Browns TE's Preview (Part 1)
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How about 31 year old slow black tight ends?
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How about 31 year old slow black tight ends?
How about 31 year old slow black tight ends?
Such as Who?
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What do you guys think about our TE’s?
Is there a blocker amongst them?
Is there a blocker amongst them?
To be determined.
Keep in mind though, this isn't the era of a Mark Bavaro or a Dave Casper with a hand in the ground every play. You have TEs that line up wide in 2 point stances or inside, inclusive of Gronk or Graham or Gates (who didn't even play college football). Gronk's build may resemble Bavaro's but he gets injured far more frequently dating back to and throughout college. While he can help set an edge once in a while; he's used far more frequently as a matchup advantage anywhere he lines up. This really helps his WRs and gives them liberties other WRs in the division can only dream of.
The closest thing to Mark Bavaro I've seen in terms of dual purpose was Heath Miller and 15 year vet Jason Witten. There's a college highlight of Miller putting Shawn Merriman on his back they showed on daft day; and it wasn't a double team. IMO, the college spreads are no longer producing the throwback pedigrees some of us grew up accustomed to. When OJ Howard was Njoku's age, he felt the thing he needed to work on most was his blocking and consistency with it.
I went to look up Ozzie Newsome's WR career at Alabama before we transitioned a 6'2" 220 lb prospect to an NFL TE weighing in at 232 lbs. Aside from his 20.3 yards per catch in the SEC (a record that stood for over 20 years). This jumped out at me in Wikipedia: He was a 2 time All SEC player (76 & 77), and named him SEC Lineman of the Year in 1977 by the Birmingham QB Club and the Atlanta Touchdown Club. Coach Bear Bryant called him "the greatest end in Alabama history and that includes Don Hutson. A total team player,fine blocker, outstanding leader, great receiver with concentration, speed, hands." As great as all that sounds, he's much better known in the NFL for his ability and threat downfield than setting the edge. When he was a WR in college, he blocked many corners he outweighed by at least 20 lbs. When he was in the NFL, he was usually outweighed by DEs. Infante used a lot of spread formations; and if memory serves me right here - he wasn't afraid to move Ozzie around in the formation for the vertical game. That's kind of the hope/idea here with Njoku while I hope DeValve can either be our Frank Wycheck (H-back) or Mohamed Sanu (slot receiver) or Brian Brennan with height...
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What do you guys think about our TE’s?
Is there a blocker amongst them?
Is there a blocker amongst them?
This is discussed a little bit in today's Part Two of Browns' TE's:
In Part 2 of our tight end preview for Cleveland Browns training camp, we look at the remaining three players on the roster who will be competing for that third tight end spot: Randall Telfer, Taylor McNamara, and J.P. Holtz.
3. Randall Telfer - Blocking Tight End/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8832113/usa_today_9573669.jpg)
Scott R. Galvin-USA TODAY Sports
Height: 6-4 | Weight: 250 lbs | Age: 25
Experience: 2 years | College: USC
Telfer returns to the Browns for his third season, but is very much on the bubble in terms of securing a roster spot. He served as the team’s second tight end last year, primarily as a blocker, for an average of 16 snaps per game. This year, the team will place a little more trust in the blocking of their two receiving tight ends, David Njoku and Seth DeValve.
More damning that that, though, is the fact that Telfer was not a stellar blocking tight end last season. Whether that was a function of a depleted offensive line remains to be seen, but the fact that he’s in camp with an upgraded line will allow him a chance to show he has a place on the team for some blocking situations. The team hardly targeted him last year (2 catches, 4 yards), but he doesn’t have hands of stone if the ball comes his way, including when he made a 30-yard catch in the preseason.
It is worth noting that Telfer missed all of 2015 after having mid-foot surgery, so 2016 basically served as his rookie season. I’m more-than-willing to see how Telfer has improved with an offseason of work, but I’m not so confident on his roster odds at this point.
Final Roster Odds: 50%
4. Taylor McNamara - Rookie Tight End/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8832243/usa_today_8982475.jpg)
Southern California Trojans quarterback Cody Kessler (6) talks with tight end Taylor McNamara (48). Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 251 lbs | Age: 22
Experience: Rookie | College: USC
When the Browns signed 11 undrafted rookie free agents following the 2017 draft, most of the players were on the defensive side of the ball. In fact, the only offensive UDFA player remaining on the team is McNamara, a tight end who has ties to quarterback Cody Kessler from their days together at USC.
McNamara started his college football career out at Oklahoma before transferring to USC in 2015. He did not pile up a lot of yardage over his two seasons at USC, combining for 24 catches for 194 yards and 5 touchdowns. Scouting reports say that he is a limited route runner and won’t get yards after the catch, but that his hands are good — at his Pro Day, reports were that he caught the ball “exceptionally well,” which “built off of a terrific performance at the Shrine Game.” Expect things like this:
USC TE Taylor McNamara looking good early. Splits zone coverage pretty easily here.
