Corey Coleman hurt again (don't draft 185 pound WRs in the 1st round)
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This is exactly why you don't take tiny WRs in Round 1.
Even though Coleman still has a lot to prove, this argument is idiotic to say the least.
Was the giants selection of Odell Beckham a bad pick? Would it have been a wasted pick to draft Antonio Brown in the first round? Hell, the patriots just traded a first round pick for Brandin Cooks, who is an inch shorter than Coleman. Are the defending Super Bowl champs idiots?
Even though Coleman still has a lot to prove, this argument is idiotic to say the least.
Was the giants selection of Odell Beckham a bad pick? Would it have been a wasted pick to draft Antonio Brown in the first round? Hell, the patriots just traded a first round pick for Brandin Cooks, who is an inch shorter than Coleman. Are the defending Super Bowl champs idiots?
no.
but we're talking browns FO so........
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Of the 'good' receivers at the top of his draft class, he produced the most in his rookie season. (say's a lot for the other WR's...but they were hurt longer than him)
I wanted Laquan Treadwell (wound up being a Viking).
One of my best friends (a Vikings fan) wanted Coleman.
...go figure.
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It's June 1st. Means not a thing. If he is not playing on September 10th, please resume your rant.
Zombo
Zombo said:
It's June 1st. Means not a thing. If he is not playing on September 10th, please resume your rant.
Zombo
Yeah, all the years Corey Coleman hasn't been able to suit up for games here has clobbered us. Oh wait, he's only missed 6 games in his rookie season with a broken hand? What a gypsy!
Is this also the same Corey Coleman that organized some off-season work with our WRs and Kessler down in Texas? What a bastard!
He was a Biletnikoff Award winner because he scored 20 TDs in 1 season, which doesn't happen if he's injured or lazy. That said, he was inexperienced with flaws in 2016 like a lot of rookies.
Is Beckham and Evans really the rule of ease for rookie WRs or the exception to it? These 2 guys have QBs that were previously drafted 1st overall throwing them passes. In comparison, Coleman had a variety of cup of coffee QBs throwing him passes behind suspect pass pro here in 2016. For all the love and adoration our former Buckeye T.Pryor gets - he only scored 4 TDs in 2016 (only 1 more than Coleman despite 5 or 6 more starts with the catch radius of a 6'5" target that was once a basketball star able to tap such intangibles). Do we really have enough info to go straight from once upon a time to stick a fork in him? Glad to see even those legitimately concerned about Coleman's body catching or prior style of offense - are wanting to see him get more of a chance than part of a rookie season.
WRs develop and emerge at different rates so the quality of QB as well as access to the same QB every start can make a huge difference in chemistry and reliability of pitch and catch tandems. If I had to guess, Coleman had about 4 different starting QBs in his 10 starts and more than 1 of those QBs didn't finish their starts. Consequently, other symptoms like Barnidge dropping from 9 TD receptions to just 2 and about 78 rec to 55; and a WR (Pryor) that had the ability to exceed 1000 yards could only score a TD once every 4 games. Hopefully the FA attempts to improve our pass pro in 2017 will keep our passer(s) healthy enough for more sustained chemistry out there. We shall see...
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their epic catches have been from terrible throws. like i said before his draft class evans is a guy like graham....new prototypical who doesn't even have to leap to pull down a pass 5 yards over his head on the sidelines or corner of end zone. fuck beckham he's a fag with speed. choker and bitch.
love his hair tho.............
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I think we have to be honest and admit that this guy has never played a full season.....and has an extended history of soft tissue injuries.....
Freshman year....redshirted due to a chronic hamstring issue....
Sophomore year....missed camp & first 3 games with?....a hamstring issue...(which plagued him through out the season, causing him to miss several starts)
Junior year....suffered a groin injury, causing him to vanish the last month of the season and sit out their bowl game.....followed by off season sports hernia surgery(pre-draft)....
Nfl rookie season.....missed training camp and 2 preseason games due to hamstring.....missed 6 more games with a broken hand...
Nfl sophomore season.....mid torso injury(took what?...2 days?)....and, now, another hamstring which they are saying will keep him unable to workout until training camp(6 weeks)......
Soooooooooooooo.....dude definitely has some issues....and if he plays all 16 games this year, it will be his first full season ever.....
