Shazier - NFL Problem?
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Classless garbage was deleted guys... I hope Z kicked him off...
What are we talking about?
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What are we talking about?
Someone did something inappropiate and the mods dealt with him.
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I said it several weeks ago in a different thread, but watching that play 100 times like we all did I don't see some idiot lunging. Sometimes, no matter how many times you practice it, you're just gonna tackle someone awkwardly or weird. Not that I played anywhere near elite level, but when I suffered a concussion playing it was on a play somewhat like this. I was going high as the guy was going low, but he shifted at the last second. I subconsciously really put my head more down and boom, counting to threeve on the sideline.
My point is there dirty plays that are intentional. Take Thomas Davis' hit on Adams for example, he lined that Sheet up and knew what he was doing. For Shazier though, he just lowered his head because the player dipped down a bit, at least IMO. If he had a habit of shooting out like a missile he'd be dead by now. Point is, heads up tackling isn't some new concept. Hell, we were practicing heads up tackling in bumShmuck NC when I started playing in 2004. I'm just not sure though how you're going to eliminate fluke plays like that. It seems a bit ridiculous to suspend a guy in this scenario.
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they won't penalize him cause it was a hit to the thigh.
they won't penalize him cause it was a hit to the thigh.
Clev, what I meant was, his paralysis is punishment. I don't mean to be mean in that way, but goddamn, life has a way of making its point, doesn't it? I put the guy on my prayer list, and I hope he is able to function as a healthy human being again. I think even if his doctor clears him to play, the NFL won't.
This has really made an impact on me. Horrible to watch. It is as bad as the Tatum hit on Stingley. Another OSU monster.
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I said it several weeks ago in a different thread, but watching that play 100 times like we all did I don't see some idiot lunging. Sometimes, no matter how many times you practice it, you're just gonna tackle someone awkwardly or weird. Not that I played anywhere near elite level, but when I suffered a concussion playing it was on a play somewhat like this. I was going high as the guy was going low, but he shifted at the last second. I subconsciously really put my head more down and boom, counting to threeve on the sideline.
My point is there dirty plays that are intentional. Take Thomas Davis' hit on Adams for example, he lined that Sheet up and knew what he was doing. For Shazier though, he just lowered his head because the player dipped down a bit, at least IMO. If he had a habit of shooting out like a missile he'd be dead by now. Point is, heads up tackling isn't some new concept. Hell, we were practicing heads up tackling in bumShmuck NC when I started playing in 2004. I'm just not sure though how you're going to eliminate fluke plays like that. It seems a bit ridiculous to suspend a guy in this scenario.
I said it several weeks ago in a different thread, but watching that play 100 times like we all did I don't see some idiot lunging. Sometimes, no matter how many times you practice it, you're just gonna tackle someone awkwardly or weird. Not that I played anywhere near elite level, but when I suffered a concussion playing it was on a play somewhat like this. I was going high as the guy was going low, but he shifted at the last second. I subconsciously really put my head more down and boom, counting to threeve on the sideline.
My point is there dirty plays that are intentional. Take Thomas Davis' hit on Adams for example, he lined that Sheet up and knew what he was doing. For Shazier though, he just lowered his head because the player dipped down a bit, at least IMO. If he had a habit of shooting out like a missile he'd be dead by now. Point is, heads up tackling isn't some new concept. Hell, we were practicing heads up tackling in bumShmuck NC when I started playing in 2004. I'm just not sure though how you're going to eliminate fluke plays like that. It seems a bit ridiculous to suspend a guy in this scenario.
Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
I said it several weeks ago in a different thread, but watching that play 100 times like we all did I don't see some idiot lunging. Sometimes, no matter how many times you practice it, you're just gonna tackle someone awkwardly or weird. Not that I played anywhere near elite level, but when I suffered a concussion playing it was on a play somewhat like this. I was going high as the guy was going low, but he shifted at the last second. I subconsciously really put my head more down and boom, counting to threeve on the sideline.
