Haden a Steeler
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This money-ball move is hard to comprehend. It's not like money is the issue because we have a lot of cap-space. Maybe Haden isn't worth $11M but he was a veteran leader, arguably our top corner, and all teams have contracts that they wished they didn't sign. We're willing to pay $13M for a future second round draft pick but not $11M for a veteran leader and contributor on a team lacking in secondary talent. That argument is spurious.
Tale-of-the-Tape: Browns save $7M (I heard we owe him $4 anyway). Browns lose a starting corner reducing the talent there to only 3 people. Steelers gain a corner to add to their depth at the position and make their team better.
Hmmmm. I say this decision sucks lemons and backfired. They say he was having a great camp. I don't know about that ... maybe the Browns thought the exact opposite. That must be considered in this decision.
But Shasi, for the love of God, when are you going to field a winning team like your job is on the line? Because no GM that is feeling that pressure makes this move over $7M. All teams get draft choices, and gain/lose free agents. But few of them (other than those with cap issues) make a move to reduce talent to save more money.
Where am I wrong?
Where am I wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I love Haden and his name is on the only Browns jersey I own, but you are wrong about him being arguably our best corner. He USED to be undisputedly our best corner. Performance wise, he's been outplayed by Jamar Taylor, BBC last year, and also by McCourty this preseason.
He earns a big contract and proceeds to be terrible. I don't blame it on the contract, but the injuries. You'll recall, however, that he wasn't willing to tough it out on some of those injuries, where I'm sure the expectation, after getting such a big contract, was to tough it out. Gregg Williams put him on notice about this when he came in.
Hate on the FO all you want, they are doing the right thing to build a sustainable, winning team. It wasn't long ago we were all praising their draft which has yielded promising young starters out of the first three of our four picks and has transformed our offensive line from one terrible to potentially one of the best in the league. You all need to see the forest and stop fixating on the trees.
You are also wrong about Sashi's job being on the line, and I'm thankful that Jimmy came to his senses and disposed of this nonsensical itchy-trigger-finger thinking that permeates the Brown's fanbase. Sashi's job is secure. It's secure because you don't fix 17 years of sucking in two years. Haslam finally gets that. Sashi is going to be given the chance to see his plan to completion, and when it's done I guarantee you we'll have a winning football team.
Read my signature text and either get on board the roller coaster or head on over to the kiddie rides.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Message to team from Gregg Williams: You are in this 100% or you are out the door regardless of your past accomplishments.
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Where am I wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I love Haden and his name is on the only Browns jersey I own, but you are wrong about him being arguably our best corner. He USED to be undisputedly our best corner. Performance wise, he's been outplayed by Jamar Taylor, BBC last year, and also by McCourty this preseason.
He earns a big contract and proceeds to be terrible. I don't blame it on the contract, but the injuries. You'll recall, however, that he wasn't willing to tough it out on some of those injuries, where I'm sure the expectation, after getting such a big contract, was to tough it out. Gregg Williams put him on notice about this when he came in.
Hate on the FO all you want, they are doing the right thing to build a sustainable, winning team. It wasn't long ago we were all praising their draft which has yielded promising young starters out of the first three of our four picks and has transformed our offensive line from one terrible to potentially one of the best in the league. You all need to see the forest and stop fixating on the trees.
You are also wrong about Sashi's job being on the line, and I'm thankful that Jimmy came to his senses and disposed of this nonsensical itchy-trigger-finger thinking that permeates the Brown's fanbase. Sashi's job is secure. It's secure because you don't fix 17 years of sucking in two years. Haslam finally gets that. Sashi is going to be given the chance to see his plan to completion, and when it's done I guarantee you we'll have a winning football team.
Read my signature text and either get on board the roller coaster or head on over to the kiddie rides.
Don't get me wrong, I love Haden and his name is on the only Browns jersey I own, but you are wrong about him being arguably our best corner. He USED to be undisputedly our best corner. Performance wise, he's been outplayed by Jamar Taylor, BBC last year, and also by McCourty this preseason.
He earns a big contract and proceeds to be terrible. I don't blame it on the contract, but the injuries. You'll recall, however, that he wasn't willing to tough it out on some of those injuries, where I'm sure the expectation, after getting such a big contract, was to tough it out. Gregg Williams put him on notice about this when he came in.
Hate on the FO all you want, they are doing the right thing to build a sustainable, winning team. It wasn't long ago we were all praising their draft which has yielded promising young starters out of the first three of our four picks and has transformed our offensive line from one terrible to potentially one of the best in the league. You all need to see the forest and stop fixating on the trees.