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can only expect these FO 'diamond in the rough' picks for so long. a lot of us clammored for mike evans in that draft yet we pick up dudes from pitt or central bumfuck state expecting them to be first year starters in the NFL.
BWAHAHAHA!!!
can only expect these FO 'diamond in the rough' picks for so long. a lot of us clammored for mike evans in that draft yet we pick up dudes from pitt or central bumfuck state expecting them to be first year starters in the NFL.
BWAHAHAHA!!!
Careful, people might start calling you Ghoolie Jr for not sucking off Huey Jackass and annointing this pussy assed bitch Corey Colecunt as the savior at WR.
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Three years at Baylor, two as a starter and he missed 2 games...
Little early to be writing him off as a Pro...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think we have to be honest and admit that this guy has never played a full season.....and has an extended history of soft tissue injuries.....
Freshman year....redshirted due to a chronic hamstring issue....
Sophomore year....missed camp & first 3 games with?....a hamstring issue...(which plagued him through out the season, causing him to miss several starts)
Junior year....suffered a groin injury, causing him to vanish the last month of the season and sit out their bowl game.....followed by off season sports hernia surgery(pre-draft)....
Nfl rookie season.....missed training camp and 2 preseason games due to hamstring.....missed 6 more games with a broken hand...
Nfl sophomore season.....mid torso injury(took what?...2 days?)....and, now, another hamstring which they are saying will keep him unable to workout until training camp(6 weeks)......
Soooooooooooooo.....dude definitely has some issues....and if he plays all 16 games this year, it will be his first full season ever.....
Junior year....suffered a groin injury, causing him to vanish the last month of the season and sit out their bowl game.....
While his numbers took a hit - I wouldn't chalk all of the drop off to the injury. The other major part of this is starting QB Seth Russell only played in their first 7 games when they went 7-0 with an average of 61 points per game (via the following): 56, 66, 70, 63, 66, 62, 45...
The rest of the year they only averaged 33 points per game while counting on their 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They lost 3 of their last 6 games so that didn't just impact the 2015 Biletnikoff Award Winner's numbers.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Three years at Baylor, two as a starter and he missed 2 games...
Little early to be writing him off as a Pro...
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Junior year....suffered a groin injury, causing him to vanish the last month of the season and sit out their bowl game.....
While his numbers took a hit - I wouldn't chalk all of the drop off to the injury. The other major part of this is starting QB Seth Russell only played in their first 7 games when they went 7-0 with an average of 61 points per game (via the following): 56, 66, 70, 63, 66, 62, 45...
The rest of the year they only averaged 33 points per game while counting on their 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They lost 3 of their last 6 games so that didn't just impact the 2015 Biletnikoff Award Winner's numbers.
While his numbers took a hit - I wouldn't chalk all of the drop off to the injury. The other major part of this is starting QB Seth Russell only played in their first 7 games when they went 7-0 with an average of 61 points per game (via the following): 56, 66, 70, 63, 66, 62, 45...
The rest of the year they only averaged 33 points per game while counting on their 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They lost 3 of their last 6 games so that didn't just impact the 2015 Biletnikoff Award Winner's numbers.
Perhaps.....Im not really hung up on his numbers.....they have always been pretty good.....it's the injuries and dropsies that have bothered me the most....
And they both happen too often.....
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While his numbers took a hit - I wouldn't chalk all of the drop off to the injury. The other major part of this is starting QB Seth Russell only played in their first 7 games when they went 7-0 with an average of 61 points per game (via the following): 56, 66, 70, 63, 66, 62, 45...
The rest of the year they only averaged 33 points per game while counting on their 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They lost 3 of their last 6 games so that didn't just impact the 2015 Biletnikoff Award Winner's numbers.
Perhaps.....Im not really hung up on his numbers.....they have always been pretty good.....it's the injuries and dropsies that have bothered me the most....
And they both happen too often.....
Perhaps.....Im not really hung up on his numbers.....they have always been pretty good.....it's the injuries and dropsies that have bothered me the most....
And they both happen too often.....
I understand where you are coming from for the most part but I think we should all give him more of a chance that what last year's QB situation gave all our inexperienced rookie WRs. Even though Pryor was a first year starter at WR - he wasn't brand new to Hue's pass offense as a former QB of his.
