Coaching staff report card
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I've also been one of the guys that's been saying it's lack of talent, not so much coaching over the last 10 years. I know guys like
Mud, Mik, Tour and myself were against the firing of Pettine. Say what you want about him, but he set the high water mark with a 7-9 record over the last decade.
I didn't like Horton as D.C. the first time he was hired, and even less on his next go round. Williams should be an improvement, but let's face it, the previous 2 guys set the bar very low.
Chris Tabor...has always had me missing Brad Seely.
Hue needs to be HC or OC but shouldn't be both. As an OC he has a tendency to get too cute with the play calling (anyone remember the first and goal at Pittsburgh last year?).
Nice post Mud.
... he set the high water mark with a 7-9 record over the last decade.
It'll be a good day when we win more than 7.....
I didn't like Horton as D.C. the first time he was hired, and even less on his next go round. Williams should be an improvement, but let's face it, the previous 2 guys set the bar very low.
Agree...Williams looks like an upgrade .......and, yes, the bar is very very low......still a ways to go to just get back to where we were a year or 2 ago
Chris Tabor...has always had me missing Brad Seely.
Eh...Tabor seems ok.....really dont see any obvious negatives and he seems to be respected(and wanted) by every staff that comes in.....
Hue needs to be HC or OC but shouldn't be both. As an OC he has a tendency to get too cute with the play calling (anyone remember the first and goal at Pittsburgh last year?).
Again, we agree 100%......get an OC and just let Hue lead........Not only do I remember that play, I also remember 2 safeties on consecutive possessions, a fake punt without a punter, a time out before the first play, a potential game winning drive snuffed by handing the ball to someone who has never had the ball handed to him, etc etc etc.....its a long list.....mind numbing really.....
Nice post Mud.
Nice reply Dawg
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HC's that are OC's..Arians,Payton,Reid,Case,Koetter,Gruden. Can't say they need a QB to worry about? Mike McCarthy fired OC Tom Clements with a QB as his middle man. God knows we need somebody else to fire on this staff. Did Hue ever replace Pep Hamilton's duties? Any who.. Bill O'Brien & Shanny call their own plays. O'Brien is on a banana peel & Shanny's just got a 6 years deal to find a QB. Hue's got 3 years left. Unless Hue finds someone he can trust?(Lewis?) I think Hue's going down with his own ship..with a full plate..A Very Good analyst Mud!
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Pettine tried a 60 yard FG with Devon Hester standing in the end zone to return it. TWICE he did it. He was a dope. And so was his arch enemy Farmer.
Hue screwed up the handling of Kessler. And Hue totally screwed up the end of the first half against Cincy. (can't remember so many confusing decisions made in such a short time).
I agree, an OC is needed.
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DC: Our new one has a track record and on a 2016 team whose Offense rivaled ours in ineptitude he guided that D to top half finishes in most team stats. The most encouraging? They were 6th in the league in the percentage of drives that yielded points.The least encouraging? Penalties... but they often accompany aggression.
OC: Yes... we need one. Great point above on to what extent Pep's "hole" has been filled.
ST: Biggest disagreement here... I'm with Hue and Pet. Tabor is a keeper.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
DC: Our new one has a track record and on a 2016 team whose Offense rivaled ours in ineptitude he guided that D to top half finishes in most team stats. The most encouraging? They were 6th in the league in the percentage of drives that yielded points.The least encouraging? Penalties... but they often accompany aggression.
OC: Yes... we need one. Great point above on to what extent Pep's "hole" has been filled.
ST: Biggest disagreement here... I'm with Hue and Pet. Tabor is a keeper.
Tabor is a keeper.
I harken back to our game against New England in Foxborough when Josh Gordon killed them.
The game was in our hands. The Pats scored but they needed the onside kick. Without it, we win.
WHAT DID TABOR DO?
I'm in the stands watching....the Pats are lining up...and lining up...and I'm like, Hey, what's going on? The Patriots are lined up! I look to find OUR guys and sure enough they ARE on the field, but just barely. We had two little huddles of guys by each sideline. I said aloud, "He's gonna kick it right up the middle and get it himself."
I will NEVER EVER forget Tabor losing us that game! We kicked the ass of the Patriots...IN FOXBOROUGH....and he LET them have the ball back so they could beat us.
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Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks i think(hope) he'll be able to settle down and operate much more effectively as our Offensive Coach. Like Mud i did not see the offensive genius that Hue was touted to be. His playcalling/decision making was ineffective at best and detrimental at worst. I'm very happy to see that player evaluation/staff selection and anything other than offense has been lifted from Hue Jackson as he was very poor in those regards.
Williams has a long Pedigree of success in the NFL so it remains to be seen how he will fare here. I also believe Williams is a good insurance policy if we should flounder offensively and flourish defensively we could very well see Williams take over the Head Coaching job in earnest at the bye and nothing of great value would be lost considering Hue is HC by title only at this point. -
Well....at the very least.....I see a consensus forming on the "Hue shouldnt be OC" front......
Guessing that offensive genius tag is fading fast......(twas a figment of peoples imaginations anyhow)
Well....at the very least.....I see a consensus forming on the "Hue shouldnt be OC" front......
Guessing that offensive genius tag is fading fast......(twas a figment of peoples imaginations anyhow)
Despite my refined approach, I really don't think Hue is the guy. He seemed to passive, and his choice of RG3 really was a WTF moment for me. There was simply no upside to taking that turkey. What was Hue thinking?
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I didn't mind Hue bringing in RG3.
Let's face it. We were desperate for a QB. No draft picks involved in bringing him in.
What I DID mind was Hue sticking with him after it was evident that he doesn't play 'smart' football and he isn't very accurate.
Hue & RG3 lost us that game against the Steelers with that stupid bubble screen pass on the 1 yard line.