You are also wrong about Sashi's job being on the line, and I'm thankful that Jimmy came to his senses and disposed of this nonsensical itchy-trigger-finger thinking that permeates the Brown's fanbase. Sashi's job is secure. It's secure because you don't fix 17 years of sucking in two years. Haslam finally gets that. Sashi is going to be given the chance to see his plan to completion, and when it's done I guarantee you we'll have a winning football team.
Read my signature text and either get on board the roller coaster or head on over to the kiddie rides.
Excellent post
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Thank you, Pittsburgh, for taking Haden off the Browns' hands. I think he'll be a complete bust for the Steelers, truthfully. He's been terrible for the Browns the last couple years. Between concussions and surgeries, he's not been on the field much, and when he has been, he's been burned for big plays more often than not.
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Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now. What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.
What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Fakin. Stinkie
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it shouldn't. Kosar was let go after changing buttichek's play and KOSAR's play went for a TD. A throw.
So, unless you think Haden changed Hue's play, it shouldn't have reminded you of anything of the sort.
And, blaming Sashi is foolish. You can bet he didn't make this move alone - and you can bet
Gregg initiated it. Haden hadn't been the earlier Joe Haden for a few years - and McCourty has
been making plays all over the field. Poor Joe lost his burst. The upside is, the squealers desperately
wanted him when he was cut. Back in the day, nearly nobody desperately wanted any Browns player that was cut.
Things are really looking up. LOL BTW, the joke in on the squealers - the first time they tell Joe to
deliberately take out an opposing qb's knee, he will tell them to shove it.
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Doesn't matter. He wasn't the worst CB on your roster and he's a upgrade for us.
Subtraction from your overall team talent and addition to our overall team talent.
That's how you own a division.
Haden gonna win more games this year than he has in the last 3 with the Clown's.
Doesn't matter. He wasn't the worst CB on your roster and he's a upgrade for us.
We don't know about that. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps better than some of the UDFAs that will be cut. But he was getting burned like a lobster in a pot.
Subtraction from your overall team talent and addition to our overall team talent.
Maybe. On the other hand, if he plays like he has lately...he may not be any better of an addition than if you had kept one of your UDFA CBs in lieu of picking Joe up.
That's how you own a division.
You own a division by being a MOR team, but having the other teams in your division be some kind of sucky. At least that is what happened last year: 2016. Steelers win division...NO other team above .500. 2015 Bengals Div. Champ 2014 Steelers win division with 11-5 record: Bengals 10-5-1, Ravens 10-6. 2013 Bengals win Division 2012. Ravens and Bengals tie for division title. 2012. Ravens and Steelers tie for division title.
I am not sure what it is you think you own...but it certainly has not been the supremacy of the AFCN in the last 5 years. (but, I do expect Steelers to win this year...because Bengals and Ravens continue to drop off..and Browns have not yet gotten to the point where they can challenge)
Haden gonna win more games this year than he has in the last 3 with the Clown's.
That means the Steelers have to win 12 games this year. Yea, no, I don't see that happening. I think you may be lucky to have Joe PLAY in 12 games this year. He has been so injury prone.
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FWIW, Browns now owe Haden nothing. He's a hit on their cap, but the 4 mil the Browns owed Haden is offset by the Pittsburgh deal, not the other way around.
FWIW, Browns now owe Haden nothing. He's a hit on their cap, but the 4 mil the Browns owed Haden is offset by the Pittsburgh deal, not the other way around.
You sure? That is not what I heard. I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill. No?
Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)
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This money-ball move is hard to comprehend. It's not like money is the issue because we have a lot of cap-space. Maybe Haden isn't worth $11M but he was a veteran leader, arguably our top corner, and all teams have contracts that they wished they didn't sign. We're willing to pay $13M for a future second round draft pick but not $11M for a veteran leader and contributor on a team lacking in secondary talent. That argument is spurious.
Tale-of-the-Tape: Browns save $7M (I heard we owe him $4 anyway). Browns lose a starting corner reducing the talent there to only 3 people. Steelers gain a corner to add to their depth at the position and make their team better.
Hmmmm. I say this decision sucks lemons and backfired. They say he was having a great camp. I don't know about that ... maybe the Browns thought the exact opposite. That must be considered in this decision.
But Shasi, for the love of God, when are you going to field a winning team like your job is on the line? Because no GM that is feeling that pressure makes this move over $7M. All teams get draft choices, and gain/lose free agents. But few of them (other than those with cap issues) make a move to reduce talent to save more money.
Where am I wrong?
