Who's #1?
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each QB has his own strengths and weaknesses. The problem is I don't think Hue "the QB guru" is capable of coaching anyone out of those weaknesses. Rosen seemed like the most NFL-ready but has major injury concerns and i don't think he will last long here (one nice thing about Kizer, he can at least take a hit). Of all these QBs, I like Mayfield and would not mind at all using the #1 pick on him, but I think he will be available at #4 which still begs the question; who to use the #1 on? Glaring holes would be the WR corps and the secondary on defense, but do the Browns burn a #1 pick on one of those positions? Do they continue THE PROCESS and trade down to amass more picks? Tough decisions coming up. I'd be worried about using the #1 on Allen which seems to be the latest gossip, but if he doesn't have to start right away it might not be so bad. I really wish the Browns were capable of coaching people up but for many of the "top picks" we have had it seems like when they join this team they forget how to play football.
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Here's how I see things, put simply.
Rosen is clearly the best prospect, and really it's not even close. Barring the concussion issues being serious (which they could be), there's not much from a talent perspective to hate on. It's clear for anyone who doesn't have their head in their butt *coughCALcough* that the personality stuff is clearly overblown. He also has never once said he won't play for Cleveland, but maybe that ends up being true.
Darnold comes in 2nd, but it's distant from Rosen. The turnovers are scary to say the least, but man that arm talent is strong. Inbetween turnovers against OSU Darnold was throwing footballs Kizer could only dream of throwing. He's going to be a top 10 guy, but the turnover bug is scary and makes you wonder, strongly, if he can overcome it.
We know enough about Mayfield, but the dude with the most intrigue after that is Lamar Jackson. I'm not saying I'm for or against him, but it's going to be a serious question of "what would Lamar have done on a team like Alabama or Clemson?" type of argument for him. It's plain to see that Lamar had to be the be all, end all playmaker for Louisville. He suffered countless drops and other bad play by his teammates and preformed at Heisman level despite that. With the success of Watson last year, I'd bet strongly he goes top 15. Could he be the guy at 4 for Cleveland?
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each QB has his own strengths and weaknesses. The problem is I don't think Hue "the QB guru" is capable of coaching anyone out of those weaknesses. Rosen seemed like the most NFL-ready but has major injury concerns and i don't think he will last long here (one nice thing about Kizer, he can at least take a hit). Of all these QBs, I like Mayfield and would not mind at all using the #1 pick on him, but I think he will be available at #4 which still begs the question; who to use the #1 on? Glaring holes would be the WR corps and the secondary on defense, but do the Browns burn a #1 pick on one of those positions? Do they continue THE PROCESS and trade down to amass more picks? Tough decisions coming up. I'd be worried about using the #1 on Allen which seems to be the latest gossip, but if he doesn't have to start right away it might not be so bad. I really wish the Browns were capable of coaching people up but for many of the "top picks" we have had it seems like when they join this team they forget how to play football.
each QB has his own strengths and weaknesses. The problem is I don't think Hue "the QB guru" is capable of coaching anyone out of those weaknesses. Rosen seemed like the most NFL-ready but has major injury concerns and i don't think he will last long here (one nice thing about Kizer, he can at least take a hit). Of all these QBs, I like Mayfield and would not mind at all using the #1 pick on him, but I think he will be available at #4 which still begs the question; who to use the #1 on? Glaring holes would be the WR corps and the secondary on defense, but do the Browns burn a #1 pick on one of those positions? Do they continue THE PROCESS and trade down to amass more picks? Tough decisions coming up. I'd be worried about using the #1 on Allen which seems to be the latest gossip, but if he doesn't have to start right away it might not be so bad. I really wish the Browns were capable of coaching people up but for many of the "top picks" we have had it seems like when they join this team they forget how to play football.
I've been thinking the same thing. Let's look at the draft order. I have no problems flipping picks with the Giants- assuming Rosen is their guy and he doesn't want to come to Cleveland. The X factor is the Colts- who don't need a qb, and might be willing to trade down for the right price. They have plenty of holes on their team too.
Our departed draft scenario dreamer Shep might have cooked this one up. We flip picks with the Giants, moving from #1 to #2, gaining their third round pick. Then we trade up with the Colts (they move from #3 down to #4), giving them the pick we got from the Giants. So we're sitting at #2 and #3. Get the QB the Giants don't take and anyone else we have a fancy for.
