F draft grade
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A nice draft for the Browns. I still don't like Peppers + 2018 first rounder vs. Hooker. Best pick was Kizer - which may not pan out but worth the risk at that spot. Could also have selected Howard at 12 and Peppers at 33. Those would have made it an A draft. For now I'll give it a B+
Peppers + 2018 first rounder vs. Hooker. /// Howard at 12 and Peppers at 33
1) Hooker is good, but he's not good enough to be a quality starter at two positions at the same time.
Don't forget.. the reason Peppers had bad stats this past season is because he accepted the role of 3rd LB so the team could do well.. all he did was one of set the edge, blitz, or fake blitz and drop into shallow zone
2) Howard + Peppers vs Ngoku + Peppers + 2018 first-rounder is... also won by the third quality starter at a position that we don't have on this team yet.
In case you may not have noticed, we lack a lot of talent. Until we don't, better move long term for the roster is more quality starters.
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
I can't speak for all of us old fogeys but this Sickasucky would rather be Dances with Woofs again.
I was ecstatic we didn't trade up for a QB in round 1 in this draft. We've traded up for Phipps, Quinn, Weeden and Manziel just so guys like Sipe, DA, and Hoyer could end up outperforming them. It's about time we stopped blowing off history here. In doing so, we ended up with 3 first round draft picks...
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
I suppose you think I hate Garrett because he's from Texas, and Peppers because he went to Michigan? Bite me. Wasn't bitching about the first three selections. Us old guys know crap when we see it, and until he improves 500% Kizer is crap. He's nowhere on the anal- litics scale, so why the hell did they draft hm- huh? I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why I think he's a piss poor pick, so go look up my comments in other threads.
If you think I'm down on Kizer because he's not Trubisky? You're full of shit. I understand enough of the game to know Kizer needs a ton of work to be worth a damn. Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader.
Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent.
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OK a few from sources:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-team-picks-results-analysis
http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-full-analysis-of-every-teams-2017-class/
http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-full-analysis-of-every-teams-2017-class/
Walter Football by player and then a team grade-have to click through it.
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgrades.php
Interesting comments on the K from Walterfootball:
Cleveland Browns: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State: B+ Grade
For those who know little about Zane Gonzalez, the Arizona State kicker drilled seven of his nine attempts from beyond 50 in 2016. The Browns would've won two games had they owned a better kicker, so Gonzalez will surely be an upgrade.Also: "The Browns did a very good job overall with their draft. It wasn't great, but I think a B+ suffices. The Browns getting a B+ grade for anything is like winning a Super Bowl, so congratulations, Cleveland! I look forward to the parade."
EDIT: And an A+ from foxsports: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-grades-2017-final-teams-cowboys-bears-giants-steelers-how-did-your-team-do-042917
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
I suppose you think I hate Garrett because he's from Texas, and Peppers because he went to Michigan? Bite me. Wasn't bitching about the first three selections. Us old guys know crap when we see it, and until he improves 500% Kizer is crap. He's nowhere on the anal- litics scale, so why the hell did they draft hm- huh? I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why I think he's a piss poor pick, so go look up my comments in other threads.
If you think I'm down on Kizer because he's not Trubisky? You're full of shit. I understand enough of the game to know Kizer needs a ton of work to be worth a damn. Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader.
Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent.
There are certain things about a QB that are either impossible or hard to change like height and arm strength and athleticism. He is all set there which is why he has the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft. I don't knock you for being critical of his mechanics and leadership skills but both of those things are teachable. It will be the coaches job to fix the mechanics and I have personally seen leadership emerge in people who previously appeared to have none once their circumstances changed. Give the guy a chance, and if it doesn't pan out, like you said, we've got 2018.I suppose you think I hate Garrett because he's from Texas, and Peppers because he went to Michigan? Bite me. Wasn't bitching about the first three selections. Us old guys know crap when we see it, and until he improves 500% Kizer is crap. He's nowhere on the anal- litics scale, so why the hell did they draft hm- huh? I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why I think he's a piss poor pick, so go look up my comments in other threads.
If you think I'm down on Kizer because he's not Trubisky? You're full of shit. I understand enough of the game to know Kizer needs a ton of work to be worth a damn. Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader.
Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent.
And from a practical standpoint I also think the Browns would've traded for 5 to grab Trubisky if he were available and I also think KC leap-frogged the Browns to get Mahomes because the Browns were going to take him at 12. This explains the inexpensive trade down where I also think they could've gotten more, but they just took what they could get.
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
LOL! I didn't want either of the QBs from Ohio black or white. In fact I didn't want any QB in this class at all. Just never saw anything that screamed "franchise", only "desperatin". Yeah he was a value pick, just not for my value. I'd have gone another great defensive player right there and used next year's picks to find the franchise QB.
I am an old bastard, but I also clearly see what I do and don't want for a QB and he is in next year's class. Every team taking a QB this year where they did in rounds 1 & 2 reached, including the Browns IMO. They were all artificially moved up the board from start to finish.
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"you pick a qb every year until you find the guy"
"What the fuck why would the browns pick the biggest most physically gifted qb in the class? Morons. Worst draft ever!"
