Is Brock a keeper?
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At what, playing in the CFL? Good luck with that.
A CFL expert as well? Wow...
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Is Brock a keeper? Damned if I know... one decent year... one train wreck... does need a good one to average "average", but things don't work that way... not at QB... maybe in the stack market, a/k/a "reversion to the mean"... but not at QB.
I do have to say that I don't like the attitude he displayed in his interview yesterday. It screamed the opposite of "team leader" to me... which first required you be part of the team.
Is Brock a keeper? Damned if I know... one decent year... one train wreck... does need a good one to average "average", but things don't work that way... not at QB... maybe in the stack market, a/k/a "reversion to the mean"... but not at QB.
I do have to say that I don't like the attitude he displayed in his interview yesterday. It screamed the opposite of "team leader" to me... which first required you be part of the team.
I just watched the snippet on Browns.com and got the opposite read. Asked a question, gave answer, got a ridiculous redirect and shut it down. If that were me I would have asked that jack hole reporter how man hours of film he watched. Too often "reporters" get let off the hook for outrageous claims. On ATH the other day Plaschke got called out for saying he sees MLB teams fake rainouts all the time. When asked when was the last one he remembered, he couldn't answer he just smiled and said trust me all the time, bullshit.
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Going into his fourth year in Denver I was ready to bail on him, but that preseason he flashed and it got me excited about the future and wanted to see more of him. Then the regular season came and it was a mixed bag. I kept waiting for it to all click for him after getting a couple games under him and have chemistry with the ones, but that never really came. People keep saying that Elway was ready to pay him starter money but really he wanted to pay him a split between starter and backup money on a prove-it deal, but we were in a tough spot without another option so that price went up. I thought Kessler flashed more than what I have seen from Brock. He just hasn't been a put it on my shoulders kind of guy, more of a I won't lose it for my team if they are superior to the opposition kind of guy. I think he provides good depth for you if Kizer isn't ready, but don't expect any more than that from him going into year 6 of his career. Hope I am wrong for your guys sake and it finally clicks for him, but he has been in the league for a while now even though people talk like he is a second/third year guy.
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Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list, but maybe our "system" is a better fit... so who knows?
So...
- What's the mood in Denver given their continuing QB choice of Siemian and Lynch going into 2017?
- What's Kelly's (my official, 2017 "Darkhorse") timeline to see the practice field and the fan hopes for him?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
There's a poll at cleveland.com on this below article with an account of the exchange...
Did Brock Osweiler react well to questions about his 2016 season? (poll)
Posted on May 25, 2017 at 7:27 AM
By Scott Patsko, cleveland.comCLEVELAND, Ohio - Brock Osweiler had his first meeting with local media Wednesday as a Browns quarterback. The 6-foot-7, sixth-year pro was polite and thoughtful with his answers. He had a good anecdote about learning of his trade to the Browns while standing in a sand trap on a golf course.
He surely knew questions would come about his struggles last season with the Texans. Although he was 8-6 as the starter, and the Texans made the playoffs, Osweiler completed just 56 percent of his passes, had 15 touchdowns to 16 interceptions and a QB rating of 72 percent.
That led to his being seen as a throw-in with a deal that gave the Browns a second-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
So on Wednesday, he was asked about those struggles. At first, he declined to talk about his relationship with the Texans. Then cleveland.com columnist Doug Lesmerises asked Osweiler about his 2016 performance. Here's how Lesmierises described the exchange on a story posted Wednesday:
When I asked Osweiler if he was good enough to be a starter in this league, regardless of the system, he said "absolutely."
Twice.So ... why?
As Osweiler stood off to the side of the Browns practice fields in Berea after the second day of OTAs, in a drizzle and surrounded by Cleveland reporters, that's what mattered.
Why do you think you are good enough, when every bit of proof from your big chance last season would say otherwise?
"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," Osweiler said.That's the quote that went wild Tuesday, picked up and pasted across the web before we had even finished interviews with the rest of the players made available, including two other quarterbacks. And in the moment, you can't let it stand. It's not reality. The film, at last year, would tell you the opposite.
"Some people would say the proof's not in the film, from last year," I said.
"That's OK," Osweiler said, nodding.What did you think about how Osweiler handled questions about last season? Was he right to insinuate that he played better than people think? Did you want him to answer those questions differently?
