarely known to speak about his own abilities. So when he makes a statement that he wants to be the best that ever played the game, I pay very close attention. Inwardly he has known his own goals for some time, but now he wants to go #1 and prove it was legit. I think he will give everything he's got for the Browns. He said he wanted to kill the combine and he did it. He was obviously not happy with his combine 40 time, so he ran it much better on pro day. He is competitive with his own inner standards and now he has let us know what that standard is, the best that ever played the game that wants to help deserving fans have a great team again.
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The following reddit post struck as a really good, well expressed take on all the media swirling about Berea dissension over our choice at #1... anyway... it gave me some peace.
I think its painfully obvious that this front office is locked down. Very rarely are any rumours actually leaked from our building.
As others have stated, and we've witnessed, nobody heard about the blockbuster Osweiler trade until it actually went down.
We also werent connected to any particular free agents. JC Tretter, Britt, and Zeitler were all "surprises". There may have been speculation about Zeitler due to the Hue Jackson connection, but nothing was leaked about our potential targets.
Take the '16 NFL draft, the browns were not attached to any particular player. Only players that were believed to be "needs" for our roster. Nobody predicted us trading back twice and nabbing a WR with so many other holes on the roster. (Not saying the pick was bad, just that it was unusual given our team-needs at the time)
What im trying to say is, the media knows NOTHING about the Browns situation at #1, and everything thats being reported is total speculation.
The #1 pick will almost positively be Myles Garrett. The #12 pick is the more interesting one for all of us, and we could very easily trade back into the top 10 (Which I think is more realistic than trading the #1 rights to Myles Garrett)
What we have here for this draft is a clear cut #1 player that could easily find himself in the hall of fame, and then #2-#32 is wildly varying and totally non-uniform in that nobody knows who will be available or who is a "lock" for any team or player. As in, teams picking 2-10, this year more than others, have more than one need that could be filled w/ the BPA.
You have to take the clear cut #1 before anything else.
My reply....
My reaction... two words... "spot on".
And you did not even mention drafting Kess and three more WRs in 2016... four more, if you count Devalve. Who in the press was talking about any of those?
The ability of our FO to be so tight-lipped pretty well fits with my organizational take... management by consensus.
While there may be dozens of individuals participating in departmental evaluations, the consensus decision process only involves the top one or two from each department. So while staff, scouts, whomever may "talk" to reporters, they at best only know their Department's final "board".
Different boards in different departments are more likely than not to emerge... even with a slam-dunk #1 prospect. Thus the reports of FO disagreement, which is easily pumped up to "conflict" for more clicks, can be true at one level, but completely false in the final result.
The smaller group that does the consensing, and generate our final board and draft strategy, fully understand the importance of secrecy to their livelihood.
Works for me...
... as does taking Garrett.
The following reddit post struck as a really good, well expressed take on all the media swirling about Berea dissension over our choice at #1... anyway... it gave me some peace.
I think its painfully obvious that this front office is locked down. Very rarely are any rumours actually leaked from our building.
As others have stated, and we've witnessed, nobody heard about the blockbuster Osweiler trade until it actually went down.
We also werent connected to any particular free agents. JC Tretter, Britt, and Zeitler were all "surprises". There may have been speculation about Zeitler due to the Hue Jackson connection, but nothing was leaked about our potential targets.
Take the '16 NFL draft, the browns were not attached to any particular player. Only players that were believed to be "needs" for our roster. Nobody predicted us trading back twice and nabbing a WR with so many other holes on the roster. (Not saying the pick was bad, just that it was unusual given our team-needs at the time)
What im trying to say is, the media knows NOTHING about the Browns situation at #1, and everything thats being reported is total speculation.
The #1 pick will almost positively be Myles Garrett. The #12 pick is the more interesting one for all of us, and we could very easily trade back into the top 10 (Which I think is more realistic than trading the #1 rights to Myles Garrett)
What we have here for this draft is a clear cut #1 player that could easily find himself in the hall of fame, and then #2-#32 is wildly varying and totally non-uniform in that nobody knows who will be available or who is a "lock" for any team or player. As in, teams picking 2-10, this year more than others, have more than one need that could be filled w/ the BPA.
