Government Readies Youth Corps To Take On Vets

? Aloysius

@calfoxwc said:
Al, the libs' mod, should at least try to answer the
question. Why do you guys ignore Obama's CIVILIAN DEFENSE CORPS,

When all we heard about the Patriot Act was a devasting losss of

your freedoms and privacy, and the paranoid fear that your doors were going

to be kicked in and your phone conversations recorded ?

Why do you keep mentioning me in your posts? It's like when Rich started stalking RifferX at the other board; it's silly, somewhat annoying, and a little bit creepy.

FYI, Legacy does the bulk of the mod work here. Both he & Chic John are free to take whatever action they deem necessary. When I want to do something, I make sure to ask Leg first.

The idea to limit posters to a thread a day came from me, but it was something both of us agreed would be a good idea. People were already complaining about being inundated with threads, and we thought it'd be a good idea to try something during the almost football-free period between the draft and training camp, when more people tend to visit this board.

And I think it's working well. Yesterday, I looked at an older page of this board and saw eight threads with no responses, but the first page only had two goose egg threads. There were several threads with more than fifty responses and one with well over a hundred.

You seem to be the only one complaining. You're also involved in most of the personal flame wars and just today criticized another poster for starting a thread you didn't like. It seems like you're more interested in discussing the politics of this board than actual politics. Legacy and Inspecta have already pointed this out to you, but you're free to keep believing that a liberal cabal is oppressing you. Just try to not let it take over every one of your posts.

As to the civilian security thingy, Heck answered your question two months ago. I recommend you check that out.

calfoxwc

His answer was incomplete - it said nothing about "civilian NATIONAL SECURITY corps".

National Security, I was erroneously saying defense corps.

Heck grabbed at one part of the weed, but ignored the rest.

I mentioned you, because you Thanked Dan on his angry, bitterly critical post

objecting to T to dare express his opinion since it didn't conform to you and Dan's

protecting the Teflon God of Liberals.

Here is what I expect the answer should have been:

Obama SAID National Security, not Peace Corps, not Americorps, not a veterans helping corps.

Obama, imo, is setting up our society to be 100% dependent upon him for societies survival.

Hence, he is "buying votes and power" with tax dollars.

The real answer is not Heck's flippant and narrow perspective retort in defense of Obama,

and the real answer is not the Brown shirts front and center.

But, Acorn has intimidated people who speak out, Leftist Prosecutors in Minn. did the same.

Obama has done the same.

Acorn is now under investigation in more than 10 states.

Obama's org.

So, the jump to brown shirts may be overstated, but the idea has significant historical perspective

when a radical speaks of a civilian national defense corps, as powerful as our own military and as well funded.

Well, HERE is the correct and objective answer to my question that I never received from Heck, or Dan, or Al:

**********************************************************************

July 20, 2008

Obama's Civilian National Security Force

By Lee Cary

window.google_render_ad();Barack Obama's recent words to promote his image as Community Organizer in Chief were not about forming a paramilitary force of volunteer brown shirts. They were about turning America into one, giant, community organizer's sandbox at enormous cost to taxpayers.

Senator Obama was nearly 17 minutes into his July 2 speech (yet another one where naming Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was required) in Colorado Springs, Colorado when he deviated from his pre-released script and performed without the teleprompter net saying,

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have

a civilian national security force

that's just as powerful, just as strong,

just as well-funded

." (

emphasis added

)

The immediate context for that amazing statement was a preview of parts of his plan to vastly expand community service opportunities for Americans of nearly all ages. He said,

"People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve."

The range of his community service initiatives was outlined in an earlier American Thinker article. In his campaign document entitled "The Blueprint for Change: Barack Obama's Plan For America," Obama's "Service" section runs a close second to "Education" in complexity. But, with his Colorado Springs' statement, it grabbed first place in its projected costs to taxpayers. Obama did the cost projection himself.

He plans to double the Peace Corps' budget by 2011, and expand AmeriCorps, USA Freedom Corps, VISTA, YouthBuild Program, and the Senior Corps. Plus, he proposes to form a Classroom Corps, Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, Veterans Corps, Homeland Security Corps, Global Energy Corps, and a Green Jobs Corps. Here a corps - there a corps - everywhere a corps corps.

So it made sense in Colorado Springs when he said his call to community service "will be a central cause of my presidency." He couldn't be clearer in signaling his intentions, including a Social Investment Fund Network to link local non-profits with the federal government.

The entire plan is breathtaking in its scope. But it does not, as at least one internet writer has suggested, portend a "giant police force." It would be easier to rebut if it did. As it is, it's silly stuff born of naively fanciful dreams.

