Hogans Heroes
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Yup, Kizer is in a tailspin. With 11 games left, give the next 6 or so to Hogan unless he falls apart the way Hoyer did after getting everyone’s hopes up. After six weeks if Kevin looks like the guy, keep rolling him, if not see if Deshone has come around. best case scenario the Browns would shock the world to win 3 games, so we’re in for another long season regardless of who hue decides to play.
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Kizer needs to sit and Hogan needs to start as the true #1 QB. The concern over Kizer's psyche is irrelevant. It's obvious that Hogan gives the Browns a much better chance to score points. At this point I'm worried a lot more about the psyche of the team if Kizer continues to play. Players play to win - and the current history of losing needs to be stopped. Otherwise many of the most talented Browns players will walk when they hit free agency and sign with teams that they perceive will actually be competitive - leaving the Browns to plug the holes with rookie draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions. Rinse, repeat.
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Kizer needs to sit and Hogan needs to start as the true #1 QB. The concern over Kizer's psyche is irrelevant. It's obvious that Hogan gives the Browns a much better chance to score points. At this point I'm worried a lot more about the psyche of the team if Kizer continues to play. Players play to win - and the current history of losing needs to be stopped. Otherwise many of the most talented Browns players will walk when they hit free agency and sign with teams that they perceive will actually be competitive - leaving the Browns to plug the holes with rookie draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions. Rinse, repeat.
Kizer needs to sit and Hogan needs to start as the true #1 QB. The concern over Kizer's psyche is irrelevant. It's obvious that Hogan gives the Browns a much better chance to score points. At this point I'm worried a lot more about the psyche of the team if Kizer continues to play. Players play to win - and the current history of losing needs to be stopped. Otherwise many of the most talented Browns players will walk when they hit free agency and sign with teams that they perceive will actually be competitive - leaving the Browns to plug the holes with rookie draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions. Rinse, repeat.
This needs repeating. ^^^^ Hue said as much during preseason- did he change his mind? He shot his rep as a QB whisperer with RG III and Kessler.
All the other rookie QBs sat for a spell. It's SO obvious Kizer needs to do the same. You think vets like Kirksey don't realize Kizer is stinking up the place?
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DeShone Kizer or Kevin Hogan? Hue Jackson will decide by Wednesday
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/deshone_kizer_kevin_hogan_hue.html
Shared from my Google feed
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This quote from the article is a bit contradictory, "Like I said, my decision is what's best for the team. What's best for our team to put us in position to win? Also, what's best for DeShone? It's not just for the team, but what's best for him just so that he can feel like, 'OK, I am moving further along in this process and I'm understanding what I need to do to be better.' All of that will go into my decision"
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Straight and to the point I think PoeticG has this one right. Hogan is light years ahead of Kizer. I've resisted it, argued against it and made excuses. The fact is though the second he takes the field it's like an entirely different offense. He gets the ball out fast, throws a beautiful accurate catchable ball AND is a dual threat. There is no reason at all to start Kizer next week. PoG has fallen in love with some losers more than once but I have think he has this right.
Straight and to the point I think PoeticG has this one right. Hogan is light years ahead of Kizer. I've resisted it, argued against it and made excuses. The fact is though the second he takes the field it's like an entirely different offense. He gets the ball out fast, throws a beautiful accurate catchable ball AND is a dual threat. There is no reason at all to start Kizer next week. PoG has fallen in love with some losers more than once but I have think he has this right.
He nailed Derek Carr too.
Hogan has the "it" quality. He also has limitations, inexperience and propensity for untimely mistakes.
But that's a lot better than the guy who's starting now. If we truly want to win games right now, then Hogan is the guy.
Z
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Hogan appears to actually be everything Hue asserted Kessler would be : A game manager who can win now while our "future" waits.
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and he was just a rookie last year....technically, Kizer has more game experience than Hogan now....or very close to it...and we can see how good Kessler and Hogan looked as rookies, compared to Kizer as a rookie....they were both MUCH better....much much better...
much.....(lots).....notably better....notable.....offense moving...points.....etc
and he was just a rookie last year....technically, Kizer has more game experience than Hogan now....or very close to it...and we can see how good Kessler and Hogan looked as rookies, compared to Kizer as a rookie....they were both MUCH better....much much better...
much.....(lots).....notably better....notable.....offense moving...points.....etc
Except neither tried to play the way Hue wanted them to play. Why do you think that is? Might it have something to do with who has been starting?
We need throw a boat load of money at free agent qbs next year!!!!!
To lure which QB out of retirement? Difler? Delhomme? Garcia?