You have to take the clear cut #1 before anything else.
My reply....
My reaction... two words... "spot on".
And you did not even mention drafting Kess and three more WRs in 2016... four more, if you count Devalve. Who in the press was talking about any of those?
The ability of our FO to be so tight-lipped pretty well fits with my organizational take... management by consensus.
While there may be dozens of individuals participating in departmental evaluations, the consensus decision process only involves the top one or two from each department. So while staff, scouts, whomever may "talk" to reporters, they at best only know their Department's final "board".
Different boards in different departments are more likely than not to emerge... even with a slam-dunk #1 prospect. Thus the reports of FO disagreement, which is easily pumped up to "conflict" for more clicks, can be true at one level, but completely false in the final result.
The smaller group that does the consensing, and generate our final board and draft strategy, fully understand the importance of secrecy to their livelihood.
Works for me...
... as does taking Garrett.
Great post & I have been stating the same...that this FO leaks NOTHING! In less than 2 weeks, the truth will surface. Then we will know.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Back on point take Garrett #1
-
The following reddit post struck as a really good, well expressed take on all the media swirling about Berea dissension over our choice at #1... anyway... it gave me some peace.
I think its painfully obvious that this front office is locked down. Very rarely are any rumours actually leaked from our building.
As others have stated, and we've witnessed, nobody heard about the blockbuster Osweiler trade until it actually went down.
We also werent connected to any particular free agents. JC Tretter, Britt, and Zeitler were all "surprises". There may have been speculation about Zeitler due to the Hue Jackson connection, but nothing was leaked about our potential targets.
Take the '16 NFL draft, the browns were not attached to any particular player. Only players that were believed to be "needs" for our roster. Nobody predicted us trading back twice and nabbing a WR with so many other holes on the roster. (Not saying the pick was bad, just that it was unusual given our team-needs at the time)
What im trying to say is, the media knows NOTHING about the Browns situation at #1, and everything thats being reported is total speculation.
The #1 pick will almost positively be Myles Garrett. The #12 pick is the more interesting one for all of us, and we could very easily trade back into the top 10 (Which I think is more realistic than trading the #1 rights to Myles Garrett)
What we have here for this draft is a clear cut #1 player that could easily find himself in the hall of fame, and then #2-#32 is wildly varying and totally non-uniform in that nobody knows who will be available or who is a "lock" for any team or player. As in, teams picking 2-10, this year more than others, have more than one need that could be filled w/ the BPA.
You have to take the clear cut #1 before anything else.
My reply....
My reaction... two words... "spot on".
And you did not even mention drafting Kess and three more WRs in 2016... four more, if you count Devalve. Who in the press was talking about any of those?
The ability of our FO to be so tight-lipped pretty well fits with my organizational take... management by consensus.
While there may be dozens of individuals participating in departmental evaluations, the consensus decision process only involves the top one or two from each department. So while staff, scouts, whomever may "talk" to reporters, they at best only know their Department's final "board".
Different boards in different departments are more likely than not to emerge... even with a slam-dunk #1 prospect. Thus the reports of FO disagreement, which is easily pumped up to "conflict" for more clicks, can be true at one level, but completely false in the final result.
The smaller group that does the consensing, and generate our final board and draft strategy, fully understand the importance of secrecy to their livelihood.
Works for me...
... as does taking Garrett.
Great post & I have been stating the same...that this FO leaks NOTHING! In less than 2 weeks, the truth will surface. Then we will know.
Mike
Great post & I have been stating the same...that this FO leaks NOTHING! In less than 2 weeks, the truth will surface. Then we will know.
Yup... just wish it had been my post. It's not that it was revelatory, it's not. You and others, including me, have posted the sentiment. But for whatever reason my grip on the sentiment as a reality was slipping. That post brought me back...
