Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp
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I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.
Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.
Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.
As I said and you can't comprehend, I read it elsewhere in this thread, I did not fabricate it. I only listed it once more as a possibility. But since I am not all-knowing/all-seeing such as you are, I can admit I have no idea what was said and what Cribbs wants in his contract.
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Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
I vote for Karnak, since he seems to be all-knowing and knows exactly what happened and what Cribbs really wants.
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Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?
Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.
I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.
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Time for a name change -
Old: We need Tom Tupa
New: We need Josh Cribbs
How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?
Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.
I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.
How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?
Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.
I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.
I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
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How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?
Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.
I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.
I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
Let's make a rule that nobody is allowed to use sources here okay? We'll have a discussion once Josh and Randy get themselves logins and tell us what's going on in this thread.
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Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
Let's make a rule that nobody is allowed to use sources here okay? We'll have a discussion once Josh and Randy get themselves logins and tell us what's going on in this thread.
Let's make a rule that nobody is allowed to use sources here okay? We'll have a discussion once Josh and Randy get themselves logins and tell us what's going on in this thread.
Wow, reading comprehension has really taken a nosedive here.
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Cribbs takes the blame for not winning a SB? Not the team owner that is on his 5th HC in less than a decade?
This is only the 2nd coaching hire by Randy.
This is only the 2nd coaching hire by Randy.
That's right - he only gave Butch a new contract. But that was because he earned it by leading the team to a 5-11 record. Am I remembering things wrongly?
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Let's make a rule that nobody is allowed to use sources here okay? We'll have a discussion once Josh and Randy get themselves logins and tell us what's going on in this thread.
Wow, reading comprehension has really taken a nosedive here.
Wow, reading comprehension has really taken a nosedive here.
I'd make a nit picking, snarky, nosedive-related personal attack in return rather than adding substance to the conversation as well, but a nosedive would imply your tone had somewhere to fall from to begin with.
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This is only the 2nd coaching hire by Randy.
That's right - he only gave Butch a new contract. But that was because he earned it by leading the team to a 5-11 record. Am I remembering things wrongly?
That's right - he only gave Butch a new contract. But that was because he earned it by leading the team to a 5-11 record. Am I remembering things wrongly?
I don't fault him for that...but if you want to, more power to you. But Butch wasn't his hire, so the statement is one of fact as compared to the statement made by the original poster.
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Wow, reading comprehension has really taken a nosedive here.
I'd make a nit picking, snarky, nosedive-related personal attack in return rather than adding substance to the conversation as well, but a nosedive would imply your tone had somewhere to fall from to begin with.
I'd make a nit picking, snarky, nosedive-related personal attack in return rather than adding substance to the conversation as well, but a nosedive would imply your tone had somewhere to fall from to begin with.
Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
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I'd make a nit picking, snarky, nosedive-related personal attack in return rather than adding substance to the conversation as well, but a nosedive would imply your tone had somewhere to fall from to begin with.
Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
Thanks, why don't you start another thread for your nonsense and leave this one for a conversation regarding Josh Cribbs?
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Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
Thanks, why don't you start another thread for your nonsense and leave this one for a conversation regarding Josh Cribbs?
Thanks, why don't you start another thread for your nonsense and leave this one for a conversation regarding Josh Cribbs?
Or you can do the same, you're the one that chimed in with your idiotic statement. I can't help it you that can't comprehend written words.
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That's right - he only gave Butch a new contract. But that was because he earned it by leading the team to a 5-11 record. Am I remembering things wrongly?
I don't fault him for that...but if you want to, more power to you. But Butch wasn't his hire, so the statement is one of fact as compared to the statement made by the original poster.
I don't fault him for that...but if you want to, more power to you.
That's the point - I'm not bashing Lerner, but why be so quick to defend management who hands out raises and contract extensions to coaches etc who do a so-so job, then turn around and be so opposed to a player who has done so well for the team saying he is considering skipping OPTIONAL practices while he attempts to obtain what seems to be a reasonable goal - a mere start to meaningful negotiations in order to amend a paltry contract?
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How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?
Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.
I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.
I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
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At least BE came to camp today.
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I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
Hey tupa i thought i would chime in about 3 pages later.
Is it now that lerner is just denying contract 'gaurantee's' over the phone with JC?
