The... I am batting (maybe alone) for the front office thread
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It really hinges on one thing: can this FO find the franchise QB. If they can hit on 3 of their first five picks this year including QB, this team is playoff bound in 2019. This defense is a few key pieces and some maturation away from being seriously good. This offense is a QB and some maturation away from being more than good enough to win. Either way, I’m not going to let millionaires running around chasing a ball ruin my life.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
Josh Gordon is coming back, Coleman is coming back, Njoku, Duke, Devalve, whoever gets drafted. If that isn’t enough then we haven’t answered the QB question. The right Qb Will be able to open things up for duke, dayes, whoever gets drafted in the 5th round, and the run game will be just fine.
Of course they need to make good picks on the offensive side of the ball, but none of them come close to the importance of a QB.
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The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
Josh Gordon is coming back, Coleman is coming back, Njoku, Duke, Devalve, whoever gets drafted. If that isn’t enough then we haven’t answered the QB question. The right Qb Will be able to open things up for duke, dayes, whoever gets drafted in the 5th round, and the run game will be just fine.
Of course they need to make good picks on the offensive side of the ball, but none of them come close to the importance of a QB.
Josh Gordon is coming back, Coleman is coming back, Njoku, Duke, Devalve, whoever gets drafted. If that isn’t enough then we haven’t answered the QB question. The right Qb Will be able to open things up for duke, dayes, whoever gets drafted in the 5th round, and the run game will be just fine.
Of course they need to make good picks on the offensive side of the ball, but none of them come close to the importance of a QB.
Who in the building knows a good QB?
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Josh Gordon is coming back, Coleman is coming back, Njoku, Duke, Devalve, whoever gets drafted. If that isn’t enough then we haven’t answered the QB question. The right Qb Will be able to open things up for duke, dayes, whoever gets drafted in the 5th round, and the run game will be just fine.
Of course they need to make good picks on the offensive side of the ball, but none of them come close to the importance of a QB.
Who in the building knows a good QB?
Who in the building knows a good QB?
That’s a really good question. Hopefully at some point the FO realizes they can’t keep adding 20 new players a year to the roster and they just get the top Qb prospect. Either that or they luck into a franchise guy like Seattle, New England, Dallas, Washington, Oakland etc.
my guess is they’ll keep swinging on mid round guys until one sticks or they’re fired, we will see which one comes first.
Edit: the good news is that using 2nd 3rd 4th round picks means they can cycle through quickly and not have to waste multiple years on a bad pick just because he was a first rounder. Might as well use one 2nd and one 5th on the QB position every year until they have their guy
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I go back and forth on the FO and probably will continue to flip-flip, but right now I see a few things:
A- Hue is not a good head coach. He seems unable to put his offense in good situations and does not utilize his best weapons. He calls plays how HE wants to call plays, rather than adapting to the strengths/weaknesses of his players. And hes a terrible game manager.
B- Williams is the exact opposite. While unpopular to move Peppers so far back, we really have given up far less big plays in the passing game this year compared to years prior. He is the real deal and this D has a chance to be great. But please dont talk about making him our HC... even interim.
C- The FO has minimized the importance of experience. When they are making cuts and see the younger player is performing equally to the vet they have ALWAYS cut the vet. The problem is instincts that guys in year 1-3 just havent developed. Even if that only shows up on 1-2 plays a game, that can make a huge difference in Ws and Ls.
D- Other than Wentz, I dont think this FO has missed on a franchise QB. Im not sold on Watson yet and Dak came out of nowhere. Give the Eagles credit for their gutsy move. These guys realized they needed TONS of talent for a QB to have a chance to succeed and Wentz was kind of a risky pick anyway. Its a shame none of those WRs have worked out, but in reality if you hit on 50% of your draft picks then you're extremely lucky.
In all, Im 100% against Hue staying but I can see the FO pulling this off. With a better coach and 3-4 vets on the roster (kicker included- thats 2-3 Ls itself) I think we'd be seeing more progress. Id give them 1-2 more years to build the roster and allow them to find a new HC and OC to get the most out of these young players before I go back to the carousel of reboots... oh and they NEED to get a QB.... like fast.
PS- my plan for QB is to draft the top prospect at #1 or 2 AND make a HUGE push for Cousins. We have the picks and $$ to add both this coming year. Why not reinvent that position group with Cousins, rookie stud, Kizer...
Just my $0.02. Hate away...
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I go back and forth on the FO and probably will continue to flip-flip, but right now I see a few things:
A- Hue is not a good head coach. He seems unable to put his offense in good situations and does not utilize his best weapons. He calls plays how HE wants to call plays, rather than adapting to the strengths/weaknesses of his players. And hes a terrible game manager.
B- Williams is the exact opposite. While unpopular to move Peppers so far back, we really have given up far less big plays in the passing game this year compared to years prior. He is the real deal and this D has a chance to be great. But please dont talk about making him our HC... even interim.
C- The FO has minimized the importance of experience. When they are making cuts and see the younger player is performing equally to the vet they have ALWAYS cut the vet. The problem is instincts that guys in year 1-3 just havent developed. Even if that only shows up on 1-2 plays a game, that can make a huge difference in Ws and Ls.
D- Other than Wentz, I dont think this FO has missed on a franchise QB. Im not sold on Watson yet and Dak came out of nowhere. Give the Eagles credit for their gutsy move. These guys realized they needed TONS of talent for a QB to have a chance to succeed and Wentz was kind of a risky pick anyway. Its a shame none of those WRs have worked out, but in reality if you hit on 50% of your draft picks then you're extremely lucky.