I just hope I can hold on for another 11.43 (estimated) days...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@ghoolie said:
The Browns moved. The team AND the Franchise moved. Art Modell was welcomed as the owner of The Baltimore Browns.
The Browns had no football for 5 years. Why was that? Because the fucking team was still in Cleveland but didn't want to play? ell me who was on the 1996 Cleveland Browns Team, IF the team didn't move?
Idiotic discussion.
You stayed up until 3:00 am just to type the same trash you've already typed a couple thousand times? You might want to find another hobby to go along with the crack pipe because this ain't working.
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Great post & I have been stating the same...that this FO leaks NOTHING! In less than 2 weeks, the truth will surface. Then we will know.
Yup... just wish it had been my post. It's not that it was revelatory, it's not. You and others, including me, have posted the sentiment. But for whatever reason my grip on the sentiment as a reality was slipping. That post brought me back...
I just hope I can hold on for another 11.43 (estimated) days...
Yup... just wish it had been my post. It's not that it was revelatory, it's not. You and others, including me, have posted the sentiment. But for whatever reason my grip on the sentiment as a reality was slipping. That post brought me back...
I just hope I can hold on for another 11.43 (estimated) days...
AMEN! I feel like I did as a kid waiting for Christmas.....WHEN will it ever get here???
Mike
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More words of wisdom from Terrry Pluto...
Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' quarterbacks and more quarterbacks
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 15, 2017 at 7:10 AM, updated April 15, 2017 at 7:13 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is it safer to pick someone other than a quarterback at No. 1 in the NFL Draft?
The obvious answer is, "It depends what quarterbacks are available."
I checked the last 20 years of drafts, and here is what happened to non-quarterbacks who were the top picks:
1996: Keyshawn Johnson picked by the New York Jets. He made three Pro Bowls, caught 814 passes. He was an excellent receiver for years.
1997: Orlando Pace picked by the Rams. The Ohio State product was selected to the Hall of Fame in 2016 because of his great play as a left tackle.
2000: Courtney Brown picked by the Browns. Browns fans know the story of the defensive end from Penn State. He had decent rookie year. Major injuries followed, including microfracture knee surgery. He had 4.5 sacks in his first five games of 2001 before suffering his first big knee injury. He played 60 games in six years, never was the same after that initial knee problem.
2006: Mario Williams picked by Houston. He has made four Pro Bowls. He was a very good pass rusher from 2006-14.
2008: Jake Long picked by Miami. The left tackle made four Pro Bowls in his first four seasons. But major injuries began in 2012. His career hit a wall after that.
2013: Eric Fisher picked by Kansas City. The left tackle has not made a Pro Bowl. He had a slow start to his career but has developed into a good starter. The Chiefs re-signed him to a four-year, $48 million extension in 2016. At that point, he was the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL.
2014: Jadeveon Clowney picked by Houston. He made the 2016 Pro Bowl. He had knee problems as a rookie, starting only two games. It wasn't until 2016 that he began to show why the Texans made him the top pick. He made second-team All-NFL by Associated Press. He's only 24, so more good stuff should be coming if he stays healthy.
What's the point?
1. Five of the seven non-quarterbacks picked at top of the draft have made Pro Bowls.
2. Fisher was the top pick in the awful 2013 draft. At least he is a viable starter and has been rewarded with a contract extension. Six of the top 10 picks in 2013 are with different teams, including Browns selection of Barkevious Mingo. No. 2 pick Luke Joeckel has had major knee problems. No. 3 pick Dion Jordan has been a nightmare with suspensions, etc.
3. Besides Fisher, the other top pick not to make a Pro Bowl was Courtney Brown.
4. This data makes a strong case for Myles Garrett being the safest move at the top of the draft. That's especially true because the defensive end from Texas A&M is viewed as the consensus best player in the draft by the majority of draft experts. This is not like 2013, when no one was especially sure who to take at No. 1.
