Kizer
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Here is a scary statistic I heard on our radio show: Deshone Kizer is leading the NFL in passing attempts over 15 yards per game. Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous that is when you consider we have a rookie QB AND we don't have the personnel to really go deep consistently? One of the more frustrating aspects of the Ravens' game was that their offensive game plan looked EXACTLY like what ours SHOULD'VE been. Flacco started off with quick, short passes, and then he also had several bootlegs and waggles that took advantage of our aggressiveness and gave him EASY throws to the TE. High percentage throws that are easy to make...exactly what we needed. So what do WE dial up? Why, we dial up long pass, after long pass which leaves are young QB open to making errant passes and taking sacks. I just can't understand it.
I really think that if we're going to win, Kizer's stat line needs to look something like this: 15-24 for 165 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. If he's going to pass it 40 times a game, I think we're in trouble. It also goes without saying that our running game needs to come to life, and I think it will. For some reason, I think we WILL open the game up with short, quicker style throws, and I think we'll actually use this quick passing game to set up the run game. If you have Crow in fantasy, I'd really think about starting him this week. Not only do I think he's going to have a solid day on the ground, I think we're going to pass him the ball quite a bit too. Crow is a far better receiver than he's given credit for, and I can really see him being the bell cow both on the ground and in the air. Crow and Duke will both have good games, as I don't believe we'll be forcing the ball down the field NEARLY as often this game.
If you guys don't have access to the "all 22" view, consider yourself lucky. On about the 21st offensive play of the day, we had an 80 yard touchdown to Corey Coleman. I'm serious, you have no idea how open he was, and the reason you don't is because Kizer was sacked instead by Mosely. So how did we miss an 80 yard touchdown? Both Crow and Vitale mixed up their pass protection signals, and neither went to pick up Mosely, and BOTH went to the side of the pocket. It was one of the most "Cleveland Brownsiest" plays of all time, and it's literally the difference between having a big play, versus just being us. When I tell you that Corey Coleman was open and streaking down the field with NO DEEP HELP, I mean he was freaking open. Kizer could've just lobbed the ball up in the air for a huge play, and any decent throw is an 80 yard touchdown.
Listen, this next game is going to be ugly, and there's no way around that. The Colts are a shit show, but they at least lost in OT. Wouldn't that be nice right about now? To actually lose in OT versus turning it over 5 times? Well, maybe it wouldn't be nice, but you get the point. I don't think the Cardinals are the bastion of talent and efficiency, but they aren't a total waste either. The Colts KNOW they have to win this game in front of their home crowd, so we're going to get their A+ effort. We only win if we change our offensive game plan to include more quick passes, some misdirection rollouts, a FAR better running game, and one or fewer turnovers. We all know Kizer played terrible, so there's no real reason to go back over it. Instead, let's focus on how he'll respond. What does he do after playing the worst game in his life? Will he hesitate? Will he hold the ball LONGER because he's scared to turn it over? Or will he respond favorably? Don't forget Joe Flacco had a 5 interception game as a rookie (I think...I could be wrong). Many rookies have shitty games. Let's see how both Hue and Kizer respond, and let's see if we can actually start the game off QUICKLY for once.
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Some of you just don't get it.
All Kizer needs is better blocking.
Next draft we have to draft a Center, Right Tackle & Left Tackle of the future.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Some of you just don't get it.
All Kizer needs is better blocking.
Next draft we have to draft a Center, Right Tackle & Left Tackle of the future.
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Some of you just don't get it.
All Kizer needs is better blocking.
Next draft we have to draft a Center, Right Tackle & Left Tackle of the future.
Some of you just don't get it.
All Kizer needs is better blocking.
Next draft we have to draft a Center, Right Tackle & Left Tackle of the future.
Fucking fat ass offensive linemen....... DIME A DOZEN........................ and THIS is where this fuck hold team spends their money. Hey Hoorta....why don't you see if Joe Thomas will block for you at Wal Mart come Black Tarkenton Friday?