Senator Obama aims to tap into the already active volunteerism of millions of Americans and recruit them to become cogs in a gigantic government machine grinding out his social re-engineering agenda. It's Orwellian-like, with a novice social activist's mentality at the helm. In his speech he said,

"Now I know what the cynics will say. I've heard from them all my life."

Has he? Well, given his absence of noteworthy community organizational achievements, perhaps he might have done more listening to the "cynics" for constructive criticism.

It seems clear that he meant to say, in effect, that the security of the nation is as dependent on its unarmed community service providers as it is on its armed military personnel. Even the nomenclature "corps," as in Peace Corps, carries a martial connotation as does the name, Salvation Army. His point: national security begins with civilians. It's a message like the one America's home front heard throughout World War II. Except in his case, he means to marshal volunteers for social service and economic equality while saving the environment.

"Because the future of our nation depends on the soldier at Fort Carson, but is also depends on the teacher in East LA, the nurse in Appalachia, the after-school worker in New Orleans..."

That is, of course, true. But ultimate national security requires someone to carry, and, if necessary, discharge a deadly weapon with intent to kill. This is something teachers, nurses and after-school workers are typically unaccustomed to doing as part of their service obligations.

Voters haven't paid much attention to his "Service" plan because the old news media has ignored it. That will likely continue, even though Obama attached an approximate price tag to it in Colorado Springs. When Obama said that the "civilian national security force" would be just as "well-funded" as the Armed Forces, he stepped squarely into the giant sandbox and played with the big numbers. As the late Carl Sagan said, "billions and billions" of dollars. Here's how.

The FY 2008 Department of Defense (DoD) budget is about $482 billion. Obama has announced his intentions to cut "tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending," including $9 billion per month spent in Iraq and expenditures for the missile defense system, while increasing the force size of the Army and Marine Corps.

Let's imagine "tens of billions" in cuts eventually adds up to a whopping $150 billion. That would be a near one-third cut in defense spending, taking the DoD budget down to $332 billion. Even in such an extreme case of DoD budget reduction, for his "civilian national security force" to be "just as well-funded" would mean funding his community service initiatives at an equivalent $332 billion.

Consequently, another $332 billion in addition to the Pentagon's reduced budget of $332 billion equals a net increase of $182 billion in the annual federal budget, assuming we sponge-up the already existing expenditures for the relatively meager, by comparison, existing service programs he plans to expand. That's $182,000,000,000 in new federal monies, and that means higher taxes.

In his entire life, Senator Obama has never managed an organization larger than a Senate staff, or that of a law school publication. And, he's never operated a for-profit business or been responsible for any profit center within one. So, while words matter to Senator Obama, it's not clear if math means anything to him at all.

Note: the author has experience in community organizing. For example, he organized one of the earliest Meals-on-Wheels programs in Illinois, in continuous service for over 30 years. He trained over a hundred Illinois non-profit organizations to resettle Vietnamese Refugees. He assembled three dozen congregations and a synagogue in a mid-sized Texas town to provide emergency assistance to low-income citizens, in continuous operation for 25 years. He was an expert witness at a Texas Senate hearing when legislation forming the state's Commission on Human Rights was being drafted.

calfoxwc

FYI, Legacy does the bulk of the mod work here. Both he & Chic John are free to take whatever action they deem necessary. When I want to do something, I make sure to ask Leg first.

**********************************************

Good idea. Leg is fine, and so is John. Never had any complaint about them.

**********************************************

The idea to limit posters to a thread a day came from me, but it was something both of us agreed would be a good idea. People were already complaining about being inundated with threads, and we thought it'd be a good idea to try something during the almost football-free period between the draft and training camp, when more people tend to visit this board.

***********************************************

I don't care about where the idea came from. I'm not complaining about the restriction

to one thread a day. It is fine, unless you let libs violate the rule, but not anybody else.

***********************************************

And I think it's working well. Yesterday, I looked at an older page of this board and saw eight threads with no responses, but the first page only had two goose egg threads. There were several threads with more than fifty responses and one with well over a hundred.

***********************************************

It's childish to count responses. Libs won't discuss what they don't like, and that's criticism of the

Obama admin.

In fact, it seems to be a collective decision. And, if a new thread they don't like IS discussed,

like with BallPeen, all of a sudden libs go berserk, and get hateful and resent T and Peen just

for expressing their opinion.

Gosh, Al. See the problem? Ask Leg or John.

************************************************

You seem to be the only one complaining. You're also involved in most of the personal flame wars and just today criticized another poster for starting a thread you didn't like.

