2017 QBs who are: 1. Holding back their teams. 2. Elevating their teams.
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Just to put in perspective Hogan has 7 career interceptions in 101 attempts and Kizer has 14 in 313 attempts. Meaning Hogan would have 21 picks if he had as many horrific attempts as Kizer....
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Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sck Sack/Lost Rating DeShone Kizer 313 166 1823 53.0 5.8 5 1.6 14 4.5 44 24 152 57.2 Kevin Hogan 75 46 517 61.3 6.9 4 5.3 5 6.7 49 6 35 71.9 So let's see this- Kizer has roughly 4x the amount of attempts as Hogan...
Kevin Hogan 300 184 2068 61.3 6.9 16 5.3 20 6.7 ? 24 140 ?
So okay, we extrapolate out into the future and we see that Hogan is better pretty much everywhere. It shows that Kizer has ALREADY been sacked 24 times. It shows Kizer has lost more yards on sacks, that Kizer loses on yards gained and on completions. It shows that Kizer's 5 TDS are eye opening and his dismal.
FYI- 3 of Hogan's INTs came of no consequence. Two of them came just before halftime in which there was no time on the clock, simple throw it up and hope someone makes a play types. So here I'll give Hogan a little credit, he wouldn't have 20 INTs so far. I'd say 10 to 12 would be an okay number but his 16 TDs (possibly more) would offset that discrepancy. HOWEVER, Kizer's 5 TDs to 14 INTs is astounding!!! Great job Kitanic!!! Woo Hoo!!! You guys have hitched your wagon to the right guy, that's for sure. Please, keep telling me that Kizer should start! lol
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Nowhere was I saying Kizer was good. Just saying Hogan has just as much potential to turn the ball over (if not more), and you always are adamant about how Kizers turnovers are such an issue like in the quote below.
”How about his season turnovers? What about his inaccuracy or his lack of touch? Is it any surprise Coleman dropped that pass, probably never in a million years did he expect it to go where it was supposed to, hell- I bet Kizer was even surprised. A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. Sorry but 1 accurate pass out of 8 attempts does not scream QBOTF. Kizer blows and I can't wait until we're done with his entitled butt.“
They all blow POG. Love your enthusiasm but Hogan, nor Kessler nor Kizer are the QBOTF.
On a side note I’m sure there was a pick or two of Kizers that went bouncing off one of our dumbass receivers hands straight into the DB’s hands (not that it matters). So the argument that his picks didn’t matter is ludicrous.
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lol... really...
Kizer, or any other CLE QB, ain't holding back Sheet... at least not very far. Not with the WR corps and run game we've had to date.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
lol... really...
Kizer, or any other CLE QB, ain't holding back Sheet... at least not very far. Not with the WR corps and run game we've had to date.
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The Biggest holdback is Kizer, because he's taking plays away from THE GUY who is ready for this.
I count Kizer the biggest holdback because as the guy that leads this team at QB we're 0-11.
There is no way Hogan could be worse. No way Hogan could be worse than Kessler has been.
No way~ I know the Texans game will be brought up, but check this, had Hogan had preseason starts and reps with the first team he would have been even better ready for the Texans.
Hogan has this team competitive... and there is no argument for Kizer if it's not that him starting is intentionally losing for a high draft pick. He's the scapegoat. Well, even then it doesn't hold up because what if HOGAN is THE GUY. Then in the draft we can build the offense around his skillset and strengths and we'd have a chance at something special next year. Instead, I hope not, but maybe they take the wrong rookie QB next year and it's another rookie starting all season that can't get it... I know Hogan can execute at this level. He just needs an opportunity.
Hogan to Gordon for the game winner in SD. Bank on it.
Crazy Kev also elevates the guys around him when he's in the game. Ask Njoku or DeValve. or any of the practice squad players he's gotten elevated to the active roster.
The Biggest holdback is Kizer, because he's taking plays away from THE GUY who is ready for this.
I count Kizer the biggest holdback because as the guy that leads this team at QB we're 0-11.
There is no way Hogan could be worse. No way Hogan could be worse than Kessler has been.
No way~ I know the Texans game will be brought up, but check this, had Hogan had preseason starts and reps with the first team he would have been even better ready for the Texans.