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Here's the problem guys(one of them, at least).....we have no receivers who demand extra attention. Plain and simple.
ALL our guys are getting single man coverage, without any help(every play)......which allows teams to stack the box against the run and STILL have the capability of covering our receivers....this allows them to cover both sides of the field....every play....
Add one blind RB....a rookie QB.....and a vanilla offensive scheme and this is what you get.....
Vanilla? What? Haven't you seen all the motion and movement Hue incorporates.....and all the trick plays that he constantly incorporates.....all of which has brought us so much success?
Vanilla? What? Haven't you seen all the motion and movement Hue incorporates.....and all the trick plays that he constantly incorporates.....all of which has brought us so much success?
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
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Vanilla? What? Haven't you seen all the motion and movement Hue incorporates.....and all the trick plays that he constantly incorporates.....all of which has brought us so much success?
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
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Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
"Huegottabelieve"/"Baby Steps"/"Trust me on this one"/"Hopefully will lead to success" https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/08/27/browns-rookie-quarterback-kizer-will-start-opener/105032476/ about paragraph 5..Hue"I think "It(Hue?)"will forward him the ability to run the offense as we move forward(?),which HOPEFULLY will lead to success" Edit--Does Hue reel in Kizer now after Ravens? HOPEFULLY>>>
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Mud, really, funny ass post. You go through the draft, preseason and 2 shit games, blasting me................. only to come in here and throw up into your own bush, admitting that what I have been saying since 1999 is the problem with the Browns. If your skilled players cannot challenge the opposing D, they stay home..........they ignore ALL YOUR PLAY CALLING..................they eliminate the need for you to have an offensive plan or play book. Opposing defenses have TWO SCHEMES against the Browns.
Jam the LIne
Don't double cover unless ony a couple guys run deep patterns.
Yawn again. Only problem is a lot of times, the Ravens weren't rushing 8- they didn't have to. Because as Mud pointed out, and I've said when you weren't paying attention- Kizer was getting sacked waiting for our lousy WRs to get open. Well it's T-Minus 24 hours for Gordon to get out of rehab jail, we'll see what happens there. FYI, bang on Coleman all you want, but about every pre-draft publication had him as the best WR prospect in that draft. FWIW, I didn't like that multiple trade down either- I wanted Carson Wentz.
I suppose you didn't bother to look at the DBN breakdown of every one of those 5 turnovers. Please notice the guy feebly attempting to get by Joe Thomas was an epic FAIL. Yeah- you can blame the qb. Both on one of the interceptions or the strip sack our GREAT offensive line gave Kizer plenty of time. In the case of one of the Ints, 4.5 seconds to be exact. So golly gee, your not so astute observation that Kizer hold the ball too long happens to be correct. The one in the endzone follows Hoorta's astute observation that Kizer isn't very accurate. He had Higgins open for a TD, and threw the ball 5 feet behind him. HIs first int was a poorly thrown ball to a wide open Duke Johnson for good measure. Hogan's Heroes was feeling it, and threw his interception almost 10 yards short into triple coverage. So do the math genius. Those three plays cost the Browns 13 points at least- and considering the Ravens scored a last minute TD off of Hogan's turnover- I can make a case based on a make\miss scenario the Browns might actually have won that game.
So repeat after me- YOU DON'T WIN GAMES IN THE NFL IF YOU TURN THE BALL OVER 5 TIMES
& LOL, OL doesn't make a difference? Toooo easy. According to Pro Football Focus, Hoyer's two games are second only to Andy Dalton of the Cincinnati Bengals in terms of awfulness, but at least Dalton has the excuse of playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league this season (31 total sacks, hits and hurries allowed, fifth-most). Bungles OL - Whitworth and Zeitler = suckage + potential to get your QB killed. Now what was that about 11-5?
