F draft grade
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Clearly the jury is still out deliberating. To say its good or bad is speculation and to argue is moot because you guys don't know. If you knew you would be working for an NFL franchise; not hustling money trying to blow someone behind a garbage dumpster.
To say its good or bad is speculation and to argue is moot because you guys don't know.
Lemme guess... Philosophy major?
If we all knew, Socrates, then there'd be nothing to discuss, unless we were into mutually congratulatory circle jerks. If I want that, I can unmute Cartman and follow him and his band of merry men.
Here's how it works...
- when you don't know the future, you look at the past and present for all the information you can and have time to digest.
- Then you form an opinion of the basis of the digested info... call it a hypothesis, if you like.
- Then you share that opinion with others and they poke and prod at it... sometimes they punch a hole in it... sometimes they agree with it wholeheartedly... sometimes they say, "Yes, and..." and build on it, making it better.
It's a lot more fun than sitting around for the future to become the present and then saying, "I did not know that yesterday, but had I thought a little bit about, I might have thought it likely."
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Peppers would have been gone by 33, FYI
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Peppers would have been gone by 33, FYI
A team said that they were looking to draft Peppers late first? Link?
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Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed...
But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?....
Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?.....
I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time.
I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time.
Instead of the 4 that we do have?
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I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time.
Instead of the 4 that we do have?
Instead of the 4 that we do have?
When you have a lousy OL and running game, throw in uncertain receivers you need more fresh meat to throw into the fire.
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Instead of the 4 that we do have?
When you have a lousy OL and running game, throw in uncertain receivers you need more fresh meat to throw into the fire.
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I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time.
Instead of the 4 that we do have?
Instead of the 4 that we do have?
Yes. I'm ok with some UDFA on the back end because you're just kind of trying him out and he won't play in games. Also ok with Osweiler because we already know for the most part he's not the guy. But why have both Kessler and Kizer AND enough juice to go get whoever you want next year? Makes no sense.
My ideal scenario given the situation is Kessler proves no doubt he is the guy. We take two non-QB studs in round 1 next year. Kizer gets to play 4 games in 2018 because Kessler's hurt or something. He looks good and we win all 4. Then after 2018 we trade him for a first or second. We keep Osweiler around as a backup and cut Hogan in a couple years. The Sashi way.
More likely it will go something like this:
Osweiler starts this season and looks mediocre. He gets hurt between games 4 and 8. Kessler plays for awhile and looks good but gets hurt around game 12. Kizer plays for 4 games and also looks decent. Osweiler is released. We use one or both of our first rounders (via trade up) for a QB in 2018. We have no idea what we really have in Kessler or Kizer. Eventually we cut them both and get nothing for them. Potentially, they take the reigns elsewhere and are good. 2018 QB starts game 1 and looks mediocre.
My ideal scenario from a week ago:
No QB in the entire draft. Kessler starts all season. Either proves he's the guy or proves he's not. Osweiler is traded to some needy team at some point for a 3rd. Take a first rounder in 2018 if Kessler's not the guy or take another stud if he is. If he is, take your backup in the late rounds.
There is no roadmap that Sashi and co. could have that makes this QB room make sense, unless they already know for a fact Kessler's not the guy. If that's the case, then you better play Kizer early on.
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Instead of the 4 that we do have?
Yes. I'm ok with some UDFA on the back end because you're just kind of trying him out and he won't play in games. Also ok with Osweiler because we already know for the most part he's not the guy. But why have both Kessler and Kizer AND enough juice to go get whoever you want next year? Makes no sense.
My ideal scenario given the situation is Kessler proves no doubt he is the guy. We take two non-QB studs in round 1 next year. Kizer gets to play 4 games in 2018 because Kessler's hurt or something. He looks good and we win all 4. Then after 2018 we trade him for a first or second. We keep Osweiler around as a backup and cut Hogan in a couple years. The Sashi way.
More likely it will go something like this:
Osweiler starts this season and looks mediocre. He gets hurt between games 4 and 8. Kessler plays for awhile and looks good but gets hurt around game 12. Kizer plays for 4 games and also looks decent. Osweiler is released. We use one or both of our first rounders (via trade up) for a QB in 2018. We have no idea what we really have in Kessler or Kizer. Eventually we cut them both and get nothing for them. Potentially, they take the reigns elsewhere and are good. 2018 QB starts game 1 and looks mediocre.
My ideal scenario from a week ago:
No QB in the entire draft. Kessler starts all season. Either proves he's the guy or proves he's not. Osweiler is traded to some needy team at some point for a 3rd. Take a first rounder in 2018 if Kessler's not the guy or take another stud if he is. If he is, take your backup in the late rounds.
