Quinn at Browns camp ahead of Jamarcus at Raiders camp
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@danamal said:
This is the last time im going to weigh in on a QB issue.The Browns have one of the most richest and storied franchises in the NFL and we lost our team ,anyone who has ever been a Browns fan not only was the loss of our team mindblowing but it was really painful not having our team on the field during football season while we waited for our return.
Since our return we have had to endure alot of rebuilding and tweaking and coaching that has been frustrating as hell and all real Browns fans want is a team that can compete, be a force and bring home a trophy sooner than later.
Amidst all this teaking and what not we have had a string of awful to mediocre at best QB's and any team that has achieved any level of success has had a leader and it is usually your QB who fills that role.
DA is acceptance of mediocrity and the biggest reason we want to see what else we have.
who knows, maybe you're right. but i think there's something there and just because he hasn't been all pro by 24 yrs old doesn't mean there's not potential there. you don't hand people the start>>>they have to be the best guy.
Quinn may not be the man and im fine with that but I want to know sooner than later because DA had his shot and he aint the man.
what about that Seattle Seahawks game, the one in Frenchies thread many are claiming to be one of the greatest all time since the return? you can't deny that was a great game. he brought the team back from a 14 pt defecit, led the team to victory, and all the players rallied behind him in the process. show me one player to verify he's not a leader, that he doesn't have hunger or a commanding presence on the field. one Brown to say they don't respect him. i don't think he's ever folded, he just runs plays. i think the gameplan and playcalling has failed him much more than he's ever failed us.This team needs leadership and a field general that commands this teams respect and thirsts to play in the big game rather than fold like a cheap two dollar hooker when he is asked to bring his team together and get it done.
Qb is the face of the city ,team and franchise and something this team hasnt had since it's return so all this QB talk in my opinion stems from this and why we want a stud QB rather than settling for average ,we have waited to damn long.
i think this is the root of it all danamal. Quinn makes a sexier poster, literally and figuratively. and that's about the long and short of it. -
The fact you say the finger wasnt serious enough to effect his game shows your true colors.
Total fuking moron.
So done with reading your posts... sad day.
AdaM said:
The fact you say the finger wasnt serious enough to effect his game shows your true colors.Total fuking moron.
So done with reading your posts... sad day.
and the personal attachment to the issue and anger shows yours. if the finger affected his ability to play whatsoever there is no way he'd ever step foot on the field. this ain't Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Brett Farve we're talking about. it's essentially a rookie in his first start, and you want to convince yourself if the finger was really jacked he'd still play over Anderson.
now who's delusional? baby steps Adam...i understand this is difficult for you...it will get easier, i promise.
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AdaM said:
The fact you say the finger wasnt serious enough to effect his game shows your true colors.Total fuking moron.
So done with reading your posts... sad day.
and the personal attachment to the issue and anger shows yours. if the finger affected his ability to play whatsoever there is no way he'd ever step foot on the field. this ain't Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Brett Farve we're talking about. it's essentially a rookie in his first start, and you want to convince yourself if the finger was really jacked he'd still play over Anderson.
now who's delusional? baby steps Adam...i understand this is difficult for you...it will get easier, i promise.
and the personal attachment to the issue and anger shows yours. if the finger affected his ability to play whatsoever there is no way he'd ever step foot on the field. this ain't Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Brett Farve we're talking about. it's essentially a rookie in his first start, and you want to convince yourself if the finger was really jacked he'd still play over Anderson.
now who's delusional? baby steps Adam...i understand this is difficult for you...it will get easier, i promise.
Finger didn't get injured until half way through the first quarter of the buffalo game.
Yeah, I could definitely see Quinn FINALLY getting on the field after DA's shitfest and then saying "Hey Coach, My finger isnt letting me throw like I'm used to, you should probably bench me"
Do you realize how idiotic you are sounding?
