Is Brock a keeper?
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I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
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I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
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I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
This season.. Brady & Glennon both 14M. A.Dalton 15.7M. Alex Smith 16.9M...Talk about a one year prove it season for Brock..Great point Mud,Brock wins the starting job or it's ghum bye ya (No doubt the Texans don't know the true value of a OJ-less Ex-White Bronco)
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I only see Brock staying if he wins the #1 position....and I think Kessler will hold that.....its a simple money ball decision....
You take the equal talent who is cheaper.....the value player.....and that is Kess......
I still see us trading him and absorbing part of the contract to make him more attractive...or cutting him.....
what I dont see is a $16m back up with Depo in the house......
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
Pretty much agree with Mud... only thing I'd add is that we will be building his trade value thru TC. Basically attempting a Philly-like move with Bradford.
I look forward to seeing folks here cry if we trade Brock even after he looks the part in preseason...
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
And? It's Jimmah's money, if he's cool with it, then so am I. Either way we're still ~$50mm under the cap.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Pretty much agree with Mud... only thing I'd add is that we will be building his trade value thru TC. Basically attempting a Philly-like move with Bradford.
I look forward to seeing folks here cry if we trade Brock even after he looks the part in preseason...
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
And? It's Jimmah's money, if he's cool with it, then so am I. Either way we're still ~$50mm under the cap.
Pretty much agree with Mud... only thing I'd add is that we will be building his trade value thru TC. Basically attempting a Philly-like move with Bradford.
I look forward to seeing folks here cry if we trade Brock even after he looks the part in preseason...
And? It's Jimmah's money, if he's cool with it, then so am I. Either way we're still ~$50mm under the cap.
I promise I wont cry....
Agree about the money too.....dont care one iota about how much of Jimmys money we spend.....until he runs out and then we are trapped with a bunch of over paid under performers.....which is a long way off(if ever)
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
By cutting him, we open the opportunity for another team to sign him.....and one will.....then we only pay the difference......
It will still be a lot.....but not the full tab......even a couple/few mil savings is a lot if your the one paying the tab....
I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....
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Pretty much agree with Mud... only thing I'd add is that we will be building his trade value thru TC. Basically attempting a Philly-like move with Bradford.
I look forward to seeing folks here cry if we trade Brock even after he looks the part in preseason...
And? It's Jimmah's money, if he's cool with it, then so am I. Either way we're still ~$50mm under the cap.
I promise I wont cry....
Agree about the money too.....dont care one iota about how much of Jimmys money we spend.....until he runs out and then we are trapped with a bunch of over paid under performers.....which is a long way off(if ever)
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
By cutting him, we open the opportunity for another team to sign him.....and one will.....then we only pay the difference......
It will still be a lot.....but not the full tab......even a couple/few mil savings is a lot if your the one paying the tab....
I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....
I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....If you mean by lights it up he proves to be a franchise QB, then why wouldn't you pay him? Why would we then get rid of the guy the Browns have wanted for decades?
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I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....
If you mean by lights it up he proves to be a franchise QB, then why wouldn't you pay him? Why would we then get rid of the guy the Browns have wanted for decades?
If you mean by lights it up he proves to be a franchise QB, then why wouldn't you pay him? Why would we then get rid of the guy the Browns have wanted for decades?
I dont know if he can establish that he is a "franchise QB" in just one season.....my take is something like that would take a couple/few years, at best, and the Browns would prefer to pay their developmental guys less and let the high dollar players go elsewhere to develop......I could be wrong tho
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Whatever terrible things anyone wants to say about our OL, Denver's is twice as bad. Their offense [both now and when ostrich played there] shows the results [or lack thereof] when you listen to people who think WR's are the solution to the exclusion of everything else.
I'm not sure what to read from ostrich's struggles there -- the most proficient blocks his OL provided were Ole' blocks -- Or in his "inability" to beat out Peyton.