There is no roadmap that Sashi and co. could have that makes this QB room make sense, unless they already know for a fact Kessler's not the guy. If that's the case, then you better play Kizer early on.
Yes. I'm ok with some UDFA on the back end because you're just kind of trying him out and he won't play in games. Also ok with Osweiler because we already know for the most part he's not the guy. But why have both Kessler and Kizer AND enough juice to go get whoever you want next year? Makes no sense.
My ideal scenario given the situation is Kessler proves no doubt he is the guy. We take two non-QB studs in round 1 next year. Kizer gets to play 4 games in 2018 because Kessler's hurt or something. He looks good and we win all 4. Then after 2018 we trade him for a first or second. We keep Osweiler around as a backup and cut Hogan in a couple years. The Sashi way.
More likely it will go something like this:
Osweiler starts this season and looks mediocre. He gets hurt between games 4 and 8. Kessler plays for awhile and looks good but gets hurt around game 12. Kizer plays for 4 games and also looks decent. Osweiler is released. We use one or both of our first rounders (via trade up) for a QB in 2018. We have no idea what we really have in Kessler or Kizer. Eventually we cut them both and get nothing for them. Potentially, they take the reigns elsewhere and are good. 2018 QB starts game 1 and looks mediocre.
My ideal scenario from a week ago:
No QB in the entire draft. Kessler starts all season. Either proves he's the guy or proves he's not. Osweiler is traded to some needy team at some point for a 3rd. Take a first rounder in 2018 if Kessler's not the guy or take another stud if he is. If he is, take your backup in the late rounds.
There is no roadmap that Sashi and co. could have that makes this QB room make sense, unless they already know for a fact Kessler's not the guy. If that's the case, then you better play Kizer early on.
The QB room does make sense.
We have a rookie who needs time to develop, a young mid-round guy with potential and a reclaimed former starting QB with playoff experience. The latter two will battle it out while the former sits and learns until he surpasses the others.
Osweiler will be shopped as trade bait for a team that loses its starting QB early. If he's moved, our QB depth chart becomes Kessler, Kizer, whoever.
If he's not moved, our depth chart becomes Kessler, Osweiler, Kizer.
Barring some unforeseen circumstances, Osweiler will likely not be in the roster in 2018, Kizer will be the starter and Kessler the backup.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Is the QB room perfect? Of course not. But look at it this way, "Is the QB room BETTER than last year?" I think it's a definite YES. Granted, the bar was set pretty effing low, but lets take progress where we can get it. You can argue we were better at the QB position last year, and I would say you'd be wrong. Brock Osweiler took two teams to the playoffs in the last two years. I'm not dumb, and I realize he played for outstanding defenses, but he still was part of teams that WON. That can't be a bad thing. Also, Kessler had some decent moments, and probably should've had two wins under his belt. You have to figure he won't get WORSE from last year, and there's a chance he'll get better. Possibly much better. And guess what? We now have a QB who has the size many fans have been waiting for, and there's no rush throw his rookie ass into the game. We didn't spend an elite resource on Kizer, and I think it's about perfect. If Kizer shows he can handle the load and consistently move the ball, he might get a shot to start. I seriously DOUBT it, but stranger things have happened, right?
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Actually two QBs with size and an NFL arm... can't discount Brock on those counts.
The cool thing I see is that as of now we have three QB candidates that are more similar, i.e., pass first, run second, than what we had going into camp last season when RG stuck out as different... by nature, if not by intent.
Will one emerge fully connected from talent thru head to Hue's approach? Dunno... but at least Hue can have one approach that comes closer to fitting all three. And that has to help "the QB room" as well.
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Yes. I'm ok with some UDFA on the back end because you're just kind of trying him out and he won't play in games. Also ok with Osweiler because we already know for the most part he's not the guy. But why have both Kessler and Kizer AND enough juice to go get whoever you want next year? Makes no sense.
My ideal scenario given the situation is Kessler proves no doubt he is the guy. We take two non-QB studs in round 1 next year. Kizer gets to play 4 games in 2018 because Kessler's hurt or something. He looks good and we win all 4. Then after 2018 we trade him for a first or second. We keep Osweiler around as a backup and cut Hogan in a couple years. The Sashi way.
More likely it will go something like this:
Osweiler starts this season and looks mediocre. He gets hurt between games 4 and 8. Kessler plays for awhile and looks good but gets hurt around game 12. Kizer plays for 4 games and also looks decent. Osweiler is released. We use one or both of our first rounders (via trade up) for a QB in 2018. We have no idea what we really have in Kessler or Kizer. Eventually we cut them both and get nothing for them. Potentially, they take the reigns elsewhere and are good. 2018 QB starts game 1 and looks mediocre.