************************************************

Yes, because I am also the one catching hell, along with T or Steve or anybody else.

Even JOHN caught a little hell for a conservative opinion a long while ago.

That's not true. I criticized him for smarting off to me and then posting reading material to your thread

for reading material.

Should I say it again? or what? Get it now? It isn't that I didn't like it, but I didn't see why

you didn't man up and tell him to post reading material in your reading material thread.

OH, let me guess, the liberal's mod - that was okay because it was him. But, if it was

me or T or Steve or now, 'Peen, you'd have a hissy fit.

Do...you...see...what....the....problem....is....here? You play favorites. No wonder a few libs wanted

you to be a mod.

*********************************

It seems like you're more interested in discussing the politics of this board than actual politics.

**********************************

Wait. T started a thead about politics. And T and Peen were attacked because they posted it.

Seems to me you're the libs mod and you take that to heart. As in, biased.

***********************************

Just try to not let it take over every one of your posts.

***********************************

Yes, your highness.

************************************

As to the civilian security thingy, Heck answered your question two months ago. I recommend you check that out.

*************************************

I recommend you read what the real answer I was wanting. I posted it.

Then try to learn to be fair in your criticism. You are throwing your weight around

only vs conservatives or anyone who won't agree with you.

I recommend you be a little quiet and think about that.

calfoxwc

You misinpret, Dan, and it isn't all your fault.

I meant only that I know the answer is not a simple liberal defense of Obama,

that Obama spoke of more things about the civilian national security corps than

just Americorps.

But it is very, very troubling that Obama also said, he wanted the civilian national defense corps

to be as powerful and well funded as our military. Doesn't that send up at least a tiny, eesy weensie

little itsy bitsy red flag? AT ALL ?

THAT is sure the heyl not "helping returning veterans get proper health care".

So, Dan, what IS YOUR take on the national security force?

ballpeen

How about if we just said, instead, it was like the Union army stomping your Confederate asses.

Is that the best name calling you have??? Geesh....you will never make it as a liberal.....oh....I was born in Ohio so I guess I am as northern as you my friend. Maybe more since you are a Californian.

You guys are fun to talk with even if not very engaging.

"We stomped you man"

LOL

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
Is that the best name calling you have??? Geesh....you will never make it as a liberal.....

Ba dum CHING! Should I not forget to tip my waitress, 'peen?

Show me where I "called you a name"...

Thank you to saying that, ballpeen. It does put your Jews-in-the-20's reference into perspective. You people are too much with you Nazi references. You give less thought to the families of the 6 mil Jews who died at Nazi hands than you do to a fertilized egg. And our morality and priorities are out there...
How about if we just said, instead, it was like the Union army stomping your Confederate asses.

@ballpeen said:
oh....I was born in Ohio so I guess I am as northern as you my friend.

So was I. Doesn't mean you're not a hick at heart (oops, a name was called).

@ballpeen said:
Maybe more since you are a Californian.

I love how living in California is some sort of pejorative...

ballpeen

mz. said:
I love how living in California is some sort of pejorative...

No more than living in Tennessee or Alabama.

My advice to you is get over it.

? mz.

@ballpeen said:
My advice to you is get over it.

Living in California, or the Holocaust?

heckofajobbrownie

Ballpeen, I want to give you one last try on this. Legacy was similarly concerned about this quote, so I posted the whole speech and showed how its meaning was completely taken out of context (by loons) and that what he's talking about is really nothing new, and certainly nothing resembling the Hitler youth or Nazi brownshirts, and just how deranged you'd have to be to think such a thing. And Leg, much to his credit, said, "Oh, okay. That's not what he meant. I feel better." He actually changed his mind when presented with new information. If only some people in here could learn that same lesson. Maybe Leg could teach a class.

Take a look at the speech again, and tell me what you think is scary about ...volunteering:

"Today, AmeriCorps -- our nation's network of local, state, and national service programs -- has 75,000 slots. And I know firsthand the quality of these programs. My wife, Michelle, once left her job at a law firm and at City Hall to be a founding director of an AmeriCorps program in Chicago that trains young people for careers in public service. And these programs invest Americans in their communities and their country. They tap America's greatest resource -- our citizens.

And that's why as president, I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their efforts connected to a common purpose. People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem -- they are the answer.

So we are going to send -- we're going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an Energy Corps to conduct renewable energy and environmental cleanup projects in their neighborhoods all across the country. We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered, and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy.

We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where Americans can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment, and skill sets; you'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities. This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda, and make their own change from the bottom up."