Check out the poll below and let us know what you think. You can explain your answer in the comment section.So far over 70% of those who have voted could care less.
I did care, but it's getting so overblown now that I'm growing numb...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
There's a poll at cleveland.com on this below article with an account of the exchange...
Did Brock Osweiler react well to questions about his 2016 season? (poll)
Posted on May 25, 2017 at 7:27 AM
By Scott Patsko, cleveland.comCLEVELAND, Ohio - Brock Osweiler had his first meeting with local media Wednesday as a Browns quarterback. The 6-foot-7, sixth-year pro was polite and thoughtful with his answers. He had a good anecdote about learning of his trade to the Browns while standing in a sand trap on a golf course.
He surely knew questions would come about his struggles last season with the Texans. Although he was 8-6 as the starter, and the Texans made the playoffs, Osweiler completed just 56 percent of his passes, had 15 touchdowns to 16 interceptions and a QB rating of 72 percent.
That led to his being seen as a throw-in with a deal that gave the Browns a second-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
So on Wednesday, he was asked about those struggles. At first, he declined to talk about his relationship with the Texans. Then cleveland.com columnist Doug Lesmerises asked Osweiler about his 2016 performance. Here's how Lesmierises described the exchange on a story posted Wednesday:
When I asked Osweiler if he was good enough to be a starter in this league, regardless of the system, he said "absolutely."
Twice.So ... why?
As Osweiler stood off to the side of the Browns practice fields in Berea after the second day of OTAs, in a drizzle and surrounded by Cleveland reporters, that's what mattered.
Why do you think you are good enough, when every bit of proof from your big chance last season would say otherwise?
"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," Osweiler said.That's the quote that went wild Tuesday, picked up and pasted across the web before we had even finished interviews with the rest of the players made available, including two other quarterbacks. And in the moment, you can't let it stand. It's not reality. The film, at last year, would tell you the opposite.
"Some people would say the proof's not in the film, from last year," I said.
"That's OK," Osweiler said, nodding.What did you think about how Osweiler handled questions about last season? Was he right to insinuate that he played better than people think? Did you want him to answer those questions differently?
Check out the poll below and let us know what you think. You can explain your answer in the comment section.So far over 70% of those who have voted could care less.
I did care, but it's getting so overblown now that I'm growing numb...
There's a poll at cleveland.com on this below article with an account of the exchange...
Did Brock Osweiler react well to questions about his 2016 season? (poll)
Posted on May 25, 2017 at 7:27 AM
By Scott Patsko, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio - Brock Osweiler had his first meeting with local media Wednesday as a Browns quarterback. The 6-foot-7, sixth-year pro was polite and thoughtful with his answers. He had a good anecdote about learning of his trade to the Browns while standing in a sand trap on a golf course.
He surely knew questions would come about his struggles last season with the Texans. Although he was 8-6 as the starter, and the Texans made the playoffs, Osweiler completed just 56 percent of his passes, had 15 touchdowns to 16 interceptions and a QB rating of 72 percent.
That led to his being seen as a throw-in with a deal that gave the Browns a second-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
So on Wednesday, he was asked about those struggles. At first, he declined to talk about his relationship with the Texans. Then cleveland.com columnist Doug Lesmerises asked Osweiler about his 2016 performance. Here's how Lesmierises described the exchange on a story posted Wednesday:
When I asked Osweiler if he was good enough to be a starter in this league, regardless of the system, he said "absolutely."
Twice.
So ... why?
As Osweiler stood off to the side of the Browns practice fields in Berea after the second day of OTAs, in a drizzle and surrounded by Cleveland reporters, that's what mattered.
Why do you think you are good enough, when every bit of proof from your big chance last season would say otherwise?
"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," Osweiler said.
That's the quote that went wild Tuesday, picked up and pasted across the web before we had even finished interviews with the rest of the players made available, including two other quarterbacks. And in the moment, you can't let it stand. It's not reality. The film, at last year, would tell you the opposite.
"Some people would say the proof's not in the film, from last year," I said.
"That's OK," Osweiler said, nodding.
What did you think about how Osweiler handled questions about last season? Was he right to insinuate that he played better than people think? Did you want him to answer those questions differently?
Check out the poll below and let us know what you think. You can explain your answer in the comment section.