The WR I'm most concerned about in terms of us wasting too much time on is Ricardo Louis. I don't think people can coach out the dropsies which we witnessed back when we had a good offensive coach like Terry Robiskie here. Meanwhile, I think Payton's need for PEDs last year sucker punched in an awareness he may be in over his head with getting open/separation. Higgins is a guy with a lot of upside IMO especially if he could put the 10-15 lbs on to that rookie frame I said he needed to. Last I saw, he recently weighed in at 198 lbs - which tells me he accomplished that.
I've only seen a 10 game body of work from Coleman. I'm guessing during a lot of that he was lost via inexperience. Meanwhile while we changed QBs so often his chances of being on the same page with any of them seemed like wishful thinking at best. That said, he did organize some offseason work with Kess and his WR peers to try to improve this. WR is a tough position to learn no matter how easy guys like Evans and Beckham have made it look catching passes from 1st overall draft picks at QB.
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Perhaps.....Im not really hung up on his numbers.....they have always been pretty good.....it's the injuries and dropsies that have bothered me the most....
And they both happen too often.....
I understand where you are coming from for the most part but I think we should all give him more of a chance that what last year's QB situation gave all our inexperienced rookie WRs. Even though Pryor was a first year starter at WR - he wasn't brand new to Hue's pass offense as a former QB of his.
The WR I'm most concerned about in terms of us wasting too much time on is Ricardo Louis. I don't think people can coach out the dropsies which we witnessed back when we had a good offensive coach like Terry Robiskie here. Meanwhile, I think Payton's need for PEDs last year sucker punched in an awareness he may be in over his head with getting open/separation. Higgins is a guy with a lot of upside IMO especially if he could put the 10-15 lbs on to that rookie frame I said he needed to. Last I saw, he recently weighed in at 198 lbs - which tells me he accomplished that.
I've only seen a 10 game body of work from Coleman. I'm guessing during a lot of that he was lost via inexperience. Meanwhile while we changed QBs so often his chances of being on the same page with any of them seemed like wishful thinking at best. That said, he did organize some offseason work with Kess and his WR peers to try to improve this. WR is a tough position to learn no matter how easy guys like Evans and Beckham have made it look catching passes from 1st overall draft picks at QB.
I understand where you are coming from for the most part but I think we should all give him more of a chance that what last year's QB situation gave all our inexperienced rookie WRs. Even though Pryor was a first year starter at WR - he wasn't brand new to Hue's pass offense as a former QB of his.
The WR I'm most concerned about in terms of us wasting too much time on is Ricardo Louis. I don't think people can coach out the dropsies
Im giving Coleman a chance.....certainly not calling him a bust or anything.....just going by "what I see so far".....and that is a continuation of the knocks we heard when he was first picked.....those knocks were that he didnt have the body to succeed in the NFL, has a history of injury and has a low catch percentage(IE drops).....
And.....so far....that seems to be the case.....I HOPE it changes.....
Not a fan of Louis either....but he did have a higher catch percentage than Coleman.....from the same terrible QB's....though, lets agree that Kessler has been praised for his high percentage passes and accuracy....
Here are last years catch rates for our WR's.....all catching from the same guys.....best to worst...
Hawkins....67%
Pryor.........55%
Higgins.....50%
Louis........50%
Payton......50%
Coleman...42%
So....reality is that Coleman had the lowest rate on the team....by a significant amount...(even Greg Little had better numbers...remember him?)
Another reality......we let the top 2 go.....and now are banking on the lowest one to be "our top guy"......
Another factoid.....terrible as our QB's are supposed to be, when your QB has a 66% completion rate and your star receiver has a 42% catch rate, there is an issue there.....
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I'm definitely NOT giving up on the guy, as it's his second year and sometimes it takes players a little while to understand how to maintain their bodies and get into the flow of being a professional. That being said, what we're seeing out of Coleman is certainly terrifying from a fan perspective. Our record of first round picks aside, here's a guy who just can't stay healthy for a variety of reasons. Who breaks their hand during practice? I've hardly ever seen that before. You want to know who he instantly reminds me of? Sammy Watkins. I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, probably even on this chat, but that's who I see when I look at him. I see a guy who COULD really help a football team, but he's never healthy. A strong, quick guy who can be difficult to cover, but just can't stay on the damn field.