McNamara will enter camp as more of a blocking tight end, competing directly with his fellow alum (Telfer). He received good reviews for his blocking at USC, and if he can hold his own in camp, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him beat out Telfer.
Final Roster Odds: 40%
5. J.P. Holtz - Backup Tight End/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8832229/usa_today_9298940.jpg)
Ken Blaze-USA TODAY Sports
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 240 lbs | Age: 23
Experience: 1 year | College: Pittsburgh
You might not remember Holtz, but he signed with the Browns last year as an undrafted free agent. He was with the team throughout training camp and had 2 catches for 8 yards in the preseason before being waived. The team signed him to their practice squad in mid-December after being on the market for several months.
Last year, our scouting report on Holtz was that he was limited athletically, but displayed good hands and a willingness to catch passes over the middle. Holtz' strength came in the pass-blocking department, and he had some experience as a tight end and H-back player. We’ll see if he takes any backup reps behind Danny Vitale at fullback, but heading into camp, I just view him as an extra body at the tight end position.
Final Roster Odds: 10%
The short answer is "no", we don't really have a true "blocking TE". Telfer was supposed to be that guy, but he didn't grade out all that well as a blocker, but like the article says, that could be just a result of the Browns' overall poor OL play throughout the season after injuries and shuffling. It wouldn't really surprise me if the Browns add a veteran TE who specializes in blocking in the near future. I've also read several times that David Njoku wasn't bad at blocking, he's just kind of raw at it. The effort is there, and the tenacity is there, but it will take time for him to really develop. Devalve bulking up to 260 from 245 is very nice, but I don't ever see him as somebody who will be a true "blocking TE". If we plan on running the ball as much as Hue SAYS we want to, then we will definitely need to invest in somebody who knows how to bring the business. It's another reason I find the Barnidge move puzzling. I never considered Gary as being a dominant blocker, but I'm certain he was better than anybody else on our roster.
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A lot of people missing Barnidge. I'm surprised there isn't a bigger market for 31 yo slow white tight ends who don't block so well.
Zombo
Zombo said:
A lot of people missing Barnidge. I'm surprised there isn't a bigger market for 31 yo slow white tight ends who don't block so well.
Zombo
Pretty in Pink.
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Surprised Holtz hasn't shown anything.
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If Telfer's roster spot depends on his blocking, then he's in trouble...
We don't need a Gronk, although one would be nice. He's the rarest of the rare... a receiving weapon and a 6th lineman in one body. But we need to sacrifice less blocking ability than we have in the pursuit of an added aerial weapon because we want to run the ball.
Seattle fucked up royally when they acquired Graham. They sacrificed too much blocking from the position for the promise of more air attack... and in the process they lost their Offensive identity. While it's not as if we have an identity to sacrifice, we are trying to (re)establish one... and all signs point to it being very much like the "made-for-the-AFCN" one Seattle had.
It is not a matter of being able to set an edge or drive-block a DE. If my TE can reliably chip a DE as he releases to his route or 2nd level assignment, cut off backside pursuit and fill pursuit lanes downfield, then I'm happy. If I can get more, sure, I'll take it, but again, we've not seen the minimum reliably since Dray left.
Couple more comment replies...
- I agree that we have a couple youngins that may fill the bill, however, I do not see a vet being added... and keeping Barn was not an answer.
- While not remembered for his blocking, Ozzie was a better blocker than he was often given credit for being.
- While Gronk stands alone today, there are a handful of other "balanced" TEs still playing that I'd love to see a Brown emulate... Olsen, Kelce both spring immediately to mind.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Stumbled across this "analytic" set in a PFF article on Seth by Mark Chichester • Cleveland Browns • Seth DeValve • Jul 12, 2017
I omitted a couple unfortunate MKC mentions...
- In his rookie year, DeValve played just 92 snaps for the Browns, and caught all 10 catchable targets thrown his way.
- He received a PFF overall grade of 69.6, the third highest grade by a rookie tight end.
- He was productive on his limited snaps, and averaged 2.31 yards per route run, which led all rookie tight ends.
- DeValve was good with the ball in his hands, forcing three missed tackles on his 10 receptions, tying for the most among rookies with Hunter Henry, who saw 26 more receptions.
- When targeting DeValve, Browns quarterbacks earned a passer rating of 150.3, the second-highest mark of all tight ends in the league with at least 10 targets.
- In 2016, The Browns used two tight ends on 20.2 percent of their offensive plays...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-te-seth-devalve-jumped-out-at-browns-camp
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think we kept 4 TE's last year.
