Dorsey Hired
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Not sure if in the 9 pages and counting the link to this article was posted. It's a good, fairly quick read.
The John Dorsey Dismissal: Where It Went Wrong in K.C.
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/kansas-city-chiefs-john-dorsey-fired-nfl-notebook
The article goes bit deeper into a couple of the issues mentioned a couple posts along the way here. For example...
Given the power each then wielded, the stock criticism of Dorsey—that while he’s incredibly respected as an evaluator, he’s more scout than manager—was validated with a level of disorganization that was noticeable before the hyper-organized Ballard departed, and obvious after he left for Indy.
As one source explained it, “It wasn’t dysfunction so much as it was decisions were being made that seemed to come out of nowhere. So that existed, but the people here weren’t aware that ownership was aware of it. … You look back now, how it worked out, and ownership was more aware that it didn’t need to be run that way.”
There were also a few flash points to prove it out over the past 18 months:
• The selection of Stanford quarterback Kevin Hogan in the fifth round of the 2016 draft. That move stunned scouts and coaches, based on the evaluation and meetings leading up to the draft. Hogan didn’t wind up making the team four months later, and started last season on the Browns’ practice squad.
So? We have Hogan to thank/blame/whatever for having Dorsey here. What does that mean for PoG? Here is one answer:
So? We have Hogan to thank/blame/whatever for having Dorsey here. What does that mean for PoG? Here is one answer:
Great song.. Always loved this band..
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So? We have Hogan to thank/blame/whatever for having Dorsey here. What does that mean for PoG? Here is one answer:
Great song.. Always loved this band..
Great song.. Always loved this band..
The Faith Healer off of Next... is my ultimate Alex Harvey track. I love it... Otherwise the LP is uneven, but has more highs than lows. All the highs, including The Faith Healer and GangBang, were written by Harvey and McKenna.
Tomorrow Belongs to Me is the other LP I have by them... nowhere near as good... only one Havery/McKenna collaboration.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
lol... Don't look now, but next year is year three. I love the clinging to the "quick turnaround" myth.
Also love that you give Sashi credit for managing the cap, but damn him for the manner in which he did it.
As for Hue's "narrative"... did you expect Hue to say, "I saw an opening and shoved AJ so far up Sashi's a$$ that there was no way he could stay afloat?" lol...
As for Sashi's next job... was thinking about this a lil last nite... running thru candidates. Anyway I came up with three criteria:
- Teams that haven't won it all.
- Teams that have been competitive recently, but are now falling.
- Teams that have ownership with a reputation for being "thrifty".
The name that fits? Cincinnati Bengals... No idea if it actually happens, but I could see Mike Brown loving the idea of turning the Browns abandoned approach back on them.
Year 3, too early to tell but what's your expectations for the Browns? I had us at 4 wins this year, and border line playoffs next. MHO is 2017 = Epic Fail, who knows 2018? But it better be at least 8 wins. Teams have gone from dumpster fires to the Super Bowl in that time frame.
Regarding the Bengals, hmmmm. Maybe. Mikey does like to stick it to the Browns. But Mike's daughter Katie Blackburn is their GM in training when Brown passes on. Sashi would just be their Cap guy, he'd never get roster control in Cincy.
Year 3, too early to tell but what's your expectations for the Browns? I had us at 4 wins this year, and border line playoffs next. MHO is 2017 = Epic Fail, who knows 2018? But it better be at least 8 wins. Teams have gone from dumpster fires to the Super Bowl in that time frame.
Regarding the Bengals, hmmmm. Maybe. Mikey does like to stick it to the Browns. But Mike's daughter Katie Blackburn is their GM in training when Brown passes on. Sashi would just be their Cap guy, he'd never get roster control in Cincy.
I called it 2 wins, +/- 1. The Steeler will most likely kick the schidt out of New England and wrap up the home field advantage, The Steelers won't play anyone and the Browns best chance to win will be playing the Steelers 4th stringer and Duquesne Tamburitzan musicians.
Total poosy team. Poosy fans.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Year 3, too early to tell but what's your expectations for the Browns? I had us at 4 wins this year, and border line playoffs next. MHO is 2017 = Epic Fail, who knows 2018? But it better be at least 8 wins. Teams have gone from dumpster fires to the Super Bowl in that time frame.
Regarding the Bengals, hmmmm. Maybe. Mikey does like to stick it to the Browns. But Mike's daughter Katie Blackburn is their GM in training when Brown passes on. Sashi would just be their Cap guy, he'd never get roster control in Cincy.
I called it 2 wins, +/- 1. The Steeler will most likely kick the schidt out of New England and wrap up the home field advantage, The Steelers won't play anyone and the Browns best chance to win will be playing the Steelers 4th stringer and Duquesne Tamburitzan musicians.
Total poosy team. Poosy fans.