Anyone that's ever come down wrong on top of a football knows exactly how bad that hurts. If he cracked a rib or did damage to any internal organ, it's going to hurt for a LONG time. The only thing GOOD about this is perhaps it gives his hamstring a chance to completely heal so he's ready for training camp. It does set him back because he needs all the time he can get working with his QB's and developing some kind of rapport. Coleman only played ten games last year, but he didn't really have tremendous QB play to say the least. Yes, there were some games in which Coleman struggled to break open, sometimes against poor CB's, but I certainly remember times when Coleman slipped open deep and the QB either didn't see him, or just badly missed the throw. I would love to know what Coleman is capable of when working with a consistent QB, but for him to do THAT, he's going to have to figure out a way to remain on the field.
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I'm definitely NOT giving up on the guy, as it's his second year and sometimes it takes players a little while to understand how to maintain their bodies and get into the flow of being a professional. That being said, what we're seeing out of Coleman is certainly terrifying from a fan perspective. Our record of first round picks aside, here's a guy who just can't stay healthy for a variety of reasons. Who breaks their hand during practice? I've hardly ever seen that before. You want to know who he instantly reminds me of? Sammy Watkins. I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, probably even on this chat, but that's who I see when I look at him. I see a guy who COULD really help a football team, but he's never healthy. A strong, quick guy who can be difficult to cover, but just can't stay on the damn field.
Anyone that's ever come down wrong on top of a football knows exactly how bad that hurts. If he cracked a rib or did damage to any internal organ, it's going to hurt for a LONG time. The only thing GOOD about this is perhaps it gives his hamstring a chance to completely heal so he's ready for training camp. It does set him back because he needs all the time he can get working with his QB's and developing some kind of rapport. Coleman only played ten games last year, but he didn't really have tremendous QB play to say the least. Yes, there were some games in which Coleman struggled to break open, sometimes against poor CB's, but I certainly remember times when Coleman slipped open deep and the QB either didn't see him, or just badly missed the throw. I would love to know what Coleman is capable of when working with a consistent QB, but for him to do THAT, he's going to have to figure out a way to remain on the field.
I'm definitely NOT giving up on the guy, as it's his second year and sometimes it takes players a little while to understand how to maintain their bodies and get into the flow of being a professional. That being said, what we're seeing out of Coleman is certainly terrifying from a fan perspective. Our record of first round picks aside, here's a guy who just can't stay healthy for a variety of reasons. Who breaks their hand during practice? I've hardly ever seen that before. You want to know who he instantly reminds me of? Sammy Watkins. I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, probably even on this chat, but that's who I see when I look at him. I see a guy who COULD really help a football team, but he's never healthy. A strong, quick guy who can be difficult to cover, but just can't stay on the damn field.
Anyone that's ever come down wrong on top of a football knows exactly how bad that hurts. If he cracked a rib or did damage to any internal organ, it's going to hurt for a LONG time. The only thing GOOD about this is perhaps it gives his hamstring a chance to completely heal so he's ready for training camp. It does set him back because he needs all the time he can get working with his QB's and developing some kind of rapport. Coleman only played ten games last year, but he didn't really have tremendous QB play to say the least. Yes, there were some games in which Coleman struggled to break open, sometimes against poor CB's, but I certainly remember times when Coleman slipped open deep and the QB either didn't see him, or just badly missed the throw. I would love to know what Coleman is capable of when working with a consistent QB, but for him to do THAT, he's going to have to figure out a way to remain on the field.
Well said....
The Browns(Hue) said that, although they wont disclose the injury, he did not break a rib(or bone).....
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For Coleman to also make an impact, I believe Kenny Britt will play a huge role. We need Britt to play well enough to command the opposition's #1 CB every game, so that Coleman can be matched up on statistically lesser talent. Any advantage we can get that will aid Coleman in acquiring separation and making catches is huge, and that includes Britt playing well AND our ability to run the ball for four quarters. We get down early and often again, and teams are going to sit on the pass and make our lives difficult. It also completely nixes the play-action offense, which is a favorite of Hue. A defense isn't going to bite on a run fake if their team is up 17 points in the fourth quarter.