So far over 70% of those who have voted could care less.
I did care, but it's getting so overblown now that I'm growing numb...
I think you can count me among the ones that could care less. I care about what he is going to do for the Browns, not what he did for any other team. It sounds like this reporter just wanted to rag on him. Basically B.O.s response, as I see it was: think what you want...I am here to compete for the starting job for the Browns.
And that is all we need to know about...or care about.
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Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list, but maybe our "system" is a better fit... so who knows?
So...
- What's the mood in Denver given their continuing QB choice of Siemian and Lynch going into 2017?
- What's Kelly's (my official, 2017 "Darkhorse") timeline to see the practice field and the fan hopes for him?
I just don't like the whole "experience wise" thing. There is a big difference in the time spent practicing in college vs pros. Yeah I wouldn't expect a third or fourth year guy that rode the bench his whole career to come in and light it up his first couple games, but after a handful you should know what you have (ie Cousins, although that's a little bit of a mixed bag too). He might not have the chemistry and quite have the internal clock of game-speed down, but he should know the plays, make the correct reads and all the other stuff. 1-2 year guys don't necessarily have that so they get a little longer leash. Maybe Brees or Warner as far as late bloomers, but different situations there. Most other late bloomers that I can think of were more or less one year wonders.<p>
Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list, but maybe our "system" is a better fit... so who knows?
So...
- What's the mood in Denver given their continuing QB choice of Siemian and Lynch going into 2017?
- What's Kelly's (my official, 2017 "Darkhorse") timeline to see the practice field and the fan hopes for him?
The feeling in Denver is a bit odd. I am in the camp of not caring who wins as long as it goes to the better player and not who might have the best long term potential. I feel like there are more in favor of Siemian than Lynch, but the majority just want the best player to win. There is also quite a few rumors about Lynch's work ethic so that has gotten a few more people to jump to camp Siemian. To me neither player is that polarizing so I don't know why there are really any "camps". Also we won a Superbowl pretty recently with atrocious qb play, so we don't quite put the same emphasis on it that a lot of fan bases do. Although we do realize that that isn't a recipe for success and are hoping to get some decent production.
Not sure about Kelly. All the focus has been on Lynch vs Siemian so not a lot has been reported. I can see him getting IR'd this year, figuring out which of the other two will be our starter going forward and then throw Kelly in the race against this year's winner next year. I really liked the pick, and who knows he could be our Russell Wilson and the other two will be our Matt Flynn. I would be more than happy with that too.
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Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list, but maybe our "system" is a better fit... so who knows?
So...
- What's the mood in Denver given their continuing QB choice of Siemian and Lynch going into 2017?
- What's Kelly's (my official, 2017 "Darkhorse") timeline to see the practice field and the fan hopes for him?
Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list....
How many do you need?.....cause there are a lot of em.....
Romo, Young, Kreig, Montana, Fouts, Sipe, Hasselbeck, Garcia, Cousins, Stafford, Bradshaw, Gannon, Jaworski, Smith, Johnson, Thiesman, and on and on and on.....
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Good take...
Experience-wise, however, he is a "3rd-year guy". So the question is how many 3rd year guys who have only "flashed" to the point in their careers suddenly "get it"? Without checking I'm going to guess that's a pretty short list....
How many do you need?.....cause there are a lot of em.....
Romo, Young, Kreig, Montana, Fouts, Sipe, Hasselbeck, Garcia, Cousins, Stafford, Bradshaw, Gannon, Jaworski, Smith, Johnson, Thiesman, and on and on and on.....
How many do you need?.....cause there are a lot of em.....
Romo, Young, Kreig, Montana, Fouts, Sipe, Hasselbeck, Garcia, Cousins, Stafford, Bradshaw, Gannon, Jaworski, Smith, Johnson, Thiesman, and on and on and on.....
Most of those guys weren't "experience-wise" 3rd year guys when they flashed, but that is my point too. Usually when guys that have sat the bench for 2-3 years come in and they have what it takes to make it in the league they flash pretty early and often. Can't think of too many guys that sat the bench for 3 years and then spent another 2 years getting their feet wet and then flashed.