In all, Im 100% against Hue staying but I can see the FO pulling this off. With a better coach and 3-4 vets on the roster (kicker included- thats 2-3 Ls itself) I think we'd be seeing more progress. Id give them 1-2 more years to build the roster and allow them to find a new HC and OC to get the most out of these young players before I go back to the carousel of reboots... oh and they NEED to get a QB.... like fast.
PS- my plan for QB is to draft the top prospect at #1 or 2 AND make a HUGE push for Cousins. We have the picks and $$ to add both this coming year. Why not reinvent that position group with Cousins, rookie stud, Kizer...
Just my $0.02. Hate away...
I go back and forth on the FO and probably will continue to flip-flip, but right now I see a few things:
PS- my plan for QB is to draft the top prospect at #1 or 2 AND make a HUGE push for Cousins. We have the picks and $$ to add both this coming year. Why not reinvent that position group with Cousins, rookie stud, Kizer...
Just my $0.02. Hate away...
Only things about Cousins. Teams that think they're only a QB away will make a big splash for Kirk. Like Denver? Doubtless the Redskins will do everything they can to keep him on top of it. If you were Cousins where would you rather play? He might well take a little less to play for a team that has real playoff potential, not a year down the road. I don't think the Browns will be able to say they're that close- yet. We're not getting him as a one year rent-a-player either. It's going to be a multi-year contract on the high side of $100 million. It's going to turn into a bidding war deluxe. Yeah, in our dream world it would be great to have Cousins for four years, while our #1 overall draft pick sits and watches ala Green Bay with Favre and Rodgers. Finally if the current FO is 1\2 intact, doubt they will show much interest. Cousins turns 30 next year, and we're on a youth and build through the draft mode.
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It really hinges on one thing: can this FO find the franchise QB. If they can hit on 3 of their first five picks this year including QB, this team is playoff bound in 2019. This defense is a few key pieces and some maturation away from being seriously good. This offense is a QB and some maturation away from being more than good enough to win. Either way, I’m not going to let millionaires running around chasing a ball ruin my life.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
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The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
The problem is that when you look up Sashi pisses down into the well. He could use the toilet but traded down to just using the well.
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We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
The problem is that when you look up Sashi pisses down into the well. He could use the toilet but traded down to just using the well.
The problem is that when you look up Sashi pisses down into the well. He could use the toilet but traded down to just using the well.
And when you piss in your well, you drink what you pee. So say confucious?
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There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
Except, of course NFL teams have hired lawyers to run their teams. I checked it out and like 5 current NFL GMs have law degrees....including some successful teams.
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It really hinges on one thing: can this FO find the franchise QB. If they can hit on 3 of their first five picks this year including QB, this team is playoff bound in 2019. This defense is a few key pieces and some maturation away from being seriously good. This offense is a QB and some maturation away from being more than good enough to win. Either way, I’m not going to let millionaires running around chasing a ball ruin my life.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
Well....would Gordon and Coleman be those guys?
And whatever happened to Matthew Dayes?
And defense need DBs....a good shutdown corner. (but do you trust this FO to not pick another Justin Gilbert?)
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Josh Gordon is coming back, Coleman is coming back, Njoku, Duke, Devalve, whoever gets drafted. If that isn’t enough then we haven’t answered the QB question. The right Qb Will be able to open things up for duke, dayes, whoever gets drafted in the 5th round, and the run game will be just fine.
Of course they need to make good picks on the offensive side of the ball, but none of them come close to the importance of a QB.
Who in the building knows a good QB?
Who in the building knows a good QB?
Which building?
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The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
5 picks, first two rounds....so what do we take? A QB? WR? RB? DBs....OT? I think the answer is: yes to all.
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The offense needs not only a QB but it needs receivers who can get open and probably a good RB as well. Defense is closer for sure.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, more than enough to fill the gaps we have both sides of the ball. Then they have to gain experience playing together. I'm pretty sure that 3 years is the minimum to see anything different, but I (and others) have been talking 3-5 years, like it or not. It takes time to turn talented youngsters into full blown monster teams that people fear to play. It's just hell getting from here to there. Nobody likes it and it's hard to be a believer when you're climbing out of the bottom of the well and can only see a little light at the top.
I totally agree, however, we've had that the last 3 or 4 years and we traded those assets away (down).
To us fans (me anyway), the fix is simple. It should be to Haslam as well....tell this FO to DRAFT playmakers or else you aren't employed any longer. Quit trading away the present for the future, cash in these picks in 2018. IF Haslam does that, there really is no reason to fire anybody.
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Still have yet to hear the back office own this AJ McCarron debacle and the shows a lack of leadership and lack of balls by Jimmah
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Jesus...folks are losing their minds around here...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Jesus...folks are losing their minds around here...
1-23 tends to do that Tour, Yuckaneers 2-26 over two seasons. Um, 4 more in a row surpasses that level of suckitude.
I think we expected bad, but historically bad? Z said it best- a win or two this year would have quieted the racket calling for another blow up.
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Jesus...folks are losing their minds around here...
1-23 tends to do that Tour, Yuckaneers 2-26 over two seasons. Um, 4 more in a row surpasses that level of suckitude.
I think we expected bad, but historically bad? Z said it best- a win or two this year would have quieted the racket calling for another blow up.
1-23 tends to do that Tour, Yuckaneers 2-26 over two seasons. Um, 4 more in a row surpasses that level of suckitude.
I think we expected bad, but historically bad? Z said it best- a win or two this year would have quieted the racket calling for another blow up.
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
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Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 100?
A: Your Honor.
Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50
A: Senator. -
I have answered that question probably a dozen times hoss. Look around.
You said in another thread :
Why do you believe, so hardly, that Sashi's process will probably work?
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
You said in another thread :
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.
Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
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