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Honest no fanboy discussion about our front 7

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  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @ghoolie said:

    I never said Lynch needs more time. I said, you don't have anything to judge him on. If he busts, he busts. I am not often wrong, but we will see. I would be more worried about the Steelers sending Kizer along the RGIII path in a few weeks.

    You make it sound like the Steelers are a defense to be feared. That has not been the case in quite some time.  I would fear BR and AB going off on the Browns more than I would worry about their defense.  

    I think the Steelers should more likely fear the Browns OL/run game....though, admittedly, our passing game is not at a point that it is a fearsome thing, no. 

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #48

    "On paper" we easily have one of the berst OLs in the league... on paper....

    @the-gipper said:

    You make it sound like the Steelers are a defense to be feared. That has not been the case in quite some time.  I would fear BR and AB going off on the Browns more than I would worry about their defense.  

    I think the Steelers should more likely fear the Browns OL/run game....though, admittedly, our passing game is not at a point that it is a fearsome thing, no. 

    It's been five seasons since they had the top rated D. Since then they've been in the 2nd quartile by most measures and that ain't nothing, but yes, they have committed more $$$ to their Offense in this phase.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #49

    Was it last year or the year before that pgh had the worst line in football?

  • GhoolieG Ghoolie

    @clevfan4life said:

    You're not watching the games evidently. Garett is doing things in the pass rush already that we haven't seen from a Browns pass rusher in........I dunno maybe before I was born so ur looking at the 80's. I've never seen a Browns pass rusher with his moves. You know full well I was critical of Garetts ability to hold up at the edge from his college tape. I've yet to see him moved when he planted. I've seen him guess wrong and get pinched to the wrong side of the play, ok...that happens to everyone. 

    I watched the Chargers/Rams games yesterday and keened in on my boy Bosa. Played pretty decent..had a nice strip of Goff that Ingram returned for a touchdown. But in comparison Garrett was more consistently nearer to Winston throughout the game than Bosa was around Goff. Bosa got pulled earlier tho and he might also be pedaling a little bit with a finger injury. But in all seriousness Ghoolie if you don't see Garrett's potential "already", I'm not sure you're qualified to judge football players period. Garrett so far has been taking 1st string offensive lineman and walking them back off the line consistently. How is he a cunt exactly? He's already showing more strength and stoutness at the point that Sheard ever did for us...and I was a huge fan of sheard, I was livid when we ditched the 4-3 after one year and converted him to an OLB'er. 

    With all due respect. All that observation is noise. He needs to make fucking plays. You don't win games by having nicer moves than anyone before you. 

    Look, you know more about football than I do. Can you please explain the scoreboard to me? Just how many style points go into a team's score?

    W wargograw wrote on
    #50

    @ghoolie said:

    With all due respect. All that observation is noise. He needs to make fucking plays. You don't win games by having nicer moves than anyone before you. 

    Look, you know more about football than I do. Can you please explain the scoreboard to me? 

    Sure. In all three of our games, it has revealed we had more points. HTH

  • GhoolieG Ghoolie

    @hoorta said:

    Hahahaha. Sez the guy who pronounced Pac-Man Lynch as the second coming in Denver. You know- the guy who can't beat out Trevor Semen for the starting job? You know- the guy who's so cock sure Garrett is already a bust after 3 preseason games, when it took another #1 overall pick (Clowney) three seasons to reach his full potential?   

    I'll sure as hell trust HOFer Bruce Smith's opinion of Myles over yours. So don't give me some BS spew that Lynch "needs more time" when you're proclaining Garrett to be a bust after 3 preseason games. BTW, Hue is still coaching the Browns Nostradamus.

    I never said Lynch needs more time. I said, you don't have anything to judge him on. If he busts, he busts. I am not often wrong, but we will see. I would be more worried about the Steelers sending Kizer along the RGIII path in a few weeks.

    L LondonBrown wrote on
    #51

    @ghoolie said:

    I never said Lynch needs more time. I said, you don't have anything to judge him on. If he busts, he busts. I am not often wrong, but we will see. I would be more worried about the Steelers sending Kizer along the RGIII path in a few weeks.

    What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

    hoortaH GhoolieG 2 Replies
  • L LondonBrown

    @ghoolie said:

    I never said Lynch needs more time. I said, you don't have anything to judge him on. If he busts, he busts. I am not often wrong, but we will see. I would be more worried about the Steelers sending Kizer along the RGIII path in a few weeks.

    What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

    hoortaH hoorta wrote on
    #52

    @londonbrown said:

    What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

    Ghoolie changes direction like the wind. We have him painted in a corner with his opinion on Lynch. "Can't be evaluated yet" after one full season, but Garrett's a bust before the season starts. ?

    GhoolieG 1 Reply
  • C Clevfan4life

    Really gip? 

    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #53

    @clevfan4life said:

    Really gip? 

    Really what?  The Browns OL will be one of the best...talentwise in the league. Everyone has said so. They just have to play up to their talent.

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @clevfan4life said:

    Really gip? 

    Really what?  The Browns OL will be one of the best...talentwise in the league. Everyone has said so. They just have to play up to their talent.

    T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #54

    @the-gipper said:

    Really what?  The Browns OL will be one of the best...talentwise in the league. Everyone has said so. They just have to play up to their talent.

    All in all they protected fairly well in the Tampa game. But I want to see better running lanes opened in future games so we have some balance.

  • The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #55

    @boo-fagley said:

    2nd round pick Kizer sitting and the first pick in the draft sitting, is not the same. Some wanted Tribsky instead of Garret.

    Kizer beat out Oiswieller, Tribsky could not beat out Glennon.

    Or...as I said, its a case of the Bears wanting to bring MT along slowly...to give him some time to sit and learn.....which is usually the way of things.