You mentioned that JC is not mentaly Retarded, link? J/K, although his intelligence has been questioned, sorry no links on that.
I really want this guy on the roster come gm 1, i just hope this agent isn't filling his head with granduer. You have taken quite a stand for this guy and he is what we want from all Browns except for this latest $$$$ BS.
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But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.
I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.
I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.
Makes no sense? That's what happens at most jobs. You are given expanded responsibilities/roles and, after you've proven yourself, they give you a raise.
You don't get the raise first.
I agree that incentives aren't a bad idea. Same base pay. Incentives for meeting certain goals in other areas (defensive/offensive involvement). A football player is a little different in that if he gets injured in his expanded role, then he's useless and won't get paid for it.
I don't think there should be an increase in base pay or more guaranteed money, though. He could be given guaranteed money or a higher base pay and then get hurt while returning a kick.
Also, I'm not sure wtf is going on with the Lerner/JC phone call. Cribbs has always been more than honest - I don't think he's lying, although it's entirely possible he heard something differently than what was said.
It's possible Lerner is lying, but, again, he seems an honest guy. However, based on what we know about the guy not being a great speaker, it's entirely possible that he phrased what was said in such a way that it could be easily be taken as 'we'll take care of you'.
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What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
Hey tupa i thought i would chime in about 3 pages later.
Is it now that lerner is just denying contract 'gaurantee's' over the phone with JC?
You mentioned that JC is not mentaly Retarded, link? J/K, although his intelligence has been questioned, sorry no links on that.
I really want this guy on the roster come gm 1, i just hope this agent isn't filling his head with granduer. You have taken quite a stand for this guy and he is what we want from all Browns except for this latest $$$$ BS.
Hey tupa i thought i would chime in about 3 pages later.
Is it now that lerner is just denying contract 'gaurantee's' over the phone with JC?
You mentioned that JC is not mentaly Retarded, link? J/K, although his intelligence has been questioned, sorry no links on that.
I really want this guy on the roster come gm 1, i just hope this agent isn't filling his head with granduer. You have taken quite a stand for this guy and he is what we want from all Browns except for this latest $$$$ BS.
Welcome back.
Lerner told OBR that he has never spoken with Cribbs over the phone regarding his contract at all.
If this was out of the blue, I would probably be much more hesitant to side with Cribbs on this. But there have been consistent small comments about a coming reworking of his deal and now we are told that Savage and Crennel definitely made him promises.
I wouldnt want to overpay for any player. But Cribbs is underpaid, was promised better, and I can't find a way to think management is treating him fairly unless I believe that he is a bold faced liar. Maybe he is. I admit, I dont know. But it would really surprise me. He at least deserves to be treated respectfully.
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I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.
As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.
You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.
What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:
IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?
IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?
IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?
IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?
Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?
I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.
I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.
If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.
If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.
I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
What I am saying is you initially came across as saying that its fact that Cribbs only wants incentives included, based solely on Taylor's report. Considering all the "reports" about Browns players so far this offseason, I take ANY of them with a huge grain of salt.
As for the points you want to discuss....
IF Cribbs holds out or demands a trade, he has NO leverage whatsoever. He doesn't get paid and gets fined for missing mandatory things. Risky game for him at this point.
Same thing with scenario two. The team still holds the cards and threatening to hold out is not the way to go about it.
As far as your views on the last two, I pretty much agree.
Now, if in reality all he would like to see now is some incentives, and a chance to revisit IF his role expands and he does well, then I would support that stance. But I disagree with the holdout/trade demand route, or the public route it has taken.
As for Mangini, I haven't seen anything that reports Mangini's stance on this. Everything so far, unless I missed something, has been about Lerner and Kokinis. I'm not so sure this is about Mangini's rep and wanting to maintain it.
As for Lerner, if indeed he did make a promise, then its on his head. If it was only Savage and Crennel, then no, I don't feel that the current regime is required/responsible to be bound by it.
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I'd make a nit picking, snarky, nosedive-related personal attack in return rather than adding substance to the conversation as well, but a nosedive would imply your tone had somewhere to fall from to begin with.
Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
Glad you know how to read tone into black and white text. You can be Karnak's assistant.
"May a diseased Yak leave an unwelcomed present in your turbin." ....... Karnak the Great!
This thread sure has everybody's dander up.
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