Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp
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Cribbs should get a hike, he's a great player and I love to watch him and am pleased we have him. But I don't think Mangini is a man to back down. I'd say he is ten times more stubborn than your average mule and won't back down from the current stance. Whether or not he makes a good decision, he sticks by them. I think this is something we have to get used to for the next few years.
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http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/
Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp
Posted by Mike Florio on May 18, 2009, 7:06 a.m.
The problem is that Cribbs inked a long-term deal before he became a high-end return specialist. And so he’s under contract for four more seasons, with base salaries of $620,000 in 2009, $635,000 in 2010, $650,000 in 2011, and $790,000 in 2012.
He also can earn up to $400,000 in incentives each year, and he’s eligible for $25,000 in annual workout bonuses.
Agent J.R. Rickert declined comment on the situation, but he told Taylor that a statement regarding the situation will be released tonight.
The problem is one that has become all-too familiar for Mangini-coached teams. Cribbs claims that he was promised that he “would be taken care of” after the 2008 season by owner Randy Lerner, former coach Romeo Crennel, and former G.M. Phil Savage. To date, no progress has been made in that direction.
I agree the salary doesn't compute to his production but listing his yearly salary isn't a true measurement because he got $2 million up front in this deal. I love Cribbs, but doesn't anybody ever honor a contract anymore. I think Cribbs signed this contract, with his agents advice and in good faith. I think he was very happy when he put that $2 million in his pocket, but now things don't compute to him. Didn't he opp for security when he took the money up front instead of non guaranteed year to year contracts with a higher yearly dollar amount. I could see the current administration putting in some additional incentives but again, he wanted the guaranteed bucks up front.
Hey, I love Cribbs, as I said, and I think things will get worked out, but this isn't his rookie contract. He pushed for a deal with up front money he wanted for his family security and got it and signed it.
Let's go Josh, honor it.
I agree the salary doesn't compute to his production but listing his yearly salary isn't a true measurement because he got $2 million up front in this deal. I love Cribbs, but doesn't anybody ever honor a contract anymore. I think Cribbs signed this contract, with his agents advice and in good faith. I think he was very happy when he put that $2 million in his pocket, but now things don't compute to him. Didn't he opp for security when he took the money up front instead of non guaranteed year to year contracts with a higher yearly dollar amount. I could see the current administration putting in some additional incentives but again, he wanted the guaranteed bucks up front.
Hey, I love Cribbs, as I said, and I think things will get worked out, but this isn't his rookie contract. He pushed for a deal with up front money he wanted for his family security and got it and signed it.
Let's go Josh, honor it.
Do you know what the numbers were on this nonguaranteed contract you're sure he was offered? You really think it would have fairly compensated him?
I understand the argument that guys should play out the deal they signed when you are talking about a superstar signing a huge deal and then coming back later because his ego cant handle that other guys are getting paid more. But Cribbs is going to be paid about 2/3 of the MEDIAN salary on the team. We pay over half the roster more than we pay Cribbs. Think about this in your own office; would you show up happy when you're one of the best producers for your company and every new hire is getting paid at least 50% more than you? Me neither.
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I agree the salary doesn't compute to his production but listing his yearly salary isn't a true measurement because he got $2 million up front in this deal. I love Cribbs, but doesn't anybody ever honor a contract anymore. I think Cribbs signed this contract, with his agents advice and in good faith. I think he was very happy when he put that $2 million in his pocket, but now things don't compute to him. Didn't he opp for security when he took the money up front instead of non guaranteed year to year contracts with a higher yearly dollar amount. I could see the current administration putting in some additional incentives but again, he wanted the guaranteed bucks up front.
Hey, I love Cribbs, as I said, and I think things will get worked out, but this isn't his rookie contract. He pushed for a deal with up front money he wanted for his family security and got it and signed it.
Let's go Josh, honor it.
Do you know what the numbers were on this nonguaranteed contract you're sure he was offered? You really think it would have fairly compensated him?
I understand the argument that guys should play out the deal they signed when you are talking about a superstar signing a huge deal and then coming back later because his ego cant handle that other guys are getting paid more. But Cribbs is going to be paid about 2/3 of the MEDIAN salary on the team. We pay over half the roster more than we pay Cribbs. Think about this in your own office; would you show up happy when you're one of the best producers for your company and every new hire is getting paid at least 50% more than you? Me neither.
Do you know what the numbers were on this nonguaranteed contract you're sure he was offered? You really think it would have fairly compensated him?