SKIPPING A QUARTERBACK AT NO. 1
In 2014 (Clowney), the top three quarterbacks picked were Blake Bortles (No. 3, Jacksonville), Johnny Manziel (No. 22, Browns) and Teddy Twatwater (No. 32, Minnesota). Browns fans know the Manziel story. Bortles is struggling as a starter with Jacksonville. Bridgewater showed promise as a starter until suffering a major knee injury last season.
In 2013 (Eric Fisher), the top three quarterbacks picked were E.J. Manuel (No. 16, Buffalo), Geno Smith (No. 39, Jets) and Mike Glennon (No. 73, Tampa Bay). Nothing special there.
In 2008 (Jake Long), the top three quarterbacks picked were Matt Ryan (No. 3, Atlanta), Joe Flacco (No. 18, Baltimore) and Brian Brohm (No. 56, Packers). Ryan and Flacco have gone to Super Bowls. Both are franchise-type quarterbacks.
In 2006 (Mario Williams), the top three quarterbacks picked were Vince Young (No. 3, Tennessee), Matt Leinart (No. 10, Arizona) and Jay Cutler (No. 11, Denver). Cutler has been a long-term starter, but generally very average.
In 2000 (Courtney Brown), the top three quarterbacks picked were Chad Pennington (No. 18, Jets), Giovanni Carmazzi (No. 65, San Francisco) and Chris Redman (No. 75, Baltimore). Pennington was a decent starter. The others are very forgettable.
In 1997 (Orlando Pace), the top three quarterbacks picked were Jim Druckenmiller (No. 26, San Francisco) Jake Plummer (No. 42, Arizona) and Danny Wuerffel (No, 99, Saints). That was a quarterback disaster.
In 1996 (Keyshawn Johnson), the top three quarterbacks picked were Tony Banks (No. 42, Rams), Bobby Hoying (No. 85, Philadelphia) and Jeff Lewis (No. 100, Denver). No starters there.
Bottom line: The big miss was in 2008 where Ryan and Flacco would probably now be considered the top players in that draft because of the importance of the position. In 2014, Derek Carr (No. 36, Oakland) has emerged as the best quarterback in that draft. You can find some other quarterbacks deep in various drafts. But in general, skipping the quarterback at No. 1 has worked out for most teams who did so in the last 20 years.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/04/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_111.html
There's more at the bottom of the linked article. Mostly it's Terry's takes on each of the top, QB prospects in this draft. He starts with...
1. It's taken me a while to decide, but I'm joining the pack of those who think Mitch Trubisky is the best quarterback in this draft. That said, it would be a massive mistake for the Browns to make him the No. 1 pick. I'm in the "Don't think about it, draft Myles Garrett" camp.
More words of wisdom from Terrry Pluto...
Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' quarterbacks and more quarterbacks
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 15, 2017 at 7:10 AM, updated April 15, 2017 at 7:13 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is it safer to pick someone other than a quarterback at No. 1 in the NFL Draft?
The obvious answer is, "It depends what quarterbacks are available."
I checked the last 20 years of drafts, and here is what happened to non-quarterbacks who were the top picks:
Really interesting that you posted this(and that Terry wrote it)......I actually did this exercise just yesterday to see for myself who the top "non - qb" picked was.....the main difference is that I did not focus on the #1 overall specifically.....but on the highest non qb picked for every year.....why?.....because we all know QB's go #1, when they aren;t the top guy.....so I included those guys who were passed over and would have been considered #1
And the results were stunning.....the hit percentage was extremely high, compared to the balance of the draft....
I did this because Dbone and myself were debating trading back and I was trying to show that the top pick has a much higher percentage of scoring quality,. than trading back would have.....and it's not even debatable......taking the top player is a slam dunk compared to taking the 5th....10th....20th....etc.....
How many players end up being pro bowlers in their careers?....about 7%.....how many end up being HOF?....about 1%....
