Kizer
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How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
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How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
Here's a serious question PoG:
Let's say Hogan had won the starting job out of training camp, and he had performed EXACTLY like Kizer has so far in the first two games.
Would you be calling for Kizer?
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How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
Unless he gets hurt or has another migraine, we're stuck with him PO. Sorry about that. He better improve. If not, I"m wasting 4 hours of driving and $180 bucks + probably a $10 beer to watch crap in person.
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How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
Look. The kid won the starting job in TC & preseason.
Blame that on the other 3 QB's (now down to 2). Or blame Hue's evaluation if you want. But the bottom line is that the rookie beat out the guys that have been here for a year.
NOW, we let the rookie take his lumps. We coach him up. When he comes off the field after a series you go over to him and coach him up (let Greg Williams Head Coach his defense at that point). - A great many rookie QB's did not look too great in their first year. It comes with the territory. It's still tackle football...but it's a faster brand of tackle football, with good players at ALL position (compared to college).
Sure, if you see consistent bad passes (like Brandon Weeden or Derick Anderson - throwing balls at the feet or waay behind receivers 8 yards in front of him) then maybe you decide that this guy just doesn't have the accuracy to play in the NFL. But the 'rookie mistakes' that Bradshaw, Aikman, EVERYBODY made/makes...those are things that ya just have to live and learn through.
They would not have spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer if the thought that Kessler or Hogan was going to be the answer. At this point we have to use this opportunity to find out if we need to draft our QB of the future again this coming April or not.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Game Three- Kizer starts. Kessler comes in after halftime. Hogan enters in the 4th Quarter for the first time really, down 3 to 9. Hogan drives the team to a FG, then again for the game winner.
Game Four- Browns sit out Brock, word is they plan to try and trade or outright release Osweiler- as they intended to do all along, just gave him snaps to appear to be interested when we all know they just wanted the draft pick. They also name Kizer the starter for the opener and sit him as well. So this last game is Kessler and Hogan. Of course, Hue's guy Kessler gets the start. Kessler puts up 7 points in the first half. Hogan takes the second half and puts up 18 points.
So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
How long do we play Kizer in Indy?
What if he's struggling and looks distressed?
What if he can't find clearly open guys?
What about throws that are erratic passes? ie. passes into the dirt or out of bounds to open receivers?
How many interceptions will you tolerate?
What about holding the ball and staring down wide receivers?
How about interceptions?
I'm just curious because according to Hue and some of you guys it doesn't matter, the kid could shit himself and you'd still want to trot him out there.
Look. The kid won the starting job in TC & preseason.
Blame that on the other 3 QB's (now down to 2). Or blame Hue's evaluation if you want. But the bottom line is that the rookie beat out the guys that have been here for a year.
NOW, we let the rookie take his lumps. We coach him up. When he comes off the field after a series you go over to him and coach him up (let Greg Williams Head Coach his defense at that point). - A great many rookie QB's did not look too great in their first year. It comes with the territory. It's still tackle football...but it's a faster brand of tackle football, with good players at ALL position (compared to college).
Sure, if you see consistent bad passes (like Brandon Weeden or Derick Anderson - throwing balls at the feet or waay behind receivers 8 yards in front of him) then maybe you decide that this guy just doesn't have the accuracy to play in the NFL. But the 'rookie mistakes' that Bradshaw, Aikman, EVERYBODY made/makes...those are things that ya just have to live and learn through.
They would not have spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer if the thought that Kessler or Hogan was going to be the answer. At this point we have to use this opportunity to find out if we need to draft our QB of the future again this coming April or not.
Look. The kid won the starting job in TC & preseason.
Blame that on the other 3 QB's (now down to 2). Or blame Hue's evaluation if you want. But the bottom line is that the rookie beat out the guys that have been here for a year.
NOW, we let the rookie take his lumps. We coach him up. When he comes off the field after a series you go over to him and coach him up (let Greg Williams Head Coach his defense at that point). - A great many rookie QB's did not look too great in their first year. It comes with the territory. It's still tackle football...but it's a faster brand of tackle football, with good players at ALL position (compared to college).
