Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp
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I do support him Tom. I don't have a problem if we give him more money. I also don't have a problem if the browns say they can't do it anytime soon.
The team was talking an expanded role....possibly on D.
Right now is a pretty important time for him in my opinion. A time for him to shine and really show he is worth more cash.
By sitting out, is becomes a Northcutt of sorts.
The kid is blowing it.
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Honor his contract and work the proper way to get it redone, through his agent, not the media.
BTW, his agent today said he isn't looking for Hester money, but something in the ballpark. So much for a few incentives.
After I closed my golf shop and retired I signed a contract with the USGA as a tournament official for $250 per event and expenses. Six months later I found out that guys were put on full time and paid a salary that had less qualifications, I honored my contract. My duties also got expanded because I styarted doing equipment tests due to changes in the USGA rules.
I was like an UDA because I didn't come up through the USGA ranks. I talked to my boss and my boss's boss and they agreed to providing me with a 4 week advance schedule and a quarterly bonus for each qtr I worked 6 or more events.
Point is Cribbs signed a contract he thought fair and he wanted, with quaranteed money up front, not yearly roster bonuses. I believe it was a 4 year extension to his existing contract, not a new contract. He also was awarded a pro bowl bonus after 2007 even though it was not in his contract as was Anderson (how much, I don't recall). He gets a $25,000 bonus for attending OTAs and he does have some incentives built into this contract.
Bottom line is if he does it the right way, Lerner and the Browns have proven to be more then responsive to player's contract demands. This organization can never be accused of being tight with their money. But, like Winslow, you don't keep giving guys a new contract every other year, especially when they take the money up front and agree to lower yearly non guaranteed salaries. I agree the player's have a short window to make money, but the team also has a budget and a salary cap to consider. When a team pays a player up front money, they can't get it back if the player underperforms. So, when a player agrees to that he should ask for more money if he outperforms the rest of the contract.
Remember contracts in the NFL don't mean crap, it's only the guaranteed money that matters. You can't ask for quaranteed money up front and then say you aren't making comparable money in salary to someone else.
As much as I like Josh Cribbs, he needs to show them on the field that he deserves a new contract and I'm sure the Browns will do right by him. You just can't ask every other year and do the make me happy or I'll stay home BS.
So what if your boss had been fired and then at the end of your quarter the USGA said "Thanks for working 6 events, but I dont know what bonus you are talking about."
The up front guaranteed money argument again? So if he was just getting that $333,333 prorated into his base salary each year you would be okay with his stance? What is the right way, because it sounds from his end that he's been trying the "right way" for a couple of years, and that he was reassured that they were going to step up for him.
I listened to this same debate for the last year regarding Jason Peters. Based on my experience, neither side here on this board is going to budge. But I suppose the debate is still worth having - that's almost all we can do.
So what if your boss had been fired and then at the end of your quarter the USGA said "Thanks for working 6 events, but I dont know what bonus you are talking about."
The up front guaranteed money argument again? So if he was just getting that $333,333 prorated into his base salary each year you would be okay with his stance? What is the right way, because it sounds from his end that he's been trying the "right way" for a couple of years, and that he was reassured that they were going to step up for him.
I listened to this same debate for the last year regarding Jason Peters. Based on my experience, neither side here on this board is going to budge. But I suppose the debate is still worth having - that's almost all we can do.
The difference is my boss didn't pay me $$$$ up front without even knowing if I was worth it or would deliver on it. Cribbs was a guy in 2006 that was just a kick returner and #4 or #5 receiver making the NFL minimum and he didn't finish out his rookie contract because the organization wanted to do right by him. He got $2 million up front guaranteed and 4 years added to his current contract. He wanted family security, in case of injury and took the money up front, which everybody knows would lower the yearly salary but he still had the money in case he got injured. That was his decision.
If they do a new contract now, it is like he got an additional $1 million each year because he signed the new contract in 2006.
Know, if his agent says he just wants to open lines of communications and start the process, then the Browns should listen and work out a deal to be effective after this season. If the Browns hold him hostage to the entire contract, then shame on them, but I really don't think that will be the case because Lerner has never done business that way. Reference what he did for Winslow, Bentley and others.