Coleman really needs a good offseason, starting with training camp in 7 weeks. He needs to be the guy we read about in practice who is tearing it up again. Remember last year when he was the best player on offense and then got hurt after our team scrimmage? That's what we need again, minus the getting hurt part. He needs to be out there with our first team offense, and that's probably why Hue is keeping him out right now. We need him good to go for camp. And yes, OTA's and mandatory minicamp are important, but training camp is where you REALLY get into things.
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I understand where you are coming from for the most part but I think we should all give him more of a chance that what last year's QB situation gave all our inexperienced rookie WRs. Even though Pryor was a first year starter at WR - he wasn't brand new to Hue's pass offense as a former QB of his.
The WR I'm most concerned about in terms of us wasting too much time on is Ricardo Louis. I don't think people can coach out the dropsies
Im giving Coleman a chance.....certainly not calling him a bust or anything.....just going by "what I see so far".....and that is a continuation of the knocks we heard when he was first picked.....those knocks were that he didnt have the body to succeed in the NFL, has a history of injury and has a low catch percentage(IE drops).....
And.....so far....that seems to be the case.....I HOPE it changes.....
Not a fan of Louis either....but he did have a higher catch percentage than Coleman.....from the same terrible QB's....though, lets agree that Kessler has been praised for his high percentage passes and accuracy....
Here are last years catch rates for our WR's.....all catching from the same guys.....best to worst...
Hawkins....67%
Pryor.........55%
Higgins.....50%
Louis........50%
Payton......50%
Coleman...42%
So....reality is that Coleman had the lowest rate on the team....by a significant amount...(even Greg Little had better numbers...remember him?)
Another reality......we let the top 2 go.....and now are banking on the lowest one to be "our top guy"......
Another factoid.....terrible as our QB's are supposed to be, when your QB has a 66% completion rate and your star receiver has a 42% catch rate, there is an issue there.....
Im giving Coleman a chance.....certainly not calling him a bust or anything.....just going by "what I see so far".....and that is a continuation of the knocks we heard when he was first picked.....those knocks were that he didnt have the body to succeed in the NFL, has a history of injury and has a low catch percentage(IE drops).....
And.....so far....that seems to be the case.....I HOPE it changes.....
Not a fan of Louis either....but he did have a higher catch percentage than Coleman.....from the same terrible QB's....though, lets agree that Kessler has been praised for his high percentage passes and accuracy....
Here are last years catch rates for our WR's.....all catching from the same guys.....best to worst...
Hawkins....67%
Pryor.........55%
Higgins.....50%
Louis........50%
Payton......50%
Coleman...42%
So....reality is that Coleman had the lowest rate on the team....by a significant amount...(even Greg Little had better numbers...remember him?)
Another reality......we let the top 2 go.....and now are banking on the lowest one to be "our top guy"......
Another factoid.....terrible as our QB's are supposed to be, when your QB has a 66% completion rate and your star receiver has a 42% catch rate, there is an issue there.....
so,terrible as our QB's are supposed to be, when your QB has a 66% completion rate and your star receiver has a 42% catch rate, there is an issue there.....
I'm glad you're giving him a chance Mud. There's a lot of guys that aren't based on last year's dumpster fire. Like I already told you - I understood where you were coming from.
I don't know how much I trust some of the catch rates when a guy could beat someone over the middle and the pass is late/behind him so he only barely touches it instead of catching it (sometimes this prevents an INT which gets the WR only credited for the drop). While the rookies only varied by 8% in catch rate, which of our rookie WRs missed 6 weeks due to a broken hand? The last game Coleman played before that injury he had 5 receptions for 104 yards and 2 TDs against Miami (a playoff caliber opponent) at least flashing some kind of big game ability I didn't see from any of the other rookie WRs. That injury pretty much China walled the first sign of momentum and chemistry he had with a QB.
3 years ago on the OBR - someone debated that while Wes Welker and TO were among the league leaders in receptions of a specified year, they showed a stat revealing both guys were also among the league leaders in drops. You brought up the Greg Little who led us in receptions but he also led us in drops the same year. If you had to guess, what do you think most of our fans remembered Greg Little most for? The 1 year he led us in receptions or how many passes he dropped throughout his time in Cleveland? There never was a next team he started for right?
I don't advise anyone making too many conclusions about him from the 2016 data.