I understand the argument that guys should play out the deal they signed when you are talking about a superstar signing a huge deal and then coming back later because his ego cant handle that other guys are getting paid more. But Cribbs is going to be paid about 2/3 of the MEDIAN salary on the team. We pay over half the roster more than we pay Cribbs. Think about this in your own office; would you show up happy when you're one of the best producers for your company and every new hire is getting paid at least 50% more than you? Me neither.
And let's not pretend that there is no advantage to a team from a cap management perspective to give up front money and longer term deals over which they can amortize the bonus money paid.
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I agree the salary doesn't compute to his production but listing his yearly salary isn't a true measurement because he got $2 million up front in this deal. I love Cribbs, but doesn't anybody ever honor a contract anymore. I think Cribbs signed this contract, with his agents advice and in good faith. I think he was very happy when he put that $2 million in his pocket, but now things don't compute to him. Didn't he opp for security when he took the money up front instead of non guaranteed year to year contracts with a higher yearly dollar amount. I could see the current administration putting in some additional incentives but again, he wanted the guaranteed bucks up front.
Hey, I love Cribbs, as I said, and I think things will get worked out, but this isn't his rookie contract. He pushed for a deal with up front money he wanted for his family security and got it and signed it.
Let's go Josh, honor it.
Do you know what the numbers were on this nonguaranteed contract you're sure he was offered? You really think it would have fairly compensated him?
I understand the argument that guys should play out the deal they signed when you are talking about a superstar signing a huge deal and then coming back later because his ego cant handle that other guys are getting paid more. But Cribbs is going to be paid about 2/3 of the MEDIAN salary on the team. We pay over half the roster more than we pay Cribbs. Think about this in your own office; would you show up happy when you're one of the best producers for your company and every new hire is getting paid at least 50% more than you? Me neither.
Do you know what the numbers were on this nonguaranteed contract you're sure he was offered? You really think it would have fairly compensated him?
I understand the argument that guys should play out the deal they signed when you are talking about a superstar signing a huge deal and then coming back later because his ego cant handle that other guys are getting paid more. But Cribbs is going to be paid about 2/3 of the MEDIAN salary on the team. We pay over half the roster more than we pay Cribbs. Think about this in your own office; would you show up happy when you're one of the best producers for your company and every new hire is getting paid at least 50% more than you? Me neither.
I actually agree with you and in most cases take the side of the player. In this case, with Cribbs having received a new deal last year, I am not as eager to jump in to the renegotiation mode.
I am not against it, but I don't agree with the holdout part at this point.
It is the only card he holds to be honest, and a weak one since 4 years remain and think it is far to early to make that play.
The fact he is holding out tells me we have talked to him(his agent) and they don't like the numbers being discussed.
I don't buy we told him or his agent we would take care of him....really, any attorney worth a salt knows how that ends up....you know that.
If he is going to hold out, it might as well be just before real camp when he has a little more leverage.
The Browns have all the leverage. They hold the contract he eagerly signed and have a new coach who is going to start talking about players not in camp risk getting to far behind to matter. In Cribbs case, that does matter since the team was looking at some new roles for him.
I think he is receiving poor counsel.
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how is a KR/PR and tackler one of our most productive?
i love the kid, but damn, you'd think he was our entire offense and defense......
Tupe: conversely, how should the rest of the players feel if they're getting paid less than a ST'er?
how is a KR/PR and tackler one of our most productive?
i love the kid, but damn, you'd think he was our entire offense and defense......
Tupe: conversely, how should the rest of the players feel if they're getting paid less than a ST'er?
granted, this article is a year old now, but give it a read for some insight into his value (that ignores his coverage abilities or the idea of incorporating him more into the offense/defense)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=537
edit: he signed his last deal before playing the season described in the article
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Losing Cribbs would be devastating. He is one of the best multi-purpose threats in the NFL, and can be used on offense, special teams, and even on defense as a corner. He is a premier athlete.
Mangini has a history of treating players badly. He needs to stop that now, or Cribbs will be elsewhere scoring touchdowns.
Meanwhile, the Bungles are still awful! Check out this blog I found about them, it is absolutely hilarious.
Losing Cribbs would be devastating. He is one of the best multi-purpose threats in the NFL, and can be used on offense, special teams, and even on defense as a corner. He is a premier athlete.
Mangini has a history of treating players badly. He needs to stop that now, or Cribbs will be elsewhere scoring touchdowns.
I wondered why all those Jets followed Mangini here. Must be because he treated them so bad. Guys with simular reps; Belichick, Parcels and Tom Coughlin all have one thing in common....................their winners.