Been there... done that...
I'm beginning to have serious doubts about Kizer being our QBOTF, he sure as hell isn't the QB of the present. My anti Notre Dame bias aside, I'm seeing the same crap out of Deshone I saw in college.
Sorry Woody- you going to sacrifice any shred of hope winning a game just to develop one player? I don't care what Sashi says- Hue's playing for his job at this point. 1-20, and counting. FYI, at this rate, we can pass the '70s Tampa Bay Yuckaneers record of futility over two seasons. Historically awful. MHO is Jackson's coaching career is as sunk as the Titanic if he keeps playing Deshone.
You'd have to be blind to not see Hogan has clearly outplayed Kizer to this point.
In reverse order: No one is blind. No, he's not. Yes, I do. Watch some 2015 ND tape and get back to me. No he isn't, but he could be the QB of the future.
@boo-fagley said:
Kizer is a reactionary passer. Kizer waits for his WRs to break open and then throws the ball. By then its usually too late because the DBs are so fast and react to the ball in the air. Thats why he is sacked and throwing INTs like I change socks. Kizer is playing sand lot ball like back in college where you just make stuff happen on the fly. He is more comfortable off script.
Hogan is an anticipatory passer. Hogan has the ball away before the WR completes his route. Timing plays that avoid sacks. Hogan would rather stay on script.
May I borrow your All-22 log in info? You must have one and spend hours using it to come up with this evaluation.
Honestly, Im not sure why so many people are certain that Hogan isnt the answer.....
What is it about Hogan that says he cant be a better QB than Kizer??.....the arm?.....cause we all know strong arms do not a QB make....
Because we know the question?
You are correct that a strong arm does not make up for a complete lack of QB ability, but since it is not something that can be taught there will always be a fascination with strong-armed QBs.
Go around the league now and see the number that are starting with "average arms"... and competing for a playoff spot, let alone contending for a SB.
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Can someone please explain to me this ceiling that only Kizer has? Why are lots so certain he is our future? I just don't see it. Why can't Hogan be the future?
Both times we hit the red zone early with Kizer I just expected something to go wrong. As soon as I saw Hogan get in the game I expected to march down the field and score. I was right. Am I the only one that gets these feelings?
Can someone please explain to me this ceiling that only Kizer has? Why are lots so certain he is our future? I just don't see it. Why can't Hogan be the future?
Both times we hit the red zone early with Kizer I just expected something to go wrong. As soon as I saw Hogan get in the game I expected to march down the field and score. I was right. Am I the only one that gets these feelings?
As a courtesy to a Noob, I split your post out of the pack...
The difference in ceilings seen is all due to physical tools. They give Kizer the higher ceiling... a much higher ceiling IMO. Right now Hogan has the higher floor.
As for Kizer being the future... I can't speak for everyone here, but more than a few of us that want to continue to see him start do not know if he will be our future. That is why we want to see him start... to see what he can become.
As for Hogan being the future. I see him as being as good as he will ever be... right now. We can add pieces and support him better and win a little more thus achieving mediocrity, but that's it. That's what I see.
If you want to compete a little better in the short-term, start Hogan. If you want to win in the long-term, you start Kizer. Only one of them has the talent, the capacity to forestall spending one or more #1's on a QB in the 2018 Draft.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I would go to kizer and say look kid u need a little bit more work, we'll give the ball to hogan for a few games than more than likely see u again before the season is over. Its not like its all kizers fault, britt has done his part to ensure we dont know exactly where kizer is.
I really tho want to know who's Shmucking call it was to let helicopter go...that situation was "exactly" what we needed with two young kids on the squad. The decision should have been made between kessler and hogan. So we would have had kizer, one of the other guys and mccown. Perfect. Mccown prob could have come in the 2nd half of the jets game and won it. The week is back to one of the young guys and mccown brings you that easy going vet that coukd give a Sheet whether he starts the game and doesn't get his feelings hurt if he wins a game and the next week they start the young guy again. He even expressed direct interest in mentoring our young qb's didnt he? I mean Shmuck that one has to be on the FO cause they thought assoiler would be that guy.
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I haven't seen a Browns QB actually throw with anticipation for years.
Hoyer comes into mind
Hoyer comes into mind
Yup... He's the comp I come up with as well. Probably minus Brian's fragile psyche, but also minus some of his velocity.
Kizer needs to sit and Hogan needs to start as the true #1 QB. The concern over Kizer's psyche is irrelevant. It's obvious that Hogan gives the Browns a much better chance to score points. At this point I'm worried a lot more about the psyche of the team if Kizer continues to play. Players play to win - and the current history of losing needs to be stopped. Otherwise many of the most talented Browns players will walk when they hit free agency and sign with teams that they perceive will actually be competitive - leaving the Browns to plug the holes with rookie draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions. Rinse, repeat.
