Defensive report card
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I just hope williams eases in garett. We have plenty of depth at that position
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Ok....so this is my favorite one.....why?.....1) I love D.......2) I see some good stuff happening on D......
This defense is coming off 2 terrible....yucky....incredibly bad seasons......not just bad bad.....I mean really really really bad....embarrassing bad.....etc.....
Soo.....when I start feeling some optimism(which I am) and seeing some true life talent(which I am) and feel like we have a good coach and game plan(which I do)....then things are really looking up......
Ive already touched on Williams(in the coach thread), so Ill just say I think he was a great hire and hope the team responds well to his special kind of personality and coaching scheme.....
The defense was decimated following 2015......Unlike the Offense, the D side lost so many players, it was a wipe out......3 out of 4 starting LB's gone.....3 outta 4 of our best/starting DL gone.....both starting safeties gone......so, from 11 starters, we only had 4 left.....and lost several of our "first in - back ups"....
And the team performed exactly as you'd expect.....they blew rocks.....
BUT.....one year later....here are the positives that have come from that:
1) Carry overs Christian Kirksey and Danny Shelton both had break out seasons. They were really freaking good and showed that we had 2 solid "middle" players emerging, which should add immediate improvements in our run D and be part of our core going fwd
2) We traded for Taylor CB and Collins LB and both proved to be good adds. Taylor has a ways to go to be considered a "good or great" CB, but he showed enough to be considered a solid pick up. Collins played great for someone stepping into a terrible situation, in the middle of a season. Another 2 players that should help us going fwd.
3) We should see improvement(possibly dramatic improvement) on the Dline..... why?.....Starting with 2 players that will help immediatey.....Ogbah, (the one rookie who actually showed up in 2016) will be one year better and should improve on his solid rookie year(ala Shelton)....and the return of Dez Bryant. a solid player who was one of the missing in 2016.......PLUS, we drafted Garrett, who is a premier prospect and the one who, if he lives upto expectation can put this D line over the top.....
So....the equation.....Shelton + Ogbah + Bryant + Garrett adds up to some good stuff....!!! ....and you can subtract one(for any reason) and I still feel we'd be better....
4) We should be stronger at SS too......we had 2 fairly decent prospects vying for that role, with Campbell and Kindred(2 kids, both with less than a season of starts)....they are thumpers who need seasoning.....NOW, we've added Peppers and Pryor to that mix.....so, no matter what, we will be better AND deeper at this position.....
5) CB is a tough one....as, lately, Hadens health is such a large factor.....will we have good Joe Haden or oft injured "just ok" Joe Haden?.....not something we can rely on......BUT, the good news is that Taylor seems ok on the other side and Boddy Calhoon looks like a nice pick up at the slot. The best part is the acquisition of McCourty,,,,he adds the veteran back up, with starter ability we need, in case Haden goes down.....something last years team was missing......
So.....summarizing above.....I see strength in the DL, including some above average talent....some premier talent.....some development talent......and depth......very good
I also see improvement in the defensive backfield, mostly with the additions of McCourty and, hopefully, Peppers....ideally, we see good growth from at least one of the 3 kids....Kindred, Campbell or Calhoon....
In re to the rest.....I see issues that will still cause us some pangs.......most at FS, which we seem to have no obvious candidates to start...or back up...or even develop. Kinda weird having 5-6 SS candidates and no FS candidates......SOOOOOOOOOOOO, my guess is that one of these SS guys will find his way to center field.....just dont know who it will be....so have no misconceptions that this will be a strength.....more likely a weakness....
And Linebacker is another messy situation....IE we have 2....thats all......the rest pretty much bite,,,,and there are no "strong" candidates in the stable.....I know we will be using the above mentioned safety group to cover for these deficiencies, but cannot consider Kirksey/Collins as a solid LB group....if it's just the 2 guys.....lets all pray together that neither one gets hurt....because if that happens>,,,,,oh my......