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Lots of em.....here's more....Matt Schaub found his game in year 6, Gannon found his in year 11, Jaworski = year 6, Alex Smith 8 years, Joe Thiesman 8 years, Brad Johnson 6 years, Steve Young 8 years.....plenty of examples of guys who sat...bounced around....had the 3 year experience tjingy....only did ok(or worse)....then, suddenly, became quality NFL QB's......
and, with only 2 exceptions, all these guys were on their second or third teams before the light came on....
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they'll be a QB that was picked someowhere in this year's draft that will turn out to be good freshman year in NFL and we'll all be like '##!!%##&@%"!!!!!
i'm guessing if this year's team shows no improvement ( i mean 5 win season) 2018 will be the last of the analytics in cleveland even if they pull a cou in the draft next year.
tiresome and myopic with no advancement equal no dollars in jimmah's pockets = see ya!
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Lots of em.....here's more....Matt Schaub found his game in year 6, Gannon found his in year 11, Jaworski = year 6, Alex Smith 8 years, Joe Thiesman 8 years, Brad Johnson 6 years, Steve Young 8 years.....plenty of examples of guys who sat...bounced around....had the 3 year experience tjingy....only did ok(or worse)....then, suddenly, became quality NFL QB's......
and, with only 2 exceptions, all these guys were on their second or third teams before the light came on....
Lots of em.....here's more....Matt Schaub found his game in year 6, Gannon found his in year 11, Jaworski = year 6, Alex Smith 8 years, Joe Thiesman 8 years, Brad Johnson 6 years, Steve Young 8 years.....plenty of examples of guys who sat...bounced around....had the 3 year experience tjingy....only did ok(or worse)....then, suddenly, became quality NFL QB's......
and, with only 2 exceptions, all these guys were on their second or third teams before the light came on....
Schaub was behind Vick in Atlanta and was a preseason all-star so the Texans traded for him IIRC. Smith I am not sure when he has flashed, he is decent. He has been on a slow trajectory of crap->mediocre->slightly above average but your team is still looking to replace you. Young I suppose but he was on a horrible team prior to going to the 49ers. Johnson was what I meant by guys that were one year wonders although he had a couple of good seasons.
I am not rooting against Brock (I did that last year). Hope he finds his groove and does well for you guys. I just have never seen the IT factor from him other than a couple plays here and there.
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Lots of em.....here's more....Matt Schaub found his game in year 6, Gannon found his in year 11, Jaworski = year 6, Alex Smith 8 years, Joe Thiesman 8 years, Brad Johnson 6 years, Steve Young 8 years.....plenty of examples of guys who sat...bounced around....had the 3 year experience tjingy....only did ok(or worse)....then, suddenly, became quality NFL QB's......
and, with only 2 exceptions, all these guys were on their second or third teams before the light came on....
Schaub was behind Vick in Atlanta and was a preseason all-star so the Texans traded for him IIRC. Smith I am not sure when he has flashed, he is decent. He has been on a slow trajectory of crap->mediocre->slightly above average but your team is still looking to replace you. Young I suppose but he was on a horrible team prior to going to the 49ers. Johnson was what I meant by guys that were one year wonders although he had a couple of good seasons.
I am not rooting against Brock (I did that last year). Hope he finds his groove and does well for you guys. I just have never seen the IT factor from him other than a couple plays here and there.
I am not rooting against Brock (I did that last year). Hope he finds his groove and does well for you guys. I just have never seen the IT factor from him other than a couple plays here and there.
Thats cool....I haven't seen it either.....hence, the list of successful QB's who didnt show early....the list is not a prediction, just history
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@ghoolie said:
THESE COCKSUCKERS ARE GONNA WIN THE LOMBARDI.
Who said anything about winning the Lombardi, Ghoolie? I did say he would play better, but didn't indicate how many games he would win. We need to see improvement for this team going forward.
If we don't need to draft a QB next year, then we can use the next picks on needs areas of need: WR, CB, LB, and perhaps a QB later in the draft. You can never have too many.
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Lots of em.....here's more....Matt Schaub found his game in year 6, Gannon found his in year 11, Jaworski = year 6, Alex Smith 8 years, Joe Thiesman 8 years, Brad Johnson 6 years, Steve Young 8 years.....plenty of examples of guys who sat...bounced around....had the 3 year experience tjingy....only did ok(or worse)....then, suddenly, became quality NFL QB's......
and, with only 2 exceptions, all these guys were on their second or third teams before the light came on....