Hogan has this team competitive... and there is no argument for Kizer if it's not that him starting is intentionally losing for a high draft pick. He's the scapegoat. Well, even then it doesn't hold up because what if HOGAN is THE GUY. Then in the draft we can build the offense around his skillset and strengths and we'd have a chance at something special next year. Instead, I hope not, but maybe they take the wrong rookie QB next year and it's another rookie starting all season that can't get it... I know Hogan can execute at this level. He just needs an opportunity.
Hogan to Gordon for the game winner in SD. Bank on it.
Crazy Kev also elevates the guys around him when he's in the game. Ask Njoku or DeValve. or any of the practice squad players he's gotten elevated to the active roster.
Fuhuck you and your Hogan horseshite. Do you have to ruin just about every thread with you fuyucking stupid, ignorant obsession. Fuyucking faggot.
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1. Holdbacks... My simple criteria is a candidate's team has to be a playoff contender in every other way.
- Bortles is clearly the poster child for holdback QBs. Using my criteria I'm not sure that I see another... not at this point in the season anyway.
- A bit earlier Big Ben seemed to be there as did Matt Ryan, but both seem to now be rounding into playoff form.
- Winston is one addition I might make, but I don't think the Bucs are as good as their Hard Knocks hype made them out to be.
- Mariotta crossed my mind as well, but again not a clear enough cut case to my mind.
2. Elevators... Opposite criteria, i.e., without this QB playing as well as he is, the team would not be a playoff contender.
- Easy first for me is Case Keenum. Not as easy a choice were Cook still playing, but since he went down what Case has done with the remaining Offense has been nothing short of great. I have to grant that in part this is a result of less than stellar expectations for Keenum, but even knowing that he tops my list. His mobility has brought a badly needed element to the Vikes' Offense.
- And... there's not an easy 2nd. Plenty of other good to great QBs playing on great to good teams. Were he still taking the field Watson in Houston would be an easy addition as he ignited that team... but he's not... so he's not.
- The only other serious consideration I see right now is Russell Wilson. Without him, and in particular his running, I think the 'Hawks marginal playoff aspirations would vanish.
1. Holdbacks... My simple criteria is a candidate's team has to be a playoff contender in every other way.
- Bortles is clearly the poster child for holdback QBs. Using my criteria I'm not sure that I see another... not at this point in the season anyway.
- A bit earlier Big Ben seemed to be there as did Matt Ryan, but both seem to now be rounding into playoff form.
- Winston is one addition I might make, but I don't think the Bucs are as good as their Hard Knocks hype made them out to be.
- Mariotta crossed my mind as well, but again not a clear enough cut case to my mind.
2. Elevators... Opposite criteria, i.e., without this QB playing as well as he is, the team would not be a playoff contender.
- Easy first for me is Case Keenum. Not as easy a choice were Cook still playing, but since he went down what Case has done with the remaining Offense has been nothing short of great. I have to grant that in part this is a result of less than stellar expectations for Keenum, but even knowing that he tops my list. His mobility has brought a badly needed element to the Vikes' Offense.
- And... there's not an easy 2nd. Plenty of other good to great QBs playing on great to good teams. Were he still taking the field Watson in Houston would be an easy addition as he ignited that team... but he's not... so he's not.
- The only other serious consideration I see right now is Russell Wilson. Without him, and in particular his running, I think the 'Hawks marginal playoff aspirations would vanish.
Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
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Real talk 100% authentic, no gimmick. Gimmicks are for the simple minded with little dicks.
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Suggestion to the Mods: put on an autocorrect that whenever the name Hogan is typed, it autocorrects to "CumsinPOGmouth"...or something.
You do it with Teddy Twatwater...and a few others.
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1. Holdbacks... My simple criteria is a candidate's team has to be a playoff contender in every other way.
- Bortles is clearly the poster child for holdback QBs. Using my criteria I'm not sure that I see another... not at this point in the season anyway.
- A bit earlier Big Ben seemed to be there as did Matt Ryan, but both seem to now be rounding into playoff form.
- Winston is one addition I might make, but I don't think the Bucs are as good as their Hard Knocks hype made them out to be.
- Mariotta crossed my mind as well, but again not a clear enough cut case to my mind.
2. Elevators... Opposite criteria, i.e., without this QB playing as well as he is, the team would not be a playoff contender.
- Easy first for me is Case Keenum. Not as easy a choice were Cook still playing, but since he went down what Case has done with the remaining Offense has been nothing short of great. I have to grant that in part this is a result of less than stellar expectations for Keenum, but even knowing that he tops my list. His mobility has brought a badly needed element to the Vikes' Offense.