I called it 2 wins, +/- 1. The Steeler will most likely kick the schidt out of New England and wrap up the home field advantage, The Steelers won't play anyone and the Browns best chance to win will be playing the Steelers 4th stringer and Duquesne Tamburitzan musicians.
Total poosy team. Poosy fans.
We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
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I called it 2 wins, +/- 1. The Steeler will most likely kick the schidt out of New England and wrap up the home field advantage, The Steelers won't play anyone and the Browns best chance to win will be playing the Steelers 4th stringer and Duquesne Tamburitzan musicians.
Total poosy team. Poosy fans.
We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
Off the top of my head da Browns- at least once. '99 Tim Couch, '00 Courtney Brown. I think there were others. Plus it's happened the Redskins had the #2 & #3 in one year.
OK I did research it, (thanks, Wiki) the Yuckaneers of the '70s accomplished the same feat, '76, '77. Ancient history Cardinals '39, '40. More recently, Da Bungles of ''94 & '95 ( Dan Wilkinson and Ki-Jana Carter) the Browns will be the only team to have accomplished that level of suckitude twice.
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Great song.. Always loved this band..
The Faith Healer off of Next... is my ultimate Alex Harvey track. I love it... Otherwise the LP is uneven, but has more highs than lows. All the highs, including The Faith Healer and GangBang, were written by Harvey and McKenna.
Tomorrow Belongs to Me is the other LP I have by them... nowhere near as good... only one Havery/McKenna collaboration.
The Faith Healer off of Next... is my ultimate Alex Harvey track. I love it... Otherwise the LP is uneven, but has more highs than lows. All the highs, including The Faith Healer and GangBang, were written by Harvey and McKenna.
Tomorrow Belongs to Me is the other LP I have by them... nowhere near as good... only one Havery/McKenna collaboration.
McKenna is an awesome drummer too.. I have heard him with other bands and he's blended right in.. I love midnight moses too.. Fun guitar parts in that song....
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How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
Off the top of my head da Browns- at least once. '99 Tim Couch, '00 Courtney Brown. I think there were others. Plus it's happened the Redskins had the #2 & #3 in one year.
OK I did research it, (thanks, Wiki) the Yuckaneers of the '70s accomplished the same feat, '76, '77. Ancient history Cardinals '39, '40. More recently, Da Bungles of ''94 & '95 ( Dan Wilkinson and Ki-Jana Carter) the Browns will be the only team to have accomplished that level of suckitude twice.
Off the top of my head da Browns- at least once. '99 Tim Couch, '00 Courtney Brown. I think there were others. Plus it's happened the Redskins had the #2 & #3 in one year.
OK I did research it, (thanks, Wiki) the Yuckaneers of the '70s accomplished the same feat, '76, '77. Ancient history Cardinals '39, '40. More recently, Da Bungles of ''94 & '95 ( Dan Wilkinson and Ki-Jana Carter) the Browns will be the only team to have accomplished that level of suckitude twice.
We should go for three. Browns have made history before we should do it again
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I dont see sashi getting another high level job. His name is not one that is well thought of right now in many circles. If you just want a guy to come in and trade down, you can find anyone to do that and not take the pr hit.....
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
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Year 3, too early to tell but what's your expectations for the Browns? I had us at 4 wins this year, and border line playoffs next. MHO is 2017 = Epic Fail, who knows 2018? But it better be at least 8 wins. Teams have gone from dumpster fires to the Super Bowl in that time frame.
Regarding the Bengals, hmmmm. Maybe. Mikey does like to stick it to the Browns. But Mike's daughter Katie Blackburn is their GM in training when Brown passes on. Sashi would just be their Cap guy, he'd never get roster control in Cincy.
I called it 2 wins, +/- 1. The Steeler will most likely kick the schidt out of New England and wrap up the home field advantage, The Steelers won't play anyone and the Browns best chance to win will be playing the Steelers 4th stringer and Duquesne Tamburitzan musicians.
Total poosy team. Poosy fans.
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We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
Looks like 6 times unless I missed one... and two is the longest.
- Browns '99 and 2000
- Bengals '94 and '95
- Bucs '86 and '87
- Bucs '76 and '77
- CHI Cardinals '39 and '40
- Eagles '36 and '37
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We'll see if Hue jumps in the Lake. But he said 1-15, he didn't say anything about 0-16.
Regarding the Steelers- yeah, they can have Fan Appreciation Day- let a few fans suit up for a play or two. I honestly believe the Steelers could play their backups and still beat the Browns. Ravens will kill the Browns Sunday. BTW, ESPN is now giving the Browns a 99% probability of landing the first overall pick.
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
How many times in NFL history has the same team had consecutive #1 picks? Anyone know? Gipper? What's the longest streak of consecutive #1's?
They do have this thing called Google in which you can look stuff up.