So...there it is.....the D is getting better......DL looks like it could be set for years.....just a few players away in the D backfield......with some prospects who may show up.......and a LB corp that is still very deficient, but has a solid 2 player core that is proven.......
We should be much better this season....I have high expectations.....
1) Carry overs Christian Kirksey and Danny Shelton both had break out seasons. They were really freaking good and showed that we had 2 solid "middle" players emerging, which should add immediate improvements in our run D and be part of our core going fwd
Will Williams Beef Danny's weight up or down?
2) We traded for Taylor CB and Collins LB and both proved to be good adds. Taylor has a ways to go to be considered a "good or great" CB, but he showed enough to be considered a solid pick up. Collins played great for someone stepping into a terrible situation, in the middle of a season. Another 2 players that should help us going fwd.
Dramon Williams was god awe-full with 1's or 2's. The Taylor trade Sashi got very little credit for?
3) We should see improvement(possibly dramatic improvement) on the Dline..... why?.....Starting with 2 players that will help immediatey.....Ogbah, (the one rookie who actually showed up in 2016) will be one year better and should improve on his solid rookie year(ala Shelton)....and the return of Dez Bryant. a solid player who was one of the missing in 2016.......PLUS, we drafted Garrett, who is a premier prospect and the one who, if he lives upto expectation can put this D line over the top.....
Ogbah was our best draftee. Grown ass man playing in a piss poor Horton scheme..Wait till Williams puts a fire under his ass
So....the equation.....Shelton + Ogbah + Bryant + Garrett adds up to some good stuff....!!! ....and you can subtract one(for any reason) and I still feel we'd be better....
Meder, X Cooper or Orchard..it's on...OGunjobi eats RBs.Should see a rested Danny on 3rd downs crushing center of pocket
4) We should be stronger at SS too......we had 2 fairly decent prospects vying for that role, with Campbell and Kindred(2 kids, both with less than a season of starts)....they are thumpers who need seasoning.....NOW, we've added Peppers and Pryor to that mix.....so, no matter what, we will be better AND deeper at this position.....
Campbell makes it at FS or he's gone imo..Keeping Ed Reynolds is a better piece no?
5) CB is a tough one....as, lately, Hadens health is such a large factor.....will we have good Joe Haden or oft injured "just ok" Joe Haden?.....not something we can rely on......BUT, the good news is that Taylor seems ok on the other side and Boddy Calhoon looks like a nice pick up at the slot. The best part is the acquisition of McCourty,,,,he adds the veteran back up, with starter ability we need, in case Haden goes down.....something last years team was missing......
Feel better with Taylor,McCournty & Boddy in slot..If finally a good Haden shows up with them? Ben's receivers may not "get some" week 1.
So.....summarizing above.....I see strength in the DL, including some above average talent....some premier talent.....some development talent......and depth......very good
I also see improvement in the defensive backfield, mostly with the additions of McCourty and, hopefully, Peppers....ideally, we see good growth from at least one of the 3 kids....Kindred, Campbell or Calhoon....
If we get a good Haden? look for McCourtny at FS with Peppers
And Linebacker is another messy situation....IE we have 2....thats all......the rest pretty much bite,,,,and there are no "strong" candidates in the stable.....I know we will be using the above mentioned safety group to cover for these deficiencies, but cannot consider Kirksey/Collins as a solid LB group....if it's just the 2 guys.....lets all pray together that neither one gets hurt....because if that happens>,,,,,oh my......
I got a really good feeling Bobby Vega stole this kid scouting him in Durham,NC..LB Jamal Marcus. ssshhhh..
So...there it is.....the D is getting better......DL looks like it could be set for years.....just a few players away in the D backfield......with some prospects who may show up.......and a LB corp that is still very deficient, but has a solid 2 player core that is proven.......
We should be much better this season....I have high expectations.....