My point is there dirty plays that are intentional. Take Thomas Davis' hit on Adams for example, he lined that Sheet up and knew what he was doing. For Shazier though, he just lowered his head because the player dipped down a bit, at least IMO. If he had a habit of shooting out like a missile he'd be dead by now. Point is, heads up tackling isn't some new concept. Hell, we were practicing heads up tackling in bumShmuck NC when I started playing in 2004. I'm just not sure though how you're going to eliminate fluke plays like that. It seems a bit ridiculous to suspend a guy in this scenario.
Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
Show me, in candid detail, that he isn't the overwhelmingly majority of the time a form tackler. You are not providing anything that his programming is bezerk other than just saying it out loud. I asked Cleve the same question and never got a response. To the best of my knowledge he's never suffered a concussion in his career. Do you really think if he was some idiot tackling with his head down he wouldn't have had at least 1 concussion? do you really think he's that lucky?
Do better, seriously. It was a gnarly play but Shazier has no incentive to tackle like that unless it was a fluke bad angle play. That Sheet happens every week, and is almost impossible to stop. Anyone who has played any level of football can tell you that. I guarantee you his whole life he's been taught to tackle normally, but fluke plays with players going 1000 miles an hour are just going to happen.
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Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
Show me, in candid detail, that he isn't the overwhelmingly majority of the time a form tackler. You are not providing anything that his programming is bezerk other than just saying it out loud. I asked Cleve the same question and never got a response. To the best of my knowledge he's never suffered a concussion in his career. Do you really think if he was some idiot tackling with his head down he wouldn't have had at least 1 concussion? do you really think he's that lucky?
Do better, seriously. It was a gnarly play but Shazier has no incentive to tackle like that unless it was a fluke bad angle play. That Sheet happens every week, and is almost impossible to stop. Anyone who has played any level of football can tell you that. I guarantee you his whole life he's been taught to tackle normally, but fluke plays with players going 1000 miles an hour are just going to happen.
Show me, in candid detail, that he isn't the overwhelmingly majority of the time a form tackler. You are not providing anything that his programming is bezerk other than just saying it out loud. I asked Cleve the same question and never got a response. To the best of my knowledge he's never suffered a concussion in his career. Do you really think if he was some idiot tackling with his head down he wouldn't have had at least 1 concussion? do you really think he's that lucky?
Do better, seriously. It was a gnarly play but Shazier has no incentive to tackle like that unless it was a fluke bad angle play. That Sheet happens every week, and is almost impossible to stop. Anyone who has played any level of football can tell you that. I guarantee you his whole life he's been taught to tackle normally, but fluke plays with players going 1000 miles an hour are just going to happen.
Your position is nonsensical. There are no statistics for such things. Leading with one's head does not have any relation to concussions. How did ALi take so much punishment but never suffer a concussion, yet Floyd patterson suffer one every time his opponent farted?
I don't see Myles Garret leading with his head. I don't see Clay Matthey getting called for these kinds of hits.
Shazier is programmed to employ technique that goes against common sense. 99% of people would have made a body tackle and recognized the opportunity to strip the ball. Shazier was nothing more than a raging bull, irritated to the point of wantign to break something when the stall gate opened. He did this to himself. Using his helmet on that tackle was MONDO BIZARRO.......................... totally out of normal human behavior.
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I just watched the hit that injured Ryan Shazier. AMid talk of how the NFL has become so dangerous, I have to shake my head and ask WTF was Shazier thinking? Other than to hurt the receiver there was no reason to lower his head. I replayed the video 20 times if I watched it once and again WTF was this guy thinking? Who tackles like that? The way the other guys body was turned, Shazier was going to hit a brick wall and make absolutely no penetration on this guy.
Man, I am sorry for Shazier's bad fortune, but fukc. he did this to himself. Completely, 100% self inflicted.