(still pisses me off.....it was the Steelers!....we were gonna beat the Steelers!)
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Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks i think(hope) he'll be able to settle down and operate much more effectively as our Offensive Coach. Like Mud i did not see the offensive genius that Hue was touted to be. His playcalling/decision making was ineffective at best and detrimental at worst. I'm very happy to see that player evaluation/staff selection and anything other than offense has been lifted from Hue Jackson as he was very poor in those regards.
Williams has a long Pedigree of success in the NFL so it remains to be seen how he will fare here. I also believe Williams is a good insurance policy if we should flounder offensively and flourish defensively we could very well see Williams take over the Head Coaching job in earnest at the bye and nothing of great value would be lost considering Hue is HC by title only at this point.Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks...
He has? News I missed during my early June tavelthon?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks...
He has? News I missed during my early June tavelthon?
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Sure i'll see if i can find some quotes from 2016 and the quotes from 2017 to compare. General Gist without exacts quotes was in 2016 Hue was said to be involved very much on the defense side of the ball as well as scouting and special teams. a recent 2017 quote is him saying he has "no idea" what the defense is doing or WHO is playing there as it is under Williams. Similar to when asked about Player acquisition specifically Jeremy Maclin. He "Hoped" and was "Excited" that the player personnel team were talking with the Maclin and to a lesser extent Colin K., But admitted he knew none of the details of those talks. He's Also admitted to be more Focused on the offense this year.
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Hue had to do the gimmicks on offense to keep guys entertained. I'm sure they thought it was cool. That's why he's a great motivator. We'll see if, with more talent, his offense is more solid.
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Sure i'll see if i can find some quotes from 2016 and the quotes from 2017 to compare. General Gist without exacts quotes was in 2016 Hue was said to be involved very much on the defense side of the ball as well as scouting and special teams. a recent 2017 quote is him saying he has "no idea" what the defense is doing or WHO is playing there as it is under Williams. Similar to when asked about Player acquisition specifically Jeremy Maclin. He "Hoped" and was "Excited" that the player personnel team were talking with the Maclin and to a lesser extent Colin K., But admitted he knew none of the details of those talks. He's Also admitted to be more Focused on the offense this year.
Sure i'll see if i can find some quotes from 2016 and the quotes from 2017 to compare. General Gist without exacts quotes was in 2016 Hue was said to be involved very much on the defense side of the ball as well as scouting and special teams. a recent 2017 quote is him saying he has "no idea" what the defense is doing or WHO is playing there as it is under Williams. Similar to when asked about Player acquisition specifically Jeremy Maclin. He "Hoped" and was "Excited" that the player personnel team were talking with the Maclin and to a lesser extent Colin K., But admitted he knew none of the details of those talks. He's Also admitted to be more Focused on the offense this year.
Don't go digging on my account... I see where you are coming from now. I read "relieved" in your original post as more of something imposed by the FO than his relinquishing the duties after reinforcements arrived. In that light... just sounds like Hue is better focused at the right levels for the various aspects of his HC job.
Seems like the Williams hire has been the most liberating and that's understandable, but most of his "added" involvement in Horton's D had to be around that side's "game plan". Gameday any HC should have his hand on his D's aggression dial, but that's about it.
Same for the Offense's dial, but when you double as your own OC...
As for scouting and signing players...
- The only "scouting" an HC should do is of the next opponent. Even that role has been reduced significantly in modern organizations.
- Player-wise I'd expect no more HC input than his general impression on whether a potential signee is a good fit for the team... and barring any direct working with a FA, or having a "contact" with that player's most recent team(s), most of what your HC "knows" likely comes from his current Pro Personnel Department's reports.
Any rookie, or 2nd time, HC, especially a 2nd timer who failed in his first gig, has a natural tendency to overcontrol all the factors that impact his position. That Hue is relaxing his grip on diversions that impact his result less is a positive sign.
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HC report card?
Don't really have to look any further than 1 and 15. Could that change? Sure and I hope it does.
I actually believe that it will but...
WSS
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HC report card?
Don't really have to look any further than 1 and 15. Could that change? Sure and I hope it does.
I actually believe that it will but...
WSS
HC report card?
Don't really have to look any further than 1 and 15. Could that change? Sure and I hope it does.
I actually believe that it will but...
WSS
You are what your record says you are: Bill Parcells.
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HC report card?
Don't really have to look any further than 1 and 15. Could that change? Sure and I hope it does.
I actually believe that it will but...
WSS
You are what your record says you are: Bill Parcells.
You are what your record says you are: Bill Parcells.
Very true....
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So what does 0-0 say?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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HC - Made some confusing decisions at the end of half and end of games. - Didn't handle the QB position very well, basically stunting the growth of the rookie by removing him from a game that he was playing well in...and sat him for most of the rest of the season in favor of two QB's who had proven to NOT be the future.
OC - HC is the OC. As far as the offense goes, What can ya make with crap? Crap pie? Crap soup? Half the OL left in FA, the other half got hurt...leaving Joe Thomas alone. This resulted in our Crappy QB's not getting time to hook up with our Crappy WR's. Also resulting in no room for our half decent RB's to run. - It's awfully hard to judge an OC in a situation like last year.
DC - Ray Horton released, Greg Williams brought in. - An experienced DC with some nastiness in him. Articulate and professional...but I'm certain his vocabulary could quickly shrink to four letter words in game situations. Some think that his D will be over-aggressive, will get burned and penalized a lot. We'll see. I think the D will be better under his tutelage. - I also think that Haslam consider's him someone that can be an interim coach should his itchy trigger finger get the best of him and he fires Hue.
So, school is out on our HC.
Our OC gets a mulligan.
And our DC has a clean slate.
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