Forget the Mocks, Post Your Draft Board...
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Grouped by certainty of talent translating to NFL. Ordered within groups (clusters) by combination of need, positional impact and viable later options.
In rounds where we have multiple picks well spread across the round, two sub-groupings are created.
Cusps are inserted between each round for prospects that could rise:
- in the event of a run on a position in the higher of the two rounds, or
- if the lower cluster's prospects, in the higher round, are all off the board and no acceptable trade down offers are received.
My Board
1a: Myles Garrett (DE)
1b: J. Adams (SS), S. Thomas (DE), J. Allen (DT), R. Foster (ILB), M. Lattimore (CB), M. Hooker (FS), OJ Howard (TE), H. Reddick (OLB)
1/2 Cusp: D. Watson (QB), M. Trubisky (QB),
2a: M. Williams (FS), C. Gonley (CB), Z. Cunningham (OLB), C. Awuzie (CB), K. King (CB/FS) T. Watt (OLB), F. Lamp (OG/OT)
2b: J. Jones (SS), A. Jackson (CB), B. Baker (FS), T. Bowser (OLB), R. McMillan (ILB), D. Dawkins (OG/OT)
2/3: S. Jones (CB), C. Brantley (DT),L. Ogunjobi (DT), C. Godwin (WR), E. Jackson (SS)
3: J. Butt (TE), A. Shaheen (TE), M. Adams (DT), A. Anzalone (OLB), A. Garcia (OT), D. King (FS)
3/4: T. Taylor (WR), M. Maye (FS), J. Leggett (TE),
4. N. Peterman (QB), A Walker, Jr. (ILB), S. Griffin (CB), H. Wilson (CB), C. Watkins (DT), Ja. Williams (RB), G. Kittle (TE), M. Mack (RB)
4/5: S. Perrine (RB), R. Glasgow (DT), E. Vanderdoes (DT)
5a: C. Kelly (QB), R. Switzer (WR)
5b: J. Toth (C ), B. Langley (CB)
5/6: J. Dobbs (QB), D. Webb (QB), R. Davis (WR)
6. Z. Gonzales (K), T. Thompson (SS), J. Senior (OT), J. Chessan (WR), J. Malone (WR), TJ Logan (RB), CJ Bethard (QB)
- PLAYMAKERS-TAKE THEM EARLY & OFTEN Gumby73 Board
1a: Myles Garrett (DE)
1b:R.FOSTER------- J. Allen (DT), M. Lattimore (CB), OJ Howard (TE), H. Reddick (OLB)
2a: ADOREE JACKSON CB,-----ZAY JONES WR, B. BAKER FS, K. King (CB/FS)
2b: JOE MIXION RB,----- ZAY JONES WR, JAKE BUTT TE, S.Jones (SS), T. Bowser (OLB), A.ANZLONE OLB,D.KING FS/CB
3: JAKE BUTT (TE),---- M.MAYE FS,T.BOWSER OLB, A. Anzalone (OLB), D. King (FS)
4. M.MAYE SS,----S.PERRINE RB .D.TOMLINSON DT, C. Watkins (DT)
5a: ZANE GONZALEZ K,---- JUSTIN EVANS SS, D. FOREMAN RB, JOSH REYNOLDS (WR)
5b: JOSH REYNOLDS WR- OR USE IT & TRADED UP--ZANE GONZALEZ K, JAMES CONNOR RB, R.Switzer WR,
6.USE IT & TRADED UP--- IF NO TE--SAUBERT or M.ROBERTS IF NO SS--HARVEY-CLEMMONS or LORENZO JEROME, J Logan (RB), BUG HOWARD WR
^^^For the love of Cleveland pay the Crow & Zay may be there.
If not Crow takes a beating at 225lbs. the above all sit at 233lbs. A Defensive draft may also lead to us with still a lot'a Cap with Alot'a players told to walk.Our door is always open.. -
Tour, where are Tre'Davious White and Marlon Humphrey? Two first rounders I never seem to hear about on this board.
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Humphrey is a take if he is still there @33. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,
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I think Humphrey's the best CB in the draft, though admittedly DBs aren't my evaluation strong suit whatsoever.