He learned that move from the best- Headhunter Harrison, who almost always did that stuff- until they made it illegal. Remember the game where he knocked Josh Cribbs and Colt McCoy out of the game? Hope Shazier will be OK, I wouldn't want permanent injury to anyone.
He learned that move from the best- Headhunter Harrison, who almost always did that stuff- until they made it illegal. Remember the game where he knocked Josh Cribbs and Colt McCoy out of the game? Hope Shazier will be OK, I wouldn't want permanent injury to anyone.
Harrison stopped hitting like that before Shazier was drafted.. Shazier brought his technique to the Steelers from Ohio State. If you look at his college highlights on YouTube, which I have, you will see plays where he led with the helmet.
He hit the bungle player on the outside upper thigh/ hip. Absolute worst place imo. That area of the body in not gonna give so easily.
Btw...Harrison knocked out Cribbs, and Mo Massaquoi in the same game. He knocked out McCoy in another game.
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I've watched the clips too. Guess I'm not seeing what others have.
When the ball is caught with the receiver's feet off the ground, he is already launching himself for a waist-high tackle and his arms are starting to be extended to wrap around him and tackle him. Only, he's too far away and the receiver doesn't push forward after coming to the ground.
To me, he's trying to tackle someone - not just hit them, as most players are taught/coached. HIs mistake is that he's leading with his head - he doesn't move it to the side for the waist-high tackle.
Leading with the head has been coached for at least a decade. Hitting - instead of tackling - is also the "modern" coaching technique. They teach these guys to just create a bigger impact - not to tackle them.
Peppers hits this way. He launches himself like a missile and leads with his head - like a missile. Never see him even move his arms so that he could actually tackle someone. His whole purpose is to just hit them with as much force as he can and create a bigger impact.
If coaches actually went back to teaching tackling instead of hitting, I think we'd see a lot less injuries.
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I said it several weeks ago in a different thread, but watching that play 100 times like we all did I don't see some idiot lunging. Sometimes, no matter how many times you practice it, you're just gonna tackle someone awkwardly or weird. Not that I played anywhere near elite level, but when I suffered a concussion playing it was on a play somewhat like this. I was going high as the guy was going low, but he shifted at the last second. I subconsciously really put my head more down and boom, counting to threeve on the sideline.
My point is there dirty plays that are intentional. Take Thomas Davis' hit on Adams for example, he lined that Sheet up and knew what he was doing. For Shazier though, he just lowered his head because the player dipped down a bit, at least IMO. If he had a habit of shooting out like a missile he'd be dead by now. Point is, heads up tackling isn't some new concept. Hell, we were practicing heads up tackling in bumShmuck NC when I started playing in 2004. I'm just not sure though how you're going to eliminate fluke plays like that. It seems a bit ridiculous to suspend a guy in this scenario.
Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
A lot of the responsibility should be on ESPN. They are the ones that glorified the big hit instead of correct tackling.
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Dude, I disagree. Lowering your head in that situation is not a normal reaction. I am not saying he was intentionally trying to hurt the receiver, but what I am saying is, he has been programmed not to tackle normally. His programming is berzerk. His programming is backwards. The vast majority of defenders would have made an arm/chest tackle, and the good ones, made an attempt to strip the ball on the way down.
The geometry of that play was IDEAL for an arm tackel and attempt at a ball strip. What Shazier did was against common sense and good football practice. It was instinctive only to Shazier. A thinking player would have made the spilt microsecond decision to make a chest to body hit and try to strip the ball. Shaziers programming is fukced up. Sorry, but I am with Hoorta on this, this schidt has got to be completely removed from the NFL. It is cancer.
A lot of the responsibility should be on ESPN. They are the ones that glorified the big hit instead of correct tackling.
A lot of the responsibility should be on ESPN. They are the ones that glorified the big hit instead of correct tackling.