Which of these Browns that are not under contract for 2018 do you see as "Key Players" that we must keep?
Player Pos. 2017 Team 2018 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees Isaiah Crowell RB Browns UFA $2,746,000 $0 Josh Gordon WR Browns RFA $1,335,412 $3,727,638 Tank Carder ILB Browns UFA $1,250,000 $300,000 Matt McCants RT Browns UFA $855,000 $80,000 Marcus Martin LG Browns UFA $767,313 $671,252 Jamie Meder 43DT Browns RFA $615,000 $0 Chris Barker LG Browns ERFA $540,000 $0 T.Y. McGill 43DT Browns RFA $525,000 $0 Dan Vitale FB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kevin Hogan QB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Austin Reiter C Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kasen Williams WR Browns ERFA $457,500 $0 I'll wait...
Hogan will now be game planned. Hold your horses.
Not sure how much change there'd be outside of shortening the field you have to defend.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I would go to kizer and say look kid u need a little bit more work, we'll give the ball to hogan for a few games than more than likely see u again before the season is over. Its not like its all kizers fault, britt has done his part to ensure we dont know exactly where kizer is.
I really tho want to know who's Shmucking call it was to let helicopter go...that situation was "exactly" what we needed with two young kids on the squad. The decision should have been made between kessler and hogan. So we would have had kizer, one of the other guys and mccown. Perfect. Mccown prob could have come in the 2nd half of the jets game and won it. The week is back to one of the young guys and mccown brings you that easy going vet that coukd give a Sheet whether he starts the game and doesn't get his feelings hurt if he wins a game and the next week they start the young guy again. He even expressed direct interest in mentoring our young qb's didnt he? I mean Shmuck that one has to be on the FO cause they thought assoiler would be that guy.
I really tho want to know who's Shmucking call it was to let helicopter go...
I think there was a consensus to not keep Josh around as a player.
As was mentioned on the game broadcast Hue did offer Josh a job as QB Coach, but Josh wanted to keep playing some where he had a chance of starting.
Which does raise the question as to what he may have been told about our 2017 QB plans and how closed that competition would be. I suspect he was told we were going with youth to determine whether or not we had a long-term starter on the roster... something he could never be... and that the "youth" would include a freshly drafted prospect.
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Tour, so we are guaranteed to return everyone except for the guys on that list? Wow. Impressive. (of course not including cuts)
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Tour, so we are guaranteed to return everyone except for the guys on that list? Wow. Impressive. (of course not including cuts)
Tour, so we are guaranteed to return everyone except for the guys on that list? Wow. Impressive. (of course not including cuts)
Not guaranteed, but it seems it is an imperative.... /s
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Can someone please explain to me this ceiling that only Kizer has? Why are lots so certain he is our future? I just don't see it. Why can't Hogan be the future?
Both times we hit the red zone early with Kizer I just expected something to go wrong. As soon as I saw Hogan get in the game I expected to march down the field and score. I was right. Am I the only one that gets these feelings?
As a courtesy to a Noob, I split your post out of the pack...
The difference in ceilings seen is all due to physical tools. They give Kizer the higher ceiling... a much higher ceiling IMO. Right now Hogan has the higher floor.
As for Kizer being the future... I can't speak for everyone here, but more than a few of us that want to continue to see him start do not know if he will be our future. That is why we want to see him start... to see what he can become.
As for Hogan being the future. I see him as being as good as he will ever be... right now. We can add pieces and support him better and win a little more thus achieving mediocrity, but that's it. That's what I see.
If you want to compete a little better in the short-term, start Hogan. If you want to win in the long-term, you start Kizer. Only one of them has the talent, the capacity to forestall spending one or more #1's on a QB in the 2018 Draft.
As a courtesy to a Noob, I split your post out of the pack...
The difference in ceilings seen is all due to physical tools. They give Kizer the higher ceiling... a much higher ceiling IMO. Right now Hogan has the higher floor.
As for Kizer being the future... I can't speak for everyone here, but more than a few of us that want to continue to see him start do not know if he will be our future. That is why we want to see him start... to see what he can become.
As for Hogan being the future. I see him as being as good as he will ever be... right now. We can add pieces and support him better and win a little more thus achieving mediocrity, but that's it. That's what I see.
If you want to compete a little better in the short-term, start Hogan. If you want to win in the long-term, you start Kizer. Only one of them has the talent, the capacity to forestall spending one or more #1's on a QB in the 2018 Draft.