I would think that is more of a media perception then a rep earned by abusing players and screwing them around about their contracts. So, let me get this, Mangini is showing disrespect because Savage said he would look at Cribbs's contract. A contract Cribbs signed with a $2 million bonus guaranteed money up front without having his arm twisted. One he noted at the time he wanted for his family's future security.
How's Mangini the bad guy here?
But, the bottom line is Cribbs may stay away from mini camp, but he will be there for regular camp and he will be there suited up when the season starts. This same situation is played out by every team every year with one or more players and it isn't really a big deal.
I think Cribbs has outplayed his contract and I surely believe this team needs him, but he should be pissing on his agent who got a percentage. This wasn't his rookie contract that he outplayed, this is an extention with a generious catch up bonus that he signed. Maybe his agent needs to do a little better job for him and get some incentives added for playing time and production and pro bowls.
It will get worked out and Cribbs will play. Might not be the happiest camper but he will honor it and in the end, I believe the Browns will do right by him.
But, Mangini's fault? He treats his players bad? How the hell did that get in this conversation about Cribbs? Wasn't Cribbs the first guy to go into his office and sit and talk to him and said what all positive things about the guy?
Mangini's fault because he has a rep for treating people bad?................................LOL
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Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
3 seasons until our new head coach, let's hope they get it right this time. -
Losing Cribbs would be devastating. He is one of the best multi-purpose threats in the NFL, and can be used on offense, special teams, and even on defense as a corner. He is a premier athlete.
Mangini has a history of treating players badly. He needs to stop that now, or Cribbs will be elsewhere scoring touchdowns.
Meanwhile, the Bungles are still awful! Check out this blog I found about them, it is absolutely hilarious.
Losing Cribbs would be devastating. He is one of the best multi-purpose threats in the NFL, and can be used on offense, special teams, and even on defense as a corner. He is a premier athlete.
Mangini has a history of treating players badly. He needs to stop that now, or Cribbs will be elsewhere scoring touchdowns.
Meanwhile, the Bungles are still awful! Check out this blog I found about them, it is absolutely hilarious.
How is Cribbs going to be elsewhere scoring TDs? He's under contract for 4 more years. He isn't going anywhere unless the front office chooses that route.
IMO Cribbs will probably get a new deal, AFTER this season. AFTER Mangini incorporates him more into the offense, and possibly defense. AFTER Mangini sees what else Cribbs can do for the Browns. But I have to agree with Kokinis' stance. Why should a new front office, for any team, be held liable for promises made by the outgoing regime? IF a promise was made by Lerner, then its Lerner treating Cribbs bad, not Mangini.
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Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
I think you nailed it Tobalaz!
Another thing, it's sort of funny how RAC/Savage would make contract promises KNOWING they were on the HOT SEAT and may not even be here to deal with it the next year... "I'll fix the next guys!"
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Sivlerback DPOY said:
Cribbs...what a d-bag.....He is such a moron and a roid monkey....
Honestly, all the rivalry stuff aside, this is extrememly embarrassing for the Browns. I guarantee this will have a trickle down effect with his teammates. I'd be embarrassed as hell to have this guy as a teammate.......
No one cares how much you like cock, piss off.
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Sivlerback DPOY said:
Cribbs...what a d-bag.....He is such a moron and a roid monkey....
Honestly, all the rivalry stuff aside, this is extrememly embarrassing for the Browns. I guarantee this will have a trickle down effect with his teammates. I'd be embarrassed as hell to have this guy as a teammate.......
No one cares how much you like cock, piss off.
AdaM said:
No one cares how much you like cock, piss off.Just mocking the same things Browns fans say about every Steeler...
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Yet ANOTHER troll added to my IGNORE list. Always trying to change a Thread into a PISSBURGH thread.
Nice NOT seeing yinz anymore!
THIS IS WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE NOW:
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Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
Absolutely, my point exactly...................................and then they kick Mangini in the ass because of he's noted for treating players bad.......................WTF. How's any of this on Mangini, he just wants to put his new system in at mini camp.
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how is a KR/PR and tackler one of our most productive?
i love the kid, but damn, you'd think he was our entire offense and defense......
Tupe: conversely, how should the rest of the players feel if they're getting paid less than a ST'er?
how is a KR/PR and tackler one of our most productive?
i love the kid, but damn, you'd think he was our entire offense and defense......
Tupe: conversely, how should the rest of the players feel if they're getting paid less than a ST'er?