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What concerns me also with Coleman, other than the injuries, is the fact I don't remember him being prolific with yards after the catch (YAC) last year. Now I admit that I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I really can't remember Coleman catching a pass and running with it, or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. I'm sure it happened a few times, but do YOU guys remember seeing it? That was one of the things I was most excited about regarding Coleman, and I really thought he'd be able to catch a few short passes and turning some of them into medium or even occasional large gains, but I don't remember seeing that AT ALL. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but the "eye test" told me Coleman wasn't able to take a pass and turn it into something special. I don't expect it EVERY time he touches the ball, but I certainly expected more from him in terms of scaring the opposition with his ability to make people miss and take the ball down the field.
I remember some bad drops last year, but I'm sure most teams have those, and I'm pretty sure virtually every rookie has them too. The worst drop I remember was Andrew Hawkins dropping a touchdown pass from Kessler in the end zone. I don't remember the score, but Cody threw a gorgeous ball that only Hawkins could get to, and it squirted out. Fail.
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What concerns me also with Coleman, other than the injuries, is the fact I don't remember him being prolific with yards after the catch (YAC) last year. Now I admit that I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I really can't remember Coleman catching a pass and running with it, or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. I'm sure it happened a few times, but do YOU guys remember seeing it? That was one of the things I was most excited about regarding Coleman, and I really thought he'd be able to catch a few short passes and turning some of them into medium or even occasional large gains, but I don't remember seeing that AT ALL. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but the "eye test" told me Coleman wasn't able to take a pass and turn it into something special. I don't expect it EVERY time he touches the ball, but I certainly expected more from him in terms of scaring the opposition with his ability to make people miss and take the ball down the field.
I remember some bad drops last year, but I'm sure most teams have those, and I'm pretty sure virtually every rookie has them too. The worst drop I remember was Andrew Hawkins dropping a touchdown pass from Kessler in the end zone. I don't remember the score, but Cody threw a gorgeous ball that only Hawkins could get to, and it squirted out. Fail.
or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. I'm sure it happened a few times, but do YOU guys remember seeing it? That was one of the things I was most excited about regarding Coleman, and I really thought he'd be able to catch a few short passes and turning some of them into medium or even occasional large gains, but I don't remember seeing that AT ALL. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
For Coleman to also make an impact, I believe Kenny Britt will play a huge role. We need Britt to play well enough to command the opposition's #1 CB every game, so that Coleman can be matched up on statistically lesser talent. Any advantage we can get that will aid Coleman in acquiring separation and making catches is huge, and that includes Britt playing well AND our ability to run the ball for four quarters. We get down early and often again, and teams are going to sit on the pass and make our lives difficult. It also completely nixes the play-action offense, which is a favorite of Hue. A defense isn't going to bite on a run fake if their team is up 17 points in the fourth quarter.
Coleman really needs a good offseason, starting with training camp in 7 weeks. He needs to be the guy we read about in practice who is tearing it up again. Remember last year when he was the best player on offense and then got hurt after our team scrimmage? That's what we need again, minus the getting hurt part. He needs to be out there with our first team offense, and that's probably why Hue is keeping him out right now. We need him good to go for camp. And yes, OTA's and mandatory minicamp are important, but training camp is where you REALLY get into things.
1) For Coleman to also make an impact, I believe Kenny Britt will play a huge role. We need Britt to play well enough to command the opposition's #1 CB every game, so that Coleman can be matched up on statistically lesser talent.
This would replicate the advantage Coleman had last year with Pryor being the #1.....
2) We need him good to go for camp. And yes, OTA's and mandatory minicamp are important, but training camp is where you REALLY get into things.
Agreed.....missing camp last year(along with 2 preseason games) had to hurt his development and team chemistry. In fact, last year, HUE said Coleman probably performed poorly DUE TO LACK OF PRACTICE CAUSED BY HIS INJURY(S)......SO, that would be a concern now, considering he has practiced 2 days and has 2 injuries already....correct?
1) I'm glad you're giving him a chance Mud. There's a lot of guys that aren't based on last year's dumpster fire. Like I already told you - I understood where you were coming from.
Thanks.....I think people think Im bashing him, when Im just pointing to obvious concerns that have swirled around him since day one.....and SO FAR have proven to be legit concerns.....