Tour- you're about the only one left in Kamp Kizer. Even Zombo who was big on Deshone has backed off. The PD poll was 92% in favor of starting Hogan this week. Even Hue is thinking about it after he reviewed the tape. Physical tools don't mean squat if you can't utilize them when the lights come on. How many combine workout warriors turned into flat out busts in the NFL?
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I'm seeing another Brandon Weeden\Derek Anderson in Deshone. Granted, he's more mobile than either. Can he improve? I sure hope so- but I have extreme doubts. & yeah, I know it's a small sample size in the pros. If you think I'm throwing him under the bus prematurely, go ahead. Even TCPO said he's probably never going to have top end accuracy- and that's a glaring, fatal flaw in my book. Almost all the top qbs are in the 65% completion category. Guess who checks in @ #10 this year so far? Hogan- with the same crappy receivers Kizer's been throwing to.
Winning in the long term with Deshone at the wheel will help us win in the long term- when we go 2-14, and draft Darnold, Allen, or Rosen in 2018.
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Hoyer comes into mind
Yup... He's the comp I come up with as well. Probably minus Brian's fragile psyche, but also minus some of his velocity.
Kizer needs to sit and Hogan needs to start as the true #1 QB. The concern over Kizer's psyche is irrelevant. It's obvious that Hogan gives the Browns a much better chance to score points. At this point I'm worried a lot more about the psyche of the team if Kizer continues to play. Players play to win - and the current history of losing needs to be stopped. Otherwise many of the most talented Browns players will walk when they hit free agency and sign with teams that they perceive will actually be competitive - leaving the Browns to plug the holes with rookie draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions. Rinse, repeat.
Which of these Browns that are not under contract for 2018 do you see as "Key Players" that we must keep?
Player Pos. 2017 Team 2018 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees Isaiah Crowell RB Browns UFA $2,746,000 $0 Josh Gordon WR Browns RFA $1,335,412 $3,727,638 Tank Carder ILB Browns UFA $1,250,000 $300,000 Matt McCants RT Browns UFA $855,000 $80,000 Marcus Martin LG Browns UFA $767,313 $671,252 Jamie Meder 43DT Browns RFA $615,000 $0 Chris Barker LG Browns ERFA $540,000 $0 T.Y. McGill 43DT Browns RFA $525,000 $0 Dan Vitale FB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kevin Hogan QB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Austin Reiter C Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kasen Williams WR Browns ERFA $457,500 $0 I'll wait...
Hogan will now be game planned. Hold your horses.
Not sure how much change there'd be outside of shortening the field you have to defend.
Which of these Browns that are not under contract for 2018 do you see as "Key Players" that we must keep?
Player Pos. 2017 Team 2018 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees Isaiah Crowell RB Browns UFA $2,746,000 $0 Josh Gordon WR Browns RFA $1,335,412 $3,727,638 Tank Carder ILB Browns UFA $1,250,000 $300,000 Matt McCants RT Browns UFA $855,000 $80,000 Marcus Martin LG Browns UFA $767,313 $671,252 Jamie Meder 43DT Browns RFA $615,000 $0 Chris Barker LG Browns ERFA $540,000 $0 T.Y. McGill 43DT Browns RFA $525,000 $0 Dan Vitale FB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kevin Hogan QB Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Austin Reiter C Browns ERFA $495,000 $0 Kasen Williams WR Browns ERFA $457,500 $0 I'll wait...
I never indicated that I was referring to 2018 free agents.
Bottom line: for the best interest of the team Kizer needs to sit. He's earned it.
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Ideally (with the benefit of hindsight), Hogan would've started last week against a relatively soft and forgiving Jets defense in Cleveland. Hogan is going to get his 2nd start of his career AT Houston, and that doesn't sound like very much fun. Yes, JJ Watt is out, but that doesn't mean the Texans' defense is any less potent. They had two awful games against two RED HOT QB's in Alex Smith and Tom Brady, and that's nothing to be ashamed of if you ask me. They shut down Mariota (and his backup), and they kept Andy Dalton out of the end zone (same guy who looked like Mr. Universe against us). They also made life difficult for Bortles, who didn't have to do much because Houston started Savage who couldn't do a darn thing. I say all of this because Hogan is going to have a difficult time against a Texans defense who prides itself on keeping the score low and terrorizing marginal QB's.
Godspeed Mr. Hogan, you're not going into a pleasant scene this weekend. Oh, for an added bonus, we get to see the QB we SHOULD'VE drafted. So that's fun.
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