So years ago ,when I still lived in NE Ohio ,my son and I decided to go watch a high school playoff game at the old Rubber bowl...What we saw horrified us...These kids! were seriously trying to hurt each other!!! Highlight hits all night long! I remember thinking if I had a child young enough to play highschool football , I would not let them play, if this is what they're coaching them to do now .
And I recall feeling the same way Doug...This is all being glorified by ESPN
I can say that I still go watch high school games on Friday nights , and here in Texas, I see very little head hunting...Very little "Highlight Reel Hits" ,So I do see hope for the future.
I've thought for years what needs to happen is , helmet makers need to manufacture helmets with a dye pack in the crown of the helmet...If you break the dye pack it shows immediately...you're ejected from the game and automatically suspended for one game.
At the highschool level just having to buy a new helmet would be enough of a deterrent, that coaching would seriously enforce "No leading with your head" and "Keep your head up"
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The situation sucks for shazier but it's likely to be a serious catalyst for changes in the NFL
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
A lot of the responsibility should be on ESPN. They are the ones that glorified the big hit instead of correct tackling.
So years ago ,when I still lived in NE Ohio ,my son and I decided to go watch a high school playoff game at the old Rubber bowl...What we saw horrified us...These kids! were seriously trying to hurt each other!!! Highlight hits all night long! I remember thinking if I had a child young enough to play highschool football , I would not let them play, if this is what they're coaching them to do now .
And I recall feeling the same way Doug...This is all being glorified by ESPN
I can say that I still go watch high school games on Friday nights , and here in Texas, I see very little head hunting...Very little "Highlight Reel Hits" ,So I do see hope for the future.
I've thought for years what needs to happen is , helmet makers need to manufacture helmets with a dye pack in the crown of the helmet...If you break the dye pack it shows immediately...you're ejected from the game and automatically suspended for one game.
At the highschool level just having to buy a new helmet would be enough of a deterrent, that coaching would seriously enforce "No leading with your head" and "Keep your head up"
I've thought for years what needs to happen is , helmet makers need to manufacture helmets with a dye pack in the crown of the helmet...If you break the dye pack it shows immediately...you're ejected from the game and automatically suspended for one game.
At the highschool level just having to buy a new helmet would be enough of a deterrent, that coaching would seriously enforce "No leading with your head" and "Keep your head up"
Nice idea, but there could be many times where the dye pack would break accidentaly, wouldn't it? I mean in piles or when rolling after a fall or whatever.
Maybe if they had a pressure sensor that would send a signal (visual or to another device in the bench area or to the referee) if it reached certain measure it could be more precise, though I don't know its viability both logistically and economically.
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The situation sucks for shazier but it's likely to be a serious catalyst for changes in the NFL
The situation sucks for shazier but it's likely to be a serious catalyst for changes in the NFL
Not at all. Lip service is what we will get, and idiot rules that continue to ruin the game. Really, the NFL is destroying itself. I never came onboard for politics, vulgar players, bad behavior and the media glorifying players to rock star status. Fukc the NFL. Seriously, Fukc it.
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The situation sucks for shazier but it's likely to be a serious catalyst for changes in the NFL
The situation sucks for shazier but it's likely to be a serious catalyst for changes in the NFL
Not sure what they can change. I think they have done all they can with the rules....and I think they are trying to teach these guys not to tackle by spearing.....but, as I said, sometimes the instincts just take over, and they lead with their heads. Hopefully a lot of that ingrained instinct will be squeezed out of players with intense instruction....but it may never completely be eliminated.
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I sent YouTube videos to a Steeler fan buddy of mine. (search Shazier hits)
There are NUMEROUS hits with the crown of his helmet.
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He learned that move from the best- Headhunter Harrison, who almost always did that stuff- until they made it illegal. Remember the game where he knocked Josh Cribbs and Colt McCoy out of the game? Hope Shazier will be OK, I wouldn't want permanent injury to anyone.