One thing people have to remember is that this isn't a situation unique to the Browns. It happens all over the league and these things get worked out. It is the business part of football. Cribbs will play and he will get some contract adjustments. Maybe not all he wants, but the team will take care of him like many other teams will do to players they have who feel they outplayed their contracts.
This is a common thing with UDFAs because they are playing for the NFL minimum, but this isn't Cribb's rookie contract, it has been adjusted once already.
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You guys babble too much. He's proved his worth, he's our best player on the team. He gives everything he has on the field. Pay him the bills
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It is hard to discuss what was said.
Cribbs said we did. But what was actually said? We may have said we would look at it and he took that to mean we would do something about it. The language used in many cases is the key, and people have a tendency to hear what they want to hear in situations like this.
If we said we would look at it...maybe we have and he doesn't like the conclusion??
I don't know what was said so at this point I can't consider that unless something very definitive surfaces. All I can do is consider the facts as I see them, and right now it isn't much in favor of the course Cribbs and his agent have chosen.
John Taylor cites 4 sources now saying that Savage and Crennel made promises to Cribbs. And other sources saying that Cribbs got a call from Lerner right after the Pitt game. Lerner isnt disputing what was said on the phone; he's saying the call was never made. He's calling Cribbs and Taylor's sources liars. To me, this isnt a great way to treat a hard working player.
As for the course Cribbs has chosen, all he is asking for is some incentives in his deal that would pay out if he gets used a lot on offense. Can somebody, ANYBODY, please tell me what problem you have with this? And please address this current situation. I find it hard to believe there will be a negative precedent set here. Are we really worried that we will have many future STers start taking snaps at QB/RB and ask for incentives to be added to his current contract? I find it hard to believe that's a big concern. This is a very unique situation.
John Taylor cites 4 sources now saying that Savage and Crennel made promises to Cribbs. And other sources saying that Cribbs got a call from Lerner right after the Pitt game. Lerner isnt disputing what was said on the phone; he's saying the call was never made. He's calling Cribbs and Taylor's sources liars. To me, this isnt a great way to treat a hard working player.
As for the course Cribbs has chosen, all he is asking for is some incentives in his deal that would pay out if he gets used a lot on offense. Can somebody, ANYBODY, please tell me what problem you have with this? And please address this current situation. I find it hard to believe there will be a negative precedent set here. Are we really worried that we will have many future STers start taking snaps at QB/RB and ask for incentives to be added to his current contract? I find it hard to believe that's a big concern. This is a very unique situation.
Actually, everything I have read so far is that Lerner is denying ever discussing Cribbs' contract on the phone or in person. Lerner has not denied talking to Cribbs on the phone.
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superbowl
Cribbs takes the blame for not winning a SB? Not the team owner that is on his 5th HC in less than a decade?
Cribbs takes the blame for not winning a SB? Not the team owner that is on his 5th HC in less than a decade?
This is only the 2nd coaching hire by Randy.
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This is amazing to me. What does a player have to do to get any support from you guys?
This is amazing to me. What does a player have to do to get any support from you guys?
BTW Tom, no input from you about what Cribbs' agent is saying the starting point is? Aren't you the one that claimed he only wants incentives put into his contract? His agent kind of blows that idea out of the water.
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This is amazing to me. What does a player have to do to get any support from you guys?
BTW Tom, no input from you about what Cribbs' agent is saying the starting point is? Aren't you the one that claimed he only wants incentives put into his contract? His agent kind of blows that idea out of the water.
BTW Tom, no input from you about what Cribbs' agent is saying the starting point is? Aren't you the one that claimed he only wants incentives put into his contract? His agent kind of blows that idea out of the water.
I did discuss that, yes. John Taylor's report was that Cribbs would be satisfied with just incentives. Obviously his agent isnt going to come out and publicly announce his real bottom line; that would be the least effective negotiating ever done. Of course, what his agent really asks for is even less than Taylor said. All the agent wants is for Mankok to show some good faith in starting real talks.
