Actual Browns Thread
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All this conjecture about players the Browns don't even have yet.....and will not have at all except for a select few. Why don't we talk about ACTUAL Cleveland Browns players...and what these guys may do to contribute to the Browns actually winning some games. Let's make an assumption that the Browns are NOT going to start 22 rookies on this team. Further, lets make an assumption that the Browns will actually not have any rookies on the roster...or that rookies will make much of a contribution to winning (they really didn't last year) Lets look at the roster as is.
Start with the offense:
A. Quarterbacks. We have Brock Osweiler, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan
First question: who starts.....and what does each bring to help winning games?
2d question: do we need to replace/enhance this position?
B. Runninig Backs: Crowell, Duke, George Atkinson
A "winning" combination or do we need to enhance this position?
C. TEs Barnidge, DeValve, Telfer
A winning combination or is help needed?
D. Coleman, Britt, Higgins, Louis et al.
Winning combination? More help needed? (Gordon?)
E. OC: Tretter, Marcus Martin, Reiter
Two FA pickups here.
Winning combination?
F. Zeitler, Bitonio, Drango, Greco
Winning combination?
G. Thomas, Erving, Shon Coleman
JT secure....what about duel between Erving/Coleman...or do we need another?
All this conjecture about players the Browns don't even have yet.....and will not have at all except for a select few. Why don't we talk about ACTUAL Cleveland Browns players...and what these guys may do to contribute to the Browns actually winning some games. Let's make an assumption that the Browns are NOT going to start 22 rookies on this team. Further, lets make an assumption that the Browns will actually not have any rookies on the roster...or that rookies will make much of a contribution to winning (they really didn't last year) Lets look at the roster as is.
Start with the offense:
A. Quarterbacks. We have Brock Osweiler, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan
First question: who starts.....and what does each bring to help winning games?
2d question: do we need to replace/enhance this position?
B. Runninig Backs: Crowell, Duke, George Atkinson
A "winning" combination or do we need to enhance this position?
C. TEs Barnidge, DeValve, Telfer
A winning combination or is help needed?
D. Coleman, Britt, Higgins, Louis et al.
Winning combination? More help needed? (Gordon?)
E. OC: Tretter, Marcus Martin, Reiter
Two FA pickups here.
Winning combination?
F. Zeitler, Bitonio, Drango, Greco
Winning combination?
G. Thomas, Erving, Shon Coleman
JT secure....what about duel between Erving/Coleman...or do we need another?
I've been working in Columbus during the week and coming home on the weekends... and while I've been home I've been neck deep in a bathroom remodel of a 100 year old house... so I haven't had much time to be on here. I miss you guys.
A) To be honest our QB situation is really exciting.
1- BO was a QB that I really liked and wanted coming out of college. I don't know much about his time so far in the NFL- I hear it wasn't good but hey, sometimes those things can happen and it just takes being in the right situation to make things better. The dude is mobile and has a pretty good arm- plus I think he's like 7 foot tall! lol
2- Hogan was my favorite QB coming out from last year. Of course he's developing and getting better but he still has a chance to become a very good player.
3- Kessler is a good kid and tough SOB, took some shots last season and didn't back down so I think he's still got a lot left in the tank and I don't think we've seen his best yet.
I really like all these Quarterbacks right now. I really like Trubisky- I think he has everything that you want in a franchise QB. I mean, he's not the tallest guy and he doesn't have the college starts that you're looking for but I think that he has the arm strength, the accuracy and wheels to get whatever you need done out there.
I would say that if we do end up getting him that we keep all the QBs and run them in a straight up competition to see who gets the starts. You got Oz, Hogan, Kessler, Trubisky... that is a hell of a Quarterback room if you ask me.
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Who benefits the most from a Garrett selection @ #1?? A great argument can be made for the secondary as a whole because play in and play out there will be a shortened length of time to have to cover receivers all across the field. However there is one specific player who benefits in possibly becoming better than he already is at this point primarily because he gets to practice against a guy like Garrett day in and day out. Meet Joe Thomas. Man is he going to become even more difficult for the average pass rusher to get around. And Garrett will get better from day one having to go against him in return. Win-win for the Browns. This is gonna be fun to see how that relationship develops between the young gun and the old pro.
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Who benefits the most from a Garrett selection @ #1?? A great argument can be made for the secondary as a whole because play in and play out there will be a shortened length of time to have to cover receivers all across the field. However there is one specific player who benefits in possibly becoming better than he already is at this point primarily because he gets to practice against a guy like Garrett day in and day out. Meet Joe Thomas. Man is he going to become even more difficult for the average pass rusher to get around. And Garrett will get better from day one having to go against him in return. Win-win for the Browns. This is gonna be fun to see how that relationship develops between the young gun and the old pro.
Who benefits the most from a Garrett selection @ #1??
Possibly Joe H. due to less time for double moves which have given him issues.
But strong argument could also be made for Ogbah with the flushing of the QB his way... or Bryant due to QB being forced to step up.
That's three done and seven to go... on defense...