The blocking was bad last year with Mack & Schwartz gone. And it only got worse as injuries hit the guard positions.
I agree that we may pick up a veteran blocking TE....unless the McNamara kid turns out be a good blocker at the NFL level. (that would be cool)
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I think we kept 4 TE's last year.
The blocking was bad last year with Mack & Schwartz gone. And it only got worse as injuries hit the guard positions.
I agree that we may pick up a veteran blocking TE....unless the McNamara kid turns out be a good blocker at the NFL level. (that would be cool)
I think we kept 4 TE's last year.
The blocking was bad last year with Mack & Schwartz gone. And it only got worse as injuries hit the guard positions.
I agree that we may pick up a veteran blocking TE....unless the McNamara kid turns out be a good blocker at the NFL level. (that would be cool)
Good points. Like I've said before and Gumby just alluded to - we actually lined Spencer Drango up as a TE quite a bit last year if that says anything on behalf of the blocking we were getting from our Tight End position. But when we do something like this - it pretty much assures the defense we aren't throwing the football.
I remember back when he had Winslow after countless lower body surgeries for knee and staph infections - he was only a fraction of the blocker he was coming out of college. Back then, we had to pick up a dual purpose guy and found a very underrated TE (Steve Heiden) from the Chargers. Using him kept us from tipping off any pass/run tendencies. Good Lord, that already feels like a lifetime ago.
Hopefully, we'll find someone this preseason or discover we already have someone capable...
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No problem do I see. Njoku is not afraid of contact - just the opposite. He was a college YAC monster.
and, he's very, very smart, can play different places in the offense. So can DeValve. They are both -really-
athletic, and they are both -real- football players. should be exciting stuff. Two TE offense plays...
can not wait to watch that.
http://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/19/cleveland-browns-utilizing-multiple-tight-ends-y-and-u/
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No problem do I see. Njoku is not afraid of contact - just the opposite. He was a college YAC monster.
and, he's very, very smart, can play different places in the offense. So can DeValve. They are both -really-
athletic, and they are both -real- football players. should be exciting stuff. Two TE offense plays...
can not wait to watch that.
http://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/19/cleveland-browns-utilizing-multiple-tight-ends-y-and-u/
No problem do I see. Njoku is not afraid of contact - just the opposite. He was a college YAC monster.
and, he's very, very smart, can play different places in the offense. So can DeValve. They are both -really-
athletic, and they are both -real- football players. should be exciting stuff. Two TE offense plays...
can not wait to watch that.
http://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/19/cleveland-browns-utilizing-multiple-tight-ends-y-and-u/
Coleman and Britt outside........Njoku and DeValve TE..............Crow or Duke at RB. - Is that you're thought?
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more like, DeValve (TE), in the slot maybe. I'm thinkin move them all over the place, find mismatches.
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One tidbit in a local Texans broadcast overview...
Last year Texan QBs (mostly Brock) completed over 110 passes to TEs... 50 or more to each of their top two TEs, Fiedorowicz (54) and Griffin (50).
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
One tidbit in a local Texans broadcast overview...
Last year Texan QBs (mostly Brock) completed over 110 passes to TEs... 50 or more to each of their top two TEs, Fiedorowicz (54) and Griffin (50).
One tidbit in a local Texans broadcast overview...
Last year Texan QBs (mostly Brock) completed over 110 passes to TEs... 50 or more to each of their top two TEs, Fiedorowicz (54) and Griffin (50).
So....what do you think the reason for this stat is?
The Texas QB's like TE's?.....or the Texas offense likes TE's?.....or the Texas WR's bite?.....all of the above?.....none of the above?
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One tidbit in a local Texans broadcast overview...
Last year Texan QBs (mostly Brock) completed over 110 passes to TEs... 50 or more to each of their top two TEs, Fiedorowicz (54) and Griffin (50).
So....what do you think the reason for this stat is?
The Texas QB's like TE's?.....or the Texas offense likes TE's?.....or the Texas WR's bite?.....all of the above?.....none of the above?
So....what do you think the reason for this stat is?
The Texas QB's like TE's?.....or the Texas offense likes TE's?.....or the Texas WR's bite?.....all of the above?.....none of the above?
We lead the league with our QB's being hit with 140. Houston's OL was not the greatest allowing 97 hits on their QB's..It's got to be easier dinking a RB or dunking a TE before you would ever see a WR on a come back? Unless your name is Rogers(man what a arm) EDIT::With this Wide of Receiver Corp group we have
Njoku should never be put in a 3 point stance on end of line..slot or Gronk wide is his moneymaker.. -
One tidbit in a local Texans broadcast overview...
Last year Texan QBs (mostly Brock) completed over 110 passes to TEs... 50 or more to each of their top two TEs, Fiedorowicz (54) and Griffin (50).
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