Corey Coleman hurt again (don't draft 185 pound WRs in the 1st round)
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Another guy we'll probably let go who definitely has at least a couple good-to-great years left: DT/DE Desmond Bryant. High salary, questionable fit, Brantley and Meder both better today at the role Brantley will be asked to perform.
Trading him for a pick would be great.. Perhaps they'll keep him as a backup to both DT and DE? Could be, but at that salary I can't see happiness at the brain table.
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No need to stick the pitch-folk in Des.Bryant at all yet..Yes he turned 31 in Dec. but He's under contract this season.Desmond's,other body parts had a full year off also. Most importantly,imo Des is are most proven 4th DLman on roster. Feel lucky were not paying Des. Terrell Suggs money. Who at age 34 tore his Achilles in 15 than torn Bicep in 16. Meder,Cooper,Brantley,Stample,Ogunjobi & Holmes all bring something we have not brought to our D Front in years..Competition..Imo, Gregg Williams must raise the late game DL stamina of all our sub packages that falls on their face late in games.If Des Bryant can stay healthy thru camp let's not get Sheard stupid again..
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LMAO...yeah, guys that can play...like whom? Fatass OL that don't move the needle? A flash in the pan FS? How about the smurf receivers? I'm so sure Gabriel would've had the same production without an OL, QB, or star receiver that he benefits from in ATL.
Oh shit...I forgot Kruger, witner, and dansby...so who those guys playing with now?
Y'all remind me of polian...strict football guys that are insulted by the new browns cause ya ain't got the horsepower to comprehend what's going on.
Editt to add: furthermore, keep klinging onto the 2016 off-season to grind your axe, cause it's basically a carbon fucking copy of this off-season, right? Whatcha gonna bitch about? Pryor?
Lame...such a waste of my time.
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@ghoolie said:
They had players. Gordon,
You stayed up until after midnight to post that garbage?
Yeah, Gordon has been really helpful here since 2013. He's appeared in 5 games, scored 0 TDs and forgot the plays in half his reps. It's 2017 and he's still suspended. You got any more wisdom for us Oblivious Maximus?
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@ghoolie said:
Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.
People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.
Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.
Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.
The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.
Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.
The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
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@ghoolie said:
Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.
People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.
Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.
Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.
The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.
Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.
The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"
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It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.
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It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.
It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.
Also, we need to understand that this team will take incremental steps. Not going from awful to great. Lets give this team time and you will understand what the front office is accomplishing.
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@ghoolie said:
Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.
People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.
Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.
Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.
The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.
Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.
The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
yikes, 4-12 is fun...I wonder what the fuckass owner would do if we won 4 games after seeing him celebrate our only win last yr like it was the super bowl...that's you....fucking 4-12 is fun eh....
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Progress is fun.
To believe this team will just go from the cellar to the ceiling is beyond idiotic.
Best expect a season of 3-5 wins and, God willing, 2-3 margin increase following.
I'm not writing this year off but I am looking forward to the prospect of 2018 provided players develop and our draft picks continue to contribute.
Or as they say - Rome wasn't built in a day.
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This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"
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@ghoolie said:
The problem with your analysis, and opinion, is that it isn't based in reality. It isn't based on human nature, it isn't based on football, and it really contradicts life's lessons. Everything in your analysis is based either on euphemisms, folklore or wishful thinking. In no particular order.....
1 - A team cannot be built with youth and draft picks. It never has happened in the history of the NFL, it hasn't even been done anywhere else in life. You could not build a great orchestra with all new graduates. You surely couldn't build a great restaurant with all newbies. How about a great surgical team? Skyscraper construction team?
How is it that the Patriots remain the best team in football? They get less high picks than anyone.
2 - The other reason you cannot build a foundation on youth is that the diamond in the rough you find on the cheap today, is very likely not going to be on your team in 2 - 3 years. Likewise, the hit rate of drafting solid talent in later rounds is horrible. Having 3 times the amount of shit picks as anyone else doesn't give you a higher probability of finding great players. It gives you a higher probability of not knowing who the fuck can play.
3 - A Coach everyone wanted? WTF does that get you? EVERYONE wanted Holmgren ( I guaranteed he would fail, from the day they hired him). Everyone wanted Sewage and Crennel. We have plenty of fired players, coaches and execs that " EVERYONE " wanted.
Greg Williams is in over his head. His SB ring means nothing, as Holmgren's meant nothing. Very, very few coaches and executives are able to duplicate success they had with former teams, and Williams will not be one of them. His aggressive and careless style is a function of having a QB who can rip up the scoreboard should the defense get burned. He doesn't have that in Cleveland. His defense, by way of common sense, and by way of Hue Jackson's recipe will be a passive zone very similar to Hortons'.
4 - We don't have a QB ...................... and THAT you see, ends our conversation.