But it's his struggles in Houston with a good-to-sometimes-great OL and a great WR that trouble me. And the corresponding lack of humility/self-reflection he shows in those interviews.
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If you mean by lights it up he proves to be a franchise QB, then why wouldn't you pay him? Why would we then get rid of the guy the Browns have wanted for decades?
I dont know if he can establish that he is a "franchise QB" in just one season.....my take is something like that would take a couple/few years, at best, and the Browns would prefer to pay their developmental guys less and let the high dollar players go elsewhere to develop......I could be wrong tho
I dont know if he can establish that he is a "franchise QB" in just one season...
Why not? DA did it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It wouldn't really surprise me at all to read that Brock performs well in drills. He's big and has a nice arm. He's going to look very solid slinging it around out there, I just know it. However, when the live bullets start flying, he'll retreat into his shell. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. Wouldn't it be great to turn this guy into a feel-good story for him and us? But to me, either a QB can process information, or he can't. I never got the impression watching Brock play that he could quickly scan the field and deliver a strike when needed. He never showed me the accuracy, and never showed the composure. This is why I'm still of the belief that Kessler will be the guy, at least to begin with. He can get the ball out quickly, and he is an accurate QB. He was also especially effective against the blitz and pressure.
Cody is far from a perfect candidate, I think we all know that, but I'd be very interested to see Cody play in games where the defense keeps it close and we're allowed to run the ball late in the game. Remember how he looked against Miami and Washington?
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Why not? DA did it.
umm, No he didn't. (I see the smirk smiley)
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near him. Ocho looked at him and held his arms out to his side as if to say, 'What, you can't hit me standing right here in front of ya?'. And I was like, Nope Ocho. He sucks. He cannot get the ball anywhere near ya unless you're 50 yards down field.
AAAAAAnyway....if the ostrich were to 'light it up' in TC, I don't see HOW the Browns could trade him away. Unless, of course, Kessler or Kizer lit it up even more. Our team NEEDS a QB in the worst way. And if he plays better than the other guys then we'd need our heads examined if we got rid of him.
But that's just my warped thinking.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Why not? DA did it.
umm, No he didn't. (I see the smirk smiley)
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near him. Ocho looked at him and held his arms out to his side as if to say, 'What, you can't hit me standing right here in front of ya?'. And I was like, Nope Ocho. He sucks. He cannot get the ball anywhere near ya unless you're 50 yards down field.
AAAAAAnyway....if the ostrich were to 'light it up' in TC, I don't see HOW the Browns could trade him away. Unless, of course, Kessler or Kizer lit it up even more. Our team NEEDS a QB in the worst way. And if he plays better than the other guys then we'd need our heads examined if we got rid of him.
But that's just my warped thinking.
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near him. Ocho looked at him and held his arms out to his side as if to say, 'What, you can't hit me standing right here in front of ya?'. And I was like, Nope Ocho. He sucks. He cannot get the ball anywhere near ya unless you're 50 yards down field.
AAAAAAnyway...
Can I buy this rant in the chowder-head audio version?..Priceless!!LMAO
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Why not? DA did it.
umm, No he didn't. (I see the smirk smiley)
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near him. Ocho looked at him and held his arms out to his side as if to say, 'What, you can't hit me standing right here in front of ya?'. And I was like, Nope Ocho. He sucks. He cannot get the ball anywhere near ya unless you're 50 yards down field.
AAAAAAnyway....if the ostrich were to 'light it up' in TC, I don't see HOW the Browns could trade him away. Unless, of course, Kessler or Kizer lit it up even more. Our team NEEDS a QB in the worst way. And if he plays better than the other guys then we'd need our heads examined if we got rid of him.
But that's just my warped thinking.
umm, No he didn't. (I see the smirk smiley)
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near himtha
Once again perhaps my sarcasm was not thick enough... my point was that DA's miracle year (coinciding with BE's) was enough to earn him a "franchise" contract.... not that he made good on/ built upon that performance.