Yawn again. Only problem is a lot of times, the Ravens weren't rushing 8- they didn't have to. Because as Mud pointed out, and I've said when you weren't paying attention- Kizer was getting sacked waiting for our lousy WRs to get open. Well it's T-Minus 24 hours for Gordon to get out of rehab jail, we'll see what happens there. FYI, bang on Coleman all you want, but about every pre-draft publication had him as the best WR prospect in that draft. FWIW, I didn't like that multiple trade down either- I wanted Carson Wentz.
I suppose you didn't bother to look at the DBN breakdown of every one of those 5 turnovers. Please notice the guy feebly attempting to get by Joe Thomas was an epic FAIL. Yeah- you can blame the qb. Both on one of the interceptions or the strip sack our GREAT offensive line gave Kizer plenty of time. In the case of one of the Ints, 4.5 seconds to be exact. So golly gee, your not so astute observation that Kizer hold the ball too long happens to be correct. The one in the endzone follows Hoorta's astute observation that Kizer isn't very accurate. He had Higgins open for a TD, and threw the ball 5 feet behind him. HIs first int was a poorly thrown ball to a wide open Duke Johnson for good measure. Hogan's Heroes was feeling it, and threw his interception almost 10 yards short into triple coverage. So do the math genius. Those three plays cost the Browns 13 points at least- and considering the Ravens scored a last minute TD off of Hogan's turnover- I can make a case based on a make\miss scenario the Browns might actually have won that game.
So repeat after me- YOU DON'T WIN GAMES IN THE NFL IF YOU TURN THE BALL OVER 5 TIMES
& LOL, OL doesn't make a difference? Toooo easy. According to Pro Football Focus, Hoyer's two games are second only to Andy Dalton of the Cincinnati Bengals in terms of awfulness, but at least Dalton has the excuse of playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league this season (31 total sacks, hits and hurries allowed, fifth-most). Bungles OL - Whitworth and Zeitler = suckage + potential to get your QB killed. Now what was that about 11-5?
I never said the Ravens or anyone else rushed 8. Of course they don't have to.... KIZER BLOWS HUE JACKSON BLOWS. THE BROWNS HAVE NO SKILLED PLAYERS.
What I said was, the Defense stays home, they don't bite on play fakes.....FIVE MEN CANNOT BLOCK 8. The offensive line is next to fucking meaningless. The Browns have NO SKILLED PLAYERS.
Colts win....Bengals Win
Enjoy your fucking all time high NFL paid OL. Means NOTHING.
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Vanilla? What? Haven't you seen all the motion and movement Hue incorporates.....and all the trick plays that he constantly incorporates.....all of which has brought us so much success?
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....
I don't think it's meant to 'fool' anyone. It's more to see 'who' moves with the players. To see if it tips the D's hand to some degree.
Ya know what I really hated in our past offenses? It's when we set up at the LOS and the D makes changes to their alignment (adjusting to what they see from us)...and we do NOTHING. We snap the ball and they stuff us.
The same with our D. The offense would see our alignment, the QB would bark out some signals, the offense would realign...and our D would do nothing. Then they'd run the play and succeed against our D.
I'm not a fan of 'trick' plays. It usually means putting guys in uncharacteristic positions and asking them to do things that they don't normally do...while the guys that normally DO do those things are doing things that THEY don't normally do. Usually we just trick ourselves.
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Vanilla? What? Haven't you seen all the motion and movement Hue incorporates.....and all the trick plays that he constantly incorporates.....all of which has brought us so much success?
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
and then run 3 fly routes and sometimes a deep curl.... INNOVATIVE!!!....GENIUS!!!
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@boo-fagley said:
Its true
Bens career is slipping away with only 1 super bowl to show for it.
What is slipping away is your fucking pea brain. Ben has played in 3 Superbowls. He has 2 wins and one loss. He is a HOF lock.
Tom Flugel was giving Phil Sewage and Romeo the Doughnut manscapes and chanting "In Sewage We Trust" when the Browns passed on Ben.