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@jadbf said:
See this is where you lose me. You do realize a finger injury is NOT SOMETHING a medical exam can prove or disprove how bad it is. It's all in how much it hurts and affects the throwing motion. So the coach has to ask the player "How's it feel, think you can go?" and ofcourse the player is gonna say. "I'm fine coach! put me in!" even when it's not.you'll notice AFTER they pulled him in the next start. HE HAD SURGERY to repair it. It wasn't some little injury.
so you do show your own bias.
again. don't tell me DA beat Quinn out for 3 years when RAC was the guy making the decisions. He's proved he sucked at decisions.
yeah, RAC's involvement might skew it a bit, but Sherer was assistant head coach as well. they would realize Quinn would say anything to keep playing but the finger wasn't swollen or affecting his throws so it appeared fine. none of us know if it actually did affect his game, but in the Texans game on the play that got him yanked there wasn't an eligible Brown anywhere near that pass he threw.
players get surgery for everything. the fact it required surgery means little, and shows they wanted it to heal properly. well, that's my take at least.
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and the personal attachment to the issue and anger shows yours. if the finger affected his ability to play whatsoever there is no way he'd ever step foot on the field. this ain't Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Brett Farve we're talking about. it's essentially a rookie in his first start, and you want to convince yourself if the finger was really jacked he'd still play over Anderson.
now who's delusional? baby steps Adam...i understand this is difficult for you...it will get easier, i promise.
Finger didn't get injured until half way through the first quarter of the buffalo game.
Yeah, I could definitely see Quinn FINALLY getting on the field after DA's shitfest and then saying "Hey Coach, My finger isnt letting me throw like I'm used to, you should probably bench me"
Do you realize how idiotic you are sounding?
AdaM said:
Finger didn't get injured until half way through the first quarter of the buffalo game.Yeah, I could definitely see Quinn FINALLY getting on the field after DA's shitfest and then saying "Hey Coach, My finger isnt letting me throw like I'm used to, you should probably bench me"
Do you realize how idiotic you are sounding?
my bad, 2nd start. cut me some slack, i'm busy here. i've got them all recorded and it really changes nothing. he continued to play the rest of the game, without swelling impeding his mechanics apparently, and then proceeded to practice all that week>>then started again. the team would not start a guy who would pose an obvious detriment to the team's success, no way. that is, unless he was instructed to by their "big" boss. and still not if there were obvious limitations caused by the finger.
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@shepwrite said:
Yeah, Quinn fractured the index finger of his throwing hand halfway through the first quarter of his second start. He played through and tore a tendon, too.That's serious shit and almost impossible to imagine even trying to play with. I get that they didn't know how bad it was in that second start and it was like zero degrees anyway, so nobody was gonna pass very well. But then he should've sat.
good point about the cold, that would make a difference to some extent.
you see what's happening here though? out of about a thousand words i posted we're nitpicking over me using a person's finger as the excuse and missing the big picture. it was about quinn getting the key to the city and benefit of the doubt at every turn and Anderson being portrayed as a pariah. what about his throws into triple and quadruple coverage, anyone care to refute that? or will we explain that away into the finger file as well?
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@jadbf said:
also if the finger really wasn't that bad...then WHY? after DA got hurt, didn't they put Quinn back in? are you saying they didn't think Quinn was better than the rest of the QBs they threw out there??come on...your arguement just makes little sense.
i can't explain why Crennel did a lot of the things he did, but i believe it was because of his decision-making on the field. or maybe you can't put a guy back in after you pull him, per NFL rules. or maybe you don't second-guess a decision after pulling someone. i'm not a head coach, and don't know head coach protocol.
@jadbf said:
Also, you're saying players get surgery when it's not really needed and the injury isn't that bad all the time????no, i'm saying NFL players sometimes get surgery for things when you or i wouldn't.
we're really talking about nothing here and i'm just replying out of respect at this point.
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pretty hard to spin that. thanks Aloysius for digging it up.
his "roots" seem to refer more to geography than it does his fandom, especially when the supporting evidence is a picture taken when his parents were still buying his clothes and dressing him. all that pic says to me is his parents are Browns fans.
many of you guys in this thread are guilty of exactly what you accuse Lumbergh of being. i'm not so much a DA fan as i am a guy who respects results over potential. along with being a fan of underdogs by nature and one who can't help but despise the mainstream, i consider myself fairly neutral regarding our QB's. the homer Quinn bias is obvious to me and it entertains me that so many of you would be so blatantly hypocritical.
So you're not really a Browns fan either, you just happened to be born in Ohio? Or you're not a true Browns fan until you pay for your 1st jersey?