... then there are the OTs that will have to practice against him...
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I hope he starts all 16 - Yea, I said it.
It's funny, I kind of came around to this idea as well. It's safe to say that Kessler played much better than most of us THOUGHT he would, and he probably should've had two wins to show for his effort. Hue Jackson and our FB cost us in that Washington game, when the FB took his first carry and promptly fumbled the damn thing inside the red zone when were had a decent lead. I'm not saying a touchdown there seals the game, but it was possible. Not getting points cost us there, but it was really the momentum swing that we couldn't recover from, ya know? We really should've won that Miami game, and it's just bad luck.
The main thing that we won't know until the season starts is whether or not Cody can make "the leap". Losing Pryor certainly didn't help, and it's all but a sure thing that Gordon won't be with us (in my eyes). We need weapons, and even if we draft a couple high in the draft, expectations must be tempered when it comes to rookies. My hope is that the defense is MUCH better, and our improved OL will help us in keeping our QB upright and also running the ball much more efficiently. We can't keep getting down double figures in the first half of games, and then expect to be able to run the ball like we want to. We also need our defense to probably double the amount of turnovers. I wouldn't mind being a team like the Houston Texans that wins ugly games with defense. For that to happen, and bunch of things need to go our way, but this draft could be a start. It also goes without saying that Corey Coleman needs to be "the guy", and one of our other 2nd year WR needs to actually show like they belong in the damn league.
Like I said last year, my biggest issue with Kessler was how flimsy he looked in the pocket. Yeah he may have held the ball too long, but the guy had next to NO escapability, and if a defender simply touched a shoelace, Cody went down. There's aren't many guys in the NFL that went down as easily as Cody, and he certainly didn't look very athletic. I know he wasn't supposed to be Michael damn Vick, but he appeared terribly slow to me. Am I way off here? The other glaring issue was of course the concussions, and that really scares me both from a fan standpoint, and also from a medical standpoint for his future. Again, Cody isn't supposed to be a runner, but if you go back and watch some of his games, you'll see so many opportunities where he could've MOONWALKED for 20 yards. I don't want my QB running all of the time, but the occasional jaunt ending with a well-timed slide decimates a defense. Often times you can pick up a first down, and they don't even get to hit you. It's very frustrating to cover so well, but then get gashed. Heck, even a 5-6 yard QB run opens things up. The lack of mobility, or outright inability to run, hurts Cody especially in Hue's offense. Hue LOVES the occasional read-option and other mobility focused plays, and those won't be possibilities when Cody is at the helm.
We've all heard the whole "Cody doesn't get the ball deep" headline, but I'm not as worried about that as I am about the aforementioned other issues. I think that will come, and his arm is plenty strong to push the ball down the field. It might not be Matthew Stafford, but it also doesn't have to be. It just has to be accurate and thrown when the play presents itself.
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I hope he starts all 16 - Yea, I said it.
It's funny, I kind of came around to this idea as well. It's safe to say that Kessler played much better than most of us THOUGHT he would, and he probably should've had two wins to show for his effort. Hue Jackson and our FB cost us in that Washington game, when the FB took his first carry and promptly fumbled the damn thing inside the red zone when were had a decent lead. I'm not saying a touchdown there seals the game, but it was possible. Not getting points cost us there, but it was really the momentum swing that we couldn't recover from, ya know? We really should've won that Miami game, and it's just bad luck.
The main thing that we won't know until the season starts is whether or not Cody can make "the leap". Losing Pryor certainly didn't help, and it's all but a sure thing that Gordon won't be with us (in my eyes). We need weapons, and even if we draft a couple high in the draft, expectations must be tempered when it comes to rookies. My hope is that the defense is MUCH better, and our improved OL will help us in keeping our QB upright and also running the ball much more efficiently. We can't keep getting down double figures in the first half of games, and then expect to be able to run the ball like we want to. We also need our defense to probably double the amount of turnovers. I wouldn't mind being a team like the Houston Texans that wins ugly games with defense. For that to happen, and bunch of things need to go our way, but this draft could be a start. It also goes without saying that Corey Coleman needs to be "the guy", and one of our other 2nd year WR needs to actually show like they belong in the damn league.
Like I said last year, my biggest issue with Kessler was how flimsy he looked in the pocket. Yeah he may have held the ball too long, but the guy had next to NO escapability, and if a defender simply touched a shoelace, Cody went down. There's aren't many guys in the NFL that went down as easily as Cody, and he certainly didn't look very athletic. I know he wasn't supposed to be Michael damn Vick, but he appeared terribly slow to me. Am I way off here? The other glaring issue was of course the concussions, and that really scares me both from a fan standpoint, and also from a medical standpoint for his future. Again, Cody isn't supposed to be a runner, but if you go back and watch some of his games, you'll see so many opportunities where he could've MOONWALKED for 20 yards. I don't want my QB running all of the time, but the occasional jaunt ending with a well-timed slide decimates a defense. Often times you can pick up a first down, and they don't even get to hit you. It's very frustrating to cover so well, but then get gashed. Heck, even a 5-6 yard QB run opens things up. The lack of mobility, or outright inability to run, hurts Cody especially in Hue's offense. Hue LOVES the occasional read-option and other mobility focused plays, and those won't be possibilities when Cody is at the helm.