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from the Rogers/Cribbs thread:
'It wasn't us who did that deal and George Kokinis didn't do that deal,'' Rickert said of the new Browns' general manager. ''What a great opportunity to correct a bad situation.''
Rickert said Cribbs isn't looking for Devin Hester money. Hester, the Chicago Bears' Pro Bowl returner who tried to expand his role as a receiver in 2008, signed a four-year, $30 million contract extension with $15 million guaranteed last July.
''No, not at all,'' Rickert said of Hester's deal. ''We're not even saying, 'Do a new deal.' We're saying, 'Start the process with us.' ''
While playing on every special teams unit, Cribbs also sees action at receiver and may get time in the defensive backfield.
''We're just looking for market value for what he does,'' Rickert said.
Can we stop bashing him for wanting Hester's contract now?
from the Rogers/Cribbs thread:
Can we stop bashing him for wanting Hester's contract now?
What he does is ST. What's market value for a ST player?
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John Taylor cites 4 sources now saying that Savage and Crennel made promises to Cribbs. And other sources saying that Cribbs got a call from Lerner right after the Pitt game. Lerner isnt disputing what was said on the phone; he's saying the call was never made. He's calling Cribbs and Taylor's sources liars. To me, this isnt a great way to treat a hard working player.
As for the course Cribbs has chosen, all he is asking for is some incentives in his deal that would pay out if he gets used a lot on offense. Can somebody, ANYBODY, please tell me what problem you have with this? And please address this current situation. I find it hard to believe there will be a negative precedent set here. Are we really worried that we will have many future STers start taking snaps at QB/RB and ask for incentives to be added to his current contract? I find it hard to believe that's a big concern. This is a very unique situation.
Actually, everything I have read so far is that Lerner is denying ever discussing Cribbs' contract on the phone or in person. Lerner has not denied talking to Cribbs on the phone.
Actually, everything I have read so far is that Lerner is denying ever discussing Cribbs' contract on the phone or in person. Lerner has not denied talking to Cribbs on the phone.
I'll rephrase and you can parse that language then: Cribbs claims he got a promise from Lerner that his contract would be addressed, that he then immediately called several people to discuss that exciting news, that he has phone records of this, and there are people close to Cribbs that say it happened. Lerner says he never mentioned Cribbs' contract at all. Ever.
This is not a misunderstanding. This is someone either lying now or being intentionally deceptive at the time of the call. How this changes anything, I have no idea.
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from the Rogers/Cribbs thread:
Can we stop bashing him for wanting Hester's contract now?
What he does is ST. What's market value for a ST player?
What he does is ST. What's market value for a ST player?
This is getting silly. As has been said a dozen times in this thread, he wants a contract that will pay him for being more involved in the offense. If Mangini really wants to use him the way he says he does, then he isnt just a ST teams player.
While we're at it, you'll have a hard time naming a ST player more valuable than him, so I guess he should at least make more than the rest of them.
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Actually, everything I have read so far is that Lerner is denying ever discussing Cribbs' contract on the phone or in person. Lerner has not denied talking to Cribbs on the phone.
I'll rephrase and you can parse that language then: Cribbs claims he got a promise from Lerner that his contract would be addressed, that he then immediately called several people to discuss that exciting news, that he has phone records of this, and there are people close to Cribbs that say it happened. Lerner says he never mentioned Cribbs' contract at all. Ever.
This is not a misunderstanding. This is someone either lying now or being intentionally deceptive at the time of the call. How this changes anything, I have no idea.
I'll rephrase and you can parse that language then: Cribbs claims he got a promise from Lerner that his contract would be addressed, that he then immediately called several people to discuss that exciting news, that he has phone records of this, and there are people close to Cribbs that say it happened. Lerner says he never mentioned Cribbs' contract at all. Ever.
This is not a misunderstanding. This is someone either lying now or being intentionally deceptive at the time of the call. How this changes anything, I have no idea.