Enjoy your fantasy. Pretend that this is a different team with a different approach. However, when reality comes kicking you in the ballsack.....just be fair..................... don't pretend as if " WOW NOBODY SAW THIS".......give props where they are deserved. Don't give me this "nobody could have predicted this" bullshit dude. Just remember what I told you.
2 - 14 +/- 1 win
QB controversy by game 6, one that distracts the entire team
OL just as bad as the 2016 version
Hue Jackson will be fired
Garrett turns out to be Courtney Brown. Soft and injury prone
I fail to see how your opinion is based in reality and bolstered by facts. How is our OL just as bad as the 2016 version? I don't KNOW it will be better, but I do know we added more talent, and that's a fact. You also don't know Garrett will be Courtney Brown, or that Hue Jackson will be fired. Conversely, I don't know the opposite is true either, but Garrett was the consensus the #1 pick. You don't get to that point unless the majority of the football universe thinks you're not only good, but the best college player entering the NFL.
I'm not sure how you can say that no team has gotten better by getting younger either. Remember when the Raiders were one of the worst teams in football? What changed that? They added some young draft picks and a couple key veterans. They drafted Derek Carr in the second round, and when he, Khalil Mack, and Amari Cooper came into their own, they started winning games. Where was Kizer drafted? Second round, same as Carr. Mack wasn't number one, but he was pretty close. Very similar to our team. We added a veteran in Kenny Britt, and perhaps he can be the equivalent to what Crabtree provides. You don't get better by JUST adding youth, but it certainly helps your team sustain progress when the young guys turn out to be studs because you get them at a lower price, and they have more "peak years" to play because of their age.
I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm cool with that. Again, I respect your opinion and I'm not going to throw stones at you for having it. I happen to think that we're building our team the correct way, and we actually have some talent at key positions. Collins and Kirksey are a dynamic combination at linebacker, I feel (as do many others btw) that our OL will be very good, if not dominant, and we actually have two pass rushers that opposing teams will have to game plan for (again, my opinion). Are we a "complete team"? Hell no, not even close. I don't trust Corey Coleman yet, and I'm not sure any of our other bozos at receiver will step up. I also don't know about our QB's, and feel that we still need a ton of help there. I can say this, we're about due to strike gold, and perhaps Kizer is that guy. Maybe Brock of Cody plays better than we think. Teams get better all of the time, and we're setting ourselves up the correct way. We are adding assets without sacrificing our future, and it's going to be a blast NEXT year when we get to use our boatload of draft picks again. I really think the Texans' first and second rounders we possess will end up being higher than many believe. I don't see them going to the playoffs again, and I think it's quite possible they only win about 5 games. That would give us about the #8 pick in the draft, and the early corresponding second round pick.
I think we're doing pretty well. We can go back and forth, and that's what this board is for, but the fact remains we obviously won't know a thing until September.
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Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.
But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.
Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know
Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.
But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:
I suck
You suck
He sucks
She sucks
It sucks
We suck
They suck.
Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.
Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.
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Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.
But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.
Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know
Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.
But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:
I suck
You suck
He sucks
She sucks
It sucks
We suck
They suck.
Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.
Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.
Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.
But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.
Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know
Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.
But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:
I suck
You suck
He sucks
She sucks
It sucks
We suck
They suck.
Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.
Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.
Yeah- that Steeler dynasty in the 70s was ALL based on drafting young talent- and letting it mature. Bradshaw, Harris, Mean Joe Greene, and drafting 4 HOFers in one year (Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and dime a dozen OL Webster) sure didn't hurt either.
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The Seahawks went to 2 Super Bowls by drafting well and letting that young talent grow together. The good problem to have is to draft so well that you can't afford to keep the team together after 4-5 years.
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Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.
But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.
Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know
Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.
But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:
I suck
You suck
He sucks
She sucks
It sucks
We suck
They suck.
Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.
Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.
Yeah- that Steeler dynasty in the 70s was ALL based on drafting young talent- and letting it mature. Bradshaw, Harris, Mean Joe Greene, and drafting 4 HOFers in one year (Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and dime a dozen OL Webster) sure didn't hurt either.
Yeah- that Steeler dynasty in the 70s was ALL based on drafting young talent- and letting it mature. Bradshaw, Harris, Mean Joe Greene, and drafting 4 HOFers in one year (Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and dime a dozen OL Webster) sure didn't hurt either.
Actually those drafts looked like a joke till Cheat Noll started juicing the hell out of all his players.
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The value of the draft is actually having the rookies under contract but performing at the same high level for 4-5 years at the low rookie salaries. The Pats have begun to trade their 5 yrs of rookie control over good players for other teams' early castoffs with only 2+ yrs of control under that contract.
Teams can and have always been built with the draft -- The Seahawks did exactly that, and have continued to reload that way. Their defense wasn't dominant until they were able to get Earl Thomas. Seattle had the highest-paid OL in the league when they won the title.
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