Harrison stopped hitting like that before Shazier was drafted.. Shazier brought his technique to the Steelers from Ohio State. If you look at his college highlights on YouTube, which I have, you will see plays where he led with the helmet.
He hit the bungle player on the outside upper thigh/ hip. Absolute worst place imo. That area of the body in not gonna give so easily.
Btw...Harrison knocked out Cribbs, and Mo Massaquoi in the same game. He knocked out McCoy in another game.
Harrison stopped hitting like that before Shazier was drafted.. Shazier brought his technique to the Steelers from Ohio State. If you look at his college highlights on YouTube, which I have, you will see plays where he led with the helmet.
He hit the bungle player on the outside upper thigh/ hip. Absolute worst place imo. That area of the body in not gonna give so easily.
Btw...Harrison knocked out Cribbs, and Mo Massaquoi in the same game. He knocked out McCoy in another game.
Well said. And remember, I like Shazier, all I am saying is that there is just something not natural about leading with the head. If these guys had no helmets, you think they would still lead with their head?
Regarding Cribbs getting KO'd, this is the food for my tag line.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
I've watched the clips too. Guess I'm not seeing what others have.
When the ball is caught with the receiver's feet off the ground, he is already launching himself for a waist-high tackle and his arms are starting to be extended to wrap around him and tackle him. Only, he's too far away and the receiver doesn't push forward after coming to the ground.
To me, he's trying to tackle someone - not just hit them, as most players are taught/coached. HIs mistake is that he's leading with his head - he doesn't move it to the side for the waist-high tackle.
Leading with the head has been coached for at least a decade. Hitting - instead of tackling - is also the "modern" coaching technique. They teach these guys to just create a bigger impact - not to tackle them.
Peppers hits this way. He launches himself like a missile and leads with his head - like a missile. Never see him even move his arms so that he could actually tackle someone. His whole purpose is to just hit them with as much force as he can and create a bigger impact.
If coaches actually went back to teaching tackling instead of hitting, I think we'd see a lot less injuries.
I've watched the clips too. Guess I'm not seeing what others have.
When the ball is caught with the receiver's feet off the ground, he is already launching himself for a waist-high tackle and his arms are starting to be extended to wrap around him and tackle him. Only, he's too far away and the receiver doesn't push forward after coming to the ground.
To me, he's trying to tackle someone - not just hit them, as most players are taught/coached. HIs mistake is that he's leading with his head - he doesn't move it to the side for the waist-high tackle.
Leading with the head has been coached for at least a decade. Hitting - instead of tackling - is also the "modern" coaching technique. They teach these guys to just create a bigger impact - not to tackle them.
Peppers hits this way. He launches himself like a missile and leads with his head - like a missile. Never see him even move his arms so that he could actually tackle someone. His whole purpose is to just hit them with as much force as he can and create a bigger impact.
If coaches actually went back to teaching tackling instead of hitting, I think we'd see a lot less injuries.
Well said.
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Harrison stopped hitting like that before Shazier was drafted.. Shazier brought his technique to the Steelers from Ohio State. If you look at his college highlights on YouTube, which I have, you will see plays where he led with the helmet.
He hit the bungle player on the outside upper thigh/ hip. Absolute worst place imo. That area of the body in not gonna give so easily.
Btw...Harrison knocked out Cribbs, and Mo Massaquoi in the same game. He knocked out McCoy in another game.
Well said. And remember, I like Shazier, all I am saying is that there is just something not natural about leading with the head. If these guys had no helmets, you think they would still lead with their head?
Regarding Cribbs getting KO'd, this is the food for my tag line.
Well said. And remember, I like Shazier, all I am saying is that there is just something not natural about leading with the head. If these guys had no helmets, you think they would still lead with their head?
Regarding Cribbs getting KO'd, this is the food for my tag line.
Agree 100%
Speaking of no helmets. The helmetless fools who play this game hit with their shoulders.
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