That is a vastly different statement then saying Lerner claims he never called and there are records showing he did. VASTLY different. As also stated elsewhere, it could as be as simple as miscommunication...Randy saying one thing, Josh hearing another, etc. None of us here will ever know.
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What he does is ST. What's market value for a ST player?
This is getting silly. As has been said a dozen times in this thread, he wants a contract that will pay him for being more involved in the offense. If Mangini really wants to use him the way he says he does, then he isnt just a ST teams player.
While we're at it, you'll have a hard time naming a ST player more valuable than him, so I guess he should at least make more than the rest of them.
This is getting silly. As has been said a dozen times in this thread, he wants a contract that will pay him for being more involved in the offense. If Mangini really wants to use him the way he says he does, then he isnt just a ST teams player.
While we're at it, you'll have a hard time naming a ST player more valuable than him, so I guess he should at least make more than the rest of them.
But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.
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I'll rephrase and you can parse that language then: Cribbs claims he got a promise from Lerner that his contract would be addressed, that he then immediately called several people to discuss that exciting news, that he has phone records of this, and there are people close to Cribbs that say it happened. Lerner says he never mentioned Cribbs' contract at all. Ever.
This is not a misunderstanding. This is someone either lying now or being intentionally deceptive at the time of the call. How this changes anything, I have no idea.
That is a vastly different statement then saying Lerner claims he never called and there are records showing he did. VASTLY different. As also stated elsewhere, it could as be as simple as miscommunication...Randy saying one thing, Josh hearing another, etc. None of us here will ever know.
That is a vastly different statement then saying Lerner claims he never called and there are records showing he did. VASTLY different. As also stated elsewhere, it could as be as simple as miscommunication...Randy saying one thing, Josh hearing another, etc. None of us here will ever know.
A miscommunication? Cribbs saying he got a specific guarantee and Lerner saying the topic never came up? Give me a break. I'm going to go out on a limb and keep discussing this as if neither Cribbs nor Lerner is mentally handicapped and they both spoke English during their phone conversation.
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This is getting silly. As has been said a dozen times in this thread, he wants a contract that will pay him for being more involved in the offense. If Mangini really wants to use him the way he says he does, then he isnt just a ST teams player.
While we're at it, you'll have a hard time naming a ST player more valuable than him, so I guess he should at least make more than the rest of them.
But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.
But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.
I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.
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That is a vastly different statement then saying Lerner claims he never called and there are records showing he did. VASTLY different. As also stated elsewhere, it could as be as simple as miscommunication...Randy saying one thing, Josh hearing another, etc. None of us here will ever know.
A miscommunication? Cribbs saying he got a specific guarantee and Lerner saying the topic never came up? Give me a break. I'm going to go out on a limb and keep discussing this as if neither Cribbs nor Lerner is mentally handicapped and they both spoke English during their phone conversation.
A miscommunication? Cribbs saying he got a specific guarantee and Lerner saying the topic never came up? Give me a break. I'm going to go out on a limb and keep discussing this as if neither Cribbs nor Lerner is mentally handicapped and they both spoke English during their phone conversation.
I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.
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A miscommunication? Cribbs saying he got a specific guarantee and Lerner saying the topic never came up? Give me a break. I'm going to go out on a limb and keep discussing this as if neither Cribbs nor Lerner is mentally handicapped and they both spoke English during their phone conversation.
I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.
I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.
Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.
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But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.
I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.
I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.
Unless it comes from Cribbs or his agent about just wanting incentives, then it is just reports. As for outperforming his contract, that's a matter of opinion. But get off this "give the Browns a year for free" bullshit. He's getting paid to be a Cleveland Browns player. I didn't realize they wrote specific positions/roles into contracts. IF he gets a more expanded role, and does well, then his contract should be revisited. But don't give me this bullshit of playing for free, or not being paid to play a certain position.
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Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
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I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.
Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.
Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.
As I said and you can't comprehend, I read it elsewhere in this thread, I did not fabricate it. I only listed it once more as a possibility. But since I am not all-knowing/all-seeing such as you are, I can admit I have no idea what was said and what Cribbs wants in his contract.
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