- And... there's not an easy 2nd. Plenty of other good to great QBs playing on great to good teams. Were he still taking the field Watson in Houston would be an easy addition as he ignited that team... but he's not... so he's not.
- The only other serious consideration I see right now is Russell Wilson. Without him, and in particular his running, I think the 'Hawks marginal playoff aspirations would vanish.
Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
I think you’re seeing in Green Bay just how much Rodgers means to that team.
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Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
For me the key in New England are the coaches. No matter who gets injured/traded, they keep getting the team ready and become a contender. But Brady has had seasons with ''no name receivers'' and still had great QB numbers.
I don't agree when people say ''Belichick would be nothing without Brady'' or ''Brady would be nothing without Belichick'' etc (same goes for last year Dallas, for example). I think both have achieved unknown limits (5 SBs, 7 appearances and I don't know how many AFC Championship appearances in a cap salary era...) simply because both are the best at their job and benefit from each other.
His stats are 279/408 68.4 % 3,374 Yards 8.3 Avg yards 26TD 3INT 111.7 Qbr
At this rate he's going to end up near 5,000 yards (there have been 9 over 5,000 yard quaterback seasons in the history)
If he's not elevating his team, I don't know what he's doing...
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Is it just normal to overlook Brady because he is just so obvious? Or is it just that it goes unsaid that yea...Brady is up here on a pedastal....and when we talk about this sort of thing we are really just discussing mere mortals. Ergo Brady is taken out of the equation because he is not a mere mortal?
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
And I don't see that at all. Without Brady....the Pats have exactly -0- titles. They would be good likely. Playoff contenders, on the order of the Browns in 1994 under BB.
But it IS TB that has won them their titles. He elevates that team from potential playoff contender....to perenial Champion.
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For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
I think you’re seeing in Green Bay just how much Rodgers means to that team.
I think you’re seeing in Green Bay just how much Rodgers means to that team.
Right....hell....they may be the Browns best chance for a win without Rodgers.
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For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
For me the key in New England are the coaches. No matter who gets injured/traded, they keep getting the team ready and become a contender. But Brady has had seasons with ''no name receivers'' and still had great QB numbers.
I don't agree when people say ''Belichick would be nothing without Brady'' or ''Brady would be nothing without Belichick'' etc (same goes for last year Dallas, for example). I think both have achieved unknown limits (5 SBs, 7 appearances and I don't know how many AFC Championship appearances in a cap salary era...) simply because both are the best at their job and benefit from each other.
His stats are 279/408 68.4 % 3,374 Yards 8.3 Avg yards 26TD 3INT 111.7 Qbr
At this rate he's going to end up near 5,000 yards (there have been 9 over 5,000 yard quaterback seasons in the history)
If he's not elevating his team, I don't know what he's doing...
For me the key in New England are the coaches. No matter who gets injured/traded, they keep getting the team ready and become a contender. But Brady has had seasons with ''no name receivers'' and still had great QB numbers.
I don't agree when people say ''Belichick would be nothing without Brady'' or ''Brady would be nothing without Belichick'' etc (same goes for last year Dallas, for example). I think both have achieved unknown limits (5 SBs, 7 appearances and I don't know how many AFC Championship appearances in a cap salary era...) simply because both are the best at their job and benefit from each other.
His stats are 279/408 68.4 % 3,374 Yards 8.3 Avg yards 26TD 3INT 111.7 Qbr
At this rate he's going to end up near 5,000 yards (there have been 9 over 5,000 yard quaterback seasons in the history)
If he's not elevating his team, I don't know what he's doing...
Sure....its not that BB would be "nothing" without Brady. They would be a contending team.
But like I said.....Brady makes them a constant championship team.
(and I would have used the word "perennial" again...but I was having trouble spelling it. I think this may be right.
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The Biggest holdback is Kizer, because he's taking plays away from THE GUY who is ready for this.
I count Kizer the biggest holdback because as the guy that leads this team at QB we're 0-11.
There is no way Hogan could be worse. No way Hogan could be worse than Kessler has been.
No way~ I know the Texans game will be brought up, but check this, had Hogan had preseason starts and reps with the first team he would have been even better ready for the Texans.