Your argument is solid. Joe is a leader, and people looked upto him. Getting rid of him is a downgrade, and it's not like Sashi and Jimmy are going to sign anyone else except someone that would cost Jimmy peanuts. I see it as our secondary getting worse. Steelers never got rid of Polamalu or James Harrison to save money.
We paid for Osweiler and that pick, which are apparently more important than Joe.
Not only that, but last year we cut people we didn't have a replacement for and got worse in certain positions.
I wonder what Mudfly thinks about this....
Can someone logically argue that Sashi is making us better and not only saving Jimmy money?
I guess it doesn't matter, since the owner doesn't seem to give a rats tail if we win as long as he's selling tickets, merch, and making money.
And how long is this moneyball "plan"?
10 years?
Maybe football guys know football and harvard guys know business, but business knowledge doesn't always equal football knowledge, and to blindly praise Sashi for everything he does is a mistake.
Your argument is solid. Joe is a leader, and people looked upto him. Getting rid of him is a downgrade, and it's not like Sashi and Jimmy are going to sign anyone else except someone that would cost Jimmy peanuts. I see it as our secondary getting worse. Steelers never got rid of Polamalu or James Harrison to save money.
We paid for Osweiler and that pick, which are apparently more important than Joe.
Not only that, but last year we cut people we didn't have a replacement for and got worse in certain positions.
I wonder what Mudfly thinks about this....
Can someone logically argue that Sashi is making us better and not only saving Jimmy money?
I guess it doesn't matter, since the owner doesn't seem to give a rats tail if we win as long as he's selling tickets, merch, and making money.
And how long is this moneyball "plan"?
10 years?
Maybe football guys know football and harvard guys know business, but business knowledge doesn't always equal football knowledge, and to blindly praise Sashi for everything he does is a mistake.
IF....Gregg Williams thought that Joe was toast...and that the Browns would be better off with the likes of McCourty, Taylor, the Lady Brienne, Hillary, Burley, Murray and Stribling....then in their view this move DOES make them better. And include possibly some waiver pick up. And don't forget Howard Wilson whom they drafted. And then their is the draft next year. This FO is all about the long term.
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Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".
Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now.
What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.
What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.
He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Nation.
Reminds me of another fan favorite that was let go because of "diminishing skills".
Difference was with Kosar, they had no replacement...they had Todd Philcox. Browns have replacements for Joe that are likely better.
Whether or not Joe is on the downside is not important right now.
He IS on the downside.
What is important is that his acquisition just made the Steelers a better team. Joe on crutches is better than anything they have.
Now, that is quite an admission about the sorry state of affairs of the Steelers Defensive Backfield. Browns believe they had 4-5 CBs better than Haden. This is an apparent tacit admission that now the Browns have 4-5 CBs that are better than anything the Steelers have.
What may also be disturbing to some is that Haden wanted to be a Steeler. Reports of him turning down bigger offers.
You need to provide proof of those reports because I have not heard them...nor do I believe them.
He, his father and family excited to be a part of Steeler Nation.
Of course they are happy....despite what you said in your sentence above, the Steelers, I believe are paying him (and his family) vast amounts of money that they doubted that they would get otherwise. I would be happy if the Steelers paid me 7 million dollars. For that I would go Ghoolie on you and sing their praises.
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FWIW, Browns now owe Haden nothing. He's a hit on their cap, but the 4 mil the Browns owed Haden is offset by the Pittsburgh deal, not the other way around.
You sure? That is not what I heard. I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill. No?
Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)
You sure? That is not what I heard. I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill. No?
Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)
This is what I understand as well.
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You sure? That is not what I heard. I heard that he gets his 4 mill from the Browns, plus the 7 mill from the Squibs. I thought the offset would only apply if he got from the Squibs what he would have made this year had he stayed with the Browns....the full 11 mill. No?
Irregardless, the Browns still take about a 3.5 mill cap hit (not that it matters as they are far below the cap number)
This is what I understand as well.
This is what I understand as well.
Reports elsewhere say that the Browns now owe him squadoosh. Bottom line, does it matter to any of us if Jimmy either has to save or spend money? It only matter to Joe H. and Jim H. And the salary cap hit is no real factor. Its not like Browns are close in that regard.
The only issue is the talent that is on the field...and in the coaching ranks. Apparently Browns felt they had 4-5 CBs better than Joe. I am not sure about that....but they were satisfied with that fact.
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This is what I understand as well.
Reports elsewhere say that the Browns now owe him squadoosh. Bottom line, does it matter to any of us if Jimmy either has to save or spend money? It only matter to Joe H. and Jim H. And the salary cap hit is no real factor. Its not like Browns are close in that regard.