My ideal scenario from a week ago:
No QB in the entire draft. Kessler starts all season. Either proves he's the guy or proves he's not. Osweiler is traded to some needy team at some point for a 3rd. Take a first rounder in 2018 if Kessler's not the guy or take another stud if he is. If he is, take your backup in the late rounds.
There is no roadmap that Sashi and co. could have that makes this QB room make sense, unless they already know for a fact Kessler's not the guy. If that's the case, then you better play Kizer early on.
The QB room does make sense.
We have a rookie who needs time to develop, a young mid-round guy with potential and a reclaimed former starting QB with playoff experience. The latter two will battle it out while the former sits and learns until he surpasses the others.
Osweiler will be shopped as trade bait for a team that loses its starting QB early. If he's moved, our QB depth chart becomes Kessler, Kizer, whoever.
If he's not moved, our depth chart becomes Kessler, Osweiler, Kizer.
Barring some unforeseen circumstances, Osweiler will likely not be in the roster in 2018, Kizer will be the starter and Kessler the backup.
The QB room does make sense.
We have a rookie who needs time to develop, a young mid-round guy with potential and a reclaimed former starting QB with playoff experience. The latter two will battle it out while the former sits and learns until he surpasses the others.
Osweiler will be shopped as trade bait for a team that loses its starting QB early. If he's moved, our QB depth chart becomes Kessler, Kizer, whoever.
If he's not moved, our depth chart becomes Kessler, Osweiler, Kizer.
Barring some unforeseen circumstances, Osweiler will likely not be in the roster in 2018, Kizer will be the starter and Kessler the backup.
Thanks for the breakdown. But it seems there's an underlying assumption there that the two non-Kizer's will fail. If they don't, Kizer is a waste.
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Kizer, or any QB is only a waste if they can't play.
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Is the QB room perfect? Of course not. But look at it this way, "Is the QB room BETTER than last year?" I think it's a definite YES. Granted, the bar was set pretty effing low, but lets take progress where we can get it. You can argue we were better at the QB position last year, and I would say you'd be wrong. Brock Osweiler took two teams to the playoffs in the last two years. I'm not dumb, and I realize he played for outstanding defenses, but he still was part of teams that WON. That can't be a bad thing. Also, Kessler had some decent moments, and probably should've had two wins under his belt. You have to figure he won't get WORSE from last year, and there's a chance he'll get better. Possibly much better. And guess what? We now have a QB who has the size many fans have been waiting for, and there's no rush throw his rookie ass into the game. We didn't spend an elite resource on Kizer, and I think it's about perfect. If Kizer shows he can handle the load and consistently move the ball, he might get a shot to start. I seriously DOUBT it, but stranger things have happened, right?
Is the QB room perfect? Of course not. But look at it this way, "Is the QB room BETTER than last year?" I think it's a definite YES. Granted, the bar was set pretty effing low, but lets take progress where we can get it. You can argue we were better at the QB position last year, and I would say you'd be wrong. Brock Osweiler took two teams to the playoffs in the last two years. I'm not dumb, and I realize he played for outstanding defenses, but he still was part of teams that WON. That can't be a bad thing. Also, Kessler had some decent moments, and probably should've had two wins under his belt. You have to figure he won't get WORSE from last year, and there's a chance he'll get better. Possibly much better. And guess what? We now have a QB who has the size many fans have been waiting for, and there's no rush throw his rookie ass into the game. We didn't spend an elite resource on Kizer, and I think it's about perfect. If Kizer shows he can handle the load and consistently move the ball, he might get a shot to start. I seriously DOUBT it, but stranger things have happened, right?
I'm not at all saying we don't have more talent and skill in the QB room. I think we do have that, absolutely. But I don't see how some of that talent either won't pan out or won't be wasted.
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The QB room does make sense.
We have a rookie who needs time to develop, a young mid-round guy with potential and a reclaimed former starting QB with playoff experience. The latter two will battle it out while the former sits and learns until he surpasses the others.
Osweiler will be shopped as trade bait for a team that loses its starting QB early. If he's moved, our QB depth chart becomes Kessler, Kizer, whoever.
If he's not moved, our depth chart becomes Kessler, Osweiler, Kizer.
Barring some unforeseen circumstances, Osweiler will likely not be in the roster in 2018, Kizer will be the starter and Kessler the backup.
Thanks for the breakdown. But it seems there's an underlying assumption there that the two non-Kizer's will fail. If they don't, Kizer is a waste.