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #56

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    hoortaH The GipperT 2 Replies
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    hoortaH hoorta wrote on
    #57

    @tour2ma said:

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    Yes, but didn't Goff sit for a while? (We may have dodged a bullet there.) MHO is Hue's qb eye is 1\2 blind, I just hope Kizer was mostly Sashi & DePo's idea. BTW Wentz only started because of an injury. Bradford got traded to recoup a first round pick.

    L 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #58

    2016:

    • Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...
    • Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

    2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

    2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

    2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

    2011: Newton started.

    2010: Bradford started.

    2009: Stafford started.

    I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    T 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #59

    @tour2ma said:

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    In the course of NFL history it is usual.  It has become less usual lately, as, I think, teams have become more desperate and less patient to wait for their high draft pick QBs to prove themselves. See the 2017 Cleveland Browns.

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @tour2ma said:

    Usually? Not in the recent history of Top 2 picks.

    Yes, but didn't Goff sit for a while? (We may have dodged a bullet there.) MHO is Hue's qb eye is 1\2 blind, I just hope Kizer was mostly Sashi & DePo's idea. BTW Wentz only started because of an injury. Bradford got traded to recoup a first round pick.

    L LondonBrown wrote on
    #60

    @hoorta said:

    , I just hope Kizer was mostly Sashi & DePo's idea

    Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good. 

  • L LondonBrown

    @hoorta said:

    , I just hope Kizer was mostly Sashi & DePo's idea

    Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good. 

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #61

    @londonbrown said:

    Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good. 

    I'll take that bet for a pint... 😉 I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

    First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

    Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    L 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    2016:

    • Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...
    • Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

    2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

    2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

    2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

    2011: Newton started.

    2010: Bradford started.

    2009: Stafford started.

    I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

    T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #62

    @tour2ma said:

    2016:

    • Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...
    • Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

    2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

    2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

    2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

    2011: Newton started.

    2010: Bradford started.

    2009: Stafford started.

    I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

    My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?😆

    hoortaH 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @londonbrown said:

    Be very surprised, "analytically" Kizer didnt make the grade. Think he was more the eye test as when he flashed he looked very very good. 

    I'll take that bet for a pint... 😉 I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

    First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

    Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

    L LondonBrown wrote on
    #63

    @tour2ma said:

    I'll take that bet for a pint... 😉 I think both went hand-in-hand over two seasons... and then into The Combine.

    First there's his 2015 data which better matched that season's eye results. Then I think his 2016 results can be adjusted in light of the decline in the team around him... something which can be quantified.

    Analytically I think his biggest deficiency was his release time/ the length of his throwing motion. And it was this that he worked hardest on addressing during his pre-draft training... or at least was most successful addressing. If there's a key to the possibility of him being a 2nd round steal, it is his improvement in this area.

    Pint it is 😉

    Analytics guide I had pre draft, what you said were his analytical issues are just eye test, analytics is success against historical data  

    IMG_9629.PNG

    IMG_9630.PNG

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #64

    Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

    It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • T TexasAg1969

    @tour2ma said:

    2016:

    • Goff did sit, but because he had real issues adapting to play calling and getting under Center. So that's one...
    • Wentz flat won the job. He made Bradford expendable plus Philly still had Chase Daniels as backup.

    2015: Both Winston and Mariotta started.

    2014: Bortles (a #3) started.

    2012: Both Luck and Griffin started.

    2011: Newton started.

    2010: Bradford started.

    2009: Stafford started.

    I think that pretty much covers recent history of 1's and 2's.... and a #3...

    My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?😆

    hoortaH hoorta wrote on
    #65

    @texasag1969 said:

    My you have really been able to block out that #22 overall in 2014. PTSD?😆

    We were just talking about QBs picked in the top 5 or so Ag. 🙂   Three QBs with the #22 pick- three flops. If we ever end up there again- I say trade out of it.  

    @tour2ma said:

    Interesting results, but I don't see anything about evaluating the talent around him... that said, I'll buy.

    It is interesting that his Ideal Scheme is Coryell... emphasis on vertical game is one thing it has in common with Hue.

    Ha my "Eye Test" analysis of Kizer jives with that bottom line rating of his potential London posted. I absolutely hated the pick, and if you remember- I was pretty vocal about it.   Didn't like at all anything I saw of him at Notre Dame.   I hope he proves me wrong, I'm tired of the QB revolving door- but if Deshone bombs- it's "Suck for Sam".  Though I think at this point the Jets are playing that game. 

  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #66

    How does pff say our o line is 2nd best when the d line has approx x100 talent?

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @londonbrown said:

    What? Less than 10 days ago were adamant Hue was a jack off because he wasn't starting Kizer !?

    Ghoolie changes direction like the wind. We have him painted in a corner with his opinion on Lynch. "Can't be evaluated yet" after one full season, but Garrett's a bust before the season starts. ?

    GhoolieG Ghoolie wrote on
    #67

    @hoorta said:

    Ghoolie changes direction like the wind. We have him painted in a corner with his opinion on Lynch. "Can't be evaluated yet" after one full season, but Garrett's a bust before the season starts. ?

    I NEVER changed direction. YOu want me to credit Hue for having to learn what I told everyone on draft day? Hue IS a jackoff. I never said Kizer is the answer. What I said was, he is the ONLY QB who has the potential to be the answer, the franchise guy. This isn't about endorsing Kizer, it is about this fuck off organization not knowking how to make the right call from the beginning.

    Look, you Clevtards, The entire Browns organization is doing NOW, after wasting how many weeks, what I said they should be doing from day one. Indstead of sending a strong message from DAY ONE....................... Kizer is our guy.................. Hue instead says.................... Kizer is our guy because the fuck holes I started looked like shit............ just like Ghoolie told us.

    The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL
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