CUZ the Puddles of MUD SAID SO
^^It's GreenDay..but thank god for RedZone Replay..yea the Bills got us.. for now
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^Thought I read where Danny was going to report even lighter than last year, but may just be my projecting my thoughts...
On our D... The good news is I think we'll be improved vs. the run. The 4-3... our front seven... run supporting SS(s)... all seem to point to improvement... not that the bar for improvement is anything but low.
The bad news? Opponents will pass more. How effectively? That would seem to be up to how much pressure we can generate rushing four. That's a lotta "ask" of four men, but no one said it'd be easy.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
^Thought I read where Danny was going to report even lighter than last year, but may just be my projecting my thoughts...
On our D... The good news is I think we'll be improved vs. the run. The 4-3... our front seven... run supporting SS(s)... all seem to point to improvement... not that the bar for improvement is anything but low.
The bad news? Opponents will pass more. How effectively? That would seem to be up to how much pressure we can generate rushing four. That's a lotta "ask" of four men, but no one said it'd be easy.
The bad news? Opponents will pass more. How effectively? That would seem to be up to how much pressure we can generate rushing four. That's a lotta "ask" of four men, but no one said it'd be easy.
Thats my biggest concern.....(how well the DB's handle things)......but I suspect "good" QB'S will find the open receiver and beat the rush, more than they dont.....hope Im wrong.....
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Great post, Mud! Can't argue with any of it.
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The bad news? Opponents will pass more. How effectively? That would seem to be up to how much pressure we can generate rushing four. That's a lotta "ask" of four men, but no one said it'd be easy.
Thats my biggest concern.....(how well the DB's handle things)......but I suspect "good" QB'S will find the open receiver and beat the rush, more than they dont.....hope Im wrong.....
Thats my biggest concern.....(how well the DB's handle things)......but I suspect "good" QB'S will find the open receiver and beat the rush, more than they dont.....hope Im wrong.....
My feeling is that Williams will have people coming at unexpected times from unexpected locations to add to the chaos that his front 4 should already be creating. Gonna be a fun season for defensive fans.
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While I've no doubt about that, Ag... always a double edged sword.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
While I've no doubt about that, Ag... always a double edged sword.
I agree...overly aggressive defenses can make some big plays and pump up some sack #'s.....but they also tend to give up the most big plays......good QB's can usually beat them.....especially if there are no lockdown DB's protecting the top
IE.....If you bring 7 or 8......the last 3 or 4 better play great!
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The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I just hope williams eases in garett. We have plenty of depth at that position
I just hope williams eases in garett. We have plenty of depth at that position
Nope, turn the kid loose.
With possible offensive woes, our D needs to play at a high level. They drafted him #1, no need to be conservative with him.
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I have high hopes for Orchard this year. Moving back to his natiral DE position and has experience playing LB, which Williams seems to like, versatility.
Article in that.
Also didn't we land a UDFA FS that is supposed to be pretty good?
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I just hope williams eases in garett. We have plenty of depth at that position
Nope, turn the kid loose.
With possible offensive woes, our D needs to play at a high level. They drafted him #1, no need to be conservative with him.
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The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
If he brings discipline with his rabid player pump, I will wear HIS jersey.
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While I've no doubt about that, Ag... always a double edged sword.
I agree...overly aggressive defenses can make some big plays and pump up some sack #'s.....but they also tend to give up the most big plays......good QB's can usually beat them.....especially if there are no lockdown DB's protecting the top
IE.....If you bring 7 or 8......the last 3 or 4 better play great!
I agree...overly aggressive defenses can make some big plays and pump up some sack #'s.....but they also tend to give up the most big plays......good QB's can usually beat them.....especially if there are no lockdown DB's protecting the top
IE.....If you bring 7 or 8......the last 3 or 4 better play great!
Mud, I was a fan of Butch Davis because he believed in a defensive line that could destroy QBs without having to blitz. For a wee short time, before Courtney got hurt, it only lasted 3 or 4 games, maybe more, I can't remember, but pertty much the NFL was on high alert about out pass rush.
