Browns looking at WR trade ?
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Tour & TC,
I admittedly lack your technical expertise, but I AM a lifelong Browns' Fan who has (& continues to) lived through the positives & negatives over the years. It seems to me that Kiser is a hard worker who addresses mistakes as he plays & improves as games go on. He also seems to "self diagnose". That said, he IS a rookie & will suffer growing pains. I just hope that our media & Fans (many of whom are very negative) can be patient. I look forward to continuing posts from both of you (and others) charting Kiser's progress.
I think the kid is a winner!
Mike
I do too. There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game, but even more to be said for understanding when some players just have "it". I'm not sure if it's something I can pick up on because I've picked a few stinkers in my time, but Kizer has always had a certain je ne sais quoi to him that is reminiscent of a lot of very good NFL QB's. It's something I thought I saw in his ND days and with each week I'm growing more and more convinced that he'll be the guy for us for a long time.
I don't think he'll ever be the guy who goes out there and completes 70% of his passes, throws zero picks and completely rips apart the defense pre snap a la Manning, but I think he'll be a guy who can go out there and extend plays, throw balls into seemingly impossible windows, and maybe have a few 400 yard passing games in his career when all is said and done.
I do too. There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game, but even more to be said for understanding when some players just have "it". I'm not sure if it's something I can pick up on because I've picked a few stinkers in my time, but Kizer has always had a certain je ne sais quoi to him that is reminiscent of a lot of very good NFL QB's. It's something I thought I saw in his ND days and with each week I'm growing more and more convinced that he'll be the guy for us for a long time.
I don't think he'll ever be the guy who goes out there and completes 70% of his passes, throws zero picks and completely rips apart the defense pre snap a la Manning, but I think he'll be a guy who can go out there and extend plays, throw balls into seemingly impossible windows, and maybe have a few 400 yard passing games in his career when all is said and done.
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
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I do too. There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game, but even more to be said for understanding when some players just have "it". I'm not sure if it's something I can pick up on because I've picked a few stinkers in my time, but Kizer has always had a certain je ne sais quoi to him that is reminiscent of a lot of very good NFL QB's. It's something I thought I saw in his ND days and with each week I'm growing more and more convinced that he'll be the guy for us for a long time.
I don't think he'll ever be the guy who goes out there and completes 70% of his passes, throws zero picks and completely rips apart the defense pre snap a la Manning, but I think he'll be a guy who can go out there and extend plays, throw balls into seemingly impossible windows, and maybe have a few 400 yard passing games in his career when all is said and done.
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
If our D plays as well in regular season as preseason, I'm all in with the rook while he learns. No one here thinks we are above a 5 win season so we got absolutely nothing to lose by just playing all the young guns both sides of the ball. Why not? It will certainly be entertaining.
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I do too. There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game, but even more to be said for understanding when some players just have "it". I'm not sure if it's something I can pick up on because I've picked a few stinkers in my time, but Kizer has always had a certain je ne sais quoi to him that is reminiscent of a lot of very good NFL QB's. It's something I thought I saw in his ND days and with each week I'm growing more and more convinced that he'll be the guy for us for a long time.
I don't think he'll ever be the guy who goes out there and completes 70% of his passes, throws zero picks and completely rips apart the defense pre snap a la Manning, but I think he'll be a guy who can go out there and extend plays, throw balls into seemingly impossible windows, and maybe have a few 400 yard passing games in his career when all is said and done.
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
I honestly could not handle that... and ultimately I do not think our Fanbase would either.
As I have said many times, Favre never won a SB, but he lost GB a couple of them.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
I honestly could not handle that... and ultimately I do not think our Fanbase would either.
As I have said many times, Favre never won a SB, but he lost GB a couple of them.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate
The thing I like most about both Kizer and Garrett is that they are both very smart players who are willing to both work and learn about how to be great players in the NFL. That's why I have no problem with letting them make their mistakes and learning from them every game as starters.
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He will be the proverbial gun slinger ala Favre 2.0, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take those INT's along with the WOW plays.
I honestly could not handle that... and ultimately I do not think our Fanbase would either.
As I have said many times, Favre never won a SB, but he lost GB a couple of them.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate.
I honestly could not handle that... and ultimately I do not think our Fanbase would either.
As I have said many times, Favre never won a SB, but he lost GB a couple of them.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate.
What do you mean? Favre appeared in two Super Bowls. He won the 1996 SB vs. the Patriots and then lost the 1997 one to the Broncos and Elway.
If you are saying that he had little part in winning the SB the Packers did with him....I would disagree. He was 14/27 for 246 yards and 2 TDs -0- ints in that game. And he was actually better in the SB he lost: 25/42 256 yds. 3 TDs and 1 int.