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Thought this was interesting regards grading big boards years later
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/hasan-who-crafted-the-best-big-board-in-2014/
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Yep.....Humphrey is on my early in 2nd list.......would waffle between him and my boy Adore though......
Yep.....Humphrey is on my early in 2nd list.......would waffle between him and my boy Adore though......
Jackson is the better overall because of his ST value, but Humphrey is the better coverage CB IMO.
Edit: I think Humphrey gets drafted before Jackson
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Jackson is the better overall because of his ST value, but Humphrey is the better coverage CB IMO.
Id agree.....which is the conundrum(ie waffle time)....
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The thing I always find difficult about evaluating the Bama CBs is they often get spoiled by a great front 7 and pass rush that coincides well with their bump/physical press NFL teams aren't always offering. I think Saban also mixes in a nice blend of zone. Dee Milliner got the culture shock of a life time when the grabbing he always got a way with at Bama got flagged in games and noticed in practice when he was a NY Jet.
Speaking of which, wouldn't it be nice to finally see Joe Haden get the perk of a reasonable pass rush up front?
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Jackson is the better overall because of his ST value, but Humphrey is the better coverage CB IMO.
Edit: I think Humphrey gets drafted before Jackson
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Joe Haden is a really strong guy especially when he can bench 225 lbs about 20-22 times at his size/weight; and he had a lot of trouble covering and tackling Brandon Marshall when we played the Jets to open 2015. Even when he maintained good coverage - the matchup remained unfair. The NFL has a lot of big WRs that will be just as tough to tackle as they are to cover so keeping this in mind is important. I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Jackson is the better overall because of his ST value, but Humphrey is the better coverage CB IMO.
Edit: I think Humphrey gets drafted before Jackson
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Joe Haden is a really strong guy especially when he can bench 225 lbs about 20-22 times at his size/weight; and he had a lot of trouble covering and tackling Brandon Marshall when we played the Jets to open 2015. Even when he maintained good coverage - the matchup remained unfair. The NFL has a lot of big WRs that will be just as tough to tackle as they are to cover so keeping this in mind is important. I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Joe Haden is a really strong guy especially when he can bench 225 lbs about 20-22 times at his size/weight; and he had a lot of trouble covering and tackling Brandon Marshall when we played the Jets to open 2015. Even when he maintained good coverage - the matchup remained unfair. The NFL has a lot of big WRs that will be just as tough to tackle as they are to cover so keeping this in mind is important. I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
My only issue is that size does not make the player.....and that is why those 6-1" guys you mentioned are in the middle to later rounds.....because they aren't as good as the guys at the top...
So...based upon that....are you saying a first rounder(like Haden @ 5-11 / 190 #'s) is a worse option than a 6-1" 4th rounder?
Many of the all time best CB's....modern era included....are small guys who simply play ball.
Frank Minnefield, Darrell Green, Champ Bailey all say little guys can succeed in the modern game.....hell. every receiver Minnefield ever covered was bigger than him...taller and heavier....but, with him being a great player, it meant those measurements didnt matter....(and there are many many many more examples of great CB's under 6'-0" and 200#).....many many many....
Not necessarily you Fluges....but way too many people get hung up on measurements and weight and height and allow those things to affect their evaluation of talent and game performance..... I for one, will not be passing on a great player because he's 10 pounds less than I think he should be....or an inch shorter.....or has 8 inch hands, instead of 9 inch hands....etc etc....
So.....just for kicks.....give me your 6'-1" mid round CB that will bring more than Adore...?
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Tour, where are Tre'Davious White and Marlon Humphrey? Two first rounders I never seem to hear about on this board.
Tour, where are Tre'Davious White and Marlon Humphrey? Two first rounders I never seem to hear about on this board.
TBH.... I don't spend a s much time on CBs. The cutdowns simply don't give enough of a look at them. If I had all-22's, I'd spend more time.
Then there's the "will-they-be-there" factor... or do I care if they are? I feel in the gap between 1.12 and 2.01 many of the better CBs will get snapped up. And since I am a front2back-insideout kinda guy, I like Safeties in the 2nd... especially at the time I did "my board". Add that there is depth in this CB and I care a little less about the top of the class once I see value into Day 3.