Mr. T

Expand AmeriCorps from 75000 to 250000 annual slots;; Establish a Summer of ... turns to tattle-tale squads, forced service abroad

http://www.blog.rockthevote.com/2009/03/ta...e-give-act.html

Take it for what its worth, dont spit while facing the wind either.

can anyone answer what Forced Volunteerism is? left is right? right is left? up is down? down is up?

calfoxwc

So we are going to send -- we're going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people.

************************************************

Yeah, get at those young people. Get em on board the Dem free ticket to utopia train.

But seriously, who is going to PAY for all this eloquent universal domination of the gov.?

? mz.

@calfoxwc said:
So we are going to send -- we're going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people.
************************************************

Yeah, get at those young people. Get em on board the Dem free ticket to utopia train.

So college grads mentoring, presumably, at-riskish kids is now a bad thing.

How dare we!

heckofajobbrownie

ballpeen, does this speech scare you? Does the idea of expanding AmericaCorps scare you? Could anyone with half a brain read that speech and come away thinking he's proposing something that could morph into Obama's version of the Hitler youth? Would anyone worth their salt take the effort to move their hands and type something so stupid?

Doesn't it make you feel better knowing that you were frightened by lunatics about nothing? What a load this must be off your shoulders - he's only talking about getting young people to help with the elderly, and with disaster relief, or homeless people, in health care, etc.

Amazing what not getting your information from cranks can do.

calfoxwc

So, a civilain national security corps is going to

help young people with mentoring, and help old people?

But the corps is going to be as powerful and well equipped,

as funded and /// armed? as our MILITARY?

I'd like to hear this one explained more time. I don't get it.

heckofajobbrownie

You're right. You don't.

He never said they'd be armed, or as well-equipped as the military. You're just making that part up. You should stop doing that.

He's talking about the foreign service, and the Peace Corps, and the dozens of other organizations that assist the government/military in achieving our national security goals. He's talking about a renewed emphasis on soft power.

It's really not that hard to understand if you can read.

Mr. T

Unbelievable or is it believeable?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14exp...tml?_r=3&hp

IMPERIAL, Calif. — Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor

The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.

It is all quite a step up from the square knot.

The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.

“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County, whose life clock, he says, is set around the Explorers events he helps run. “It fits right in with the honor and bravery of the Boy Scouts.”

The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out “active shooters,” like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.

“Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.”

One participant, Felix Arce, 16, said he liked “the discipline of the program,” which was something he said his life was lacking. “I want to be a lawyer, and this teaches you about how crimes are committed,” he said.

Cathy Noriego, also 16, said she was attracted by the guns. The group uses compressed-air guns — known as airsoft guns, which fire tiny plastic pellets — in the training exercises, and sometimes they shoot real guns on a closed range.

“I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”

If there are critics of the content or purpose of the law enforcement training, they have not made themselves known to the Explorers’ national organization in Irving, Tex., or to the volunteers here on the ground, national officials and local leaders said. That said, the Explorers have faced problems over the years. There have been numerous cases over the last three decades in which police officers supervising Explorers have been charged, in civil and criminal cases, with sexually abusing them.

Is this what your defending?

? mz.

This group T mentions is evidently an offshoot of the Boy Scouts of America.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3214975n

ballpeen

@heckofajobbrownie said:
Ballpeen, I want to give you one last try on this.

Gee, thanks.....or what??

I have no problem with people helping others.

It's that whole part about have a civilian corp. as well equipped as the military.

But later on after a quick skim I noticed people saying half brained posters etc.

Maybe you and Leg need to be concerned with quotes like that.

Off for something important...golf.

Mr. T

Well dan, atleast we know who all the Haters are.

Whats next? Find common ground, hold hands, sing camp songs, bake some cookies and drink some milk? or do they prefer kool-Aid?

Goes to show how your post on the sticky was even seen, I looked but there was so much jibba jabba i must of missed it.

Regardless, I hold no grudges over what anyone says, they are yours and mine good neighbors. they just need to crawl out from underneath the rock with the big "O" on it.

calfoxwc

It's that whole part about have a civilian corp. as well equipped as the military. BAllpeen

****************************

As well equipped as the military, Heck.

Now, what equipment does the military have, Heck?

National security force.

National security force and equipped as the military, Heck.

Answer the question, stop dodging and indulging in personal attacks.

You really don't think anyone who disagrees with you can read? Really?

Perhaps you would like to try some legit conversation on what's said,

Lord knows you dance around issues and divert attention all too often to

what you think you CAN defend. You should stop that.