Hogan has this team competitive... and there is no argument for Kizer if it's not that him starting is intentionally losing for a high draft pick. He's the scapegoat. Well, even then it doesn't hold up because what if HOGAN is THE GUY. Then in the draft we can build the offense around his skillset and strengths and we'd have a chance at something special next year. Instead, I hope not, but maybe they take the wrong rookie QB next year and it's another rookie starting all season that can't get it... I know Hogan can execute at this level. He just needs an opportunity.
Hogan to Gordon for the game winner in SD. Bank on it.
Crazy Kev also elevates the guys around him when he's in the game. Ask Njoku or DeValve. or any of the practice squad players he's gotten elevated to the active roster.
The Biggest holdback is Kizer, because he's taking plays away from THE GUY who is ready for this.
I count Kizer the biggest holdback because as the guy that leads this team at QB we're 0-11.
There is no way Hogan could be worse. No way Hogan could be worse than Kessler has been.
No way~ I know the Texans game will be brought up, but check this, had Hogan had preseason starts and reps with the first team he would have been even better ready for the Texans.
Hogan has this team competitive... and there is no argument for Kizer if it's not that him starting is intentionally losing for a high draft pick. He's the scapegoat. Well, even then it doesn't hold up because what if HOGAN is THE GUY. Then in the draft we can build the offense around his skillset and strengths and we'd have a chance at something special next year. Instead, I hope not, but maybe they take the wrong rookie QB next year and it's another rookie starting all season that can't get it... I know Hogan can execute at this level. He just needs an opportunity.
Hogan to Gordon for the game winner in SD. Bank on it.
Crazy Kev also elevates the guys around him when he's in the game. Ask Njoku or DeValve. or any of the practice squad players he's gotten elevated to the active roster.
Your entire post went over my head... like a pass from Kevin Hogan. Hahaha
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For me it's that NE is so damn good everywhere that had Tom Terrific gone down this season, I think Jimmy G would likely have led them into the playoffs and possibly as far as the AFC Championship game.
Brady is a great QB... greatest of all time in my book in part because there have been seasons when he has clearly elevated the team around him significantly. I just don't see this as being one of those years.
I think you’re seeing in Green Bay just how much Rodgers means to that team.
I think you’re seeing in Green Bay just how much Rodgers means to that team.
Absolutely... but he's not playing right now.
For me the key in New England are the coaches. No matter who gets injured/traded, they keep getting the team ready and become a contender. But Brady has had seasons with ''no name receivers'' and still had great QB numbers.
I don't agree when people say ''Belichick would be nothing without Brady'' or ''Brady would be nothing without Belichick'' etc (same goes for last year Dallas, for example). I think both have achieved unknown limits (5 SBs, 7 appearances and I don't know how many AFC Championship appearances in a cap salary era...) simply because both are the best at their job and benefit from each other.
His stats are 279/408 68.4 % 3,374 Yards 8.3 Avg yards 26TD 3INT 111.7 Qbr
At this rate he's going to end up near 5,000 yards (there have been 9 over 5,000 yard quaterback seasons in the history)
If he's not elevating his team, I don't know what he's doing...
Filling a role? Saying the coaches are key is akin to talking about "the system"... a system for which Tom is the trigger man. It's a symbiotic relationship deluxe.
His 2017 campaign is only one game shy of his 2016 regular season thanks to deflategate. Let's compare them...
2016* 39 NWE QB 12 12 12 11-1-0 291 432 67.4 3554 28 6.5 2 0.5 79 8.2 9.3 12.2 296.2 112.2 83.0 15 87 7.76 8.81 3.4 2 2 13 2017 40 NWE QB 12 11 11 9-2-0 279 408 68.4 3374 26 6.4 3 0.7 64 8.3 9.2 12.1 306.7 111.7 74.8 24 144 7.48 8.37 5.6 1 1 Trying to look at the heavier lift. Case can be made for either year based on different stats, but I go to a couple things.
- The defending SB Champs added talent... Cook at WR and Gilmore at CB.
- Since Week 4 the Pats have the #1 D in the league.
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Suggestion to the Mods: put on an autocorrect that whenever the name Hogan is typed, it autocorrects to "CumsinPOGmouth"...or something.
You do it with Teddy Twatwater...and a few others.
Suggestion to the Mods: put on an autocorrect that whenever the name Hogan is typed, it autocorrects to "CumsinPOGmouth"...or something.
You do it with Teddy Twatwater...and a few others.
What is the story behind the autocorrect of a certain Vikings QB?
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