The only issue is the talent that is on the field...and in the coaching ranks. Apparently Browns felt they had 4-5 CBs better than Joe. I am not sure about that....but they were satisfied with that fact.
Reports elsewhere say that the Browns now owe him squadoosh. Bottom line, does it matter to any of us if Jimmy either has to save or spend money? It only matter to Joe H. and Jim H. And the salary cap hit is no real factor. Its not like Browns are close in that regard.
The only issue is the talent that is on the field...and in the coaching ranks. Apparently Browns felt they had 4-5 CBs better than Joe. I am not sure about that....but they were satisfied with that fact.
I've read reports that the Browns are paying $4M of the $7M he gets this year. Read reports that the Browns don't have to pay anything (but it still goes on the cap)...
If Haden is making only $7M this year, then this is 100% on HIM and nothing on Sashi Brown. It would mean that he simply wanted to play for the Steelers and stamped his own ticket out of town in accomplishing that goal.
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I've never been on the Joe Hayden hate wagon. I realize he's lost a step and isn't worth the money anymore. It's too bad because that type of situation always bothers me especially when the guy seems to have had a good attitude. On the other hand if the Cleveland Browns decided they'd be just as happy to pay his salary and be rid of him then I can't blame him for going anywhere else. I don't wish him luck in Pittsburgh and I hope that he plays at least as poorly or worse than he's played for us. But I understand any player not wanting to admit that he's washed up. Every human being can possibly have an inflated idea of how much gas they have left in the tank. It's not personal, he wasn't born and raised in Cleveland. We hate the Steelers. Fuck them and in their wake I guess fuck him too, but it's not personal.
WSS
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new game plan week 1: vertical routes thrown at Haden every play.
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Doesn't matter. He wasn't the worst CB on your roster and he's a upgrade for us.
Subtraction from your overall team talent and addition to our overall team talent.
That's how you own a division.
Haden gonna win more games this year than he has in the last 3 with the Clown's.
You own the division by gloating about picking up a player that a bad team chose to cut?
You own the division by gloating about picking up a player that a bad team chose to cut?
That "bad team" (and I'm glad you freely admit it) didn't cut him because he can't play anymore, just that he can't play worth his elite contract was paying.
That's fine by me, we didn't need a elite, top 3, corner....we needed a upgrade over what we had on the roster and that's what we got.
Trust me, if Haden was willing to take a pay cut in Cleveland he'd still be your starter....
Win win STEELERS!
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben. -
Players get hurt! That is the game of FOOTBALL! I'm sorry if these anal antic faggots don't understand the game, since they've never played it in their life. Players are gonna get hurt and it's gonna take some time to get back into playing the way they did before the injury. I guess we're unwilling to wait then?
Well, if that is the approach then check this. Sashi, you fucking bitch, you have one year to produce. You shit the bed last year. You shit the bed again and you're fucking GONE too period.
If you are unwilling to hold you're goddamn dick in your pants, then so are we. Produce NOW or get the fuck on.
You don't fuck with loyalty in Brownstown. You make me fucking sick.
Players get hurt! That is the game of FOOTBALL! I'm sorry if these anal antic faggots don't understand the game, since they've never played it in their life. Players are gonna get hurt and it's gonna take some time to get back into playing the way they did before the injury. I guess we're unwilling to wait then?
Well, if that is the approach then check this. Sashi, you fucking bitch, you have one year to produce. You shit the bed last year. You shit the bed again and you're fucking GONE too period.
If you are unwilling to hold you're goddamn dick in your pants, then so are we. Produce NOW or get the fuck on.
You don't fuck with loyalty in Brownstown. You make me fucking sick.
its a tough one....i think joe should have retired....he has had a few concusses and had a real bad one last yr...this isn't a fucking torn acl...he could be a veggie in a few yrs....i would not doubt if he does not make it thru this whole season anyway. If he was still with the clowns everyone would be saying, that we should have got rid of him from the get go with his injuries...
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I've never been on the Joe Hayden hate wagon. I realize he's lost a step and isn't worth the money anymore. It's too bad because that type of situation always bothers me especially when the guy seems to have had a good attitude. On the other hand if the Cleveland Browns decided they'd be just as happy to pay his salary and be rid of him then I can't blame him for going anywhere else. I don't wish him luck in Pittsburgh and I hope that he plays at least as poorly or worse than he's played for us. But I understand any player not wanting to admit that he's washed up. Every human being can possibly have an inflated idea of how much gas they have left in the tank. It's not personal, he wasn't born and raised in Cleveland. We hate the Steelers. Fuck them and in their wake I guess fuck him too, but it's not personal.