- the browns board
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
I need to keep reminding myself that this Board isn't a representative sample of all Browns fans because if it were I'd be clinically depressed.
I need to keep reminding myself that this Board isn't a representative sample of all Browns fans because if it were I'd be clinically depressed.
For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss.
Could also have selected Howard at 12 and Peppers at 33.
Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him...
Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader.Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent.
That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio?
As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine.
I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head.
In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I need to keep reminding myself that this Board isn't a representative sample of all Browns fans because if it were I'd be clinically depressed.
For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss.
Could also have selected Howard at 12 and Peppers at 33.
Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him...
Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader.Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent.
That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio?
As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine.
I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head.
In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h.
For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss.
Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him...
That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio?
As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine.
I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head.
In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h.
Well said!
This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary...
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For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss.
Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him...
That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio?
As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine.
I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head.
In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h.
Well said!
This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary...
Well said!
This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary...
Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there....
So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold.....
So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND....
Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch....
Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's.....
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Well said!
This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary...
Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there....
So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold.....
So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND....
Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch....
Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's.....
Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there....
So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold.....
So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND....
Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch....
Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's.....
First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday.
Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for.
Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there....
So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold.....
So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND....
Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch....
Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's.....
First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday.
Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for.
Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12.
First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday.
Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for.
Something tells me he doesnt see himself as #3.....and might expect "limited" competition from Kessler.....And when he realizes he actually IS #3, it'll be an issue for him....hope he steps up and takes the bull by the horns, etc etc etc.....but, his history suggests that he presses in these situations instead...
Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12.
As long as you're gaining ground....but, my concern is when he gets knocked down(repeatedly)...how well does he spring back?
In other news.....those last 4 games will be much too important to turn em over to a rookie.....
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No one can say what the grade is. Wait until the season is over.
You may have to wait a lot longer than a season to see how a player pans out.
I believe the grades are based on things like if a team has filled its needs, how many highly ranked players a team acquires, and "steals" of the draft.
You may have to wait a lot longer than a season to see how a player pans out.
I believe the grades are based on things like if a team has filled its needs, how many highly ranked players a team acquires, and "steals" of the draft.
Yes. Of course. The Browns did fill a lot of needs....but then they have "filled needs" in the past with a lot of failed players. I won't go through that litany here. And they also got a number of "steals" if by steals you mean something like "player X was listed as the 95th best overall prospect, and the Browns took him with pick #150" ....that sort of thing. And just like anything else, these "steals" could be fools gold as well. Yes, more than a year is needed. Evaluations are still out on players drafted last year, and the year before that.
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People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
And there are the "young dumbasses" who know even less....and who see race in everything. Because they are young and dumb....lacking in experience and intellect.
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Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there....
So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold.....
So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND....
Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch....
Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's.....
First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday.
Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for.
Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12.
First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday.
Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for.
Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12.
Well, if we still do not believe we have found the right guy, then sure,...we should still be in the market next year. But, could we turn into the Jets? Take a 2d rounder at QB...then shy away from taking a QB the next year? I heard lots and lots of people on ESPN and other networks say that as Jet fans they felt that the Jets should absolutely take Watson if he is there at #6. Well, he was there, and they didn't take him. They seemed to shy away. Could the Browns do that next year? Shy away because they think, maybe, possibly they have their guy sitting on the bench that they took in round two the previous year?
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Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed...
But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?....
Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?.....
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How many years have the Browns got an awesome grade for the draft then it doesn't pan out? You guys are jinxing it. Shhh.
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I'll beat him to it.
A+ for rounds 1, 3-7. Epic FAIL in round two. If you bat .800 in the draft, you've done well. Don't get all excited just yet though. I even have faint hope Kizer might not be the total POS I have him rated at now.Garrett is cool and personable. He will take the guys out on a fossil hunt in the local shale beds.
Suck it up already, sissy
Suck it up already, sissy
I'll say it for the last time TC. I AM SO OVER US NOT DRAFTING TRUBISKY. That doesn't preclude me not loving every stinking pick we made. If you want to give Kizer love, great. Time will tell if he's the right pick or not- huh? Maybe he'll surprise the shit out of me and have a Joe Montana level career. That would be great if it happens. So, exxxccccuuuusssseee me if I'm not seeing it- yet. I'm entitled to my opinion.
People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game.
This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland
Still not getting it I see. Hated the Quinn pick- white guy from Ohio. I've heaped praise on Myles Garrett, changed my mind and said we should draft him first instead of Mitch, and let the cards fall where they may. I've warmed up to Dr Peppers too. Take off the race blinders pal- I had a black room mate when I got out of school- a pretty cool dude. I don't give a crap if they're white, black, yellow, or green if they came from Mars- as long as they can play at a high level. One of my favorite players on the Browns is Joe Haden- so take that race card and shove it.
BTW- Some of us are negative because we're tired of watching the Browns play like clowns virtually uninterrupted since- like forever. It's a real good way to drain the optimism out of you and turn you into a first class cynic. Yup some of us oldsters happen to remember the 60s when the Browns were consistently good. As I said a bunch of times last year- I've adopted the Missouri motto. SHOW ME
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