I, also before my presence on this board, went a half step farther than you saying we needed to trade DA, and BE, that off-season.
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umm, No he didn't. (I see the smirk smiley)
All season long I was saying how much DA stunk. ('course I wasn't on this board at the time).
He would throw these lousy passes to receivers right the freak in front of him. Behind them, at their feet, you name it.....for two thirds of the game. Then he'd hit on some long throws, we'd sneak up on our opponent and win.
I'll never forget the pro bowl he played in. Ocho Cinco was wide open on a short pass and DA didn't throw it anywhere near himtha
Once again perhaps my sarcasm was not thick enough... my point was that DA's miracle year (coinciding with BE's) was enough to earn him a "franchise" contract.... not that he made good on/ built upon that performance.
I, also before my presence on this board, went a half step farther than you saying we needed to trade DA, and BE, that off-season.
Once again perhaps my sarcasm was not thick enough... my point was that DA's miracle year (coinciding with BE's) was enough to earn him a "franchise" contract.... not that he made good on/ built upon that performance.
I, also before my presence on this board, went a half step farther than you saying we needed to trade DA, and BE, that off-season.
I would venture to say that had we kept DA for the Long Haul and spent all those Hide draft choices on other key players we'd be way ahead of where we are.
WSS
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Pretty much agree with Mud... only thing I'd add is that we will be building his trade value thru TC. Basically attempting a Philly-like move with Bradford.
I look forward to seeing folks here cry if we trade Brock even after he looks the part in preseason...
And? It's Jimmah's money, if he's cool with it, then so am I. Either way we're still ~$50mm under the cap.
I promise I wont cry....
Agree about the money too.....dont care one iota about how much of Jimmys money we spend.....until he runs out and then we are trapped with a bunch of over paid under performers.....which is a long way off(if ever)
The problem though is that we are on the hook for that $16 no matter what we do with the guy. The trade to another team with taking some salary could be a viable option, but cutting him still puts us $16 mil in the hole.
By cutting him, we open the opportunity for another team to sign him.....and one will.....then we only pay the difference......
It will still be a lot.....but not the full tab......even a couple/few mil savings is a lot if your the one paying the tab....
I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....
By cutting him, we open the opportunity for another team to sign him.....and one will.....then we only pay the difference......
It will still be a lot.....but not the full tab......even a couple/few mil savings is a lot if your the one paying the tab....
I guess the best possible option is for him to light it up....but if he does, do we keep him?.....considering that monster contract is for 4 years?......doubt it.....
Seriously asking, is that how it would work? It's been my impression that the money is guaranteed to be paid by the Browns unless we trade him and as part of the trade a salary deal is worked out. Any other outcome (cut, benched, w/e) means we owe him $16 mil.
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If we cut Brock, we owe him the entire $16 million, as it is fully guaranteed...so you're correct. However, I don't see us "cutting him" now. I think we wanted to see for ourselves what made the guy tick, and it's pretty obvious that Hue likes the guy, and he's not the epic pain in the ass that many thought he was. This could all change mind you, but it could go to show just how different coaches can be. I'm sure many of us played sports, and I'm also sure we all had coaches we jived with, and others we didn't. Regardless of how good his defenses were, the guy still got to the damn playoffs two years in a row, with two different teams. That has to mean SOMETHING. If Cody truly is our #1, then it makes no sense to cut a guy with starting (winning) experience, especially since the other guy is a rookie (sorry Hogan).
But say things go sideways, and we do cut him. We pay the guy $16 million dollars and wish him well. As much as that hurts, it's not going to kill us because we still have the 2nd round (and first round btw) pick from the Texans. I also want people to think about where those picks could be. I'm not so sure the Texans are going to win anywhere NEAR the same amount of games. Their two best defenders, while dominant, have a NASTY injury history. And while they still won a bunch of games without Watt, I don't see them winning without both Watt and Clowney. And it's very possible both of those guys miss time. Even if they are both healthy, look at the Texans' QB situation. They could win 10 games, or they could win 4. I'm serious...I don't think they're that good at all.