Am I really reading this shit?
Look, the post Al dug up is no doubt legit, but it contains the words of a driven individual. Do you want your offensive leader (and someone also looking to finally get paid for the dedication of the last 10 years of their life) to tell the press/whomever that he "can wait to be drafted whenever the Browns feel like it? Hell, if they just invite me for a look at camp, that'd be cool enough." Come on, buddy.
D&S was just trying to spin the facts so it would appear that BQ only became a Browns fan once he was drafted by them. Much like he only became one when DA went airborne for four hundsky vs. Cincy. And we're all calling out his bullshit.
D&S was just trying to spin the facts so it would appear that BQ only became a Browns fan once he was drafted by them.
I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
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@jadbf said:
Now we explain that away by saying he's still essentially a rookie when it comes to real game appeances. AND ALL BECAUSE of that paragon of coaching you want to hang your hat on called RAC. The difference between Quinn and DA are that DA has more than a season full of being THE STARTING QB of the Cleveland Browns with the full support of the coaches and front office and team. So the judgements you can make on DA's game are based on a sampling to evaluate his total game as a QB. where as with Quinn we have 1 healthy start and 2 starts that are questionable as to his health. So it's easier for me to make the statement that I DON'T FEEL DA will be able to overcome his weaknesses because he hasn't yet. Do I believe it's a possibility? yes. But when I see a guy on the bench with potential, I'd rather see what he has for more than 3 games. If after a full season of starting, Quinn still has issues, then it might be time to talk about looking for the next guy again.I can't fathom why this is so hard to understand. One guy you have a book on to make your judgment and the book has some high points, but over all it needs some editing. The other guy, you have only read the dedication of the book.
c'mon now JADBF, i saw holes in RAC's coaching too. it's just those are unknowns, we can't assume it was RAC those times any more than we can assume it wasn't. just like how we don't know DA had the full support of the coaches, front office, and team. RAC had tight lips and ran his ship that way, many things we believe to be totally true could in fact be myths.
So it's easier for me to make the statement that I DON'T FEEL DA will be able to overcome his weaknesses because he hasn't yet.
why can't this statement apply to Quinn as well? if Quinn can beat out Anderson, i'll have a lot of confidence in him. otherwise, i hope he continues to develop because Savage sold the farm to get him and it's now year three. the last thing i want is for him to get a free pass and develop out there on the field, allowing his escalators to kick in and potentially putting the entire franchise in "cap-hell" singlehandedly...without totally being sure he's the guy.i believe i understand you're take: you want to put a product on the field regardless of whether it's the best they've got, just because it's an unknown.
here's mine: that book doesn't need read on the field. he makes it to the field when he beats out the rest of the guys we've got on the roster, not before. and that's the way it should be.
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@jadbf said:
but you were using it to say Quinns finger wasn't that serious.your right, the surgery helped the finger heal more quickly...but that only lends FURTHER WIEGHT to the fact that it was a serious injury that they wanted to get fixed quicker.
the finger the finger the finger. **mental note--remind me never again to mention the finger**
surgery helped ensure that the finger (tendon) healed properly. allowing it to heal more quickly was an extra bonus.
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D&S was just trying to spin the facts so it would appear that BQ only became a Browns fan once he was drafted by them.
I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
they know very well what you meant D&S, you said it clearly here:
I have seen outside claims that the Browns were his childhood favorite, and I don't doubt that, but he often claimed he wanted to be #1, even to the point of saying head to head he was more NFL ready than Russell.
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D&S was just trying to spin the facts so it would appear that BQ only became a Browns fan once he was drafted by them.
I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
Quinn was purposely held out of the first camp as to not interfere with the competition between DA and Frye, which DA lost.
You always make this stupid shit up D&S
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If DA beats out BQ then we better start looking at the front office again.
Your not turning down picks for Quinn if you think DA even has a shot at beating him out.
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You respect results?
So what results has DA delivered consistently? He's consistenly inconsistent, that's about it. The fact you keep pimping him tells me that you DON'T respect 'results over potential'.