Those are the only 2 SBs that he appeared in.
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For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate
I don't see how that can be said either. Favre had more consecutive games played than any player in history. That clearly shows a substantial work ethic. Maybe you criticize him for "reckless play" at times. But that has nothing to do with work ethic, at all. It may be indicative of an attempt to just do too much.
RankPlayerPosPeriodTeamsRegular seasonPlayoffsTotal
1Brett FavreQB9/27/1992 – 12/5/2010Green Bay; NY Jets; Minnesota297[11][12]243212
Jim MarshallDE9/17/1961 – 12/16/1979Minnesota270[13][14]192893
Mick TingelhoffC9/16/1962 – 12/17/1978Minnesota240[15][16]192594
Bruce MatthewsOL11/29/1987 – 1/6/2002Houston/Tennessee229[17][18]152445
Will ShieldsRG9/12/1993 – 12/31/2006Kansas City223[19][20]82316T
Alan PageDT10/8/1967 – 12/20/1981Minnesota; Chicago215[21][22]192346T
Ronde BarberDB11/21/1999 – 12/30/2012Tampa Bay215[23][24]92246T
London FletcherLB11/12/2000 – 12/29/2013St. Louis; Buffalo; Washington215[25][26]62219
Jim OttoC9/11/1960 – 12/14/1974Oakland210[27][28]1322310T
Derrick BrooksLB9/1/1996 – 12/28/2008Tampa Bay208[29][30]1121910T
Peyton ManningQB9/6/1998 – 1/2/2011Indianapolis208[31][32]1922712
Gene UpshawLG9/10/1967 – 10/4/1981Oakland207[33][34]2423113
Randall McDanielLG10/22/1989 – 1/6/2002Minnesota; Tampa Bay202[35][36]16218
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I honestly could not handle that... and ultimately I do not think our Fanbase would either.
As I have said many times, Favre never won a SB, but he lost GB a couple of them.
Fortunately I do not see Favre in Kizer. For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate.
What do you mean? Favre appeared in two Super Bowls. He won the 1996 SB vs. the Patriots and then lost the 1997 one to the Broncos and Elway.
If you are saying that he had little part in winning the SB the Packers did with him....I would disagree. He was 14/27 for 246 yards and 2 TDs -0- ints in that game. And he was actually better in the SB he lost: 25/42 256 yds. 3 TDs and 1 int.
Those are the only 2 SBs that he appeared in.
...I would disagree.
I'm shocked...
Favre behaved for one season, because Reggie White explained it to him. He took care of the ball. He "Dilfer'd" for a season. He did not have the self-discipline to do it again.
In the SB where he was the winning QB his rating was 107.9... largely due to zero turnovers and a 9+ YPA. In the loss where per you he played "better", his rating was 91.0... he had two turnovers and a YPA of just over 6. One of the primary reasons the ratings are as close as they are is that in the win he took five sacks and in the loss only one. But taking sacks was preferable to going "Favre".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For starters Kizer's work ethic is clear to see. Favre's was always a topic of debate
I don't see how that can be said either. Favre had more consecutive games played than any player in history. That clearly shows a substantial work ethic. Maybe you criticize him for "reckless play" at times. But that has nothing to do with work ethic, at all. It may be indicative of an attempt to just do too much.
RankPlayerPosPeriodTeamsRegular seasonPlayoffsTotal
1Brett FavreQB9/27/1992 – 12/5/2010Green Bay; NY Jets; Minnesota297[11][12]243212
Jim MarshallDE9/17/1961 – 12/16/1979Minnesota270[13][14]192893
Mick TingelhoffC9/16/1962 – 12/17/1978Minnesota240[15][16]192594
Bruce MatthewsOL11/29/1987 – 1/6/2002Houston/Tennessee229[17][18]152445
Will ShieldsRG9/12/1993 – 12/31/2006Kansas City223[19][20]82316T
Alan PageDT10/8/1967 – 12/20/1981Minnesota; Chicago215[21][22]192346T
Ronde BarberDB11/21/1999 – 12/30/2012Tampa Bay215[23][24]92246T
London FletcherLB11/12/2000 – 12/29/2013St. Louis; Buffalo; Washington215[25][26]62219
Jim OttoC9/11/1960 – 12/14/1974Oakland210[27][28]1322310T
Derrick BrooksLB9/1/1996 – 12/28/2008Tampa Bay208[29][30]1121910T
Peyton ManningQB9/6/1998 – 1/2/2011Indianapolis208[31][32]1922712
Gene UpshawLG9/10/1967 – 10/4/1981Oakland207[33][34]2423113
Randall McDanielLG10/22/1989 – 1/6/2002Minnesota; Tampa Bay202[35][36]16218
I don't see how that can be said either. Favre had more consecutive games played than any player in history. That clearly shows a substantial work ethic. Maybe you criticize him for "reckless play" at times. But that has nothing to do with work ethic, at all. It may be indicative of an attempt to just do too much.