Since then I've cooled a little more on our SS need and upped our FS need. So today I might focus more on CBs to the extent that I can.
Thought this was interesting regards grading big boards years later
http://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/hasan-who-crafted-the-best-big-board-in-2014/
Was interesting... can't wait until 2020 to see how my board does. Which, if so inclined, I could actually test using his methodology... and a PFF subscription.
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My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Joe Haden is a really strong guy especially when he can bench 225 lbs about 20-22 times at his size/weight; and he had a lot of trouble covering and tackling Brandon Marshall when we played the Jets to open 2015. Even when he maintained good coverage - the matchup remained unfair. The NFL has a lot of big WRs that will be just as tough to tackle as they are to cover so keeping this in mind is important. I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
My only issue is that size does not make the player.....and that is why those 6-1" guys you mentioned are in the middle to later rounds.....because they aren't as good as the guys at the top...
So...based upon that....are you saying a first rounder(like Haden @ 5-11 / 190 #'s) is a worse option than a 6-1" 4th rounder?
Many of the all time best CB's....modern era included....are small guys who simply play ball.
Frank Minnefield, Darrell Green, Champ Bailey all say little guys can succeed in the modern game.....hell. every receiver Minnefield ever covered was bigger than him...taller and heavier....but, with him being a great player, it meant those measurements didnt matter....(and there are many many many more examples of great CB's under 6'-0" and 200#).....many many many....
Not necessarily you Fluges....but way too many people get hung up on measurements and weight and height and allow those things to affect their evaluation of talent and game performance..... I for one, will not be passing on a great player because he's 10 pounds less than I think he should be....or an inch shorter.....or has 8 inch hands, instead of 9 inch hands....etc etc....
So.....just for kicks.....give me your 6'-1" mid round CB that will bring more than Adore...?
My only issue is that size does not make the player.....and that is why those 6-1" guys you mentioned are in the middle to later rounds.....because they aren't as good as the guys at the top...
So...based upon that....are you saying a first rounder(like Haden @ 5-11 / 190 #'s) is a worse option than a 6-1" 4th rounder?
Many of the all time best CB's....modern era included....are small guys who simply play ball.
Frank Minnefield, Darrell Green, Champ Bailey all say little guys can succeed in the modern game.....hell. every receiver Minnefield ever covered was bigger than him...taller and heavier....but, with him being a great player, it meant those measurements didnt matter....(and there are many many many more examples of great CB's under 6'-0" and 200#).....many many many....
Not necessarily you Fluges....but way too many people get hung up on measurements and weight and height and allow those things to affect their evaluation of talent and game performance..... I for one, will not be passing on a great player because he's 10 pounds less than I think he should be....or an inch shorter.....or has 8 inch hands, instead of 9 inch hands....etc etc....
So.....just for kicks.....give me your 6'-1" mid round CB that will bring more than Adore...?
You present some good challenges here Mud. I'll give it a whirl...
I loved Minnifield for playing way tougher than his size 25-30 years ago. Dixon was 5'11" backin that era. I think the game has changed to the bigger targets to exploit the smaller corners. I'm seeing less smurfs, fun bunches and Marks Brothers out wide in lieu of more Randy Moss, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Kelvin Benjamin, Jordy Nelson, Terelle Pryor, Kenny Britt, Dez Bryant, Allen Robinson, Brandon Marshall, Jordan Matthews, Keenan Allen, Demaryius Thomas, etc. Most of that group is at least 6'2" and with a mean of 6'3" before I get to the BB/Sean Payton enjoyments of lining up TEs like Gronk and Graham out wide to try to exploit their size advantages over corners. The last time we beat Drew Brees - we got out ahead and Payton adjusted by getting Graham isolated with Haden which led to 2 TD receptions and Haden feeling helpless to the size advantage in spite of decent coverage considering. Brees is accurate so what could Haden do against the catch radius of his 6'7" go to guy? This size, catch radius, and idea of lining up a TE all over the formation is making a guy like OJ Howard a very attractive 1st round prospect (while 4.5 speed, good hands and much improved blocking also help).