Now....how many(non QB)top picks end up being pro-bowlers?.....HOW ABOUT 50%?!!!?.....HOF?......ALMOST 20%
If you include players taken in the top 5.....the numbers are even higher.....
And if you trade back.....say to #15?......the percentages drop drastically......
Here are interesting and extremely telling HOF stats.....
There are exactly 98 players in the HOF that were selected in the first round....98 all time....
78 of them were taken inside the top 10 picks.....freaking 78.....
That says it all.....
And if we trade back?.....how many were taken saaaaay at #15?(or later?).....14.....
so.....14 great ones VS 78 great ones......
Yeah....lets trade back......
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More words of wisdom from Terrry Pluto...
Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' quarterbacks and more quarterbacks
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer on April 15, 2017 at 7:10 AM, updated April 15, 2017 at 7:13 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is it safer to pick someone other than a quarterback at No. 1 in the NFL Draft?
The obvious answer is, "It depends what quarterbacks are available."
I checked the last 20 years of drafts, and here is what happened to non-quarterbacks who were the top picks:
Really interesting that you posted this(and that Terry wrote it)......I actually did this exercise just yesterday to see for myself who the top "non - qb" picked was.....the main difference is that I did not focus on the #1 overall specifically.....but on the highest non qb picked for every year.....why?.....because we all know QB's go #1, when they aren;t the top guy.....so I included those guys who were passed over and would have been considered #1
And the results were stunning.....the hit percentage was extremely high, compared to the balance of the draft....
I did this because Dbone and myself were debating trading back and I was trying to show that the top pick has a much higher percentage of scoring quality,. than trading back would have.....and it's not even debatable......taking the top player is a slam dunk compared to taking the 5th....10th....20th....etc.....
How many players end up being pro bowlers in their careers?....about 7%.....how many end up being HOF?....about 1%....
Now....how many(non QB)top picks end up being pro-bowlers?.....HOW ABOUT 50%?!!!?.....HOF?......ALMOST 20%
If you include players taken in the top 5.....the numbers are even higher.....
And if you trade back.....say to #15?......the percentages drop drastically......
Here are interesting and extremely telling HOF stats.....
There are exactly 98 players in the HOF that were selected in the first round....98 all time....
78 of them were taken inside the top 10 picks.....freaking 78.....
That says it all.....
And if we trade back?.....how many were taken saaaaay at #15?(or later?).....14.....
so.....14 great ones VS 78 great ones......
Yeah....lets trade back......
Really interesting that you posted this(and that Terry wrote it)......I actually did this exercise just yesterday to see for myself who the top "non - qb" picked was.....the main difference is that I did not focus on the #1 overall specifically.....but on the highest non qb picked for every year.....why?.....because we all know QB's go #1, when they aren;t the top guy.....so I included those guys who were passed over and would have been considered #1
And the results were stunning.....the hit percentage was extremely high, compared to the balance of the draft....
I did this because Dbone and myself were debating trading back and I was trying to show that the top pick has a much higher percentage of scoring quality,. than trading back would have.....and it's not even debatable......taking the top player is a slam dunk compared to taking the 5th....10th....20th....etc.....
How many players end up being pro bowlers in their careers?....about 7%.....how many end up being HOF?....about 1%....
Now....how many(non QB)top picks end up being pro-bowlers?.....HOW ABOUT 50%?!!!?.....HOF?......ALMOST 20%
If you include players taken in the top 5.....the numbers are even higher.....
And if you trade back.....say to #15?......the percentages drop drastically......
Here are interesting and extremely telling HOF stats.....
There are exactly 98 players in the HOF that were selected in the first round....98 all time....
78 of them were taken inside the top 10 picks.....freaking 78.....
That says it all.....
And if we trade back?.....how many were taken saaaaay at #15?(or later?).....14.....
so.....14 great ones VS 78 great ones......
Yeah....lets trade back......
Good stuff... So did you tweet a link to Terry?