I just don't think we're going to sit @ #4 hoping no one under us- won't do a sell the ranch deal to get the Colts pick, and we're left holding the bag again in the QB derby. Realistically, only the qb needy Broncos & Jets are in a position to move up- Arizona is so far down they'd have to give up too much to move from #15 to #3. (I'd LOVE to see Mayfield fall to #4, but I sure wouldn't count on it.) Last year no one (except Ghoolie with his crystal ball) thought Trubisky was going to get picked #2.
Other issue is- I don't see anyone other than qb at this point that's worth the #1 overall.
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@boo-fagley said:
The difference between 56% and 70% is...
... being picked Day One vs. Day Three.
I'm still seeing Rosen and then the rest... a/k/a "the field". But my serious work is still to come.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If you just go by various passing stats while in college...then these are your boys:
Completion pcts:
Mayfield 70.5
Jake Browning 68.5
Luke Falk 66.9
Rating:
Mayfield: 198
Mason Rudolph 170
Drew Lock 165 (I rounded the numbers)
Yards per attempt:
Mayfield: 11.5
Rudolph 10.2
Lock 9.5
Total passing yards:
Rudolph 4904
Mayfield 4627
Riley Ferguson 4257
TD passes:
Lock: 44
Mayfield: 43
Ferguson: 38
Here is a good question: Riley Ferguson plays for Memphis. Is he a better pro prospect than Paxton Lynch was? Or is Memphis like a Big 12 team...there offensive system is the key to all the big numbers...that and the piss poor defensed they play?
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Yeah!! Calendar dates....plan your football junkie days off (or close?).. https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/1/3/16843444/when-is-the-draft-when-is-free-agency-2018-nfl-calendar-regular-season-week-1
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I don't understand the allure of Allen, I really don't. His numbers are truly awful. I don't care how big he is. Pass.
It's more bad luck for us. No clear cut #1 option at QB, and this is why I firmly believe we're betting the farm on getting an experienced veteran.
I don't understand the allure of Allen, I really don't. His numbers are truly awful. I don't care how big he is. Pass.
It's more bad luck for us. No clear cut #1 option at QB, and this is why I firmly believe we're betting the farm on getting an experienced veteran.
This +100,000,000 Lots of teams can afford one of these scratch off lottery tickets, I think its apparent we cannot. I would think that from the perspective of both the owner and most fans we need to win immediately or risk complete implosion next year. Hell its close to that now. I see us far more likely pursuing Cousins with Alex Smith as the drop back position. I see us taking Saquon Barkley and maybe Fitzpatrick (perhaps Derwin James) in the 1st round. I see us taking one of the aforementioned QB's in the 2nd round when they fall to us to develop behind our vet along with Kizer. We will be very active in FA adding another WR weapon and LB's. The balance of the draft we take best pick available. This to me is the only sensible way to catapult this team to immediate contention. I think this is very in line with how Dorsey worked magic in KC as well.
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If you just go by various passing stats while in college...then these are your boys:
Completion pcts:
Mayfield 70.5
Jake Browning 68.5
Luke Falk 66.9
Rating:
Mayfield: 198
Mason Rudolph 170
Drew Lock 165 (I rounded the numbers)
Yards per attempt:
Mayfield: 11.5
Rudolph 10.2
Lock 9.5
Total passing yards:
Rudolph 4904
Mayfield 4627
Riley Ferguson 4257
TD passes:
Lock: 44
Mayfield: 43
Ferguson: 38
Here is a good question: Riley Ferguson plays for Memphis. Is he a better pro prospect than Paxton Lynch was? Or is Memphis like a Big 12 team...there offensive system is the key to all the big numbers...that and the piss poor defensed they play?
Here is a good question: Riley Ferguson plays for Memphis. Is he a better pro prospect than Paxton Lynch was? Or is Memphis like a Big 12 team...there offensive system is the key to all the big numbers...that and the piss poor defensed they play?
Gip, am Not sure what Memphis QB coaches teach? Watched Riley Ferguson in HS up the road from Matthews,NC. Seem Riley has that same long weird whine up as Paxton & sometimes brings the ball down to bad areas in or out of pocket..Did ya watch Riley's match up against Rosen? good shoot out (once u pass Memphis dizzy unies
)
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Rosen. No Mayfield.