2) I don't know how much I trust some of the catch rates when a guy could beat someone over the middle and the pass is late/behind him so he only barely touches it instead of catching it (sometimes this prevents an INT which gets the WR only credited for the drop).
The catch rates are pretty legit Fluges....and should be basically equal opportunities for WR's on the same team...same system....same QB's....etc. So, when one guys stands out from the crowd(either way)....then it probably has more to do with that guy, than it does anyone else....also, I think if it's a terrible pass, then it's not a drop.....
3) While the rookies only varied by 8% in catch rate, which of our rookie WRs missed 6 weeks due to a broken hand? The last game Coleman played before that injury he had 5 receptions for 104 yards and 2 TDs against Miami (a playoff caliber opponent) at least flashing some kind of big game ability I didn't see from any of the other rookie WRs.
He's the only one who missed 6 games(plus training camp....plus 1/2 of preseason....and now OTA's).....which is a HUGE concern..... Would also point out that, last year, they said the break was minor and no one even realized it was broken immediately.....so, it's not as if it hampered his performance or he was in some type of great pain or anything.....and an 8% variance is pretty big, especially considering those other rookies(at the top) had pretty low catch rates themselves.....42% not only is at the bottom of our corps....it's bottom of the league type of stuff.....
I will add.....in the ENTIRE LEAGUE.....there are only 2 WR's, with at least 50 targets, who have a lower catch percentage....only 2....out of hundredssssssssss
4) 3 years ago on the OBR - someone debated that while Wes Welker and TO were among the league leaders in receptions of a specified year, they showed a stat revealing both guys were also among the league leaders in drops.
First......a first round pick should have higher expectations than a UDFA or 3rd rounder.....dont you think?
TO had a career catch rate of 58% and 60%, as a rookie......Welker has a 71% career catch rate.....completely different level from 42 %
5) You brought up the Greg Little who led us in receptions but he also led us in drops the same year. If you had to guess, what do you think most of our fans remembered Greg Little most for? The 1 year he led us in receptions or how many passes he dropped throughout his time in Cleveland? There never was a next team he started for right?
Exactly....you are making my point for me....thanks!......Little was bashed for his drops, yet he caught more than our guy.....we hated him, yet he led us in yards and catches as a rookie, which our guy didnt.......he was healthy and missed zero time in his 3 years here, while our guy has already had 4 separate injuries in just over 1 season.....and Little flamed out of the league, yet Im supposed to "expect" Coleman to be great?
6) I don't advise anyone making too many conclusions about him from the 2016 data.
Can only draw conclusions on what HAS happened.....not what WILL happen......and I conclude that not much good has happened yet....
What concerns me also with Coleman, other than the injuries, is the fact I don't remember him being prolific with yards after the catch (YAC) last year. Now I admit that I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I really can't remember Coleman catching a pass and running with it, or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Its a fact actually.....we had 2 players ranked inside the bottom 10 in the NFL.....Coleman(2.6 yac) and Pryor(2.5 yac).....With 2 of them there, it almost makes you wonder if it's Hues scheme(not getting them the ball in the right situations) over the players ability....if you think about it, those 2 guys didnt even average "one step" after the catch....so couldnt be much separation there, at all.....
I was, like you, waiting for that flash and burn that just never came.....
Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but the "eye test" told me Coleman wasn't able to take a pass and turn it into something special. I don't expect it EVERY time he touches the ball, but I certainly expected more from him in terms of scaring the opposition with his ability to make people miss and take the ball down the field.
There are some fast dudes in the NFL.....you wont juke too many guys outta their shoes, which is easier in college
I remember some bad drops last year, but I'm sure most teams have those, and I'm pretty sure virtually every rookie has them too.
Yep.....all WR's will have some drops.....I think the difference isnt so much "drops" as compared to how many balls will you "win".....the great ones go get the ball and routinely catch balls that are thrown to difficult locations....any WR's can catch perfectly thrown balls....it's the tough catches that raise the bar....
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or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. I'm sure it happened a few times, but do YOU guys remember seeing it? That was one of the things I was most excited about regarding Coleman, and I really thought he'd be able to catch a few short passes and turning some of them into medium or even occasional large gains, but I don't remember seeing that AT ALL. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..
Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..
Most everyone is faster on turf than grass.
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