His streak is primarily what folks point in support of their argument that he had a strong work ethic.
It's a remarkable achievement, but I'll join others who say that showing up on a bunch of Sundays in a row is far less of an indicator of work ethic than what a QB does the other six days of the week.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
...I would disagree.
I'm shocked...
Favre behaved for one season, because Reggie White explained it to him. He took care of the ball. He "Dilfer'd" for a season. He did not have the self-discipline to do it again.
In the SB where he was the winning QB his rating was 107.9... largely due to zero turnovers and a 9+ YPA. In the loss where per you he played "better", his rating was 91.0... he had two turnovers and a YPA of just over 6. One of the primary reasons the ratings are as close as they are is that in the win he took five sacks and in the loss only one. But taking sacks was preferable to going "Favre".
I'm shocked...
Favre behaved for one season, because Reggie White explained it to him. He took care of the ball. He "Dilfer'd" for a season. He did not have the self-discipline to do it again.
In the SB where he was the winning QB his rating was 107.9... largely due to zero turnovers and a 9+ YPA. In the loss where per you he played "better", his rating was 91.0... he had two turnovers and a YPA of just over 6. One of the primary reasons the ratings are as close as they are is that in the win he took five sacks and in the loss only one. But taking sacks was preferable to going "Favre".
So, what? In your estimation like Matt Flynn or the like would have been just as good as Favre in leading that team to two consecutive Super Bowls?
Was Favre undisciplined? Sure. But what do you want out of a QB: A guy with superior talent and Chutzpah....or a leader. You would have preferred like Cody Kessler...a Captain Checkdown.
The Super Bowl that he lost in which he threw 3 TDs....and you think he had a bad performance. Maybe he lost because John Elway was just better that day.
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I don't see how that can be said either. Favre had more consecutive games played than any player in history. That clearly shows a substantial work ethic. Maybe you criticize him for "reckless play" at times. But that has nothing to do with work ethic, at all. It may be indicative of an attempt to just do too much.
His streak is primarily what folks point in support of their argument that he had a strong work ethic.
It's a remarkable achievement, but I'll join others who say that showing up on a bunch of Sundays in a row is far less of an indicator of work ethic than what a QB does the other six days of the week.
His streak is primarily what folks point in support of their argument that he had a strong work ethic.
It's a remarkable achievement, but I'll join others who say that showing up on a bunch of Sundays in a row is far less of an indicator of work ethic than what a QB does the other six days of the week.
Well....isn't "achievement" the goal? How is this for achievement: Most wins by an NFL starting QB in a career: Tom Brady 208, Peyton Manning 200, Brett Favre 199. John Elway 162, Dan Marino 155. You say he also had more losses than anyone else? That is true. Sometimes the rest of the team you are on has something to do with wins and losses.
Would I have liked to have had him playing for the Browns for like a 10 year period? Better ass believe it.
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I'm shocked...
Favre behaved for one season, because Reggie White explained it to him. He took care of the ball. He "Dilfer'd" for a season. He did not have the self-discipline to do it again.
In the SB where he was the winning QB his rating was 107.9... largely due to zero turnovers and a 9+ YPA. In the loss where per you he played "better", his rating was 91.0... he had two turnovers and a YPA of just over 6. One of the primary reasons the ratings are as close as they are is that in the win he took five sacks and in the loss only one. But taking sacks was preferable to going "Favre".
So, what? In your estimation like Matt Flynn or the like would have been just as good as Favre in leading that team to two consecutive Super Bowls?
Was Favre undisciplined? Sure. But what do you want out of a QB: A guy with superior talent and Chutzpah....or a leader. You would have preferred like Cody Kessler...a Captain Checkdown.
The Super Bowl that he lost in which he threw 3 TDs....and you think he had a bad performance. Maybe he lost because John Elway was just better that day.
Maybe he lost because John Elway was just better that day.
Would that be the Elway that threw for 123 yards?
But you keep on generating strawmen...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
His streak is primarily what folks point in support of their argument that he had a strong work ethic.
It's a remarkable achievement, but I'll join others who say that showing up on a bunch of Sundays in a row is far less of an indicator of work ethic than what a QB does the other six days of the week.