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Number 1 is.........................................................Rosen to the Giants as we trade down and then select Saquan Barkley with the Giants pick. Fitzpatrick with the next pick and grab the QB who slides (likely either Allen or Baker) in the 2nd (or a trade up into bottom of the 1st)
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each QB has his own strengths and weaknesses. The problem is I don't think Hue "the QB guru" is capable of coaching anyone out of those weaknesses. Rosen seemed like the most NFL-ready but has major injury concerns and i don't think he will last long here (one nice thing about Kizer, he can at least take a hit). Of all these QBs, I like Mayfield and would not mind at all using the #1 pick on him, but I think he will be available at #4 which still begs the question; who to use the #1 on? Glaring holes would be the WR corps and the secondary on defense, but do the Browns burn a #1 pick on one of those positions? Do they continue THE PROCESS and trade down to amass more picks? Tough decisions coming up. I'd be worried about using the #1 on Allen which seems to be the latest gossip, but if he doesn't have to start right away it might not be so bad. I really wish the Browns were capable of coaching people up but for many of the "top picks" we have had it seems like when they join this team they forget how to play football.
I've been thinking the same thing. Let's look at the draft order. I have no problems flipping picks with the Giants- assuming Rosen is their guy and he doesn't want to come to Cleveland. The X factor is the Colts- who don't need a qb, and might be willing to trade down for the right price. They have plenty of holes on their team too.
Our departed draft scenario dreamer Shep might have cooked this one up. We flip picks with the Giants, moving from #1 to #2, gaining their third round pick. Then we trade up with the Colts (they move from #3 down to #4), giving them the pick we got from the Giants. So we're sitting at #2 and #3. Get the QB the Giants don't take and anyone else we have a fancy for.
I just don't think we're going to sit @ #4 hoping no one under us- won't do a sell the ranch deal to get the Colts pick, and we're left holding the bag again in the QB derby. Realistically, only the qb needy Broncos & Jets are in a position to move up- Arizona is so far down they'd have to give up too much to move from #15 to #3. (I'd LOVE to see Mayfield fall to #4, but I sure wouldn't count on it.) Last year no one (except Ghoolie with his crystal ball) thought Trubisky was going to get picked #2.
Other issue is- I don't see anyone other than qb at this point that's worth the #1 overall.
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@boo-fagley said:
Allen is the right call and Dorsey is rumored to love him. Could all be BS though. Darnold might not come out so the prospects are dwindling if true.
Hey Boo, did you actually read what was in that link? Hardly flattering to Allen, and a damn good reason IMHO to not taking the chance on him.
"and lower than a 57% completion rate, the 6-foot-5, 220-pounder is rubbing shoulders with the likes of NFL whiffs Christian Hackenberg, Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Joey Harrington and Tom Savage"
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@boo-fagley said:
The combine is still to come.
Dont put your mock draft in ink just yet.
QBs throwing against no pressure while wearing shorts and throwing to uncovered WRs is going to prove Allen's worth?
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It's a team game. Just ridiculous to lay a completion percentage rate on whether or not to
draft a qb. It's tough to find the right guy.
Stats are bogus as the only source of picking.
Great players who play with smaller colleges won't rank on stats as much as mediocre players
with great teams around them, and dominant in their conference.
http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html
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consider these scouting reports on a sure to be a bust college qb:
“I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn’t have great ability to change the release of the football. He’s mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better.”
And another:
“The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They’re too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don’t know if they become good pro players. I think ************* is in that same mold.”
And the best all.
“I don’t like him. He’s a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don’t think he’s as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year.”
*************************************
Know who that qb was at the time? Anybody?
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/aaron-rodgers-2005-nfl-draft-scouting-reports
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It's a team game. Just ridiculous to lay a completion percentage rate on whether or not to
draft a qb. It's tough to find the right guy.
Stats are bogus as the only source of picking.
Great players who play with smaller colleges won't rank on stats as much as mediocre players
with great teams around them, and dominant in their conference.
http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html
It's a team game. Just ridiculous to lay a completion percentage rate on whether or not to
draft a qb. It's tough to find the right guy.
Stats are bogus as the only source of picking.
Great players who play with smaller colleges won't rank on stats as much as mediocre players
with great teams around them, and dominant in their conference.
http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html
Carson Wentz completed 64% of his passes at North Dakota State. Joe Flacco completed 63% of his passes at Delaware.
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@boo-fagley said:
You cant teach size, arm strength, quickness, throwing accurate on the run, maturity and confidence.
You can teach better decision making, film study, patience and team work.
That is absolutely true.
But I wouldn't use the #1 or #4 overall pick on a QB who is as much of a project as Josh Allen.
Jesus, we literally JUST DID THIS with Kizer.
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Kizer was benched in college. bad sign. doesn't see things on the field. slow processing.
that was covered up mostly by the offense they run. not pro style.
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