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I think the Brock trade will go down as one of the most lopsided in league history. A good starting QB and a 2nd rounder for a 4th rounder.
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If we cut Brock, we owe him the entire $16 million, as it is fully guaranteed...so you're correct. However, I don't see us "cutting him" now. I think we wanted to see for ourselves what made the guy tick, and it's pretty obvious that Hue likes the guy, and he's not the epic pain in the ass that many thought he was. This could all change mind you, but it could go to show just how different coaches can be. I'm sure many of us played sports, and I'm also sure we all had coaches we jived with, and others we didn't. Regardless of how good his defenses were, the guy still got to the damn playoffs two years in a row, with two different teams. That has to mean SOMETHING. If Cody truly is our #1, then it makes no sense to cut a guy with starting (winning) experience, especially since the other guy is a rookie (sorry Hogan).
But say things go sideways, and we do cut him. We pay the guy $16 million dollars and wish him well. As much as that hurts, it's not going to kill us because we still have the 2nd round (and first round btw) pick from the Texans. I also want people to think about where those picks could be. I'm not so sure the Texans are going to win anywhere NEAR the same amount of games. Their two best defenders, while dominant, have a NASTY injury history. And while they still won a bunch of games without Watt, I don't see them winning without both Watt and Clowney. And it's very possible both of those guys miss time. Even if they are both healthy, look at the Texans' QB situation. They could win 10 games, or they could win 4. I'm serious...I don't think they're that good at all.
Their two best defenders, while dominant, have a NASTY injury history.
In the playoff game ending the Texans 2015 season, Watt finished the game with no less than 5 torn muscles. Yes, he had some injuries [everyone at the line gets injured] but until this past season he was able to perform while playing through them. He got re-injured this past season due [not shockingly] to rehabbing too hard following the 2015 season. Frankly, my early money in Vegas is on Watt winning both DPOY and Comeback POY.
Joe Thomas put himself on the injury list with a receding hairline, so both sides do it.
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I tend to think if Brock was the answer Houston would have held on to him for themselves instead of parting company. I got to watch a couple of Notre Dame games this past year and I thought Kizer looked really good at times particularly when ND played Clemson and he led ND back from a 21- 3 deficit in the second half and they almost pulled it off against Clemson finally losing 24-22. Time will tell if Kizer can develop into an NFL quarterback but he has the potential for sure.
Of course, someone said that Bill O'Brien has not been able to do shit with the 8 QBs he has had in his system. Is it the QBs? All those 26 names of CLE starting QBs since 1999...and not one went on to anywhere else to perform any better than they did here. So in that case it was the QBs. Or is it O'Brien's system? Or is it O'Brien himself that can't seem to do all that much at coaching QBs well enough to get anything really positive out of them.
Of course, someone said that Bill O'Brien has not been able to do shit with the 8 QBs he has had in his system. Is it the QBs? All those 26 names of CLE starting QBs since 1999...and not one went on to anywhere else to perform any better than they did here. So in that case it was the QBs. Or is it O'Brien's system? Or is it O'Brien himself that can't seem to do all that much at coaching QBs well enough to get anything really positive out of them.
Good point and hoping that is the case here and maybe Hue will have better success in developing him.
As for the Browns qb's since 99 I think we can lay claim to having some of the best back up qb's in the league during that time which is the good news and the bad is they were our starters.
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Brock's contract has offset language...as mud implied. So if he is cut, we only pay the difference of what he is paid by his new team. He signs for 6m, we pay the remaining 10m.
If traded, browns can negotiate what they would pay, but it's still the difference of his new salary from the 16m.
We cut him and no one picks him up, browns still owe him 16m
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