Give me a xxxxing break, 'Mr. Neutral'. There's a Quinn bias here, because we're sick of watching Anderson throw games away, and we want to see what the guy who was highly touted, won a lot of games at Notre Dame and set records while there can do. I can't name one poster who is on this board because he is a 'Brady Quinn' fan. If it were Sanchez, or any other QB we picked in the first round sitting behind Anderson, we'd STILL feel the same way. Hell, look at the way we felt with Couch and Holcomb.
There is no bias 'for Quinn' per se. There's a bias against seeing a guy shit the bed every time he's put into a pressure situation.
Jesus. Some people go beyond Retarded.
now why you gotta get all personal, lemosley? that's how you can differentiate who the Quinnies are, those of you who are apparently personally invested in Quinn's success, taking offense and wading in here, tossing around the personal attacks. (i don't mind them though, it's been my style too.)
what results has DA delivered consistently? now Lem, how in the world can Derek consistently improve when Lerner is trumping Romeo's authority and yanking the guy in the second year of his development? in this land of McDonald's drive thru's and Netflix-instantly-streaming movies i can understand the "right now" attitude of Americans, but you need to break out of that mold when it comes to QB's. like i said, he was 22, 23, and 24 years old when you've seen him. some QB's don't even get their first start until they're that old. this kid has a ton of experience for his age and many would see value in that. so why don't a lot of Browns fans? because he's sitting beside a potential superstar? maybe. but based upon what? college? lmao. if he was all that it would've shown up already. he hasn't been that guy, but i'm old enough to realize he could still become that guy. and the same goes for Derek Anderson.
"HE'S HAD LONG ENOUGH, DAMMIT!!"
why are his showings ages 22-24 the end all be all with Derek and w/ Quinn it's always "the finger", "it wasn't Quinn vs the Broncos on the scoreboard", "Quinn was playing behind an
unprepared, disorganized, unmotivated and undisciplined team"...
why doesn't Derek get the same good will? he played through a concussion after all, while the finger wasn't even serious enough to affect his game.
your post earlier about him only having 3 days to prepare (you actually morphed it to 2 lol) is just more excuses for him. it's more like he had a season and a half to prepare. the #2 prepares every day to be the starter, not just that week. that gameplan was so vanilla it was laughable. as Brady came to the sidelines to review he displayed the quintessential "deer in the headlights" look as Derek merely glanced over to absorb the same information. it was telling to those that wanted to see it, as Derek appeared to have full grasp of what was happening. at least that's how i saw it.
"we're not willing to bet the franchise on him [DA], and you have a young guy who has shown some promise, so it's his time"...but said guy hasn't even been able to beat out the old guy to get the start. why do we need to supercede the coaches and award a guy "his time" if he can't win the start on his own? that's all i'm asking. if Quinn wins the competition, we'll know he's improved beyond where he was last year in his development.
There is no bias 'for Quinn' per se. There's a bias against seeing a guy shit the bed every time he's put into a pressure situation.
that's a load of crap, otherwise you'd be in favor of him adding some more tools to his toolbox and taking us to the promised land. you do care who that guy is who takes us there and you want that guy to be Quinn. admit it.that's a load of crap, otherwise you'd be in favor of him adding some more tools to his toolbox and taking us to the promised land. you do care who that guy is who takes us there and you want that guy to be Quinn. admit it.
The rest of your 'post' isn't worth the effort it would take to disentangle. No offense, but quotes work much better.
I'd be in favor of who adding more tools? Anderson or Quinn? Or both? Of course, whoever can add the tools and performs better game in and game out. Problem is, Anderson hasn't done that and has never been consistent.
He does the same things in the NFL he did in college. Should we give him a couple more years 'hoping' he'll finally 'get it'? Or do we move on to the next guy and try and figure out what we have before the draft next year?
You keep wanting to give DA credit for 07, then say 'it wasn't his fault in 08'. Same team. Same coaches. If you want to give him the glory, then he gets the shit with it. While, IMO, he was part of the problem in 2008, he also benefitted GREATLY from a cast playing what appears to have been above their level in 2007. When the team is down, Anderson goes and sucks right with them. Unlike a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he doesn't make the guys around him better; on the contrary, he needs the guys around him to make HIM better.