Here's some bigger Corners over 6':
Kevin King 6'2 5/8" 195 lbs Wash
Marlon Humphrey 6'1" 200 lbs Bama
Quincy Wilson 6'1" 212 lbs UF
Rasul Douglas 6'2" 204 lbs WVA
Greg Mabin 6'1 3/4" 200 lbs Iowa
Here's some at 6':
Marshon Lattimore 6' 195 lbs OSU
Teez Tabor 6' 200 lbs UF
Gareon Conley 6" 192 lbs OSU
Sidney Jones 6' 180 lbs (injured) Wash
Cordea Tankersly 6' 200 lbs Clemson
Chidobe Awuzie 6' 205 lbs Colorado
Marquez White 6' 184 lbs FSU
Adoree is listed at 5'10" 183 lbs and like I said - he got injured in the Rose Bowl.
As for Joe Haden - Athlon Sports 2016 Pro Football preview listed him at 5'11" 195 lbs and K'Wuan Williams was listed at 5'9" 183 lbs (and it felt like he couldn't finish quite a few games he started/held down the 3rd corner spot due to injuries/dings/concussions). Many of our DBs the last 2-3 years have had trouble staying healthy while concussion volumes back there seemed to spike in 2015.
I remembered when we played the Rams in 2015 where Gregg Williams had a physical secondary that laid the lumber on our receivers all game long. While CB Janoris Jenkins was only about 5'10" or 5'11" his compact muscle density tipped the scales at 198 lbs and Trumaine Johnson was 6'2" 208 lbs. We tried 1 bubble screen that ended in smelling salts for our lucky WR that caught the pass. I kept saying I sure would like me some of that on our defense. The good news is we added the DC that brought that thinking my way.
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Jackson is the better overall because of his ST value, but Humphrey is the better coverage CB IMO.
Edit: I think Humphrey gets drafted before Jackson
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
Joe Haden is a really strong guy especially when he can bench 225 lbs about 20-22 times at his size/weight; and he had a lot of trouble covering and tackling Brandon Marshall when we played the Jets to open 2015. Even when he maintained good coverage - the matchup remained unfair. The NFL has a lot of big WRs that will be just as tough to tackle as they are to cover so keeping this in mind is important. I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
I could be doing a Dave Kingmanesque swing from my ass and miss here - and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Ok.....hopefully Ill get you to Adore Adore' more'...if you follow my points....
First: You've admitted you've only seen one game he played in and he left that game with an injury....so you are discounting him without even seeing what he can do or how he plays.....??
second: You claim he will be susceptible to injury, due to his size(2" and 10 lbs) and the fact that he got hurt that one time....even though he played 3 fuil college seasons w/o missing a single start....and the only injury he had was a twisted ankle(which certainly was not caused by his size)...
Comments below confirm this...correct?
My worry about Jackson is how well can a 183 lb guy handle countless collisions in space in a bigger, faster, stronger world than college football. I only watched 1 of his games last year and he left the Rose Bowl early to injury so that was my first impression outside of highlights that emphasize all his positives. I love his agility/hips/change of direction and speed that lead to the ideal coverage skills.
I'm starting to look more for taller corners with longer arms due to this trend and what I've seen from a Richard Sherman. The nice thing is they seem more plentiful in the mid to late rounds because they don't always have the elite fitness test results of the shorter/lighter guys.
And, in the above comment, you then say there are some good ones in the mid to late rounds that you would prefer.....so I asked who and you gave me(basically) the top 10 CB prospects.....and no one? from the mid to late rounds.....(which is what you said)
Below I see a bunch of top picks, many(most) whom will be gone when we are picking CB....So, lets address a few things about some of these guys below, who are an inch or 2 taller....and a few pounds more....but who's other measureables are much worse(and these are being ignored, just for the sake of a few inches??)....
Guys like King, Jones and White are taller....but leaner....meaning(to me) they have less bulk and are more likely to break. Thicker guys can withstand more than skinny guys....and Id say Adore is as thick and tough as most of em....