Thanks for the breakdown. But it seems there's an underlying assumption there that the two non-Kizer's will fail. If they don't, Kizer is a waste.
Not a waste, just another asset.
Every player is either a piece that is beneficial to us on the field, or a piece that we can move to fill other holes.
Say Kessler succeeds, do you believe we could maneuver a trade that either allows us to recoup a future second round pick or a mid level starter at a position of need? If so, then I'd say the pick was probably a success in some way.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Thanks for the breakdown. But it seems there's an underlying assumption there that the two non-Kizer's will fail. If they don't, Kizer is a waste.
Not a waste, just another asset.
Every player is either a piece that is beneficial to us on the field, or a piece that we can move to fill other holes.
Say Kessler succeeds, do you believe we could maneuver a trade that either allows us to recoup a future second round pick or a mid level starter at a position of need? If so, then I'd say the pick was probably a success in some way.
Not a waste, just another asset.
Every player is either a piece that is beneficial to us on the field, or a piece that we can move to fill other holes.
Say Kessler succeeds, do you believe we could maneuver a trade that either allows us to recoup a future second round pick or a mid level starter at a position of need? If so, then I'd say the pick was probably a success in some way.
Educate me because I honestly don't know. Outside of the Patriots, who's traded a backup for the kind of capital you're talking about?
If your premises are correct, then I would agree with your conclusion.
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Thanks for the breakdown. But it seems there's an underlying assumption there that the two non-Kizer's will fail. If they don't, Kizer is a waste.
Not a waste, just another asset.
Every player is either a piece that is beneficial to us on the field, or a piece that we can move to fill other holes.
Say Kessler succeeds, do you believe we could maneuver a trade that either allows us to recoup a future second round pick or a mid level starter at a position of need? If so, then I'd say the pick was probably a success in some way.
Not a waste, just another asset.
Bingo... next to draft picks there is no better draft capital than viable QBs.
Educate me because I honestly don't know. Outside of the Patriots, who's traded a backup for the kind of capital you're talking about?
If your premises are correct, then I would agree with your conclusion.
Alex Smith for one... Brett Favre for another... hmmm... Matt Schaub... Carson Palmer... Kevin Kolb...
Got the first two on my own... the rest came from: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/previous_quarterback_trades.html
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Not a waste, just another asset.
Every player is either a piece that is beneficial to us on the field, or a piece that we can move to fill other holes.
Say Kessler succeeds, do you believe we could maneuver a trade that either allows us to recoup a future second round pick or a mid level starter at a position of need? If so, then I'd say the pick was probably a success in some way.
Educate me because I honestly don't know. Outside of the Patriots, who's traded a backup for the kind of capital you're talking about?
If your premises are correct, then I would agree with your conclusion.
Educate me because I honestly don't know. Outside of the Patriots, who's traded a backup for the kind of capital you're talking about?
If your premises are correct, then I would agree with your conclusion.
1995: Jacksonville acquires Mark Brunell from Green Bay for third- and fifth-round picks.
1998: Buffalo acquires Rob Johnson from Jacksonville for first- and fourth-round picks.
1999: Carolina acquires Jeff Lewis from Denver for third- and fourth-round picks.
2000: New Orleans acquires Aaron Brooks and tight end Lamont Hall from Green Bay for a third round pick and linebacker K.D. Williams.
2001: Seattle acquires Matt Hasselbeck from Green Bay for a swap of first-round picks (the Packers moved up to No. 10 while the Seahawks went to No. 17) and a third-round pick.
2004: Miami acquires A.J. Feeley from Philadelphia for a second-round pick.
2007: Houston acquires Matt Schaub from Atlanta for a swap of first-round picks in 2007 (Atlanta moved from No. 10 to No.
and second round picks in 2007 and 2008.2009: Kansas City acquires Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel from New England for a second-round pick.
2010: Seattle acquires Charlie Whitehurst from San Diego swap of 2010 second-round picks and a 2011 third-round selection.
2011: Arizona acquires Kevin Kolb from Philadelphia for a second-round pick and Pro Bowl cornerback Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie.
It's not outside the realm of reasoning that we could pull it off, especially if our "backup" is a 21 year old, 6'4" second year player.
Granted, I don't see that being the case at all...but I have faith that we'd at least be able to come out even should Kessler become a franchise guy.
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Add that the hot rumor going into Day 2 was that the packers were contemplating picking and stashing Kizer, the last of the BIG, 2017 QB prospects on their roster.
Hasn't been done ins awhile, but once upon a time "QB stashing" was not an uncommon draft practice.
Turned out they were just trying to generate some trade interest, but failed to suck in "Cool-Hand Sashi."
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