Sure, if you see consistent bad passes (like Brandon Weeden or Derick Anderson - throwing balls at the feet or waay behind receivers 8 yards in front of him) then maybe you decide that this guy just doesn't have the accuracy to play in the NFL. But the 'rookie mistakes' that Bradshaw, Aikman, EVERYBODY made/makes...those are things that ya just have to live and learn through.
They would not have spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer if the thought that Kessler or Hogan was going to be the answer. At this point we have to use this opportunity to find out if we need to draft our QB of the future again this coming April or not.
Pretty well sums things up as I see them as well.
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Game Three- Kizer starts. Kessler comes in after halftime. Hogan enters in the 4th Quarter for the first time really, down 3 to 9. Hogan drives the team to a FG, then again for the game winner.
Game Four- Browns sit out Brock, word is they plan to try and trade or outright release Osweiler- as they intended to do all along, just gave him snaps to appear to be interested when we all know they just wanted the draft pick. They also name Kizer the starter for the opener and sit him as well. So this last game is Kessler and Hogan. Of course, Hue's guy Kessler gets the start. Kessler puts up 7 points in the first half. Hogan takes the second half and puts up 18 points.
So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job.
So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job.
I hear ya. We didn't get to see much of Hogan during the preseason. And when he DID play it was against the FPMA (future pizza makers of america).
But he was on the team last year...so you have to figure that Hue knows his abilities.
He's promoted him above Kessler.....so there is that.
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So, I don't know where Kizer earned the starting QB job. He was pretty much given the job.
I hear ya. We didn't get to see much of Hogan during the preseason. And when he DID play it was against the FPMA (future pizza makers of america).
But he was on the team last year...so you have to figure that Hue knows his abilities.
He's promoted him above Kessler.....so there is that.
I hear ya. We didn't get to see much of Hogan during the preseason. And when he DID play it was against the FPMA (future pizza makers of america).
But he was on the team last year...so you have to figure that Hue knows his abilities.
He's promoted him above Kessler.....so there is that.
That FPMA is a classic line. While true it also means he was throwing to FPMA so I take some comfort in seeing he was the reason our FPMA played better than their FPMA. As much as I liked Kizer's long ball off a 5-7 step drop - those are all timing throws to an area where he wasn't asked to read or think (expediting the release). He either threw to the post or pylon. On the short to mid-range stuff, he's taking way too long to get rid of the ball or leave the pocket. That leads me to believe the processing of info is where he is not ready. Hogan looked way better and more comfortable with that last week except for the INT he threw.
I'm not sold Kizer WON the job or outperformed Hogan on a daily basis. He had 2 gorgeous deep throws to 2 different WRs (1 guy didn't make the team and the other plays as often as our water boys). Kizer has the same bionic arm Derek Anderson has so the Ravens watched enough film to keep him just as uncomfortable as teams began to keep Derek Anderson when he played himself out of starting lineups here and in Arizona. IMO, what makes a QB is the ability to process the information in front of him at the speed of the game with accurate throws.
If Kizer starts and plays well - I'm okay with keeping him in. But if he starts off shakey again this week, what's wrong with making a 21 year old rookie that should only be a junior at Notre Dame watch most of his 3rd NFL game from the sidelines? It's not like Kizer is a 1st round pick so what makes him special enough to white flag winnable games? Tom Brady didn't start 1 game as a rookie while Jared Goff also watched a bunch of games from the sidelines as a rookie. Again, even Kosar didn't start until about week 5 or 7 of his rookie year. I feel like we can ruin Kizer's career a lot like the Rams could have ruined Goff's career by playing him before he's ready. Why????
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Colin Kaepernick is still . . . . .
That new kid Kizer will probably be good or even great some day but why not win some games this season?
We already been through the Tim Ouch syndrome. Do we really need to go through that again?
CLE already had it's love fest with the police and army at their opening day ass-kissing event, so nobody will ever question that the Browns maybe don't love apple pie.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Hogan. Flugels is talking about HOGAN coming from a pro-style offense.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Gotcha
No worries War. Hopefully the post will make more sense to you now.
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Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan.
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan.
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
How dare you imply that Hogan is anything but a physical specimen.
PoG saw Hogan throw that football over that mountain.
The Browns would've definitely won state if Hue had put Hogan in. Hogan might have found his soul mate as a result.
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It's official, he stinks
It's official, he stinks
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
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It's official, he stinks
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.
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