Let's ask them. Many of them are paid less than our long snapper right now. He makes 2-3x what Cribbs does. Cribbs also makes less than 46 kickers and punters did last year. I sincerely doubt that the team would revolt if Cribbs made as much as Zastudil. I'm not saying he should be making starting LT money, but he gets peanuts relative to the rest of the league.
According to John Taylor, all Cribbs is looking for is incentives based on his offensive production. He signed a deal that made sense for an inexperienced KR. If he continues to be the best at that position, the best ST player overall in the entire league, he gets the same lousy contract that you all want him stuck with. If he becomes a valuable member of the offense, he gets paid for it. What's the problem? What am I missing? You're really attached to Lerner's profit margins?
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Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
Wasn't Cribbs thrilled with that 2 mill last season until Hester got an even bigger contract?
I love the kid and want to see him stick around, but shouldn't he play one season on EM and THEN ask for more money depending on how much more time he's seeing the field?
That's my thought. Personally, I don't agree with all the "re-negotiating" existing contracts that is going on these days, but it IS happening. In Cribb's case, his limited role on special teams does not call for a re-negotiation. Now, if Mangini plays him extensively at safety or elsewhere in addition to special teams duty, or plays him as a regular on defense and/or offense, then I would agree the contract should be looked at AFTER this season due to full time playing status, if that's what happens.
The Browns have upheld their end of the signed contract...Cribbs needs to honor his signature until it runs out or there is significant change in his playing status.
Mike
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Cribbs plays a dime-a-dozen position ... I think PR/KR's carry P & K's luggage on away trips.
Is this guy kidding?
Yawwwnnnn ... someone wake me when the kicker farts.
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Cribbs isn't going anywhere nor is he going to hold out, this is only a mini camp and the first step in renegotiation. He had to do something to show the Browns he means it and hence I'm rather sure there will be some sort of resolution.
I would expect that he should be persuaded to wait another year and see how his performance translates this year in a larger role, especially since it appears he will be a big part of something, be it out of the backfield or on defense.
IMO, sit down and talk about incentives based on this year and if he meets certain criteria next year they can go to town. He should have no problem with that and neither should the Browns.
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how is a KR/PR and tackler one of our most productive?
i love the kid, but damn, you'd think he was our entire offense and defense......
Tupe: conversely, how should the rest of the players feel if they're getting paid less than a ST'er?
Let's ask them. Many of them are paid less than our long snapper right now. He makes 2-3x what Cribbs does. Cribbs also makes less than 46 kickers and punters did last year. I sincerely doubt that the team would revolt if Cribbs made as much as Zastudil. I'm not saying he should be making starting LT money, but he gets peanuts relative to the rest of the league.
According to John Taylor, all Cribbs is looking for is incentives based on his offensive production. He signed a deal that made sense for an inexperienced KR. If he continues to be the best at that position, the best ST player overall in the entire league, he gets the same lousy contract that you all want him stuck with. If he becomes a valuable member of the offense, he gets paid for it. What's the problem? What am I missing? You're really attached to Lerner's profit margins?
Let's ask them. Many of them are paid less than our long snapper right now. He makes 2-3x what Cribbs does. Cribbs also makes less than 46 kickers and punters did last year............ What's the problem? What am I missing? You're really attached to Lerner's profit margins?
What you are missing is the fact that Cribbs took his money up front. Don't look at what someone is making this year. Cribbs wanted guaranteed money so he took $2 million up front. That is the choice he decided was best.
Others take a chance with larger yearly salaries of non guaranteed money, but there's a chance they will get cut and not see the money. Again, Cribbs took it up front and he also gets OTA bonuses and does have some incentives built into his contract. You and others are quoting base salary.
That being said, it really isn't the big deal some try to make it to be. He will decide to come in eventually and he will play. He is under contract. I also do believe the Brown's will take care of him. Remember, they have a bunch of draft choices to get under contract before camp opens and that takes great pains to get done because everyone is looking at what the guy above and below him get.
Josh needs to honor his contract and keep discussions open and it will get done.
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I am sick of guys who sign a contract then want out of it. Seriously..the ink is barely dry on the contract he signed. He felt it was a good contract when he signed it. be a man and honor it. Play your contract out or stay home. I love cribbs..but not so much right now. i understand asking for a new deal.. but you show up and play/practice showing you respect the team. returners are too easily replaced..although not pro bowlers... but kick returners dont have a whole lot of leverage.. This is not the way to show the new regime your a team guy.... does he want to be a reciever? does he want the coaches to give him a chance there? This is not how you do it.. it's just stupid.
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