The Steelers are so much a better franchise than the Browns, and this is ALL TIME, not just since 1999, it is sickening. As the stats Stinks pointed out, since the AFL-NFL merger, and this is the real start of the modern era of the NFL, the browns have been a joke. Worse however, are Browns fans. Browns fans are actually convinced that they understand football better than anyone else. Browns fans believe that what Cleveland does is cutting edge and that people like me are just too uneducated to see the vision.
Yeah...............the vision..................DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN ACQUIRING PLAYMAKERS..........................Great fucking vision. How is that working out for you dickheads?
Tom Flugel was giving Phil Sewage and Romeo the Doughnut manscapes and chanting "In Sewage We Trust" when the Browns passed on Ben.
I'm glad you stopped tea-bagging your Terry Bradshaw poster long enough to notice. I LOVED winning 10 games in 2007. Savage and Romeo made you disappear like a Houdini rabbit for an entire season. What's not to adore?
And yes, I was very happy we didn't draft a serial rapist to be our franchise QB. Not much different than I felt about us avoiding your idea of Paxton Lynch as a franchise QB. Rumor has it, your boy Lynch is almost as smart as a pet rock.
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Tom Flugel was giving Phil Sewage and Romeo the Doughnut manscapes and chanting "In Sewage We Trust" when the Browns passed on Ben.
I'm glad you stopped tea-bagging your Terry Bradshaw poster long enough to notice. I LOVED winning 10 games in 2007. Savage and Romeo made you disappear like a Houdini rabbit for an entire season. What's not to adore?
And yes, I was very happy we didn't draft a serial rapist to be our franchise QB. Not much different than I felt about us avoiding your idea of Paxton Lynch as a franchise QB. Rumor has it, your boy Lynch is almost as smart as a pet rock.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
It is a main reason that he is being questioned in his decision making. He got a year of grace last year because things were so bad. But with a few games last year....and both games this year his play calling can come in for some serious questioning.
A parallel could be if Marty Schottenheimer had put in BK in his first game and started having him throw constant bombs as if he was Daryl Lamonica. That is NOT the way to groom a rookie QB. Hue is doing the opposite of Marty.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time.
Agreed.....
After telling us(repeatedly) that they would not rush him.....they did exactly that, while pretending that he actually beat out the other guys... .....and they are rushing him, with little to no support to boot....no running attack or WR's, along with a fledging OL is not the formula to "develop" a young QB.....It's a formula to fail and/or create a shell shocked, deer in the headlights QB......
I hope he rebounds this week and has a good game.....another performance like last week and we might start seeing confidence issues start to develop with this one....
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Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time.
Agreed.....
After telling us(repeatedly) that they would not rush him.....they did exactly that, while pretending that he actually beat out the other guys... .....and they are rushing him, with little to no support to boot....no running attack or WR's, along with a fledging OL is not the formula to "develop" a young QB.....It's a formula to fail and/or create a shell shocked, deer in the headlights QB......
I hope he rebounds this week and has a good game.....another performance like last week and we might start seeing confidence issues start to develop with this one....
I hope he rebounds this week and has a good game.....another performance like last week and we might start seeing confidence issues start to develop with this one....
If Hue does not Boner this up?...Leslie,Higgins,Duke & Dayes should have a nice day..Colts will more than likely throw most their keys at Crow imo..
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Trick plays??......I see excessive motion before plays(along with delay of game penalties)......Hues idea of a trick play is to move a bunch of guys, pre snap.....stupid shit that fools no one.....how about some creative "plays" Hue?.....how about some PA?.....how about plays that help your rookie team succeed?.....how about using the best tools you have....like 2 good RB's.....instead of leaning HEAVILY on your rookie QB and pathetic WR corps.....??????????????????????????????????????
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
It really is puzzling. Hue decides to start a very young, not terribly experienced rookie at QB but doesn't seem to do much to make it easier for him.
A lot of Hue's "complex" shifts are designed to prompt Defensive adjustments that reveal coverages... that is a from of simplification.
EDIT: Reading one more post would have saved me some time...
I don't think it's meant to 'fool' anyone. It's more to see 'who' moves with the players. To see if it tips the D's hand to some degree.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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