I always make the comment that no 5 OL can block 8 men, but there is logic to that. The same kind of thing happens on D, if you can get pressure on a QB with only 4 guys, it leaves them having to dedicate a RB or TE to blocking, and it gives the LBs and secondary a chance to swarm.
If we are being honest, modern rules make it difficult for DBs to cover WRs when the QB has too much time to pass. If one blitzes then of course there are less bodies to cover the receivers. I don't know about bringing Garrett on slow. What will that do? Is that like let's only go into the ocean 1/2 as much so we have less chance of a shark attack?
If the guy is physically suspect, it only takes one play to cause a catastrophe. We didn't draft him to sit him on his ass. Conversely, if there is something physically he is dealing with, for fuck's sake, why can't these asshole NFL execs just give us the real story? I think Garrett is fine. Hell, you can twist an ankle trying to move one lesbian off of another one when shooting a movie.
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While I've no doubt about that, Ag... always a double edged sword.
I agree...overly aggressive defenses can make some big plays and pump up some sack #'s.....but they also tend to give up the most big plays......good QB's can usually beat them.....especially if there are no lockdown DB's protecting the top
IE.....If you bring 7 or 8......the last 3 or 4 better play great!
I agree...overly aggressive defenses can make some big plays and pump up some sack #'s.....but they also tend to give up the most big plays......good QB's can usually beat them.....especially if there are no lockdown DB's protecting the top
IE.....If you bring 7 or 8......the last 3 or 4 better play great!
No need to bring 7 or 8 if you have a great front 4. Just adding one more at unexpected times from unexpected places can throw a monkey wrench into any offense if you already have a pressuring DL. Go back and watch Denver's SB win. That's how it's done. Cam couldn't read it fast enough to counter it. I really think the Browns are headed that direction and can hardly wait to see the results as we add better and better defenders to the team the next couple of years. And just listening to Williams' excitement in letting Garrett's play speak for itself gives great hope to that thought.
And not only do I see Ogbah's play pick up, but can hardly wait to see a stronger, slimmer Danny function in the 4-3 instead of the 3-4. Add an athlete like Peppers and I'm just saying, this is gonna be fun!!
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The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
No doubt on the direction, Ag, but the more you have to even bring a 5th man, the more susceptible you are to te big play. No better example than NYG who has twice beaten the Pats because they only needed to rush four.
Plus it's how you bring that 5th man... I've bemoaned our inability to open "rush lanes" within our blitzes for years while opponents have created free runs at our QBs. Some of this is personnel (or lack thereof), but some was design. From what I have seen we now have a designer in charge of our D... and the promise of better personnel.
The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
The LAR Defense clearly did not get the message...
Personally, I'll settle for "No Stupid Motherfucking Penalties".
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No doubt on the direction, Ag, but the more you have to even bring a 5th man, the more susceptible you are to te big play. No better example than NYG who has twice beaten the Pats because they only needed to rush four.
Plus it's how you bring that 5th man... I've bemoaned our inability to open "rush lanes" within our blitzes for years while opponents have created free runs at our QBs. Some of this is personnel (or lack thereof), but some was design. From what I have seen we now have a designer in charge of our D... and the promise of better personnel.
The white board behind Gregg Williams. "No M-Fing Penalties"
The LAR Defense clearly did not get the message...
Personally, I'll settle for "No Stupid Motherfucking Penalties".
Plus it's how you bring that 5th man... I've bemoaned our inability to open "rush lanes" within our blitzes for years while opponents have created free runs at our QBs. Some of this is personnel (or lack thereof), but some was design. From what I have seen we now have a designer in charge of our D... and the promise of better personnel.
Exactly, and that it what has me excited about the coming year defensively. No more running right to the pickup blocker and getting tied up immediately. As I said "unexpected times from unexpected places".
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