Nevertheless, here is your answer:
1936 and 1937 Eagles, Jay Berwanger and Sam Francis
1939 and 1940 Cardinals Ki Aldrich and George Cafego
1976 and 1977 Buccaneers Leroy Selmon and Ricky Bell
1986 and 1987 Buccaneers Bo Jackson and Vinny Testaverde
1994 and 1995 Bengals Dan Wilkinson and Kijana Carter.
1999 and 2000 Cleveland Browns Tim Couch and Courtney Brown
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I dont see sashi getting another high level job. His name is not one that is well thought of right now in many circles. If you just want a guy to come in and trade down, you can find anyone to do that and not take the pr hit.....
I dont see sashi getting another high level job. His name is not one that is well thought of right now in many circles. If you just want a guy to come in and trade down, you can find anyone to do that and not take the pr hit.....
- Not "well thought of" in "many", means he is well thought of by some.
- How many "circles" are you in?
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
O-H....
F-U-C-K...
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
Actually....he was more critical of the Ray Famer regime than the Sachi regime. He said he has no clue why a team would pick someone #8 overall (Justin Gilbert) when they didn't even go to scout him...or talk to him...and learn that he was completely blase about playing football.
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I dont see sashi getting another high level job. His name is not one that is well thought of right now in many circles. If you just want a guy to come in and trade down, you can find anyone to do that and not take the pr hit.....
- Not "well thought of" in "many", means he is well thought of by some.
- How many "circles" are you in?
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
O-H....
F-U-C-K...
- Not "well thought of" in "many", means he is well thought of by some.
- How many "circles" are you in?
I can only read what is on put online....but we'll see if he gets another GM level job. My guess is no. no point in taking the pr hit- like it or not, the first thing people think about when Sashi is mentioned are Carson Wentz and 1-whatever it was....
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''
It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.
"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.
"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''
Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.
"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''
Actually....he was more critical of the Ray Famer regime than the Sachi regime. He said he has no clue why a team would pick someone #8 overall (Justin Gilbert) when they didn't even go to scout him...or talk to him...and learn that he was completely blase about playing football.
Actually....he was more critical of the Ray Famer regime than the Sachi regime. He said he has no clue why a team would pick someone #8 overall (Justin Gilbert) when they didn't even go to scout him...or talk to him...and learn that he was completely blase about playing football.
I remember Brandon Weeden going on record, maybe a year after Gilbert was drafted, saying something to the effect of "If the Browns had asked me, and they didn't, I would have told them that I would recommend them taking a hard pass on (Weeden's ex-OK State teammate) Justin Gilbert."
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Justin Gilbert absolutely killed us. He was supposed to be someone that impacted the game on a weekly basis, and we all know the story. Many other teams, including the Steelers, desperately wanted to draft Justin, so it wasn't just us who goofed. Still, we screwed up and took him, and we're still paying for it.
The dream draft for many fans is a QB at #1, and then Minkah Fitzpatrick. Mock drafts are streaming out by the dozens, and while we all know the real draft will look drastically different, it's safe to say that getting Minkah will take an act of God. The Texans will have to lose out, AND we'll need some immense luck for him to fall to us. However, many didn't believe Malik Hooker would be available to us last year, and when he fell into our laps, we didn't draft him and we traded back (shocking I know). Hooker was having a typical rookie season before a serious knee injury, but he still flashed big time potential. Anybody see big time potential from Jabril Peppers? Didn't think so.
My advice to Dorsey would be to "keep it simple, stupid". Don't try to be the smartest person in the room. If a renowned talent is available to you early in the first year, TAKE HIM. Don't trade back in hopes of drafting a player without a real position who will be forced to play somewhere he doesn't really fit because you're too stupid to draft a guy with any experience (ahem, Peppers again). And if you DO trade down in the first round, don't go so far back that you miss out on the best talent. Many fans will groan reading this, but trading down isn't always the worst idea. If we get our QB at 1, and then there's a QB desperate team who wants to move up to our Texans pick, then fleece them. But make SURE you don't fall all the way into the 20's. The other thing is, draft football players with POSITIONS. We don't have TIME for freaking projects right now. We need draft picks that will translate to production. Obviously there's no sure fire way to get this right, but again...I direct you to the Peppers pick.
John Dorsey has repeatedly said that he will take the "best player available". That's fine and good, but the best player available also MUST fill a hole. It shouldn't be difficult because we have so many, but FILL THE DARN HOLES. We need QB, WR, RB on offense. We need CB, FS, and a linebacker who can freaking COVER SOMEBODY on defense. I would basically guarantee that we're taking a free safety and a CB with two of our first 5 picks. Heck, we might even take TWO corners with those picks. It's a PASSING LEAGUE people, and there's a direct correlation to stopping the pass and WINNING games. Jacksonville is great at stopping it. Playoffs. Baltimore is great at it. Winning record. Pittsburgh. Playoffs. Go back and look at the top ten teams defending the pass, and look at their record. Where do WE rank? 30th.
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