I vote for 'move on' and see what we've got in Quinn. If he's garbage, there's what looks like a lot of good QBs coming out in next years class. Personally, I'd LOVE to see Colt McCoy in a Browns uni.
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no problem here with anaylzing DA at all. hell, i do it too. it's the incessant name-calling of a Brownie and certainty he's already jumped the shark i take offense to.
i know he has faults but definitely saw improvement from '07 to '08, which gives me reason to believe he is still progressing. i'm really forgiving though, just look at my affinity for Edwards. lol if Quinn is ahead of him in his development now>>>all the better. i don't necessarily want either, i just want the best we can get. i even had fingers crossed for Cutler a couple months ago.
it's all about winning. Mangini, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
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I never said he wasn't a fan of the Browns.... I wanted to say that people who say "He wants to play for the Browns" as if it's the team he's dreamed of leading all his life, especially his college years, is a bunch of BS. By his actions over the years (for example, charging kids 75 bucks for autographs before even signing an NFL contract, or holding out on the team he "wants to play for"), it appears to me that Quinn wants fame, success and money far more than a "good fit". If he ends up playing for someone else at some point in time, my guess is that community will hear how much he loves it thousands of times too.
Quinn was purposely held out of the first camp as to not interfere with the competition between DA and Frye, which DA lost.
You always make this stupid shit up D&S
AdaM said:
Quinn was purposely held out of the first camp as to not interfere with the competition between DA and Frye, which DA lost.You always make this stupid shit up D&S
Seriously, you trying to say he didn't hold out on the Browns? Who's making shit up now? http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20114986"]http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20114986 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9619C8B63
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@jadbf said:
so you're saying if I have a similar injury and I don't have surgery, then I am not ensuring it will heal properly? and my doctor is failing and giving me bad advice??again what point exactly are you making? maybe the problem with people making the finger issue is because you try to make little flippant jokes and snide comments about it and refuse to acknowledge the fact that it WAS a serious injury.
because every time I refute your claims, you try to change your definition and use more vague terms to try and defend your undefendable position, because you just can't admit you might be wrong.
The fact that surgery was used as an option is a CLEAR SIGN that it was a serious injury. any way you try to diminish that fact is just silly.
omg. when this all began i quoted the posters in this thread and their excuses for Quinn's lack of success. "the finger" was one of them. out of a thousand words typed, that's the sentence you chose to zero in on. "a thousand posts nit-picking" is not my words, so i don't know what you're saying there. no one knows how serious it really was or how much it affected his game.
players have surgery for anything and everything, regardless of seriousness. it's a luxury they can afford. while i'll contend playing helped injure the finger further, as it was reported, a player having surgery in and of itself does not define the extent of it's severity. you must be absolutely bored.
i intended to refute Adam's contention that BQ never held out but thankfully there are now links. while Chud was installing his offense from the very beginning Quinn was a no-show...for two weeks. by the time he finally showed up he had missed so much he had no chance of challenging Frye or DA for the position. had he shown up, who knows?
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no problem here with anaylzing DA at all. hell, i do it too. it's the incessant name-calling of a Brownie and certainty he's already jumped the shark i take offense to.
i know he has faults but definitely saw improvement from '07 to '08, which gives me reason to believe he is still progressing. i'm really forgiving though, just look at my affinity for Edwards. lol if Quinn is ahead of him in his development now>>>all the better. i don't necessarily want either, i just want the best we can get. i even had fingers crossed for Cutler a couple months ago.
it's all about winning. Mangini, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
no problem here with anaylzing DA at all. hell, i do it too. it's the incessant name-calling of a Brownie and certainty he's already jumped the shark i take offense to.
i know he has faults but definitely saw improvement from '07 to '08, which gives me reason to believe he is still progressing. i'm really forgiving though, just look at my affinity for Edwards. lol if Quinn is ahead of him in his development now>>>all the better. i don't necessarily want either, i just want the best we can get. i even had fingers crossed for Cutler a couple months ago.
it's all about winning. Mangini, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Please, show us these 'improvements' from 07 to 08 in DA's game.
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watch the games. watch his near perfect play against the Giants, his poise vs the Colts, and his improvement on his short game. gotta run now, you'll have to find something else to do for the last 1.5 hrs of your shift.
happy hump day.
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