Speed and athleticism are critical, and outside of Lattimore, none of these guys are better athletes or faster than Adore....and, as a CB, Id think speed and athletic ability rank higher than an extra inch in height...
And, speaking of athletic ability....Adore has a 37" vertical.....compare that to Tankersley at 29" or Tabor at 31" and see that Adore is the one most likely to challenge a tall WR, because he's the one who can actually keep up with AND jump with the biggest and best....
NOW......the extra goodies.....Adore is also a great kickoff and punt returner......and can play WR.....and RB.....WHY?.....because he;s a REAL football player through and through....boths side of the ball....and special teams too....this is the type of guy ALL teams need....and Id think you, of all people, would appreciate a guy like this who gives his all...always...
You present some good challenges here Mud. I'll give it a whirl...
Here's some bigger Corners over 6':
Kevin King 6'2 5/8" 195 lbs Wash
Marlon Humphrey 6'1" 200 lbs Bama
Quincy Wilson 6'1" 212 lbs UF
Rasul Douglas 6'2" 204 lbs WVA
Greg Mabin 6'1 3/4" 200 lbs Iowa
Here's some at 6':
Marshon Lattimore 6' 195 lbs OSU
Teez Tabor 6' 200 lbs UF
Gareon Conley 6" 192 lbs OSU
Sidney Jones 6' 180 lbs (injured) Wash
Cordea Tankersly 6' 200 lbs Clemson
Chidobe Awuzie 6' 205 lbs Colorado
Marquez White 6' 184 lbs FSU
Adoree is listed at 5'10" 183 lbs and like I said - he got injured twisted his ankle in the Rose Bowl.
As for Joe Haden - Athlon Sports 2016 Pro Football preview listed him at 5'11" 195 lbs and K'Wuan Williams was listed at 5'9" 183 lbs (and it felt like he couldn't finish quite a few games he started/held down the 3rd corner spot due to injuries/dings/concussions). Many of our DBs the last 2-3 years have had trouble staying healthy while concussion volumes back there seemed to spike in 2015.
Quick notes on this.....1) concussions are not a result of being a couple inches shorter. .....2)none of our small DB were hurt due to their size......3) You seem to LOVE our new guy Boddy Calhoun who is only 5-9".....and Taylor who is 5-11"////
So....in the end....you have completely discounted a multi talented - old school - always healthy - 3 way player without even watching him play, simply because he's an inch or 2 shorter than you prefer(even though you love our guys who are the same size)...... and you have declared you'd rather pick a lower ranked (taller) player who is apparently available later in the draft(though you cant/havent' named him).....all w/o seeing a single game of his stellar 3 year college career....
And I hope Ive established that his speed and leaping ability allow him to do everything(and more) than most of those guys on the list.....and the injury thing is just worry on your part...there is no precedent for it with smaller DB's or Adore....none...
I guess we each have a way to rank players, but I prefer the ole "watch him before I judge" rule.....
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All things being equal in so many other CB attributes... speed, agility/fluidity, hops, want-to... sure you put a premium on the bigger, taller ones, but... all things are not always equal. The more compact players more often seem to have the other attributes you look for in a corner.
Fortunately for the smaller corners the same still tends to apply to WRs. For every AJ or Julio or Megatron, there's a couple Sammies or Dorsetts or Adams-es...
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
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Mud it sounds like you just resolved your dilemma over Jackson vs. Humphrey.
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
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Yes I did....after that exercise, I now want him at 12.....HA!
Here ya go Fluges.....at least watch a few highlights before you kick him to the curb...
And please note how he out jumps those taller WR's....over and over again....for the ints and knock downs....
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
Why not post actual cutups that aren't just highlights? Might find something you don't like....?
Simple...Fluges hasnt watch a single game, so I wouldn't expect him to sit here and watch individual game tapes of the guy.....if he didnt watch one, why would he watch 40?.....I simply offered this up as a sampling of what he can do and his versatility as an offensive weapon, CB and return man...and it only takes 5 minutes instead of 40 hours....
All players have warts....Adore is no different....but if you follow the conversation, thats not the point.....
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