We've all heard the whole "Cody doesn't get the ball deep" headline, but I'm not as worried about that as I am about the aforementioned other issues. I think that will come, and his arm is plenty strong to push the ball down the field. It might not be Matthew Stafford, but it also doesn't have to be. It just has to be accurate and thrown when the play presents itself.
It's funny, I kind of came around to this idea as well. It's safe to say that Kessler played much better than most of us THOUGHT he would, and he probably should've had two wins to show for his effort. Hue Jackson and our FB cost us in that Washington game, when the FB took his first carry and promptly fumbled the damn thing inside the red zone when were had a decent lead. I'm not saying a touchdown there seals the game, but it was possible. Not getting points cost us there, but it was really the momentum swing that we couldn't recover from, ya know? We really should've won that Miami game, and it's just bad luck.
A 2017 Kess V2.0 that has improved his deep decision making holds more promise for sure, but 2016's bottom line is that he did not put points on the board. Only six TDs in eight starts, 0.75 TD/gm, is simply not good enough, and a lack of aggressive play was a major factor. McC had as many TDs in his five starts.
Sure Kess limited his INTs (two vs. McC's six) and his 65.6% connect rate looks great, but that was a combination that DCs could wait out... wait for two misses in a row to kill our drives. It's just what happens when a D feels unthreatened by chunk passes.
But when Kess overcame the odds and managed to lead us to the redzone, he did cash us in. Five of his TDs came in (by my count) his 12 redzone appearances and he threw no redzone picks. His completion rate did fall to 52.9%, but increased throwaways likely account for some of the drop off.
There's no doubt that a better surrounding cast can only help, but better, faster decision making, including increasing the area of the field that has to be defended, has to accompany that cast... and that's on Kess. It is encouraging that he appears to have accepted the challenge.
Redzone playlog here: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KessCo00/red-zone-passing-plays/2016
League Redzone data here: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/redzone-passing.htm
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2699236-nfl1000-cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-draft-preview
Draft and current staff analysis ...
Seems made for this thread, so copied it over....
Some interesting, potentially disturbing grades and misc. stuff in article...
Offense first...
- "West Coast/Power"... a name for Hue's O... I guess it works.
- Britt's score of 67.8 made him the 40th ranked WR out of 155, but Coleman's "close" score of 65.6 only ranked him 67th? Says there is a very tight pack of WR in the 2nd quartile.
- Bito's 4/78 ranking surprises me a bit to the high side...
- ... but not as much as Zeitler's 21/78 did to the low side. Our prize FA is only 2nd quartile? Just ahead of Greco at 22nd?
- Zeitler's price does make Tretter, our 11/38 FA-Center, look like a bargain.
D-side...
- Ogbah ranked 6 of 53 DEs... I knew he came on late, but did not see him that high.
- Our big trade-acquisition/resign, Collins, is ranked at the bottom of the top third of OLBs.
- Kirsey's middle-of-the-pack ranking seems low... and their "will never be a top ten MLB" prognosis feels harsh, but a certain BAMA ILB pushing him to OLB would still not piss me off.
- Pretty well nailed our 2ndary...
And then there's their Cam comment:
First-round draft picks will get every chance possible to prove they can't play. Despite Erving's having major struggles at left tackle while at Florida State, which sparked the move to center, he will make the move to right tackle and compete with Coleman.
How he ranked 33rd out of 38 Centers is beyond me.... but then at FSU he was not the worst OT prospect I looked at that year. He was the 2nd worst ranking 9th out of the 10 OTs I reviewed.
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According to Emmett golden from espn 850, Kessler is the hardest worker on the team. At least there won't be any of the what-if/ if-only crap we had with Manziel. Cody is going to get everything he can out of his physical talents. Knowing that Cody is putting the work in and doing everything he can to be successful will make it easier to determine where he stands in comparison with whats needed from the QB position. I say let Cockwhistler back up Kess while Kizer/Dobbs holds the clipboard.
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According to Emmett golden from espn 850, Kessler is the hardest worker on the team. At least there won't be any of the what-if/ if-only crap we had with Manziel. Cody is going to get everything he can out of his physical talents. Knowing that Cody is putting the work in and doing everything he can to be successful will make it easier to determine where he stands in comparison with whats needed from the QB position. I say let Cockwhistler back up Kess while Kizer/Dobbs holds the clipboard.
According to Emmett golden from espn 850, Kessler is the hardest worker on the team. At least there won't be any of the what-if/ if-only crap we had with Manziel. Cody is going to get everything he can out of his physical talents. Knowing that Cody is putting the work in and doing everything he can to be successful will make it easier to determine where he stands in comparison with whats needed from the QB position. I say let Cockwhistler back up Kess while Kizer/Dobbs holds the clipboard.
I can live with that...
Who knows... we might even develop some QB capital in the process.
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