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@ghoolie said:
The Browns moved. The team AND the Franchise moved. Art Modell was welcomed as the owner of The Baltimore Browns.
The Browns had no football for 5 years. Why was that? Because the fucking team was still in Cleveland but didn't want to play? ell me who was on the 1996 Cleveland Browns Team, IF the team didn't move?
Idiotic discussion.
See what I mean about facts and accuracy?
Any bunch of guys that get together to play on a pickup sandlot game can constitute a "team". When we played playground basketball we would have 5 players play together and play til like 21. Then we would choose up new sides and have a completely different group playing with me...and that was a team. A Team is simply a conglomeration of players at a particular moment in time.
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Here's what I think is happening right now...
I really don't think we would draft a QB first overall this year. Everyone in our staff knows full well the statistics involving "overdrafting" a QB, and since we have another pick coming at #12, I don't see that being a viable option. The only reason we'd let anything like this latest rumor "slip" is to drum up SOME kind of trade interest. THAT'S what I think is going on here. We probably have about 6 players or so that we'd want with our first pick, so if we can trade down a LITTLE BIT and pick up another heavy asset, that's what we would like to do. If we can get teams drafting 2-6 to strike a deal with us, I really believe we'd do it. It might cost them a 2017 2nd rounder, or possibly a 2018 1st rounder. We want as many assets as possible in the 2018 draft because we know the QB class is likely to be stronger, perhaps MUCH stronger, than this year's.
Do I have any proof? Nope. All I have is the previous history of our front office and coaches, and we almost ALWAYS trade back in the first round. What's different this year? Is Myles Garrett THAT much better than say...Solomon Thomas? Jamal Adams? Malik Hooker? What would you say if we could get Solomon Thomas AND the Bears 2018 1st rounder? Isn't that a deal you'd have to do? Or what if the Titans were absolutely in love with Myles Garrett, and they offered their #5 and $18 for the #1 overall? That would effectively give us numbers 5, 12, and 18 of the first round. THREE potential starters and impact players on ONE day. Downside? We don't get Myles Garrett, who could be the bee's knees. If the Titans deal went through, we'd get something like Malik Hooker, Derek Barnett, and Corey Davis (or possible QB).
I honestly believe those of us who desperately want Myles Garrett can take a deep sigh of relief. The crazy trades I talked about have almost zero chance of happening. The Titans are a playoff team that got their hopes crushed by a terrible injury, and they get TWO first rounders. Can you imagine making the damn playoffs AND having two early picks in the first round? Jesus. They'd be FOOLS to trade up, and I don't see it happening. Only way it does is if the team somehow feels like they are "one special player away", and they absolutely MUST have Myles Garrett. Chances? About 3%. The Bears or 49's are probably both looking to trade DOWN to acquire more picks, so I don't see them listening to anything at all. If I had to guess, the Browns have been making phone calls about trading the #1 pick and were met with cold reception. We probably leaked the information that we're split on who to take at #1 to stimulate some trade talks, but it's doubtful it'll help. Our team covets draft picks like no other, so it's only normal that we're taking as much time as possible on the oft chance another team makes us an offer that we can't turn down.
Additionally, I can't think of the last time where a defensive player was the consensus #1 prospect, and the team drafting first traded the pick. If there's a talented QB coming out, then sure, trades happen all of the time, but when was the last time the first pick was traded and a defender was taken #1? I can't remember a time, but I'm sure it's happened...right? My point is, our team probably WANTS to trade, but I don't think we'll be able to. I'm hoping Myles Garrett will be a Brown, and I'm hoping he's every bit as good on the field as he is in my dreams.
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Quarterback at number 1? Hey look if the coaching staff and or the front office are convinced that Mitch trubisky will be coach Jackson's even Andy Dalton then you take him at number 1. If he doesn't think he's a franchise quarterback and they'd be happy to have any of the top three then that would suggest you just wait until the 3rd or the 4th and take Davis Webb or Chad Kelly. Or none.
WSS
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