Well....isn't "achievement" the goal? How is this for achievement: Most wins by an NFL starting QB in a career: Tom Brady 208, Peyton Manning 200, Brett Favre 199. John Elway 162, Dan Marino 155. You say he also had more losses than anyone else? That is true. Sometimes the rest of the team you are on has something to do with wins and losses.
Would I have liked to have had him playing for the Browns for like a 10 year period? Better ass believe it.
Would I have liked to have had him playing for the Browns for like a 10 year period? Better ass believe it.
I don't... I've seen you post.
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Maybe he lost because John Elway was just better that day.
Would that be the Elway that threw for 123 yards?
But you keep on generating strawmen...
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Sure, Gip.... Care to put that in a poll?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Would I have liked to have had him playing for the Browns for like a 10 year period? Better ass believe it.
I don't... I've seen you post.
Again, I don't know if you are continuing to have issues expressing yourself: You are saying that you would NOT have liked to have had Favre play for the Browns? Is that because you have had so much love and confidence in the 27 starting QBs we have had here since 1999? Or do you just have some irrational hatred for Favre? I mean, yes, I know that he gave a very wooden performance in "Something About Mary"....or is it that were jealous that he got to date Cameron Diaz in that movie...or some such thing?
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Sure, Gip.... Care to put that in a poll?
Put what in a poll?
A. That people agree with you that Favre LOST two Super Bowls?
B. That people agree that Elway outplayed Favre in the SB in which they faced off?
C. That people agree that your arguments about this subject melt away after a bit of scrutiny?
D. That Howard Wilson has the same status as a player on the Browns as Joel Bitonio and Danny Shelton?
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I've never seen the attraction to Farve. That's hardly a secret. I think he's the most overrated QB of the modern era.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I've never seen the attraction to Farve. That's hardly a secret. I think he's the most overrated QB of the modern era.
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Tour & TC,
I admittedly lack your technical expertise, but I AM a lifelong Browns' Fan who has (& continues to) lived through the positives & negatives over the years. It seems to me that Kiser is a hard worker who addresses mistakes as he plays & improves as games go on. He also seems to "self diagnose". That said, he IS a rookie & will suffer growing pains. I just hope that our media & Fans (many of whom are very negative) can be patient. I look forward to continuing posts from both of you (and others) charting Kiser's progress.
I think the kid is a winner!
Mike
I do too. There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game, but even more to be said for understanding when some players just have "it". I'm not sure if it's something I can pick up on because I've picked a few stinkers in my time, but Kizer has always had a certain je ne sais quoi to him that is reminiscent of a lot of very good NFL QB's. It's something I thought I saw in his ND days and with each week I'm growing more and more convinced that he'll be the guy for us for a long time.
I don't think he'll ever be the guy who goes out there and completes 70% of his passes, throws zero picks and completely rips apart the defense pre snap a la Manning, but I think he'll be a guy who can go out there and extend plays, throw balls into seemingly impossible windows, and maybe have a few 400 yard passing games in his career when all is said and done.
There's a lot to be said for understanding the minutiae of the game...
Speaking of minutiae... was posting my takes in a reddit thread when an impression gelled that's been knocking around in my head. Here's my reply with the impression underlined and the gelled bit underlined and italicized in the next paragraph with the money shot in bold to boot.
In general I think you are giving him way too much credit for surveying the field. Hell... in the 2nd throw to Britt he even glanced Britt's way pre-snap.
Right now Hue's got him reading half the field... and he'll pay a price for that simplification in the regular season, but he'll also have successes.
Normally Kizer looks to at best be executing the predetermined glances away from his primary to delay the Safety(ies) rotation to the play. In a couple instances he may have checked to be sure the Safety had not rotated over to his primary, but I haven't seen a true progression yet. The closest he's come has been in a couple designed rollouts where he's checking high to low between two routes to the Rollout's side.
That said... on a positive note the TB game was the first I've noted him even glancing away from his primary... so that's progress. Executing the glances away is part of the training process. If he glances away, then he has to reacquire his target. If he can reacquire a target, then he can acquire a target.
Anyway that's what I see...
I can't wait until the first time he starts with reading the Safeties at the snap as he drops to determine at which half he is going to look to acquire a target. Then we'll know the training wheels are off and it's Game On!
No knowledge that this is in fact in the QB training manual, but it seems a logical step in teaching a young QB how to play in the NFL.
Going thru the throws in Kizer's TB compiliation,
the glances seemed so perfunctory, just way too fast to gather information, even robotic that there must be a higher purpose... and training is what I came up with...Thoughts?
And here's the link to the reddit thread; https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/6wvqsb/playbyplay_of_deshone_kizers_week_3_performance/
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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