WSS
I've never been on the Joe Hayden hate wagon. I realize he's lost a step and isn't worth the money anymore. It's too bad because that type of situation always bothers me especially when the guy seems to have had a good attitude. On the other hand if the Cleveland Browns decided they'd be just as happy to pay his salary and be rid of him then I can't blame him for going anywhere else. I don't wish him luck in Pittsburgh and I hope that he plays at least as poorly or worse than he's played for us. But I understand any player not wanting to admit that he's washed up. Every human being can possibly have an inflated idea of how much gas they have left in the tank. It's not personal, he wasn't born and raised in Cleveland. We hate the Steelers. Fuck them and in their wake I guess fuck him too, but it's not personal.
WSS
if he was not a fucking injury liability, the pats would have made him a better offer. I'm sure he would have gone to new england before pittsburgh. HE IS A FUCKING INJURY LIABILITY, GET THAT THRU YOUR FUCKING HEADS BOARD MEMBERS. HE AIN'T GONNA BE AROUND MUCH LONGER. HE MAY NOT EVEN MAKE IT THRU THIS SEASON WITH HIS CONCUSS ISSUES...
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You own the division by gloating about picking up a player that a bad team chose to cut?
That "bad team" (and I'm glad you freely admit it) didn't cut him because he can't play anymore, just that he can't play worth his elite contract was paying.
That's fine by me, we didn't need a elite, top 3, corner....we needed a upgrade over what we had on the roster and that's what we got.
Trust me, if Haden was willing to take a pay cut in Cleveland he'd still be your starter....
Win win STEELERS!
That "bad team" (and I'm glad you freely admit it) didn't cut him because he can't play anymore, just that he can't play worth his elite contract was paying.
There is a difference of opinion on that. Apparently Gregg Williams may have felt that he can't play any more, and was willing to part with him.
That's fine by me, we didn't need a elite, top 3, corner....we needed a upgrade over what we had on the roster and that's what we got.
Again, that is an admission of having absolutely piss poor defensive backfield. Joe has really played poorly lately....and yet he is an upgrade?
Trust me, if Haden was willing to take a pay cut in Cleveland he'd still be your starter....
I don't know. See above. Williams may not have started him by any means, at all. And he did just take a massive pay cut. He apparently is making the same with you as he would have if he accepted the pay cut here...if the Browns would have even kept him if he accepted a pay cut. I AM of the opinion that, since the Browns were in such good shape capwise, that there was no need to ask him to take a pay cut. That is why I put less credence in the "he would be here if he would have taken a pay cut" theory. I think this was primarily a performance cut, not a money cut.
Win win STEELERS!
Well, certainly if you think he is better than what you have on your roster now, then it is somewhat of a win for the Steelers. But....if he plays as he has....it is still also a Win for the WRs of the Steelers opponents.
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Thank you, Pittsburgh, for taking Haden off the Browns' hands. I think he'll be a complete bust for the Steelers, truthfully. He's been terrible for the Browns the last couple years. Between concussions and surgeries, he's not been on the field much, and when he has been, he's been burned for big plays more often than not.
Thank you, Pittsburgh, for taking Haden off the Browns' hands. I think he'll be a complete bust for the Steelers, truthfully. He's been terrible for the Browns the last couple years. Between concussions and surgeries, he's not been on the field much, and when he has been, he's been burned for big plays more often than not.
Some of the Joe fans aren't willing to admit (or have forgotten) Haden never had elite speed as cornerbacks go. He relied on technique. Injuries have sapped that marginal speed to the point the coaching staff viewed him as a liability. Plus, he's one concussion away from sitting out 1\2 the season.
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Oh, I freely admit our defensive backs aren't very good.
Anyone with eyeballs and any football IQ is able to easily identify that....in todays NFL you're never going to be strong everywhere and Pittsburgh has taken the road of "we're going to hang 30+ points on everyone.....we don't need great CBs, just ones that aren't awful.
And as I said, he'd still be in Cleveland if he would have taken a pay cut and would have been the starter. Every report out there was that the Clowns offered him around 7 million (that's not sh*tty CB money, that's solid but no longer elite money).
I mean if you're telling me that the Clowns are offering 7mill per year contract to a player that they don't even think can play anymore then I think I've already identified the organization's problems....
No Haden isn't what he was but he isn't garbage either and makes a position of obvious weakness on our team stronger.
The only other thing I hope is that he hangs a pick 6 on whatever jaggoff yinz have playing QB
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben.
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