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Terry Pluto has published his usual, level-headed take... the man is a breath of fresh air with his Browns coverage.
Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' Brock Osweiler, impressions from OTAs -- Terry Pluto (photos)
Posted on May 27, 2017 at 7:42 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is the proof in the film?
That question lingered after Brock Osweiler gave his first press conference as a member of the Cleveland Browns.
I was there and was impressed with how the former Houston quarterback handled the questions. It's a tough spot. He is viewed as a throw-in as part of a deal that brought a 2018 second-round pick to the Browns.
Cleveland.com's Doug Lesmerises has taken some heat for pressing Osweiler about why he "absolutely" believes he can be a starting quarterback.
"I think the proof is in the film for the past two years," he said.
As Lesmerises correctly said, others doubt that. It's a fair point.
Osweiler simply replied, "It's OK."
But the big question about Osweiler being a starter and the film is this: Which film?
The film for 2016, when he led the NFL with 16 interceptions and had all kinds of problems adapting to Bill O'Brien's offense in Houston? He was a mess for much of the season. Houston fans were glad to see him go.
Or how about the film from 2015, when he played eight games for Denver? He threw 10 TD passes compared to six interceptions. He completed 62 percent of his throws. He started seven of those games and had a 5-2 record.
What film?
The film in 2016 led most of the NFL to write him off at the age of 26.
The film in 2015 not only inspired Houston to give him a four-year, $72 million deal ($36 million guaranteed), but other teams wanted him.
The film in 2015, along with having him on the team, inspired Denver general manager John Elway to offer Osweiler a three-year, $45 million contract ($20 million guaranteed) for three years.
The film and what happened on the field in 2015 tells Osweiler he can start for some teams. He surely looks at the Browns and believes he can beat out Cody Kessler and rookie DeShone Kizer.
He didn't say that exactly. He did say no one comes to training camp with the goal of being a backup.
If the only existing film on Osweiler came from 2016, I'd agree with his critics. He's probably a lost cause. But at the end of the 2015 season, Osweiler was considered a good pro prospect who'd had some success in Denver's offense.
A LITTLE HISTORY
O'Brien has been the head coach in Houston for three seasons.
He has had eight different starting quarterbacks ... that's right, eight!
Injuries dictated some of the switches. But it's also clear O'Brien can't find a quarterback. Nor has he been able to develop one.
Here's his Big Eight: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden, Case Keenum, Ryan Mallet, T.J. Yates, Tom Savage and Osweiler.
In three years, he's had three opening day starters: Fitzpatrick (2014), Hoyer (2015) and Osweiler (2016). He pulled Hoyer at the end of three quarters in the 2015 opener.
Rookie Deshaun Watson will probably be the fourth starter in four years.
Osweiler clashed with O'Brien.
While Houston has won a lot more games than the Browns in the last three years, the quarterback situation has been just as chaotic. Very few Houston quarterbacks under O'Brien produced good film.
My view is let's see what Osweiler can do.
Having Kessler open practices as a starter makes sense. He knows the system. Coach Hue Jackson said, "They have to take it from Cody."
But Osweiler deserves the chance to see if he can grab the job, or at least be a very viable backup. It was only a year ago several NFL teams (including Elway in Denver) thought he was much more than that.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/05/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_120.html
I'm going to post other sections of the article in the appropriate threads.
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@ghoolie said:
The future's so bright I gotta wear night vision goggles.
Like in "Silence of the Lambs?"
I have my doubts about Osweiler too, but he's here so the hope is that he's able to shake off his Houston experience. IF he can do that, he should win the job. IF not, it's Kessler until Kizer gets a clue.
I'm not an expert on the Texans situation, but Osweiler reminded me of Weeden...a big arm who struggles to throw a 5 yard touch screen pass.
Just start winning, especially at home, starting September 10th. Whomever is under center will have my support.
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I tend to think if Brock was the answer Houston would have held on to him for themselves instead of parting company. I got to watch a couple of Notre Dame games this past year and I thought Kizer looked really good at times particularly when ND played Clemson and he led ND back from a 21- 3 deficit in the second half and they almost pulled it off against Clemson finally losing 24-22. Time will tell if Kizer can develop into an NFL quarterback but he has the potential for sure.
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I don't think he will be any worse than suckler or suckzer.
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